Here are a couple of pictures I just took. Now that I have a third rack for the silverware, would not go back to using a basket again. It makes it so much more convenient to unload and I no longer need to worry about pieces getting stuck together.

Would like to echo BoschBoy's comments about the third rack. DH used to make fun of it, saying it really brought out my OCDness. BUT, once he started unloading the new DW, he, too, came to appreciate the third rack. As someone said on another thread, it does take a tiny bit longer to load, but it's so much faster for putting things away, since they are already sorted.

The rack below adjusts, and the top/third rack can be removed, so there is plenty of room if you need to run a load of unusual sized or shaped items.

question for boschboy or others with a third rack -

what happens if I just toss the silverware in there instead of lining it up all neatly?

where you you put a wine glass? Will it still fit on the top rack with the third rack in?

Cottonpenny: I had the 3rd rack in my miele, and at times just tossed the cutlery in willy nilly and it all came out clean.

I loved the 3rd rack and thought I couldn't live without as well. Now stepping down I don't miss it AS MUCH as I thought. Still a nice feature to have tho.

About the wine glasses. In our SHE7 model, we had to lower the middle rack to fit in wine glasses. That still left plenty of room for plates in the bottom rack. So we just leave it in that lowered position 99% of the time.

I've only had to make an adjustment when I needed to run the grease-catchers from the downdraft in the DW. They are taller than plates, so I raised the middle rack. Afterwards, it was easy to move it back down again.

I just don't know why this is such a difficult decision! The Bosch sounds like a great DW except for the many complaints I read about loading dishes, yet then I look at the photos seen here and think why am I worrying?

I have a KA now and it has been awful since day 1, so I really am reluctant to try again, but I just don't know about the Bosch. I have Fiestaware and some of the pieces are awkward to load in my current DW.

The third rack is intriguing, but kind of OCD for me. Ugh. I want to be prepared because I expect my current DW to crap out at any minute. Thanks for the help!

Trying to imagine placing/arranging each individual knife/fork/spoon in that top tray.....then unloading the same way. Looks pretty but I don't see the benefit. Only see additional tedium.

My machines have always had vertical-compartment buckets for utensils. I toss 'em in there willy-nilly and when the cycle's done, I lift the whole bucket out and over to the utensil drawer and put them away.

Alex, thanks for the pics, they are a big help. If the Bosch cleaned well with loads like that, it is the DW for me! I will look for a model with the cutlery basket, as I think the third rack will make me even crazier than I already am, which is pretty crazy.

I don't have the third rack, and don't miss it (although acknowledge I don't know what I'm missing!). I actually like the basket... it has individual slots, and I like picking it up and taking it to my cutlery drawer for unloading. i also like the extra space for my top rack; I can stick my Kitchenaid mixer bowl up there no problem.

Note that some US Bosch dishwashers now have "Americanized" racks with the cutlery basket along the right side of the basket - like most US dishwashers

Some higher-end Bosch dishwashers have a cutlery basket that is cleverly designed so it can be placed anywhere on the lower rack. Center, left, right, front, back - just drop it or slide it wherever you want it.

Don't get what's "American" about the cutlery basket being on the side. My old Maytag had it in the top center (on that machine, the lower rack was configured to hold glasses; large plates went on top). KitchenAid had a long basket that stretched across the front of the lower rack, and was centered. Whirlpool often uses a door-mounted basket, which I never understood.

I don't have a Bosch DW, but two Miele's -- the top cutlery racks are quite nice and you can place an amazing amount of flatware on them.
I had a KA DW w/long basket, and it worked well, but have adjusted to the rack system. I don't mind taking the time to align the flatware on the rack, and it does make it easier to unload.

Perhaps you should go to a showroom with some of your items, including the fiestaware and test load them into the DW to see if it fits your needs. Many people do so, as part of the evaluation before spending a great deal of money. Good luck!

Don't get what's "American" about the cutlery basket being on the side.

Traditionally, most modern American dishwashers have one large (back to front) cutlery basket along the right side of the lower rack. GE, Frigidaire, Maytag... they all have this set-up. European dishwashers usually have a more rectangular basket somewhere in the front section of the lower basket. The Bosch posted by Co-Co has what I call the Americanized racks: one (actually two) baskets along the right side of the lower rack.

Your Maytag was a reverse-rack unit. A true collector's piece today.

Some higher-end Bosch dishwashers have a cutlery basket that is cleverly designed so it can be placed anywhere on the lower rack. Center, left, right, front, back - just drop it or slide it wherever you want it.

We had this basket and it was my fav feature. It even fits perfectly in the upper rack in between the tines!

Here're some more pic I took way back. I got some Miele detergent and wanted to see how well it performs. :)

Alex

The Bosch posted by Co-Co has what I call the Americanized racks: one (actually two) baskets along the right side of the lower rack.

But I think that's the same basket that slides between the tines. It's made of two 1x4 section pieces that can be joined together on the long or short sides to make a either a single 2x4 basket that can be placed anywhere on the rack, or a 1x8 basket (what you're calling American style) that fits along the right side (or maybe elsewhere - I don't have one in front of me). When making a 2x4 basket, the tall sides of the baskets seen in the picture are joined, so it feels like one thick handle rather than two.

Your Maytag was a reverse-rack unit. A true collector's piece today.

They were made well into the '90s IIRC - I had one from the last generation they made, which added a food grinder that earlier models didn't have. I don't know why that layout isn't the norm - it makes more sense to have larger, heavier items on top where you don't have to bend down to reach them (I have a problem back, I notice these things), and having glasses on the bottom rack meant their insides got clean dispite the lack of a central washarm (which steals about 2" of rack height from most modern dishwashers). Like old Hobart-era KitchenAid DWs, they had a porcelain tub, and also like old Kitchenaids, they were built like tanks. But it also was loaded with serious design flaws that only became apparent after years of ownership.

The last real Maytag/Jenn-Air dishwashers (pre-Whirlpool buyout) offered a 3-rack design that again was opposite the industry norm - the third rack for cutlery was on the bottom. The center and top racks were both adjustable on high-end models, and the upper and center racks were both terraced (higher on right than left for the center rack, the opposite for the top rack). That left enough height for saucepans on the right side of the lower rack, and the opposite tilts of the top two racks meant you could put dinner plates on both racks at the same time. The top two racks were also brilliantly designed to hold either glasses or plates. My favorite setup with these was to raise the center rack and lower the top rack, which again allowed large plates to fit the right side of the top rack, with glasses on the rack below.

I have a Bosch AND Fiestware...no issues and the cleaning is awesome. I have the SHX58E15UC. Love it. It replaced a brand new KA KUDE60FXSS which vented in to my cabinetry. I haven't looked back...love this machine.

Here is a link that might be useful: KA vs. Bosch vs. Miele

I have remarked on the boneheadedness of the KA (and other Whirlpool brands) vent design ad nausium in other threads, but my remarks go unheeded, and people keep buying the KA machines and raving about them until a few years later when the underside of their countertop (older models with vent on top) or the cabinetry on the left (newer models) starts to soften and disintegrate from the hot, humid air oozing out from the vent location. Or maybe they haven't had those problems yet, but can't stand the clickety-clack sounds the machine suddenly makes several hours after the machine is supposedly done with its work (the owners manual insists this is normal, but you'll never hear a Bosch make those noises). And of course there are those awful KA generic owner's manuals that leave it to you to figure out which of 13 different models the features it describe actually apply to the machine you bought. There's a reason the front page makes no mention of model numbers.

Amen Lee...nobody here who had similar models claim they have issues. Great for them. But if you saw my previous posts, along with pictures...it is NOT normal. Bad design. And KA agreed that it is INDEED a vent, not an air intake or a vent that stays closed 4 hours. And the repair techs from my well-respected appliance dealer in Westfield, NJ also agreed that it is an issue, and is coming to light. Unfortunately, when I purchased the machine, the model was too new to have any real reviews of the issue.

I am relieved I caught it early, my cabinet along side where the vent was has returned to normal, and I am extremely happy with the Bosch. That being said, the KA was extremely quiet, and held a lot. It cleaned very well too...but not enough to risk the very expensive cabinetry I had installed on either side of it.

Just to clarify, the clickity-clack sounds I referred to in my previous post is from the "active vent" door opening 4 hours after the dry cycle ends. This was KA's attempt to reduce the problem from earlier machines that oozed hot, moint steam onto your countertop underside during the dry cycle, before they added the active vent that stays closed for a few hours. The owner's manual (i'll link to it when I have more time to search for them) says "your dishwasher may be equipped with an active vent that closes 4 hours after the machine is done drying" (the generic manual doesn't know which model you have, you may have one of the cheap ones that still dumps steam immediately). This, it assures you, is "normal". If you don't think random clicking sounds four hours after your $1000+ dishwasher is done with its work is normal, you may want to consider a Bosch, or GE, or LG, or Samsung, or several other brands that don't have this problem.

whirlpool trainee and lee... Yes, my basket is configurable. I've gotten used to loading it with it vertical along the right side, but it can also become a more square shape and/or be placed anywhere in the bottom rack (or taken out altogether).

OP: I adore my D/W, and would buy another in a heartbeat. I almost love it as much as my induction stove (whoa!).

Don't want to drift the thread but here's the link I referred to earlier for KA dishwashers. Note (a) the lack of any model # ID on the cover page, and (b) and on page 7, the warning "NOTE: your dishwasher has one of the vent systems shown below", along with an explanation that clicking noises hours after the dry cycle are "normal". This manual is a few years old; now they have a third design as well with the vent along the left edge instead of the top edge.

Bosch dishwashers I've seen all have manuals that describe only the one model series the customer buys, not wasting the owner's time figuring out which sections of the manual actually apply to the machine s/he owns.

BTW, I think most Bosch racks suit American plates, cups, and glasses just fine. Mine did. There are a few rack designs they've used where the tines are too closely spaced together, or didn't have enough tines in some places, but they've been mostly phased out years ago.

Fivefootzero, thanks for your response. Knowing your fiestaware fits well is a huge help. We have plans to take some dishes in to the appliance store this weekend and check out the Bosch 500 SHX55R5, the 300 SHX43R5, and the SHX3AR7.

If anyone has any of these, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm not worried about noise as we added sound insulation when we built our original dishwasher enclosure.

Sheesh! it's hard to keep up with all the different racks designs. So, i looked at one manual for each series (300 to 800 Plus) and there are four cutlery basket design - from one long basket along the side to dividable ones to the cutlery tray. Confusing.

The Maytag 3-rack dishwasher was very nice! A shame such an innovative company went totally down-hill. The lower rack, however, wasn't primarily meant for cutlery. Casseroles, pans and such were to be loaded in this basket - along with utensils in a special tray.

Alex

Correct (I noted earlier that sauce pans would fit in it), which is why I liked that setup. Giving cookware its own rack frees up lots of space on the other two racks. The cutlery rack on the Maytag/jenn-Air was on the left side only, where there was less height above it. These dishwashers incidentally were discontinued even before the remnants of the company were bought out by Whirlpool.

Asko may have the best 3-rack layout currently - with the shallow third rack in the middle. As with the old Maytag/Jenn-Air, and to a lesser extent the current Bosch, the third rack is tall enough for more than just cutlery - cups, squat glasses, and saucepans will often fit.
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Yes, I had to think of the ASKO design as well. Bosch has introduced its second generation of cutlery drawer over here a few months ago. Should be available in the US soon, I guess.

Here is a link that might be useful: varioDrawer Plus

That's a great design. Worth waiting for - wonder if the new rack can be retrofitted to older machines.

This video below (at 1:20) shows the Bosch sliding cutlery basket that can be placed anywhere. Didn't know about how lowering the tines on the lower rack allows glasses, cups, or wine goblets to fit there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch DW racks and movable cutlery basket

I hope the 18"w version makes it across the Atlantic too....

I like this better than the Miele 18" DW

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch/Siemens 18

Some still images of the new Bosch top rack:
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Doesn't look like there's much height for taller cups though

Yes, glasses and cups can be loaded into the lower basket, too. But one has to be careful, since the water pressure can knock them around. The cutlery basket shown in your linked video is not the best one, though. It's a single-piece unit. If you look at my pictures above, you can see that I split mine up and placed it along the front. This one really fits *anywhere* and even in the top rack.

That's one only one I've seen, I think. I assumed the one in that video they just didn't bother to take apart. But yes, the two-piece basket opens up even more options - as others here have used. Or of course the two halves of the basket can be in completely different places.

This single-piece basket in the video is used on BOL units in Europe.

Why doesn't the US ever get the good stuff? I'd love one of these (or maybe two, one on either side of the sink). The only thing anything like it sold here is the F&P single dishdrawer, and they sell well, so why wouldn't these?

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch half height dishwashers

Here's the best pictures I've seen of the aforementioned Bosch split cutlery racks:

You can see how they're designed to slide over the tines so they can be placed anywhere - a great design. Not shown is that the two parts of the basket can also be attached back-to-back rather than side-to-side to create a nearly square, double-width but half-length basket as well, with the two tall sides of the baskets and handles joined together to make one thicker handle used to lift both baskets together. This is a great example of how a seemingly mundane item like a dishwasher cutlery basket can be brilliantly rather than indifferently designed.

I also found a few pics of the aforementioned Maytag/Jenn-Air 3-rack interior, with ample height on all three racks. The first shows the center rack raised so that all 3 racks have substantial height for larger items. The lower picture has the center rack lower, relegating the lower rack to mostly utensils and flatter cookware, but notice how large-diameter plates fit on both of the racks above it simultaneously, with the entirety of the racks configured to fit either plates or glasses/cups. These machines had four revolving washarms, and still managed to fit three roomy racks into them. These unfortunately aren't made anymore.

Thanks for the helpful discussion. I am leaning toward the Bosch Ascenta Series SHX3AR7. Does anyone have any feedback on this model?

That's a good, basic dishwasher. Our consumer magazine recently tested cheaper dishwashers and one of these plasic-stainless-hybrid-tub dishwashers was included in the test. While it wasn't the quietest or most efficient machine, it cleaned the best out of all.

Alex

Thanks, Alex for that info. I'm glad to hear that as I was really leaning toward the more expensive model and my DH talked me down. He is convinced we'll be replacing our DW in 10 years anyway, so we might as well buy a less expensive version now, and we sound insulation when we added the first DW in the kitchen 9 years ago, so the sound level isn't much of an issue for me.