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Best 48 inch range for 15k

Posted by newmexicomartin (My Page) on
Wed, Apr 3, 13 at 23:11

Sorry if this has been posted before but I'm new to the site and wanted to get some opinions from you folks. I'm looking to replace my 48 inch Viking range that is 4 years old. It is the biggest disappointment of our new house and I'm growing tired of all of its issues/quarks etc. I don't want to buy a Viking "clone"... looking for something different ( if that makes sense).

I'm a foodie that loves to cook and try out new recipes... I cook almost every night for the wife and kids. I also love to entertain. All of our "events" are centered around the kitchen so I would like the best of both worlds... beautiful stove that functions well.

I have looked at le Cornue as an option but that is a little out of my price range ( OK a lot out of my price range) at 35K. I'm thinking somewhere in the 15 to perhaps even 20K but it would have to be a show stopper at 20K.

Any thoughts and advice much appreciated...

Scot


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

I think you would absolutely love a bluestar. I'm the same as you...love to cook almost every night, and the kitchen is the heart of the home...and the range is the heart of the kitchen.

I have a 36" 6 burner bluestar and I LOVE it. It's powerful when you need it and simmers gently as well. I wish I had the space for the 48" as I'd get the six burners and a griddle. A friend of mine has the grill and although its good, no indoor residential grill will ever give you the same results as an outdoor grill. For that, I have the big green egg.

You will not be disappointed with the bluestar. It's a workhorse and you'll not be dealing with any quirks or issues as you're dealing now with the Viking.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

I would use the search function and search BlueStar, Wolf and Capital Culinarian. These are the most often discussed brands and are very different types of ranges and appeal to different types of cooks, all serious. You might want to look at LaCanche threads as well. This forum will give you an idea of strengths and weaknesses of each.

We seriously considered Bluestar(drove 250 miles to look at it), LaCanche, La Cornue(could get a great price on a floor model) and wound up with Wolf because of the great oven. We entertain a lot and the oven has third element convection which keeps the heat very even when it is loaded up. I also like the ability to direct the heat and use the different modes when baking and roasting. We serve off of the range top often and the very low simmer holds even pastas and mashed potatoes without scorching. It has also been hot enough to sear steaks or anything else I have wanted to do. It has been trouble free and I love it.

There are fervent fans of all of these brands, as well as others all for different reasons. It takes a while to wade through all of the posts but you can get an idea of how these ranges work and how that relates to how you cook. Try to see one live in person and read the use and care manuals online.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Lacanche.....

Here is a link that might be useful: Beauty and function....


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

if you want a real workhorse and a showstopper all in one, consider the Bluestar Precious Metals Collection. That thing is stunning. not sure about the price, but i can almost guarantee it'll be cheaper than the Lacanche or other ranges like it.

here's a link: http://www.bluestarcooking.com/products/precious-metals-collection/precious-metals-collection-details


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Thanks guys

I did look into the Lacanche but from what I could tell it they do not make anything that would be 48". I already have a 48" hood and the surrounding counter tops that I don't want to alter.

I also looked at the Molteni ( this is all via internet by the way) and I really didn't like the exhaust ( I assume thats what that is) as my range sits in a island type configuration.

Any and all recs appreciated.

Scot


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Bluestar Precious Metals collection comes in 30" and 36".

Lacanche offers looks not best in class function.

Wolf offers snob appeal to the greatest number of people but not best in class function.

Molteni in the nearest metric size to $48" is over $15k. Chimney moves oven heat above cooktop to the overhead vent.

There is a 48" Bluestar with 6 burners and griddle on the 'bay. I purchased my Gaggenau wall oven from this seller.

Current bid is $3152 plus $99 shipping.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bluestar


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Culinarian

On the 'bay there is also a 48" Capital Culinarian for $7999 with free shipping.

Options include

Griddle and Grill/Charbroiler
Self-clean oven with motorized rotisserie.

Here is a link that might be useful: Culinarian


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

" Posted by deeageaux

Lacanche offers looks not best in class function.

Wolf offers snob appeal to the greatest number of people but not best in class function. "

To help our OP could you please explain specifically how they failed to meet your expectations when you used them and what characteristics keep them from being "best in class function" Maybe you could compare your results in things you prepared in both the LaCanche ovens and Wolf electric oven.

Snobbery comes in many forms, but here is the interesting thing. If you look at the definition it is more about an attitude of a person than it is about an inanimate object.
def.
"one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste"


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

deeageaux is an open burner snob - if it isn't a Culinarian or a Bluestar, it's CRAAAAAP :-)


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

I'll chime in as a relatively new Bluestar owner of six weeks. Very, very pleased with the performance and build of the range. 36RNB with griddle.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

weissman is a burner ignoramus.

Willfully ignorant of the evidence.

Open burners are more efficient and they heat more evenly across the bottom of the pan.

Wolf and Lacanche offer sealed burners that offer neither the power nor the evenness of Bluestar or Culinarian.

And they don't offer an oven that is so superior it makes up the difference.

If you are shopping in this price range buying a sealed burner range is the wrong choice.

The other good option is an induction cooktop with wall ovens.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

According to several posters on this forum, NXR is as good or better than Wolf, Bluestar, and Capital so I guess you should start your search there.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Posted by oceangirl67

According to several posters on this forum, NXR is as good or better than Wolf, Bluestar, and Capital so I guess you should start your search there.

I don't believe NXR makes a 48 inch range. These ranges all have different characteristics that would appeal to different people.


" Posted by deeageaux.

....Willfully ignorant of the evidence.

Open burners are more efficient and they heat more evenly across the bottom of the pan.

What evidence?

Please cite a credible, scientific study to show the efficiency of open burners is higher than a sealed burner. The are people who will make the argument that either one can be marginally more efficient than the other.
Also explain how just by a burner being open vs sealed, it provides the most even heat across a surface that is 8 inches in diameter and a surface that is 14 inches in diameter. We've had this discussion so many times and no one has been able to make the case for this. Most people are using these burners to actually cook . Since no one burner is the most even in all circumstances, choice of cookware is key to even heating. and easy to change.

And they don't offer an oven that is so superior it makes up the difference.
If you are shopping in this price range buying a sealed burner range is the wrong choice.

Consider that there are people that cook in a different way than you do and and have different needs. . "Superior" and "wrong choice" are very subjective terms. Some people might consider any one of these characteristics to be key an is what makes an oven superior for them. You can buy an open burner in very cheap ranges as well.

- no electronics
- all kinds of electronics
- inexpensive
- french doors
- rotisseries
- steam injectors
- third element convection
- dual convection fans
- no convection fan
- variable speed convection fan
- infrared broiler
- wide broiler
- "steam" oven
- tiny oven
- giant oven
- energy effecient
- gas
- electric
- stainless
- rolling racks
- knob controls
- digital controls.
- reputation for reliability
- reputation for good service
etc

Very few people have owned or even cooked more than a few times with more than one or two of these ranges, especially current models. That is why it is hard to draw comparisons. You can really only say what your range has done for you.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

I wouldn't trust ANY so called "scientific" studies...of anything. Anyone can have a "study" done that has the results they want to "prove", for the right price. I have been approached by such corrupt people. I trust what actual consumers have to say about products and seldom get steered in the wrong direction. In the end, I trust my gut instincts.

I have cooked for years on several brands of closed burner gas ranges. I hate them. I also detest electric ranges. Choice of range and heat source is very personal. My daughter is a good cook and prefers electric.

After much procrastination and research I purchased a gorgeous BlueStar 48 inch range in my favorite color...Ruby Red. I absolutely love this range and it has seen a great deal of use in the past year and a half I have owned it. I cook all our meals from scratch and use mostly cast iron cookware, but also some All Clad as well. It has been an absolute pleasure to cook and bake with.

There are many burner configurations available, but I chose to get 8 burners as I use a cast iron griddle for pancakes, and prefer to grill outdoors. Since I make my own stocks and broths, as well as canning, 8 burners are a wonderful to me as it gives me lots of space within to work.

I thought I would miss not having self clean. I do not miss it at all, particulary the fumes given off and the worry about the intense heat. I am careful when I use the ovens and they are still clean.

My suggestion would be to do some research, think long and hard how you like to cook, and then make a trip to see the range in person at an appliance store or at a friend's house. I instantly fell in love with the Bluestar. It is well made and the customer service has been perfect.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Wow for $15k I could have a set up that feeds over 80. I wouldn't grace the pages of Better Homes & Gardens, and takes up a little more space than a 48" range, but it would produce a result superior to any single range.

Two Polyscience immersion circulators ($1,600 - you could get away with one, but two makes meal planning easier); vacuum chamber sealer ($3,500 - you could get something in the $1k range which would easily handle normal cooking); 36" induction burner ($1,500 - only needed to finish product and heat pressure cookers); a Model 61 Rational Combi Oven ($7,500 - make sure you get the single phase model); 12 Qt Kuhn Rikon pressure cooker ($375 - smaller models are cheaper but this comes in handy making stock); and finally Modernist Cuisine ($460 - 2,300+ pages, 6 volumes) to tell you how to use all this equipment. Use the last $65 to buy a good bottle of wine to go with your first meal.

The only thing my kitchen is missing out of this list is the Combi oven. Hopefully in 18 months I will have it.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Posted by sandy808
I wouldn't trust ANY so called "scientific" studies...of anything. Anyone can have a "study" done that has the results they want to "prove", for the right price.

Yes this very thing is going on right now-" tests" are done on appliances by the person selling the appliances. I don't think they are corrupt but just using showmanship to show an appliance in a certain light with a very specific set of circumstances.
I am in the medical field and these things happen. Read who people work for that do many of the studies. Does that mean we should be paralyzed in what we currently think or just treat people by the by guess and by golly method? There are also lots of good studies. In looking at "testing" or studies, educate yourself about the subject, read the whole thing with a critical eye and get opinions from others who are educated in the subject. These same things apply to cooking.
In order to make a claim that a particular burner is more efficient, you would have to have some sort of data to come to this conclusion in order for the claim to have any credence or we can just randomly believe any claim made depending on our feeling about it.

I trust what actual consumers have to say about products and seldom get steered in the wrong direction. In the end, I trust my gut instincts.

I like to hear how people use their appliances and cook. This can give you invaluable insight. I have learned a lot about how appliances work in reading cooking, baking and cookware forums because the focus is on cooking, not the appliance. Even more important than the source of heat, IMO is understanding cookware, the interface for your food, If you understand the various materials and their properties, you can manipulate the heat to do what you want it to do on just about any range

Choice of range and heat source is very personal.

This is the key. The problem comes when people demean other peoples choices, assuming everybody cooks exactly like they do and especially when they have never even used a particular product.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

The original poster did not say whether they wanted all gas, or electric or dual fuel. Anyway, if it's all gas, I also think Bluestar or Capital Culinarian . I'm also a fan of the 'open burner' concept. American Range also makes a less expensive open burner range, but I haven't heard much about it.

As far as sealed burners go, I think they're fine if you get a range with different sized burner caps - that is, the circle that the flames shoot out from. A range with large sealed burners, and nothing else, does tend to shoot the flames out to the edge of the pan when it's on high. Not a problem with a large pan, but not everyone cooks using only large pans.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Timdeb

I have all of the above ( save the Combi) as well! Still need a 48 inch range though :)

Appreciate all the help... I'm narrowing down the search and I will update. I'm going to the local appliance dealer this am to kick some tires.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

I'm very happy with my 36" Wolf DF, but it sounds like the OP is leaning toward something different.

The only higher-end brands I haven't heard mentioned are Bertazzoni, AGA and Dacor.

May be worth looking into. I'm sure the regulars will have some opinions on these :)


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

I have a 7 yr Wolf DF and love it! Never had a service call. I love the look of closed burners; and truth be told, I have not lacked power for any dish I have cooked. Would purchase it again in a heartbeat! The only feature I don't like is the pizza stone/bake. I never get a crisp crust with that feature.

I have used a very talented professional caterer (executive pastry chef) who has a 30" stand alone Whirlpool electric range in her home. Personal choices are open vs. closed, gas vs. electric vs. induction. There is room for all, and no need to slam any of them. They get the job done, no need to belittle others' personal opinions based on use by essentially assigning them personality disorders due to their preference.

Good value will trump for me every time. I have no problem with an expensive item if I think it is a good value. That said, even though I am not an open flame girl, my next kitchen project will definitely have a colored Bluestar on my list of considerations. Not because I think it will help me be a better cook, not the open burners, but the frivolity of a happy color will make it a good value on my list.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

I too looked at 48: ranges and settled on Wolf - double gas ovens, Blue Star, double gas ovens and Lacanche double gas ovens.

I woud have loved to have landed a Lacanche Cluny 1400 - 2 gas ovens with a warming oven but alas, the site for the where the range would be going could not be reconfigured. We chose the Lacanche Cluny. It's 39" wide.
The Cluny 1400, the Sully, are 55" and if you can make 55" fit, I would say - say DO IT! Your hood will work -

As it is, several world renowned chefs cook on a Lacanche in their homes and some in their restaurants. They cook as beautifully as they look.
You won't go wrong with any of the above.
You can also configure the lacanche with burners, a french top, grill etc. go to their website and take a look.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Show me the " perfect range", and 6 months from now ill show you all its flaws.

A range should never be rated for looks, or presentation, but on how well they serve your style of cooking.

I have a 48" bluestar... and short of a " garland ".... the best ive cooked on, but then again I dont need a turkey button, or a bread button, or a pizza button.... lol.

Imho, a serious range for serious cooks.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Hi, I am new to the forum and I am trying to decide between a LaCanche Salieu (43 inch) and the Bluestar. I know that there are people who can make great arguments on both side of open vs. closed burners, but I was wondering practically speaking if you have a All Clad Copper core pan does it really matter? The bottom line is for looks I would go with Lacanche (I am in love with it and it would be perfect for the rustic style kitchen I am going for with my remodel), but on paper the Bluestar seems better. I am wondering in reality if that difference is big enough since I think both would be a great range in everyday cooking. Probably my biggest convern with the LaCanche is that I won't have as many burners. My husband wants to get it with the 5K, 15k, 18K, and simmer plate and I am concerned that we won't have enough flexibility with that arrangement. The reality is I have never been able to use more than 2 burners on my current range due to their close configuration, so it is still an improvement, but the bluestar has the 8 burner options.
Any thoughts.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Sammy,
I believe you can get up to 6 burners on the Saulieu (5 if you really want the large 18k BTU burner), and you can always get the simmer plate accessory - best of both worlds :)
Use the burners when you want, and swap the grate for the simmer plate when you need, or vice-versa!


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Update for anyone considering Wolf or reading this thread. My Wolf works great but has the chipping of the blue enamel issue. These problems are ongoing in their ovens and they will give me a new part (warrantied for one year only-and seemingly no fix yet) and will pay a small portion of the labor but cannot give a fixed amount for the labor(starts at $800) because they don't know "what they will find". Because I do not wish to reinvest in their faulty parts that they themselves will not stand behind, I am trying to cut my losses and look for a new range. My oven was 4 yrs 10 mos and the damage was advanced by the time I saw it and is down to the bare metal in places. Previously they did replace ovens with this issue even out to 4 1/2 years but this is no longer the case. Not the decades of service promised on the website. Very disappointing from a company who is supposed to be known for quality and taking care of their customers.


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Since the Wolf blue enamel issue has come up again, I will repeat a suggestion that someone (name missing from my text copy) once made on this forum responding to Weissman (msg 0409232327865). He said he obtained it from a service tech. It is a revised protocol for baking-in the Wolf ovens. I followed this protocol and have no flaking.

However, my result is statistically insignificant. Further, while I can conjecture causes that may make the revised protocol helpful, such as giving the enamel an opportunity to conform to the expanding heating metal, I won't say that I have thought of any conjecture that convinces me. In any case, here is the suggestion.

Wolf protocol: Run oven on convection roast for 1 hr. at 500F.

Alternate protocol: Heat oven, run at temperature setting for specified time on convection roast, cool (door closed) to near room temperature, then repeat at the next higher temperature setting from cool. Temperature settings and times (minutes) that I used according to my notes exclusive of heat-up and cool-down times are: 250F/30, 350F/30, 450F/40, 500F/60.

In favor of the alternate protocol, I see no risk with using it. Wolf's protocol seems to be intended to bake off manufacturing oils, so the need to operate at 500F is met either way, but the alternate protocol is a little gentler inducing differential thermal expansion.

kas


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

How long have you had your oven? My damage did not sart until after 3.5 years. Between 3.5 and 4.5 it degraded. I found it at the last cleaning. I looked for it the first couple of years and then did not pay as much attention. I used the self clean at 1.5,2.5,3.5 and 4.5 yrs. In reading about enamels it seems that something used in an oven would have a melting point of at least 1000F or it would melt in the self clean. Glass returns to a rigid state. The ability to adhere or not seems to be determined in the manufacturing process or becomes a problem if there is a mismatch in thermal contraction and expansion of metal and glass. Shiney enamel has more problems adhering than matte enalel. I have baked in a multitude of ovens, none expensive over the last 50 years and never had any chip, no babying required. My grandmothers oven rusted from the backside after 60 years but the enamel was still good. This is an interesting article about enamel on steel and possible issues. Wiki also has a good article.
It is interesting in my 3 bad experiences with blue enamel the damage was different in each. The first oven not Wolf lost enamel before any heat was applied. The whole lining enamel was barely adhered.

Here is a link that might be useful: US Steel


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RE: Best 48 inch range for 15k

Purchase has been almost 6 years; physical possession has been maybe 4 years, use has been around 3 years.

Interesting link, although the details of Wolf's steel and enamel selections are presumably unknown. It does add some perspective to my speculations.

Glass is a liquid at all relevant temperatures, albeit one with extremely high viscosity. Windows measurably sag over time spans of decades.

My guess would be some enamel failures were problems in getting the manufacturing tuned up.

Blue glass frit may include an element that gives it the blue hue that interferes with bonding using conventional methods.

kas


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