There are two companies that make dishwashers with a truly HEATED dry cycle; Whirlpool and GE.

GE makes various GE brands like Profile, Café , and Monogram,

Whirlpool makes KitchenAid, JennAir, Kenmore Pro/Elite as well as tiny luxury niche brands like Heartland.

Whirlpool is better regarded than GE when it comes to dishwashers.

The problem here is new federal water and electric energy star regulations. Every watt spent drying is a watt not spent on the water pumps cleaning the dishes. Every watt spent on a hard food disposer is a watt not spent on the water pump cleaning dishes.

As American regulations converge with European regulations the German/European solutions work best. Enzyme based detergent to break down food instead of electricity consuming hard food disposers and rinse-aid/vented drying instead of heated dry.

If Federal regulators allowed Whirlpool to use as much water and electricity as they wanted in their dishwashers Whirlpool could make dishwashers like the Hobart of old and gives clean dry dishes in 20 minutes.

Miele can give you clean dry dishes. Uses less water and electricity too. It just takes 2-2.5 hrs.

I'm a little confused by your answer deeageaux - I thought all manufacturers met the Energy Star standards using one particular cycle (e.g. with heated dry turned off). I thought the heated dry was in that sense independent of the energy used for cleaning.

To the OP: I have a 10 year old KA with heated dry - it cleans and dries well. There have been some reported issues with some recent KA models so do your research and be careful.

My bocsh without heated dry, dries must better then my kenmore it replaced that had heated dry.

Same with my Bosch. It does a better job of drying than my old KA.

Bonnie

My Bosch does not dry as well as my ten year old jennair. The middle rack is never dry. We have to empty the middle shelf every day so items can air dry in the drainboard.

I would agree with others, my new Miele without a heated dry does way better at drying that my old whirlpool that did have it.

Get a Miele, you won't regret it in my opinion.

Phil

Could I add the best to dry that has a panel front fully integrated look? Thanks.

I was dead set that my next DW had to have heated dry. I was talked into a Bosch after hearing the neighbors new KA and seeing the steam pouring out the side exhaust onto their cabinets. I am surprised at how much I like our Bosch. We leave the door shut until long after it is cool and it is always dry.

Actually I currently have a Miele and have hated it since Month #1 (in the early 2000s!) because it does not dry without the use of rinse aid which I don't want to use. If I had known that about Euro DWs (which don't have a heated dry, like my previous vintage KA had) I would never have bought one. Hence my determination to make sure my next DW has a true heated dry instead of that ridiculous fan-dry system.

Another reason I hate the Miele is that when I did use it, the 2+ hour run time was ridiculous.

The Miele does a nice job as an additional pair of (hand washed) dish drainers though, LOL

i have a miele dimention plus (dec 2011) and everything just drys up great.

So, what is the problem for you with rinse aids? Please do not take this as a rhetorical or mocking question. Do you have a medical reason for avoiding them? Or do you simply object to having to spend more money on cleaning dishes? Or is it something else?

I ask this because, as far as I could tell from my unexpected shopping expedition for a replacement DW last year (almost to the day, oddly enough), every current model DW I saw and/or researched required rinse-aids. From the cheapest Crosley at our local (very rural) hardware store to anything available from the Lowe's in my state's largest city to the boutique brands on offer from "high-end" retailers --- every one of them required a rinse aid. Of course, the DWs all can be run withou any rinse aid, but you may get spotting

Also, I found there are relatively few residential dishwashers these days that do not have extremely long cycle times. To me, a long cycle time is 1.5 hours. I bought a Bosch that will run a full cycle in about 1.5 hours. Most things are dry enough for me to put away in a few minutes after a cyle finishes, but your standards on this may vary. Everything else I saw had much longer times except for one KA model that apparently clocked at 115 minutes for a cycle. (I think it was a KUDS60 series model which was above my budget.)

I found some Kitchenaid and other models that Consumer Reports' testing said did a good job with heated drying but the cycles took well over two hours to complete and the one with stainless-steel tubs all seemed to cost twice what I paid for the Bosch. And they still required rinse-aids. In answer to your question about the heated dry not working on KitchenAIds, I did run across numbers of posts about the "KUDS30" series but couldn't figure out how much of the problem was not using rinse aids, very hig humidty locations, very hard water, circuit board or other component failures, and how much it might have been been other things or a poor product design.

I looked at Mieles but none of them had a heated dry cycle and, again, their specified cycle times were over two hours and they required rinse-aids and the were a lot more expensive than the Bosch I bought. I know a couple of folks who have Mieles ("crystal" models, IIRC) and the dishes all seem dry-enough to me. Cycle times all seem to be roughly 140 minutes and they do require/specify rinse aids.

When Deeagaux says Whirlpool brands (including KitchenAid) are "better regarded" than GE, this is borne out by the reliability reports from Consumer Reports' annual membership surveys. Bosch, Whirlpool (WP branded) and Miele are significantly the most reliable brands with about an 8% defect rate in the first 5 years of ownership. I think he is mostly correct that only GE and Whirlpool supply heated dry DWs, although it seems to me that, when I was shopping last summer, some of the less-expensive Frigidaire DWs also had heated dry cycles. IIRC, they also had very long cycle times, like on the order of 2.5 hours.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Tue, Jun 18, 13 at 20:39

i don't think any dishwashers requires rinse aid, right? I do dishes without rinse aid all the time. The point of the rinse aid is to make them your dishes and glassware spotless after they have been dried inside the dishwasher.. which looks more presentable especially if you have guests.. Even if i don't use the rinse aid sometimes, the dishes will still be perfectly clean and dry, and the waterspots are not bad at all.. maybe a few on clear glassware.

I have a GE Profile PDWT580VSS. I think there are some less expensive models in their line which essentially do the same thing. But it's worked perfectly for me for the past year I've had it. The heated dry works well for me when I use it.

It has this SmartDispense feature which I didn't think would be a big deal but is great -- I only fill the dishwasher with detergent about every 3-4 months.

It replaced a Bosch which, despite generally positive reviews, for me was terrible -- it didn't wash, it didn't dry, and it didn't have a lot of room inside.

"i don't think any dishwashers requires rinse aid, right?"

No, many of the newer DWs that rely on condensation drying need a rinse aid.

They figured it was more effective to add heat to the water (warming the dishes).

The detergents work better in the hotter water also.

The thinner film of water remaining with the rinse aid usedc then evaporates off the dishes and condenses on the outer walls of the DW.

Low mass items (plastic usually) do not dry as well since with a smaller mass they cannot hold as much heat.

You also need to use a rinse aid now becuase the FEDS have made detergent maker take out phosphate, which kept dirt from going back on the dishes.
GE vs Whirpool
As a person that sells both I have more problems with Whirlpool products as well as thier customer service.

bluestar or capitol culinarian

Might want to check that post. Looks like it went to the wrong thread. This one is about dishwashers, not ranges or cooktops.

Ooops, double post. Sorry.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Wed, Jun 19, 13 at 23:25

No it was deliberate. FmrQuahog is a troll.

No offense taken at your question, JVVideo. :-) The reason I avoid using rinse aid is medically based; in addition to having multiple chemical sensitivities, I am also a former cancer patient. So I make a serious effort to greatly reduce or eliminate coming into contact with chemically (rather than naturally) based products. For instance I never use fabric softener and my laundry detergent is the 7th Generation brand which is also free and clear of dyes and fragrances. I also use naturally sourced shampoo and don't wear makeup or hair styling products, and wear only 100% natural fabrics such as cotton, linen and wool.

But getting back to the rinse aid question, I never needed it in my old Kitchen Aid which completely dried all the dishes with its blast-furnace heated dry cycle, LOL. When I first got the Miele I did not use rinse aid and of course found that everything remained wet. When I contacted Miele I was told that rinse aid was required for drying. Not a happy camper to hear this, but I decided that I would give it a try to see if it made a dramatic difference. I set the rinse aid dispenser to the recommended setting which was 3. The first thing I noticed was that when I filled one of the cleaned glasses with drinking water, it created some soapsuds on the water surface that did not go away. This was the case with all of the glassware and the bowls that had been washed by the Miele using rinse aid. I had to thoroughly rinse all of these items by hand in order to get them clean enough so that putting water into them wouldn't create any suds! When I contacted Miele about this new issue I was told that "of course the rinse aid leaves a slight surface residue because that is the way rinse aid works". And so, since I don't want to be drinking out of, or eating off of or with, items that have a film of chemical residue on them (which is why I don't use fabric softener, or laundry detergents with brighteners, both of which do the same thing) , I do not use rinse aid at all. (I did try using the two lower rinse aid settings but #2 still produced the suds and #1 left everything wet, thus no point). I have been told about the vinegar method but I have also read that it can damage the dishwasher parts so it seems to be a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, LOL.

What is interesting is that on the very few occasions when I have run the dishwasher after the original rinse aid test had been flushed out of it, there are absolutely no suds in any of the glassware or bowls. So it definitely was not coming from the detergent but indeed from the rinse aid function as the Miele rep said.

Some of these folks that are saying that their old dishwasher (With a heater), did not dry as well as their new Bosch or Miele obviously had a bad or weak heater, or they did not have the heater turned on.

While I do have a Miele Optima, and I really like it, No WAY does it dry like the 3 old Kitcheaids I had.

In fact it took me "quite a while", to get used to reaching in to get the dishes in the Miele, (even right after it finsihed),. and NOT Hollerin "YOWSAH", as I used to do with the old KA's.
(YOWSAH being my exclamation!!!! when I grabbed a very not dish, looked for a place to set it down, (real fast like), cause I didn't wait for the dishes to cool.

Now YOU TELL ME, how can something be that hot and not dry????? (Most Unlikely).

Like I said, I really do like my Miele, but "Just the Facts", Just the Facts Mam!!!!

Gary

I have a 23 year old Kitchen Aid and its going strong. Heated air dry = forced heated air make threw a fan. Nothing is better then a old Kitchen Aid when they were made by Hobart. Hobart make commercial dishwashers. Now Kitchen ad is Whirlpool, Maytag and there is no way are you getting 20 years out of them. I going to have replace it and it will be hard. I like Lg, Miele, but do they have models with forced hot air. I'm not a fan of energy efficient if it doesn't do the job.

I'm totally with you! The condensation drying of Euro style machines mostly works if you have a lot of crockery and metal, and use rinse aid. The surfactant of the rinse aid breaks the surface tension of the water, and the heat retained in the dishes causes evaporation, which then condenses on the walls of the tub. Or something like that. My fancy Italian flatware has acrylic handles, I don't put my cast iron pots in the DW, so there often are none, I have more glass and plastics than crockery, and my plates are thin porcelain which doesn't retain so much heat anyway. Without a heater my dishes stay wet.

As far as I know, Whirlpool brands, inc. Kitchen Aid, and GE are the brands with heated drying. It seems that some Bosch do as well. When it's "heat assisted" there's not enough heat to do much good. Just a little puffer. Most people like the new KitchenAids well enough (just keep in mind that it's not the same company as your old one). I disliked the racks so much I got a GE, but I wouldn't recommend it highly. It annoys me the least, and it does have customizing settings, which help. The only cycle everything gets dry on is Plastics with added heat (water) and heated dry. On this cycle, at least, it doesn't do a great job scrubbing, though might be better with Finish Quantum. It cleans, but a tiny piece of lettuce stuck to a plate will remain and come out a clean tiny piece of lettuce still stuck to the same plate. At least it does dry. :) And the racks are pretty good.

I would like an option button on my dishwasher that says, "Dry the heck out of them, I don't mind paying a few more bucks a month to not have to dry my dishes" And I'd sign the "It's my fault if the plastic melts" disclosure :). I also don't wash my nicer pots, etc. in the dishwasher. I mostly wash glass and plastics. I hate to dry dishes, especially all the plastic type bowls I wash and I have such a busy schedule with little time. So I'm also looking at appliances for my new house we are building and I hope the KA will dry well. I was looking at the Model KDTE014ESS. Hope they still make them to dry well in 2015.

I posted earlier about my 30 year old kitchen ad. I just bought a Asko. swedish brand. Heated blow dry. It will dry plastic

I have Asko too danncas1 and I love the dry dishes!

Yes. Since hobart doesnt make kitchen ad I looked around. Asko all stainless tubing and all. The motor is on its own platform and sensor for leaks in the tray

what model numbers Asko's did you guys buy? Are reasonable quiet too? Where did you buy them?

The best way to find a dealer is go to the web page. They are not sold at the box stores model d5628xxls they are all built the same just options differ. Yes it quit cleaning no problem. I rise everything that has lots of food on it. Dishwashers dont have garbage disposer in them any more . Its just wise to rise them so food item stay out. Some people throw the dishes in so dirty and expected to clean them I don't want my dishes sandblasted I have a garbage disposal so I rinse them off fairly clean and then throw them in. I think some people's expectations of appliances is ridiculous

I have Asko model 5654XXL be sure to choose a model with Turbo drying. I purchased mine from a local appliance store. From their website they have new models coming out that will be available this Fall. It appears that their new models have a different rack configuration and many have a salt dispenser. Here's a link that may be useful: http://www.askona.com/dishwashers/built-in

I have turbo drying. I sure hope this one last as long as the old kitchen aid made by Hobart. Seem nothing no matter how much it cost last for ever these dsys. But it still hold true in 2015 that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

I have a 13 year old Viking - it is amazing!! Has a rockin' hot dry setting. Start to finish about an hour - sparkling clean!! Sprayers stopped spinning Sunday - repair guy says parts for the motor may be discontinued. I found a couple of websites that carry Viking dishwasher parts so we are looking into that option. The problem is the Viking stopped making dishwashers. I believe this is an ass go with the Viking label. I will do anything I can to repair it. If not – it looks like the Asko may be my best bet. The Viking is a lovely dark gray that matches the Viking stove and has stainless trim. that heated dry is magnificent - not really willing to give it up. I have a tankless water heater – so I am contributing to energy saving that way

Should be a - not a** - got a love AutoCorrect

Having just regrettably disposed of a "going strong" Kitchen Aid dishwasher of 15 years vintage, because somebody not me dropped a steel jewelry chain into it's maw, thereby ruining the masticate-or blade drive mechanism...

I have learned , too late, that I should have repaired it.

Y'see, replacing the masticate-or assembly did me no good: the plastic drive nub on the end of the main motor shaft was worn away.. and replacing the whole damn motor for a 15 cent part just seemed foolish, so I junked it out for a MODEL: FGID2477RF frigidairre, which was such a piece of crap as to excite me out of my usual equanimity, into a rage of "WTF"??? and similar expostulations.

So, I have nothing to add to the conclusions expressed above: but remorse that my ignorance blew away a better dishwasher than I'll likely ever have again. FYI, I swapped it back for a K A KDTE254ESS, which still has a heater coil:

but I'm suspecting I'll still be disappointed.

Woe..

I don't think that any of the modern dishwashers with a "heated dry" option will actually dry a load if you do not use the drying agent. You could look around for an older model DW because sometimes people are getting rid of perfectly serviceable older items. Failing that I think you will just need to open the door and leave it open for an hour or two so that things dry thoroughly before you put them away...but I think that you will have a drip marks on all of your load drying aid is responsible for removing those marks. The other quirk about new dishwashers is that you have to put dirty dishes in the dishwasher you just knock off the big stuff, you do not pre rinse. If you prerinse everything, the dishes will probably come out of the dishwasher about as dirty as they went in. It took me several months to convince my husband that I was correct about this.

Wow, I just read the Asko dishwasher web site, and I want one! Any downsides to Asko?