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All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Posted by alerievay (My Page) on
Tue, Apr 1, 14 at 18:35

We are in the beginning stages of a kitchen remodel in our 1930 Tudor house. The kitchen will retain a wall of original cabinets and a farmhouse sink, so we're generally looking for appliances that won't look too modern in that environment. I'm hoping to stay under $5k for the range.

We're limited by space to a 30" stove. We currently have an all-gas cheap builder-grade stove. I cook a lot, usually 2 meals a day (breakfast and dinner). Breakfast is typically some kind of eggs, and dinner is usually fairly basic protein/veg/starch. I have been doing a fair amount of pressure cooking and sous vide cooking since I am pressed for time at dinner.

At first, I was 100% convinced I wanted a prosumer/pro dual-fuel range, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. Induction definitely satisfies my love for gadgets, and it actually seems to be fairly well-suited to my cooking. The ease of cleaning and lack of heat in the summer are really appealing to me; the downside is my husband hates the look (and he may have a point with our kitchen), and we might have some wiring problems.

Then, after reading a lot here and elsewhere, I'm not convinced dual-fuel is worth the price difference over all-gas. That would open up a few more ranges around $5k, if we didn't need dual-fuel.

Finally, I haven't really looked at doing a cooktop over an oven, but that might negate some of the aesthetic concerns of induction, if I decided the performance was worth it. I plan to go to a demonstration before I rule induction out.

Thanks for any thoughts/opinions!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I would "Save, beg, borrow, or Steal (LOL), about 2 more grand for a range.

Get the Viking Induction range.

It's the best of "Both Worlds", for you. It has the "Love for Gadgets" appeal, Plus it looks like an older type range with it's knobs instead of keypad controls, and you can get it in a choice of colors.

Now this comes from a "former range user", who much prefers separate cooktops and ovens, and also have been really happy with Electrolux cooking products, but if I were ever to go back to a range, That would be the one!!!!!

Hopefully "luvstoputt" who has one will chime in here.

I won't go into all the advantages of induction as there are tons of posts here.

Anyway, have a look at the Viking Range, before making any decisions and then go from there!

Gary


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Heartland 9200. Definitely looks over cooks but still very nice looks in an appropriate kitchen.

Lacanche Cormatin induction range available in various colors. A bit above your price range but maybe you can find a used one.

Otherwise I would look at a pro-style range painted off white/vintage white.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I was very concerned about going AG, but found I love it. Everything I have done is perfect. (no gourmet baker here but cookies, pies, cake, roasting etc)
I love the infrared broiler though I will day my Thermador electric was an 8 pass electric and it was good too.
I love the simmer on my DCS. And I really like being about to cook in lengthy power outages.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Viking is about the same price as Lacanche.

I would go Lacanche.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Well then howsabout a picture of the La~~~ er~~~~ the La ~~~ummm The La~~~~What???,

anyway please post a pic of that!

Gary


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I did.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Oopps saw the knobs, did not look at the top of the stove, so "assumed it was gas", I best get a new pair of glasses.
Sorry about that!

Anyway I searched high and low for "Lacanche Induction Range", just about every site was either an Aussie or UK site.

I found "this", (see below), in my searching.

("How to power a European induction range in the US, 240V

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-ac-dc/515961-how-power-european-induction-range-us-240v-50hz-need-inverter-expert.html#ixzz2xgGlfdCM

01-16-14, 03:04 PM
#1

I have discussed it with the factory and they have confirmed that the change in hertz will be a problem and it won't work. Actually, that's why they don't sell this model in the US. They are apparently going to redesign the system to work on 60hz, but that will be years coming.")

Note the date of the post, January 2014.

So even if one can find a Lacanche Range with induction, what do you think their chances of finding service on it are?

We have no reviews of Lacanche Induction Ranges (in the US), here in GW, but we do have a positive review of the Viking Induction Range, by a reliable poster in GW.

Alto the Lacanche is great to look at, to me it would be a big gamble, even assuming you can find one for sale in the US, (and I could not)!

Gary


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I should probably say I don't mind a new pro style range in the kitchen, stylistically. The reality is that we are almost forced into stainless appliances, and I think they'll look fine. I strongly dislike the style of the Heartland stove. The Lacanche was on my original list but is too expensive and has no dealers nearby (Nashville).

The looks issue with the induction is the big hunk of black glass in a light gray marble counter.

Not sure if that's helpful?


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Well, if you are willing to forego the range and go with a cooktop and separate oven, Thermador makes an induction cooktop, that I think "most folks" would think goes well with the light gray marble counter.

If you are willing to go with a cooktop, maybe some of the folks that have a "Keener design eye" than I do, can chime in too.

Gary


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I can't claim to have a keener eye for style than Gary but the design mavens on the "kitchens" forum certainly can. You might try a follow-up posting over there and find numbers fof people with 1930s Tudor style houses with pertinent and helpful info.

Reflecting on some of the posts above:

Love2putt started a couple of long threads on his bright red Viking induction range. ("Racing Red" is the color as well as the titles.) Links are:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0614411021786.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0616591630886.html

But for colors other than black or white, there is a pretty sizable cost premium. Unlike some Viking products, the induction ranges seem to have been a reliability/durability bright spot in VIking's product lineup, and the new owners of the company seem to be planning to continue making the induction ranges.

For the North American market, I'm aware of only two other induction ranges with knob controls. One is and Ilve, an Italian import sold be a number of online vendors. Nobody seems to know much about them here except to note that the ovens are small. The the other with knob controls is the lest expensive induction range model by Frigidaire (Electrolux-Frigidaire makes it for sale under the Frigidaire brand as well as for rebranding as a Kenmore.) The Frigidaire is a standard freestanding range with the controls on the backsplash/vent/riser. Seems to be a nice stove but probably not the look you were hoping for.

Induction cooktops may give you a wider range of choices, depending on the room you have in the kitchen. There are numbers of them that have gray and silvery (as opposed to black) surfaces. The brands that I've seen discussed here with those surfaces are Themador (part of the parent company for Bosch) and GE Monogram. You might try searching on the silver surface here if that interests you.

If you (and your husband) can tolerate all-digital controls in your otherwise vintage kitchen-to-be, you might want to have a look at the GE PHS920 induction slide-in. It has stainless and gray finishes rather than the usual stainless and black, (At least that is what I'm seeing the pictures.)

You mentioned wiring. That can be an issue for some houses and some budgets. Most induction ranges --- and most dual fuel ranges, for that matter --- require a 40 amp 240v circuit. Depending on what is in the kitchen now, you might or might not need new wiring. The Viking requires a 50 amp circuit. If you go with and an induction cooktop over an oven, you may likely will need a 40 amp circuit for the cooktop and a 30 amp circuit for the oven, or possible a 70 amp line to a subpanel. That might require a new and larger electrical panel. So, something else check on and maybe figure into the budget.

Finally, I think your idea of an induction demo is a good one. I definitely and heartily recommend getting a demo (or two) of induction appliances. Your husband might (or might not) find that he likes using it enough to overcome his aversion to the appearance.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

If you could go to 36" or a few more $$$ there might be something you like

I can't find a picture of this in 30" in antique white but they do make one, but here is 36" in absolute white.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

36 is really out, because there just isn't enough room for that and small cabinets on either side. Plus, the cost premium is more than our budget.

What about all-gas versus dual-fuel? It seems like DF is disliked here. I don't do a huge amount of baking. I bake bread about once a week and have honestly had zero problems with my cheap gas range on that point. It clearly has some hot spots when cooking meats (especially bacon), but it bakes bread fine.

I can definitely tell another long trip to the appliance store is coming!


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Bertazzoni Heritage Series HER366GAS $6200 No 30"

AGA Legacy ALEG36DFIVY Only available in DF $5400 No 30"

AGA Legacy ALEG36DFCDIVY $5700 DF no 30"


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I really like the Italian ranges, but no one in Nashville carries any of them. I'm very hesitant to buy a brand that is not sold nearby.

Here are the brands available:

AGA
Dacor
Bosch
Thermador
Viking
Wolf
Jenn-Air/KitchenAid
La Cornue
BlueStar
DCS
FiveStar
GE

After an initial trip to the appliance store looking for a dual-fuel, I narrowed it down to Thermador, Jenn-Air, or maybe the new Bosch Benchmark. But now, as you can see, I'm totally reconsidering and am going back on Saturday to spend a couple of hours with a more open mind. I'm still probably leaning Thermador, but we'll see. The Viking issues from several years ago are still a little too fresh in my mind, and the price is a bit above my budget, especially in the colors.

As for design, we are working with a kitchen designer who is sensitive to our desire to make a more functional, modern kitchen but in keeping with the character of our house.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I would buy GE Café before the new Benchmark.

And I would buy a Bluestar before Thermador.

30" RNB floor model below for $3300 plus $300 for delivery.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bluestar RNB


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Did you make a final decision. I am generally (90% of the time) a function over form girl- but this 36" Aga Legacy is just gorgeous! However, I don't think its really a $5000 stove from a quality perspective...it just costs $5K here in the US.

What I love about it is the multiple oven sizes and the style (of course). What I don't like is the fact its pretty unknown around here (service wise), no self cleaning, and some reliability issues. Did I mention it costs $5K?

Anyone have any more thoughts on the AGA?


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I actually haven't made a final decision yet. I'm leaning heavily toward the new Bosch 30" induction; when my local appliance store gets a model in stock, I'll be in there ASAP!

I also am interested in the new Big Chill 30" professional-style stove, which is manufactured by Blue Star. I like the color options, and I think it's a little better priced than a comparable Blue Star. But, of course, there are no local Blue Star or Big Chill dealers, so that's an issue.

Basically, once I completely confirm that my wiring is ok for the Bosch induction AND decide that I like it (and that my husband likes it), that's the most likely option. If we don't like it or if we don't have the electrical capacity, we'll pick something else (likely all-gas, given the electrical needs of DF, which are similar to the induction range).

Clear as mud, right??? :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Big Chill Pro Stove


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

I haven't seen the new Bosch range, but I have a Bosch induction cooktop and love it (and I have had/cooked on all manner of other fuel sources in my life :-) ). If there had been a 30" induction range available when we remodeled (only finished a few months ago), I would have jumped on it; as it is, we had trouble finding an oven to fit under the induction cooktop (where it had to be) with our particular cabinets.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

So I'll update this, as we still haven't made a decision.

Induction: I bought an induction burner and like it, although it isn't as life-changing as I sort of expected. (I realize the power is much lower than a range or cooktop would be.) We also had an electrician examine our house, and he thinks we can put one in. My dad (also an electrician) and husband agree we should do a max load test before we put 40 or more amps on the panel, though. (Long story short: we have a 200 amp breaker but 100 amps coming into the house, so we need to put in a smaller breaker.) So it's still a bit up in the air.

Gas/dual-fuel: I went to look at the Aga Legacy today and really liked it. I'm also going to look at a Lacanche soon, at a Lacanche ambassador's house. Both of those are, frankly, more than I wanted to pay, but I really love the looks and some of the features a lot (ovens on the Aga, simmer plate and large burner on the Lacanche).

I've also considered a BlueStar or Big Chill Pro Style (rebadged BlueStar), but there isn't one local to me. The price, features, and availability of the color finish are good, but I'm a little nervous about all the issues people have had.

I think I've looked at nearly every option out there, but I'd love to hear more if anyone has ideas!


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

If you can get a look at a Five Star, you might keep it in the running. Some (limited) colors. There are a few people who have posted here, particularly over in kitchens, who have one. What I haven't seen are piles of complaints.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Thanks! Five Star is actually sold at one of our local stores.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

alerievay,

I'm a little late to this post, but A-1 Appliances on Hwy 100 carries Big Chill, don't they? I was in there last week looking at dishwashers (!), and remember seeing color samples on the wall.

I could be wrong; they may not actually have any in stock, but...Hope this helps!


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

They sort of nominally carry them, I think. They do have a dishwasher panel, but that's all. The only color samples I saw were Aga, but I definitely may have missed some!

Thank you for that! I prefer Cenwood's customer service, but we may end up with A1 because my husband is enamored with the Miele dishwashers.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

Like I said, not positive...my mind was elsewhere!

I haven't been in Cenwood yet, but was impressed with A1's selection of Bosch and Miele, which I'm also enamored with having just gotten back from Europe. I never heard a peep from the Miele dishwashers in every apartment...my dream!

Also, mind if I pick your brain for a moment? We're about to gut our 1930 Craftsman-style cottage in the Hillsboro area and appliances are overwhelming when you can do anything (within budget)! ;) Does Cenwood have the Bosch 30" induction and FiveStar? I'd love to see those as well.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

They do have FiveStar, and I think there is a 36" floor model for sale right now. The new Bosch lines are delayed, apparently. I emailed today and found that out. He didn't have an estimated date of arrival, but (hopefully) he will notify me when they are in.

We have decided (I think) to do an electrical upgrade, so we can't go too expensive with the appliances. On the bright side, I can consider induction now.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

sjhockeyfan:

What wall oven did you wind up placing below the Bosch cooktop?

I went to Cenwood on Friday, and oh my, induction! I had almost settled on the GE Cafe all-gas 30" range, but now I'm really, really tempted by induction!

alerievay, Did your Cenwood CSR seem as enamored with the Kitchenaid induction cooktop as mine was? I liked it a lot, but don't want a Kitchenaid wall oven below it, b/c of all the problems with the self-cleaning feature. (Unless they've fixed it.)


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

imaginejem, I'm still trying to figure out if I can do an induction cooktop. We are meeting with the kitchen designer on Friday, and hopefully I will make a decision by then!

I haven't looked at the KA induction top much. I really like the Jenn-Air and will probably decide between that and a Bosch if we go the cooktop route. Will all depend on price, most likely.


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RE: All-gas vs. dual-fuel vs. induction - 30" range

alerievay, we had no choice but to use a "short" (top to bottom) oven, so we went with the 30" Fagor. It's a great oven -- cooks and bakes really evenly, and no bells & whistles -- but alas, the company went into bankruptcy right after we bought ours.


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