Return to the Appliances Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
quick cc adjustment help!!

Posted by breezygirl (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 19, 12 at 17:22

The local appliance repair guy is here to adjust my CC simmer. I think he's an idiot. He started with adjusting the screws at the knob, despite my telling him there needs to be an adjustment upstream somehow to do a more gross adjustment before doing the fine tinkering with the anorexic screwdriver at the knob.

BUT!!!!! I can't find the right words or terms to use to describe it to him!! Can someone please tell me what to tell this bozo?????!


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

He has to adjust the "Air Shutter", Breezy.

It has to be ajdusted so the flame has a minimum tendency to "Hop Around" (flicker), when trying to adjust the simmer for minimun. He should adjust the simmer down, look at the flame and see if it is hopping around a bit, if it is, the flame will go out before the simmer can be set lower, so He would want to adjust the shutter to minimize hopping, then try setting the simmer lower..

Once its set, turn up the flame all the way and make sure you have a nice clean blue flame.

Somebody posted the whole procedure, but knowing you are in a hurry, I didn't have time to find it, Sorry

But do find that post, as I'm going from memory and these ram chips are fully "Aged" (LOL)

Good Luck!!!

Gary


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Thanks Gary!

So to be clear, procedure should be:

1. Adjust air shutter first
2. Screwdriver adjustment at the knob afterwards

Yes?


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Yes!


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Too late. He's gone. Said my air shutters did NOT need to be adjusted. Then told me I'd never get a simmer out of the CC. I'm so fuming mad right now that I better stop typing or I'll get in trouble. I'm the kind of mad where I get reeeeeaaaaalllllll quiet.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Wow - me thinks it is time for Joey and Bob to get the bus fueled up and hit the road.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

If he needed you to tell him how to adjust it, then you didn't need him adjusting it.

It's hard to keep up with the CC simmer threads - did your guy have Joey's cheat-sheet in hand? I'd have thought that would spell it out.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

It does -- but truthfully, that cheat sheet didn't tell me much that I didn't learn in HS auto-mechanics. That is, I'm no mechanic or appliance repairman (and prior to this episode in life I had no idea they were in any way related but they seem to be), but I don't think it is really exotic stuff; he should have known this already.

Breezy: CALL CAPITAL for crying out loud .... this is just nuts that you've been waiting so long, so fruitlessly.

And who the @#$% cares what the tech's random opinion about the likelihood of achieving a simmer is: his task is to follow the rule book. Ours is to pronounce random judgments ;)

Geesh.

I am so sorry that you are still dealing with this....


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Good question, but I think we know the answer to that one, foodonastump.

Kinda sad how some of these service companies are all too anxious to grab the warranty service dollars, and they could care less whether they fix the thing or not, and none of them smart enough to know you "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".The tech was not the least bit prepared for the task that awaited him.

I recall where a poster gave an Elux a rating of 1, on a scale of 1 to 5, (1 being the worst). She changed service companies and redid her rating to a 4, (would have been a 5) except for the prior experience.

Sure hopes everything works out fine, it has to be a PITA to not be able to simmer.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

I am lost for words ..... :(

Breeze please give me a call, if you give me a call your range will be fixed within 5 working days.


 o
Having noneofit

That's our man, Trevor. Thanks for sticking by us hapless consumers.

Honestly, it's not as if O, where Breezy lives, is the middle of Nunavut -- there are probably 20 million people living within a 2 hour drive of you, at least, no? I am really hard-pressed to believe there are no competent service techs among those 20mil. And if so, well gosh, someone on this forum must be hurting for work, no...?


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Oh, my gosh, no! There are not 20 million people living in the whole state of Washington, let alone within 2 hours of Breezy!! :) I think there are only around 7 million in the state. We are, however, fairly civilized and there should be plenty of competent techs around to help her out. Hopefully one will respond to her soon. She has waited for this fix far too long.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

I am still building my kitchen so I don't need to do it yet, but my CC will need to be adjusted soon. It is installed and operational, but I only use it for emergencies. Most of the burners are totally out of tune, and there is nothing like a simmer. I will have a go at adjusting it myself, but I might need to call in a service tech. If anyone knows a good service company in south WA I would appreciate any recommendations.

gharborwa, I am in Gig Harbor too - not sure from your post if you have used a service engineer, but if you have a recomendation that would be greaat.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Really, gharborwa? Even if you include the greater Vancouver part?

Isn't it amazing how miserable incompetent technicians can make one's life? I hope you-all find a good name to share.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Hi Breezy

I just had my third adjustment on Monday.

On the first adjustment I was told that the air shutter did not need to be adjusted and that to have no clicking on simmer the range would have to be taken apart which I didn't want. An attempt was made to lower the simmer but the heat was still very intense. It was suggested that my expectations were perhaps unrealistic due to the intensity of the burners.

On the second adjustment, with Joey's information in hand, and a screw driver I provided, air shutters were adjusted and the flame was only able to be lowered to level 2 before clicking was back. Joey was called from my home by the technician and new spark modules were sent out. There was no noticeable difference in simmer capabilities after the second visit.

This past Monday, the technician was out again. The range was taken apart, new spark modules installed, the simmer adjusted as far down as it could go. It appears to have lowered the simmer level and now I do not get any clicking on simmer. I haven't been able to test it properly yet and I will report back once I am able to do so. Unfortunately the technician had to remove the door to the small oven to put back the kick plate and now the door to this oven is skewed and does not line up with the main oven. The service centre will send the technician out again to see why the door isn't properly aligned.

The technician commented that I am the most labour intensive service call he has ever performed. This is before his having to return to adjust the oven door.

I do believe that getting a lower simmer is possible. I also believe that service centres that handle CC simmer adjustment calls need to better equip their technicians with information to help them understand the nature of the problem and the step wise approach to dealing with it. Capital has made this information available so now IMHO it is up to the service centers to ensure that the technicians are properly trained. If a service centre at this point falls short then also IMHO Capital needs to remove them from the list of authorized centers and train a new centre. Breezy you should not have had to tolerate an authorized technician telling you that air shutters didn't need to be adjusted when Capital clearly directed that they do. I understand your frustration and disappointment at having to now wait once again for this issue to be resolved. And I very much hope that it can be resolved quickly for you with an acceptable outcome.

My service technician was very experienced and worked very hard at trying to lower the simmer but it was I who kept insisting that the expectation of tight blue match head flames on simmer was not unrealistic according to Capital. I suspect we are at about 8 to 10 hours of simmer adjustment service to date.
Hopefully with some information, parts and a proper screw driver in hand the technicians will be able to do the adjustment much more efficiently for all new CC owners who require their service to optimize the functioning of their beautiful new ranges and cooktops.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Just a theory, but based on all that's been written I'm really starting to think that those who got a low simmer are simply lucky. Lucky that their tech managed to tweak their particular range lower than it was ever truly designed to simmer. I think the sooner we acknowledge that and stop calling all these techs incompetent, the sooner Capital will address the issue, or at least stop selling a dream. Wuddaya think?


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

ecranny, someone else from GH! Nice to know. I don't have the CC, came sOOoo close, but ended up with the Wolf (great simmer, btw!) I have had Thompson Appliance in Tacoma the one time I have needed service so far. They were great, but it was a simple adjustment. They also worked on my fan, but that's it so far.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

A properly designed range should be able to be repaired by any serviceperson, any given day, in a single visit (if they don't need to order parts of course).

A manufacturer has no control over these service companies (aside from firing them). If the range is that temperamental and/or difficult to fix, this simmer issue is going to cost Capital a fortune.

Or, as foodonastump theorized: are these service companies that wholly incompetent or are they trying to fix something that can't be fixed to start with?

I think it's unfair how the service techs are called everything but god-fearing, as it might not be their fault. Anyone ever think of that?


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

While I agree some techs need better guidance that is 100% correct, we should also note that sometimes we have two sides to a story, as I found out to my embarrassment on Friday when I called Capital to rip them a new one.

Capital are addressing the issue, to slowly for my liking but never the less addressing it they are. What they intend to do in the end I don't know.

But do we can see a trend here, people who are persistent like mangiamo and aliris19 do end up with a simmer that works and I applaud the for sticking it out. Should they have to be persistent no, should they need a service call in the first place no.

All I am saying is, in a number of cases the calling for the firing squads might be the wrong coarse of action.

If you have or you think you have problem with your simmer burner CALL CAPITAL if you are one of my customers call me, you might be surprised at the end result.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

I've been following the cc simmer adjustment threads over the recent months. After much back and forth between BS and CC, I chose to go with the manual CC, 36", 6 burner. My appliance dealer already has it and instal will be in a couple of weeks.

In anticipation of the instal and setup, does anyone have CC/Joey's adjustment procedure that I could provide to our dealer/installer ahead of time? I'm passionate about cooking and after using the same GE electric stove for the past 26 years, I'm so looking forward to the new CC (and kitchen!)

Thanks for the help,
Steve


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

I've been unable to find an hour to concentrate and write in the past couple of days. More happened after I posted April 19 at 19:03, including a phone call from Mr. Kalsi. I'm out of town again all day today, but might be able to post late tonight. It's a complicated mess.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

i am on the fence about which range to buy. i like the cc possibilities. i have researched their prices and compared them to wolfs. cc is a little cheaper but not much for the all gas and about the same for the dual fuel. is it worth the extra $400 to not have this type of headache? i am thinking it is. The simmer problem seems like an ongoing issue. the cc has been out long enough to have this issue resolved. why should anyone have to wait for trevor to be the middle man? i could understand it the difference of the range prices were significant. but to have the prices be so close and have consistent issues with cc is not a great selling point.
@gharborwa do you like your decision with the wolf?


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

I've got a CC on order myself (thanks Trevor!) but am reading these threads with great interest to try and prepare myself if I have problems. Thanks to everyone for contributing information.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Hi Everyone

The instructions that smshelton asked for that Joey sent me are on a PDF file. Is it possible to post a PDF file? If not then I would be happy to forward to your e-mail address.

MM


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Mangiamo, thanks for the offer to post/email the instructions. I believe you'd need to save the pdf as a jpg file in order to post as a picture. If you'd like to email it to me it's just my GW user name plus at gmail dot com.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

@Sue2012. Yes, I am very happy. I was really conflicted at first and wished I had bought the CC, but have been extremely happy with my Wolf. Since all these issues with the simmer have come up, I have noticed how much I use my simmer. And the high has been plenty for me. Sometimes more is not better!


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Trevor -- funny post from 4/21. And spot on as far as I understand, too. Capital is working on this - slowly, seemingly, but I'm willing to believe it's a complicated, difficult, far-flung matter. Glad Capital's still making do with just one. ;)

It is incumbent, IMHO, on customers experiencing a problem to make that problem known directly to Capital. This is a link to Capital's CS. Trevor is breath-takingly effective in wrenching assistance for his customers. Y'all know how to contact him: I believe if you click on his name it goes to the page with his email. His business is called Eurostoves, which is googleable (I just had to write out that word). By implication I understand in the past he has been effective at garnering help for people who are not his customers as well. He seems ready to assist even if you didn't buy from him originally; I'm guessing it can't hurt to try. If it were me, I'd give that second route a try as well.

Purchasing a range seems to be an emotionally loaded event. I hadn't understood this previously, but am comfortable with this reality now. What I hadn't quite appreciated previously is how dangerous and powerful, even cheap-o stoves, can be. I had a GE for years that clicked without producing any flame; the CPSD actually took a report on it. I'm lucky to still have a house I suppose. So this level of emotional involvement may be appropriate, even. FWIW I'm OK with it, OK with the purchase, still; nevertheless I'm looking forward to the final fix that Capital has stated they are working on, making a simmer plate available to get that last bit of the way to low-low.

Having said this, I can understand why someone might opt out of all this drama. There are seemingly several choices of excellent ranges out there in approximately the same price range. When it is so hard to choose between them, usually that just means they are functionally similar and either option will be fine. If you're in the market for a range and all this broo-haha distresses you, letting Capital know this might help everyone in shaving down the time we must all spend dealing with this drama. Calling Capital under these circumstances would be a public service even if it doesn't benefit you directly (say, if you decide to go with a different range).

It's an intricate dance here, as has been ably pointed out, between consumer, installer, repairer, utilities supply, manufacturer, engineering, sales -- lots of places to go wrong, lots of places for miscommunication, competence and even incompetence. It's a new range, from a small company. Limitations happen. At the same time, that everyone all around remains so responsive for me personally, speaks volumes and is hugely valuable to me as a consumer. YMMV. We are all different! I think it's a little exciting to be part of the development of this range but I can see how some may be less enthused.

If for some reason someone wants and cannot obtain a copy of the tech service report about setting the air shutters and then clickers (wrong word, sorry), call Capital and ask for Joey. I'm sure he'll furnish the document to anyone having trouble obtaining it.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Busy family life and crazy children have kept me from finding the time to post my follow-up. I've been working on this for two days, but still haven't been able to write everything I need to so I'll break it up into two posts. This will describe the service call. I hope to follow-up tonight with the remainder, which will include the aforementioend call from Surjit Kalsi.

____________________________

In more detail, here's how the service call played out. (Reminder that it took the tech 14 business days to set up the appointment with me and 17 business days before he showed up. This contributes to my ire.)

Tech came in and started to adjust the burners at the knobs with a screwdriver (he had one that fit) despite me telling him something else was supposed to be adjusted first. He told me he read the service bulletin describing how to adjust the simmer, which CLEARLY states that the first item of business before the knob adjustment is the air shutter adjustment.

During the first 30 minutes, he told me that the burners will NEVER be able to simmer because the flames are just too hot with too many "holes" (his words) in the burners. I pointed to the new spark modules sent specifically to be put on during the service call, but he said I didn't need them and that they wouldn't make any difference.

Then I mentioned that the regulator was in the bottom drawer under the rangetop if he needed it. He casually questioned me over the next 30 minutes as he continued to use the screwdriver in the knobs about why the regulator wasn't put on at install, who installed it, etc. Told me over and over that the CC will never be able to simmer.

Towards the end of the call, I pulled up Trevor's Youtube video on the ipad showing the air shutter adjustment to show him. He looked for a minute and remarked that my rangetop didn't need this despite him telling me that my flames were too high even at the lowest setting.

At the conclusion, he directed me to get the regulator put on and call him again if I need him.

Then my post on Apr 19 at 19:03

"Too late. He's gone. Said my air shutters did NOT need to be adjusted. Then told me I'd never get a simmer out of the CC. I'm so fuming mad right now that I better stop typing or I'll get in trouble. I'm the kind of mad where I get reeeeeaaaaalllllll quiet."

I was completely irritated that this man, who took 17 flippin days to come to my house, didn't do the proper adjustments as directed or install the parts as directed. I felt he wasted about 90 minutes at my house when I needed to be doing other things.

When I phoned Bob at Capital a few minutes later, he told me that the regulator needed to be installed. I set up install appointment with the HVAC company that hooked up the gas to the CC. At that point it was 5pm, a very busy time at my house with DD waking up from nap, dinner-making, fussy kids time starting, etc. Plus, I was cranky and didn't feel like thinking about the simmer issue/service call any longer. I know I should have come back to update after my 19:03 post.
___________________

More later. I know now that the regulator seems to be very important in the business of sorting out the simmer.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Hi Breezy

I'm sorry that you are going through all of this. It is stressful enough that our burners are not functioning to our satisfaction but it is maddening when the service technician insists that there is nothing to be done.

I was told, quite respectfully, that my expectations were too high. And perhaps they are. I was also told, as you were that the CC could never meet my criteria for simmer because of all the BTUs and that this expectation should never have been promised. And perhaps he is right. He was hesitant on the first call to adjust my air shutter and I did not force the issue.

I have, however, been able to achieve a simmer. A very high simmer (ragu has required constant monitoring and has reduced significantly). But none the less a simmer as opposed to an almost boil with lots of splatter that I had before the installation of the new modules but after the tweaking of air shutters and knobs. The simmer definitely isn't perfect but it is a simmer.


It is my hope that if they change out the spark modules you will get a lower simmer than you have now. They can adjust the air shutter at the same time. I found that adjusting the air shutter made little difference to my simmer intensity but it should be done so that no stone is left unturned.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Thank you, Mangiamo.

Sorry my follow-up post is taking so long. My father was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer yesterday. My life has been turned upside down.

I'll get the post done soon.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Breezy

I am so sorry to hear this. A cyber hug and a prayer for your family,

Mary


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Oh I'm so sorry Breezy. Don't worry we can wait .... Family first.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Breezy..thoughts and prayers for you and your family. Please take care of yourself too!


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Early the next morning after my service call, I answered the phone to hear Surjit Kalsi's voice. Assuming this was a "sorry for your trouble" call, I was a bit taken aback by the conversation that took place. He was very animatedly concerned that I was misrepresenting my situation here on GW because my regulator was not installed.

We went round and round as I explained to him: that I didn't know anything like a regulator existed (never had a gas cooker before) until I found a bubble-wrapped metal goodie in the bottom of my rangetop drawer and asked DH what it was; DH, who has sold and worked with commercial restaurant equipment including gas cookers for 20 years, didn't seem to think it's lack of install was an issue; the HVAC guy who hooked up the gas to the CC never asked about a regulator; when I've mentioned the lack of regulator here on at least two occasions the feedback seemed to be that it didn't matter if I lived in a suburban area on a stable natural gas line; the time the rangetop was installed at the end of the construction process and moving back into the house was total chaos; and the fact that I simply don't know what I'm doing when it comes to gas.

Surjit, in return, detailed his professional history with gas burners over the years, showing me that he would know better than anyone the importance of the regulator placement. He had some choice words for those folks both IRL and on GW who failed to advise me that the regulator is a critical component of the CC's simmering ability.

I also summarized the service call for him so he could understand that the tech's failure to perform as directed by the factory (i.e. not installing the new spark modules or following burner adjustment instructions from Joey) and his telling me my rangetop would never simmer left me frustration. Surjit asked for the tech's name and phone number to speak with him personally.

Eventually he softened, promising to watch my situation personally to ensure I was satisfied with my CC. He told me that if need be he'd send a factory tech to my house to make burner adjustments or even replace the unit if the one I own couldn't be adjust to my satisfaction. Also, he requested I post here explaining that my regulator wasn't installed, which I agreed to since I was already planning to do so. Before we hung up, Surjit repeated to me what I've read him say before--that I (and we), as his customer, am his boss and that it is his job to make me happy.

Monday morning my regulator was installed. The drawer in front of it under the rangetop won't shut all the way now so I now have to make arrangement with, and pay for, my cab maker to re-build the drawer box. One more hassle with which to deal.

Meals at my house since then have been quick ones not requiring a long simmer. We've also been gone for many meals this week also with my father's diagnosis and other commitments. I'm hoping to be able to make and simmer some red sauce this week to test the burners. They do seem much tamer now, but really cooking on it will tell the tale. At the very minimum, the tech needs to come back and adjustment the burners again to relieve me of the murderous rage-inducing clicking I hear on low. I'll report back when I've had the chance to experiment.

Bottom line is that Surjit feels the regulator is extremely important to the CC burners performance. I advise any of you having simmer trouble to ensure your regulator is on well before you call the factory to ask for service.

__________________________

Trevor--I'm gathering that you phoned Capital early in the morning on my behalf after my service call and this post. My public apologies if my failure to log back on the night after my frustrating service call to report on my regulator non-installation caused you embarassment with Capital. As I explained above, the fact I'd reported here before that my regulator wasn't installed without anyone mentioning that it was a priority led to me believe this wasn't an issue affecting simmer. Not that I expect anyone here to be in charge of my situation, but it helps explain my mind set. Plus, I was just plain worn out from dealing with that service tech and with this entire situation for so long that I hadn't the fortitude to get back on the Appliances forum again that night when I had family priorities to which to attend. I appreciate your efforts to help a non-customer on the other side of the country.

I also apologize for saying in my OP that I thought the tech was an idiot. Poor word choice in my haste and frustration that he wasn't following factory orders.


 o
Thank you

Aliris (who privately emailed me), Mary, Gbsim, and Michelle,

I appreciate the kind words for me and for my family. We're meeting with a surgeon this week to see if his tumor is operable. Not many are from what I understand, and his tumor is quite large. Pancreatic cancer is nasty.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Best of luck with your Dad, Breezy, I think the fact that you are posting here, is "Above and Beyond the call of Duty" but like all of us here in GW we appreciate your efforts and our
"Prayers, wishes --- etc etc" are with your Dad or as a good Swedish friend of mine says, "May the Light Shine upon Him"!

Gary


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

In my opinion, many of you are being hopelessly misled and wasting your time concerning the Culinarian's ability to truly simmer.

Spark modules and igniters and air shutters and calls from the chair and whatever other "fixes" are just a sleight-of-hand, nothing more than a distraction from the real issue: a single burner head which tried to span too much of a spectrum of BTU and failed.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Breezy,

I've brought up the issue of the regulator a number of times and wondered in writing about its effect on the simmer issues but no one seemed to comment on the possibility the regulator plays a part in this. Of course it does because the simmer adjustments are made at the factory at a certain gas pressure and the burners may not operate the same way when installed without a regulator or with the regulator adjusted to a very different gas pressure (although the gas orifice helps some in this respect). I think that's why my first tech thought I had a regulator issue because all six burners were simmering too high -- it's not as if just a couple of burners were off.

I fault Capital in part for their extremely poor installation drawings and instructions. Why doesn't the rangetop contain multiple tags and notices to install the regulator?

Techs need a very simple checklist to do a correct install and adjustments.

Billy


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

While I don't own a C.C. I think the newer spark module was allowing the flame heads to be set lower, before causing the sparking. So I think that's a good idea. You want to be able to set the flame heads as low as possible, but not so low that the flames 'float' on and off from hole to hole- that's a little too low.

If you have the flames set low, and not so low that they blow out too easily, and the ignitor doesn't spark, then that's it. Perfection. And all that is achieved through adjusting the screw under the knob, the air shutter near the burner, and not having too sensitive of a spark module.

If you want less heat at that point, you have to do what Billy did and modify the number of flame holes in the burner head, change the gas orifice, and readjusting the air shutter.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Hi Alexr

After several adjustments two of my burners "float on and off from hole to hole".
They are my lowest simmering burners. Is there something I should be concerned about? They are not clicking and the technician said to consider myself lucky that I was able to achieve this on two burners.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

mangiamo, There's nothing really wrong with that extremely low setting, it just means that there is so little gas coming in that it can't reach all the holes, or one hole 'steals' the gas from another hole.

Here's a test you should do. Blow out the flames (with your breath) and as long as the ignitor sparks, and the gas re-ignites consistently,(at that super low setting) then you're fine.


 o
RE: quick cc adjustment help!!

Thank you alexr. I will give that a try on all my burners. If I don't get re-ignition then I will speak to the technician. He is coming back next Wednesday for a different issue.

Warm regards

MM


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Appliances Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here