The residual water is normal. ALL dishwashers end the cycle with some residual water in the pump sump. It's impossible for the pump to completely clear the sump area, and the residual water also keeps pump seals from drying out.

Try running a "cleaning" cycle occasionally with no dishes. Add two cups of vinegar to the main wash period if you can figure out when is that during the cycle sequence ... or place a large bowl filled with vinegar in the lower rack at start of the run.

Or use one of the commercial dishwasher cleaning products such as JetDry or Finish cleaner. They're a citric acid solution in a bottle with a wax plug that melts during the heat of the main wash period to release the cleaner.

Dadoes,

Thanks so much, I will try the vinegar cycle tomorrow and report back. Good to know the water in the reservoir is normal.

New dishwashers do not have bad smells spontaneously.

"...foul, strong odor..." Can you describe that better, please? Garbage smell? Sewer smell? Burned-electrical smell?

Is the drain line connected to a garbage disposal or a standard sink drain? Either way, the hose needs a "high loop" to prevent stuff from the sink (or garbage disposal) from going into the bottom of the dishwasher. People have said before that was the cause of their oder. I've had a Miele for 2 years, it has a high loop before being connected to the disposal. There will always be some water left in that bottom sump, but I've never had any smells or oders. Miele does make a dishwasher cleaner that I use about twice a year as preventive maintenance.

Something is wrong on the install and you must be pulling swamp vapors.
The water is normal as you saw above.

You can also try "Tang" to clean your DW - The Appliance Doctor recommends

I started to use the Miele DW soap and wow! Now it is cleaner than ever....

The standing water is normal, the stench is not. I smell a bad install. :).

Thanks so much for taking the time to post this info.

Asolo, I can best describe the odor as a rotten, decaying smell. Perhaps like old food. The filter also had the same smell before I soaked it in bleach water overnight.

I believe I have the high loop. Pic posted below.

The hole in the side of the cabinet where the DW drain hose comes through is at the bottom, hidden from view in the bottom corner. It then ascends, loops up over the wood cradle for the sink, and connects to the garbage disposal.

I'll be contacting the appliance dealer tomorrow. Any other thoughts as to what might be wrong would be truly appreciated!

Lol, TyGuy. I guess you posted at the same time I was posting. Thanks for the levity.

It will be helpful if I can explain to the appliance store owner that the majority opinion seems to be that it's a bad install, since a certified Miele installer that he contracted put it in for me.

I just wonder, if it's not the high loop issue, what it could be...

That's sort of a high loop, but IMO the end of the drain hose where it connects at top of the disposer may be too high in relation to the loop. As you have it, disposal water when the unit is running could get pushed into the dishwasher because it doesn't have to go up very high against gravity to pass by the loop ... a surge into the drain hose and on down into the dishwasher.

Perhaps investigate into replacing the first vertical piece of the drain that comes off the disposer with a T-fitting, connect the dishwasher hose there.

Just a thought ... may not be related to the problem, and can't say how much difference it'd make if so.

Can someone post a pic of a good Miele install.

That might be helpful.

I have diamond and I did the install. There is no high loop requirement in the instructions. The drain hose is also different from older models with that box at the connection end. The Diamond and maybe the other newer models as well use a regular drain house and water connection hose. The instructions also clearly show a hole cut into the floor of the sink base cabinet and up to the drain connection. I'll check the instructions again in the AM

Thanks so much, Deeageaux, Todd, Dadoes.

Before getting into the technical end, I'd suggest running a sani cycle or two if you haven't done that already. When I get any type of smell it usually goes away after one of those. Additionally, don't know which detergent you use but the only one that I've found that does any type of deodorizing with a pleasant after-effect is the Method Smarty tabs in Pink Grapefruit.

I wouldn't use bleach on any parts of a Miele.

Thanks, rococo.

Since I seem to have the high loop and my drain is in the correct position (before the P-trap), I'll try a sani-cycle today and see how it goes. Maybe this is just a fluke that the sani-cycle will fix.

Should I put a bowl of vinegar in, as others have mentioned, during the sani, or in a separate run?

Thanks again.

I don't use vinegar or bleach in the DW. Some swear by vinegar in the washing machine too, but I'm not a fan.

I'd fill up the dw with a complete load and use either Quantum Finish or the Grapefruit Method detergent with sani cycle before going to bed and let it dry overnight. If that's done once or twice and the odor isn't gone, then there likely is something coming from the plumbing. But sani and the right detergent always has solved it for me.

Thanks!

I looked again at the convoluted instruction poster. It shows a hole cut in the floor of the sink base and the extra hose coiled under the sink. Only mentions to coil under the DW the under counter height needs to be a min 34 13/16". Nothing mentioning high loop. I don't have any older model install guides to compare it to. Could be the high loop is not longer needed or shouldn't be used thus there is more water trapped then necessary causing odor.

Thanks for taking the time to do that, Todd.

Maybe the pump isn't strong enough to push the dirty water against gravity to the high loop, so the high loop isn't recommended?

Miele customer service isn't the best. I'll see whether they have a tech specialist I can speak with about the high loop, etc.

Meanwhile, I've run a sani-wash, and I'm waiting to see what happens (it usually takes a couple days for ye stink to develop after I run a load).

how often do you run the DW? The longer between runs the more odor will be produced. If you only run 1-3 times a week this could be a problem.

high loop is prefered since it minimizes stagnant water in the drain hose. You don't want an S shaped drain hose

Here's a crude diagram of how my dishwasher drain hose is connected. The hose comes through the bottom left near the floor, goes up over the left sink drain pipe, then down to the disposal on the right sink.

Thanks so much, fauguy and kerbosch. That diagram is really helpful.

Kerbosch, I may have had a little bit of an "S" curve at the bottom because the drain wasn't pulled tight at the bottom. Are you saying this could create like a p-trap effect? I tried to straighten it out a bit.

It does take a couple days for the smell to develop. With my previous dw, tho, I never pulled any odors regardless of how infrequently I ran it.

I've emailed someone at Miele who is something like a regional manager for service. Hoping to hear back from him today.

Rococo, I found the pink grapefruit Method yesterday, so now I can try that.

Thanks again all for your suggestions. Any other thoughts are always appreciated.

madeline, I usually run a load every night. But when I don't I run rinse and hold. If you aren't running one every night, I'd add the rinse followed by sani for a few weeks. With that and the Method pink grapefruit there should be an improvement -- unless as the guys are suggesting there's an issue with the set up.

While the Miele washers do not need air breaks, an air break can avoid effects such as a full sink being emptied into the garbage disposal and filling it above the height of the peak of the hose line. Then water can drain back into the Miele hose, if not into the dishwasher itself. This could possibly leak some pollution back into the sump.

(I avoid this by using a separate stand pipe for the dishwasher drain.)

My suspicion, however, is that food particles from newly dirtied dishes fall into the small water puddle and slowly rot there between washings.

Also, my impression is that rinse aid should be used, even with low hardness water, to improve odor control. I've noticed with my Optima that post washing odor degrades if the rinse aid has run out.

kas

Thanks, rococo and Kas!

I have a plumber coming for a different issue next week. Should he be able to set up a separate stand pipe for the dw drain, just so I have that base covered?

Rococo, do you run the rinse on non-wash nights specifically to prevent odors? (Wondering if maybe you've had the same problem that I'm having.)

Kas, your theory about rotting food particles makes sense, b/c the smell is exactly the same as that of the filter before I cleaned it. (Gross, I know.)

I never had this problem with my previous DW, but it had a grinder. Do other DWs have different setups, preventing rotting food particles from sitting in a water puddle?

Thanks again.

Just to say ... my experience has been that running rinse/hold *causes* odors rather than lessening them. A single rinse leaves smutzy water in the pump sump and wet/dirty dishes in the machine. On the other hand, any water left in the sump after a full cycle is residual final rinse water which should be clean and not a source of odors.

Since abandoning the use of rinse/hold more than 30 years ago, I don't get odors leaving scraped-but-not-rinsed dishes to sit sometimes for up to 3+ days.

I use the standard Method Smarty tabs that are unscented. I run the unit every night and use the Pots/Pans mode. I also use the Miele brand Rinse Aid and have the dispenser set to 1 (can be set between 1-6, and 3 is default). With this combination, and the high loop that is in my diagram above, I've never had any oders in the 2 years of using the Diamante Plus. I check the bottom filter once a week, and there is rarely anything there. Every 4-6 months I use a bottle of the Miele Dishwasher Cleaner, as preventive maintenance, and it does a good job of cleaning.

Ditto Dadoe on the rinse/hold *causing* odors, not stopping them.

Just an update. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me.

I've bought and run a sani-wash load using the Method Pink Grapefruit. I've done the vinegar thing. Right now the DW smells great, but it usually takes a couple of days for the odor to develop.

Meanwhile, waiting for the Miele repair person to contact me.

I pulled the filter and checked mine last night. There is water like yours and there was some small bits of food particles. Did not smell. Although It finished running a load about 18hrs before.

I can't test the two day thing since it pretty much always has dirty dishes in it. When there is dirty dishes in it obviously will have an odor that will build over time. I scrape but do not rinse my stuff. Wasn't as hard to break the habit that we had with rinsing the dishes since we were without a DW and sink for like 8 months for my remodel so it was like starting over :). I just started using the DW a few weeks ago. I have started using Miele Tabs and using 1/2. No rinse aid or salt. I have a whole house water softener and I just tested the water again and its at like 2 grains vs 28 without the softner.

Kas,

You use Tabs and rinse aid. I thought based on the directions that rinse aid should not be used with Tab detergents? I set the unit to not dispense any rinseaid. I do get white spots on silverware, plastic and glasses. Not sure I should add rinse aid.

todds,

If you are using the Miele tab (or Method Smarty tab) you should use the liquid Miele rinse aid (I am). The "tab" option on the dishwasher will turn off the rinse aid dispenser if you are using a tab with built-in rinse aid (like Finish Quantum). After testing and trying different detergents over the past two years in my Miele, I find that half of a Method Smarty tab works best (cleans better than the Miele tab, and isn't has harsh as Finish Quantum). I do like the Miele rinse aid best since it is doesn't have a chemical smell. I use the built-in water softener as my water is around 7 grains. If you have a whole home softener and it is 2 grains at the hot water line coming into the dishwasher, then you really don't need to use the built-in one.

I have a brand new Miele Future Lumen that has smelled bad since install on a major remodel a couple months ago. I noticed the smell soon as it was put in but assumed it would be gone by the time I moved in. Well, I just moved in this weekend and the machine still has the odor. I’ve run a couple cycles with already clean dishes just trying to flush its system, but the odor persists.. I’ve run a couple loads of already clean dishes. I would describe the scent as a combination of metal, plastic and sewer gas. The piping emerges from the bottom of the machine and arches up yo the disposal. The disposal has no odor.

cant see the back of the drain hose but it cant be even with the disposal connection - it has to be definately higher. Arching up is not enough

I have had rotten smelling dihes since I about six months after I got my miele dishwasher. I have had it four years. tried everything and it would smell worse. I finally figured it out. I live in a soft water area and i was using too much dishwasher soap. since i cut it down to hardly any my dishes dont smell anymore . the dishwasher used to smell also.like a wet dog.I also run it on pots and pans like my previous miele