After reading everything here and most of the few other post on the net I think the only possible problem might be very dellicate one portion sauces. But I don't know.Thinking of going to one of two live Culinarians here in the LA area to see.That is mostly theoretical because who bothers to make only one portion of a very delicate sauce.

The problem with Bluestar ignitors is well known.The advantage to cleaning the two piece CC burner is fact.

The only way I am getting a Bluestar is if I can find one at a deep discount.

I think you are fine.

What exactly is the problem with Bluestar ignitors? Please tell me. Mine are fine. I assume you have experience with Bluestar ignitors?

The argumentative tone is getting tiresome.

I am thus far happy with my CC but do have a clicking problem with the original burners. Importantly, however, I am pleased with the responsiveness of Capital and Trevor after the sale as they were quick to arrange for the replacement burners to be shipped after I raised the issue--I am expecting to receive tomorrow or Monday and, from all reports, expect the clicking to be resolved.

You know damn well what the problem is and it documented here on multiple threads on GW.

They are exposed and can crack when cleaning the range.

That is why Bluestar gives two extra with purchase plus they have a video on their site on how to replace them.

As stated above and multiple threads I have yet to purchase my range.

Hi Lilybean,

Ok, I'll keep this completely objective and constructive. You asked for honest opinions from people that actually own one or the other.

Do I think you've made a big mistake buying the CC? No. I think it will cook your food just fine!

Personally, I have a Bluestar V1 range. I liked the fact that it has burners of different sizes. I don't have to try to get my hottest burners to be my coolest simmers. THAT SAID, I have the French cooktop and if I really want a low simmer that's what I use. I can literally achieve any temperature I want with it.

Despite many apparent threads on broken Bluestar ignitors (I actually haven't read them), I personally (and it's just me) don't see how it's even possible. I guess if I caught the tip on the end of a sponge or rag and pulled it could break. Never even occurred to me, although I am not OCD about scrubbing down my burners. I treat them like a cast iron pan.

I do have four spare ignitors, though. I'll let you know if I should need one.

Hope this helps.

-Stooxie

I was in a similar situation recently, debating between a BlueStar and the Culinarian.

A local dealer had them on hand, so I was fortunate to be able to check them both out in person before making a decision. I liked the grates on the BlueStar better, but preferred the Capital for most everything else.

The design was a tossup; I wasn't a fan of the spacer grate on the 30" Culinarian, and the BlueStar's austere design was cleaner, but the Capital had better build quality and felt more substantial. I preferred the burners on the Culinarian and liked that all the burners were the same. Ultimately, after putting my hands on both, I felt that the Capital was the better way to spend the money. BlueStar also had some consumer unfriendly sales practices that made the decision even easier as a matter of principal.

We've had the Culinarian almost a month now and have enjoyed it very much. It's nice being able to bring things to a boil on any burner and then turn them down to a simmer without having to move anything around. We've cooked rice several times a week without the slightest problem. Wok cooking--even though I don't have the wok grate yet--is night and day better than my old Kenmore, as is the oven. After adjusting all the burners, I do have a problem with one of them clicking during simmer, but Capital support has been helpful and quick to respond with a service visit.

I think you'd be happy with either choice. Had the Culinarian not existed when I was shopping, I'd have ended up with a BlueStar and I'm sure I would have been thrilled with it. But the Culinarian did exist, I'm happy with my choice, and I'd easily make the same decision again.

Hope that helps,

Jason

I'd like to stand up for the Bluestar for a moment if you will...
Bluestar ignitors are great and always have been. The now old models had a bad module at one time, many years ago. The new models even have separate circuits to each ignitor.

The Bluestar simmer is far and away better than what's offered by Culinarian, because they don't offer a simmer burner ...Not just for a true low simmer, but for medium and high with a small diameter pan. Put a small pan on a Culinarian and turn up the power and you'll see. People can cook rice on large cap sealed burners too, it can be done, but that's not the point. The point is the number of flame holes, the size of the holes and the diameter of the pattern.

The reason Bluestar has eight fingers is so that the flames go between the grates. While a portion of the Culinarian circular flames go up and heat up the grate, not the pan

And yes, the Bluestar cooktop is even easier to clean, while the Culinarian has two levels to remove, and the supports to the grates as well. In fact, if you watch the video that Culinarian has you can see that there's so much going on between the burner and the drip tray that liquid or other material barely makes it down to the tray. It's certainly not "open" to the drip tray, more like semi-open or semi-sealed...Instead, it (the bread crumbs and liquid and other debris,) hangs up in nowhere land among stainless sheet steel and brackets, or float on top of the burner before making its way down the small gap. Be careful not to cut yourself.

It's amusing if you think that is easier to clean... more like an erector set to me. But the flames go up, and that's really all that matters, no cap over the burner itself...

The Bluestar is a breeze to clean and easy to see whats going on once the grates are removed.

Now, lets go on with this rant and discuss the Capital oven- the broiler on the Culinarian is covered with glass. I guess this is so you can turn the convection fan on while broiling...that also makes no sense. But the glass makes it harder to clean and so the broiler becomes less and less useful as it gets covered in grease.

Do you know how hard it is to clean the inside of your oven door glass? Now imagine you have steaks, burgers, chops, and other fatty foods popping grease up on the glass Culinarian broiler from an inch away. You start to think maybe you do need that self clean feature..

And then you have the metal brackets that hold the glass up. Good luck cleaning all those edges and corners and rivets/bolts.

And did you know that IR rays do not like going through glass to begin with? It depends of the wavelength of the IR and the emissivity of the glass. Heated air from the gas fueling the ceramic doesn't like glass either.

The Bluestar has no such 'possible' problems. Whatever splatters up on the broiler is burned off. No glass to interfere with the Infra-red. No metal angle brackets hanging down into the oven cavity to clean.

Also the Bluestar has real chrome plated oven rack guides along the sides of the oven that are easily removed, so that the oven trays will not drag along the porcelain paint like the Culinarian-(and other cheaply built ranges) in fact with the Bluestar, you can take the side guides out and lay them down on the oven floor if you need a super low rack and don't want to put your extra large turkey directly on the oven floor.

To repeat, in my opinion, to criticize an old Bluestar module from years ago is silly, especially since Capital have already changed their burners and ignitors because of problems (within 6 months of being released) and got rid of their small 'simmer' burner. What's next? Anyway, that's what I say to the Bluestar bashers who don't know what they're talking about. In 4 years of owning a Bluestar, I've had two problems, the spark module, and the oven door, both items Bluestar has fixed and eventually improved. It is a noble beast of a cooking machine.

The Culinaian looks like a great open burner rangetop. And I realize you are not getting an oven, or broiler, just the rangetop. Get it with the smallest (island trim) backsplash, so that curved pans can fit over the back edge. The ones pictured on the Capital look higher than they need to be, but maybe someday down the line they'll fix that too. Q.E.D.

Now, I'll apologize and say that the above was just a taste of what I've been reading from some bashers on this forum, only toward the range that I own and use.
If people are going to be critical, they should take off the magic glasses they seem to wear for whatever is new and shiny.
I think the Culinarian is a great choice and may be your best choice. Really I'd be happy to own either one. The people who have cooked on the Culinarian seem to be very please with it's performance.

Hi Lilybean, I'm in the same boat as you except I haven't ordered yet. I'm very torn on which one to get. The good thing is we really can't go wrong with either one so since you've already ordered a Capital, I think you should not second guess yourself. It's rare to hear negative things about the Capital.

I do have a question for "alexr and Stooxie" since you both have Bluestars can you tell me if the oven door on the V1 (or the older version with a new door)still has to have the hinges oiled regularly? It's probably not that hard to do but just on principal, you shouldn't pay $5,000ish for a range that you have to oil the hinges or the door freezes on you! Particularly since other similar ovens do not have this issue.

No, I don't think you made a mistake. I am probably one of a very few number of people who have owned both a Bluestar and a CC. I am also one of the few people who actually got the smaller/simmer burner on the CC. I left that one burner in place when I got the new burners which were all 23k but have found it only marginally better with even my smallest pan. The standard 23k burner when reduced to about half power produces a flame pattern that just covers my 4" pot. The reason Bluestar really needs the smaller burner is because the star burner is 8" tip to tip so even a half power it produces a very wide diameter flame patter. That's not the case with the CC. The outer flame ports have a mere 5" diameter. The only reason I have not switched the simmer burner to the new 23k one is lack of time and urgency.

From a simmer perspective, I find the "new" burners from CC to have a simmer level more than sufficient for any use. It is probably a bit hotter than the lowest simmer on the small BS burner but frankly, anything that is that delicate shouldn't be left unattended and probably requires constant stirring. Heck in a restaurant kitchen, the burners don't go any lower than about a mid low on either of these ranges. In my experience with both setups, I'd say the difference is marginal.

My best advice is to stop reading and start planning the menu of your first meal. THAT would be a much better use of your time and produce less stress. There really isn't any new information being posted.. and honestly.. you're kind of asking if you should have bought a Mercedes after you ordered the BMW. Relax and enjoy the fact that one major decision is behind you.

Best of luck and enjoy...

First off, I think Amcook probably gave you the best advice of the thread: "stop reading and start planning the menu of your first meal".

Second, everything Alexr said. Especially about cleaning.

Carol, about the oven hinges, I have had no problems. I do give them a squirt of food grade silicon spray about once every 3 months IF I remember. Is that unreasonable? Should a "top tier" machine require zero maintenance? Personally, I think that's a logical fallacy. My car requires oil changes and tire rotations and a premium car requires premium gas and faster wearing tires. It's a different level of performance and requires a bit of attention.

I believe there is a real functional practicality to the Bluestar that doesn't stand out against sexy numbers or nifty features. In my opinion, because of that it IS closer to an actual commercial range. That, however, is not everyone's cup of tea.

As I have asserted many times over, they are DIFFERENT, and one should hopefully be able to align yourself to specific features/functions that make the choice pretty clear.

Hope that helps.

-Stooxie

@amcook- Are you sure you owned a Bluestar? 8" tip to tip?!? That is a gross exaggeration. It is 6" tip to tip....even less than 6" if measured from port hole to furthest porthole.

Sorry, that is so way off base I could not let it go.

I certainly did own one but don't have one in front of me today so will not argue about the number. It is based on what I recall when I measured it at someone's request here in fact. I can say that I used the same pots and pans on both and the flame pattern is definitely dispersed in a wider diameter. That's not necessarily a bad thing but just depends on what you are looking for.

I agree with tyguy, the distance between outer flame holes is less than 5 3/4 inch from tip to tip actually closer to 5 5/8". So from the center of the pan, to the outer edge of flame the difference between the Bluestar and the CC is about 1/4 of an inch. You may also notice that the CC outer ring of flames 'shoots' out sideways somewhat, especially on high, because the flame holes are on a slant facing outward.

Also, on the Bluestar, it is only the few holes at the end of each finger that extend out that far, while on the CC, it is the entire ring of flame.

I would love any of the shills to dispute these criticisms of the CC and the ones I listed earlier in this thread. (Not Trevor or amcook, who know what they are talking about, but the shills who don't own either range, but 'seem' to think of themselves as experts!) For months I have been reading your so called advice and even rude attacks on owners with your dubious knowledge about ignitors,etc, and shilling for CC- wow, that's exactly what it's been- you don't even own one. Thanks for the gossip.

To answer the question about the oven door and lube. For a year or so, Bluestar has been working on the door problem with various fixes, that seem to work fine (but it was hard to know for sure because it takes a few years of oven use for the problem to develop). They now have new hinges that are going in the new ranges, this fixes the problem at the source. The earlier fixes of venting and insulating the old hinges in the door also seems to be working. The most recent doors going out to old customers (for free) will have the new hinges as well. I know this because I spoke with several folks at the factory, because my 4 year old Bluestar had a sticky door.

Again, in the spirit of transparency and enlightenment, jsch, what consumer unfriendly practices are you talking about? I am genuinely curious. Not wanting to support internet retailers, or something along those lines? I think I've seen that come up.

Thanks,
-Stooxie

I mentioned it in another thread, but I'll elaborate on my experience a bit more.

When I initially started my search, I was looking at BlueStar and had not heard of the Culinarian. I went to BlueStar's site and got the names of some local distributors. There were only two within a reasonable distance from me, and they were owned by the same company.

I got a quote from that dealer and wanted to validate the price by getting a quote from another dealer. It's the same thing I do when purchasing a car, doing remodeling, or any other sizable expenditure. Shopping around is a standard practice for most, I'm sure.

I called a few online and remote brick and mortar stores and they told me the same thing; BlueStar prohibited them from giving me a quote because they were not in my region. The best they could do as allude to another product that might be in the same price range.

Certainly this is how BlueStar attempts to control pricing, and I understand why they want to do that, but Apple is able to do the same thing while not restricting your retail purchase options. If I prefer not to shop at the Apple Store, I can still buy a MacBook Pro from Best Buy, Amazon, etc and the price will be within a few dollars of each other. What recourse would I have had if my local dealer had been a jerk and I still wanted to buy a BlueStar? Drive or fly to another state and purchase it? Sorry, but I shouldn't be made to jump through hoops and it really rubbed me the wrong way.

While I was definitely willing to spend the money on a premium product, I didn't want to throw money away and I didn't want to get taken advantage of. With Capital, I was able to call several different sources and verify that I was getting a reasonable price. When I say that it was a matter of principal for me, it's because I didn't appreciate BlueStar artificially limiting my options. Ultimately, I ended up buying the Culinarian from the same local dealer that gave me the first BlueStar quote and the cost difference between the Culinarian and BlueStar was negligible.

I was ready to buy a BlueStar when I first started calling around and, had the remote dealers I called been able to quote me a price in line with what the local dealer gave me, I would probably have a BlueStar in my kitchen today. Since that didn't happen, I ended up discovering the Culinarian and researching both products more extensively over several weeks, on this site and others, as well as checking them out in person at the dealer. There were, and still are, some things I preferred about the BlueStar (primarily the grates and the appearance to a lesser extent), but overall I preferred the Culinarian, and BlueStar's sales policy played a role in that.

Hi jsch,

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I can see how that seems like trying to control prices. Sounds like you couldn't validate the pricing with your normal process.

I see things a bit differently having been in sales for a decade or so. Very long story short, the OEM can be the loser when resellers battle each other endlessly for nothing but a low price. The VAR (value added reseller) is supposed to be "value added." When they just battle on price they aren't adding value and some expect all the sales and support to come from the OEM. So the OEM feels price pressure because the VAR is selling on price and not value and on top of it the reseller doesn't even buffer the OEM from the customer. It's a lose-lose for the OEM.

One way to combat that is to disallow the "fly by night" resellers and their practices. Call it what you will, and I love cheap internet retailers just as much as the next guy, but its hard to sustain a business when resellers treat your market place like an Arabian bazaar.

Of course I don't KNOW that any of this actually applies to Bluestar-- I do not purport to know any specifics there. Only that I can imagine many legitimate scenarios that would cause Bluestar to do what they are doing.

The real irony of course is that you said the price was essentially the same as the CC. You had a validated price that was ultimately acceptable to you in your hand but you chose the vendor that just simply hasn't gotten to that point because of current market conditions.

That's fine! You chose what was best for you. I'm just not sure I would say that BS is fixing prices (which is illegal, btw.)

Just my thoughts!

-Stooxie

@alexr....I agree with you, I got 5 5/8" from furthest ports, and I most certainly agree with your other observations like angles of flame, and only the outermost couple of ports on the tips are that far apart, the rest falling even closer together. However, I do think that is splitting hairs, both burners are amazing. I just wanted to make sure the record was set straight that Bluestar burners are not even close to 8" wide (that amounts to about 33% exaggeration)

@amcook....I understand that you probably just remember wrong...hey we all make mistakes :) I just wanted to make sure it was corrected, and I suppose that if it was me making the statement, I would have said something along the lines of "if memory serves me correct, the diameter of the bluestar is 6" " However this also brings up food for thought that maybe you current state of mind is in fact slightly biased towards your most recent purchase? I am not saying this in a negative way, I think it is pretty much normal human nature.

Now having said all that....The culinarian is an amazing machine!!! If i was buying a new range today I would seriously consider it.

It has many advantages over the Bluestar, some of them are slight, some of them are fairly major. To be honest the biggest thing that would hold me back from buying it(and I know some people will think this is ridiculous) but I do not think it is a particularily attractive stove. The Bluestar looks industrial....it could have been pretty much plucked from a restaurant. The Capital looks like a hybrid between a 1950's era retro residential range and a commercial unit. This of course is purely subjective, and in the eyes of the beholder so to speak. The industrial look of the Bluestar also extends into the burner assembly's, with everything being cast iron the way a good work horse should be.

I would like to thank all of you for your input and great advice. I know I was being a nervous nellie but thanks to all of your posts I feel much better about my decision. This forum is really great and very helpful. It is nice to be able to get honest opinions from people who have purchased appliances that you are considering but have not had the opportunity to try out or even see on display. I live in an area where all you really have are the big box stores and they do not offer higher end appliances. We will be starting our remodel in June and I know I will be looking to the forum for advice in the future. But until then I will be taking care of puppies as my beautiful English Bulldog will be delivering within the next few days. So I will be very busy for the next 10 weeks and loving every minute of it.