... AND how (if at all) is the Miele speed oven different than the Electrolux and Advantium as far as functionality?

mojavean- LOVE it! Thanks!

mojojean - that is great

I had a basic range
It cooked and baked just fine
It had no bells nor whistles
And was slow as syrup in winter

Now I have 2 ovens on the wall
One will convect and bake and howl like a Wolf
The other claims to be speedy
And I sure want to play

My ovens were just installed
and
Now must get over cold feet
to just pluck something into them

So help me break the ice
Without breaking the ovens
and just try cooking and then
I can help with your answer

OK - not going to get rich on my lyrics
Wolf E series convection oven
GE advantium 240

Now, just have to give them a whirl!

You can watch the great potato race 2LF's where Mojavean and I had a baked potato contest.

As far as the differences, The Electrolux will not broil, and it's inside is slightly smaller, alto we have not found that to be a problem.

The Elux operates as any microwave, just enter the time and hit start, the miele is a little different there but nothing you could not get used to.

The particular model that mojavean has does not have the "master chef" or whatever they call it, so Mojavean sets the parameters, time, temp, amount of nuking, etc etc, Whereas with the Elux I just selected potatoes, it asked me how many and it set everything, ie preheat time, temp, cooking time, and how much microwaving it would do.

Now when one has the talents that my friend Mojavean has, that's not a big deal and for those of you that don't, you can pay the extra money for the master chef model.

Anyway, to sum it up, The Miele will broil, is slightly bigger inside, and just takes some learning (not difficult) as far as using it as a microwave, and is not as automated unless you spend the extra bucks for the Master chef model.

Oh one other important thing, The Miele does not use a turntable like the Elux (for microwaving and speed cooking)
((You can remove the turntable if you are not doing that)) but if you have an aversion to turntables, then you know which way to go???

HTH's

Gary

Actually I do have the master chef model, Gary. They didnt make the stripped down version when we got ours. I just dont use the options, preferring to figure out what I want on my own. I would buy another masterchef if I had it to do over though. Not for the features so much as I don't want knobs sticking out of my wall of Mieleness.

mojavean, love your ditty/poem!!!!

we also have the miele m/c and i agree with you moja, i love not having the dials, it is so easy clean and when u have teenagers....fill in the blank

we use ours every single day, multiple times and i have used it on multiple modes and have used the m/c modes and have been really pleased with it. this oven does it all!!!

would buy again in a heartbeat..

one thing it does not do well, toasts. you have to use the broil feature and flip whatever u are toasting. we are not big on toasting, usually just on weekends, so not a big deal here. we do have a 2 slice toaster that i put in cab and we do have a toaster oven and microwave downstairs in laundry room that we use occasionally. these were leftover from remodel and what was used when we had no appliances in kitchen...

go with the miele, you won't be disappointed!!!!

Ok, I just read through the Miele User Manual (not the master chef).

How long does the oven take to preheat? There's a Tip on page 29 saying:
"Most foods can be placed directly in the cold oven, so heat used during the heating phase can also be used to begin cooking"

Which foods would these be? I'm thinking frozen foods?

Also, using frozen chicken nuggets as a guide.... I usually preheat my toaster oven for 5 minutes let's say and then I bake for 13 minutes. In the Miele, I suppose I would use Convection Bake (or combo bake?) for these types of items? Would the time then be faster than the 13 minutes?

Also, DH sometimes makes little sliders or steak sandwiches and I notice he adds cheese and puts them in the toaster oven open face style to brown/melt cheese. Is there a setting that would do this well in the Miele?

From what I'm understanding a Speed Oven can totally take the place of a toaster oven--- except for toasting!! Is that correct?

Thanks so much-
2LF

We have a toaster, not a toaster oven, but a 4-slice Breville and use that for toast. Exception would be when we do Eggs Anna - which is just Eggs Benedict made with small steaks - for large family gaggles. For the English Muffins I can fit a full, 1/2-size commercial baking sheet under the broiler of the Miele. I usually figure 7 minutes of broiler preheat, then slide the muffins in for 2 to 2.5 minutes. You can toast a couple dozen at a time that way. But for just my wife and myself, our toaster is far more convenient and quick.

Some foods lend themselves VERY well to combination bake mode, which is microwave and convection mode mixed. The way that works is you set your convection temp and the microwave power both. You have to use a microwave and bake safe dish to use this mode. Casseroles come out great and cook very quickly using this method. I make a Parmesan and sour cream scalloped potato dish using combination mode and it gets done in half the time at least. Marie Calender frozen pot pies come out nicely browned and fully heated on the inside in around 18 minutes from fully frozen using the same method. I do not like chicken nuggets and haven't tried them, but I do a dry rub hotwings dish that combination mode works great on. When I want things really browned on top sometimes I will switch to broil mode right at the end and let the top get bubbly.

One thing I will say as a word of warning, and that is when you do it the speed oven way, you are putting all of your eggs in one basket. For us, the Miele is our everyday oven. That does not mean that we bake in it everyday, but when I do have to bake something it usually goes in the Miele as first choice because it heats up fast and gives us so many options. Our other oven is our Bluestar range, which bakes very nicely, but is very large and takes far longer to preheat. But when the Miele is baking, forget about somebody coming up with a cup of coffee to reheat or some frozen thing to thaw. They will either have to use a potholder or an oven glove because the shelves are hot.

A few more idiosyncrasies: the Miele has a defrost program, but it is worthless. For some reasons the Germans are not in a hurry to defrost things. What the oven does in defrost mode is turn on the convection heater very slightly, taking it up to maybe 90 degrees or less, and it just lets the food warm up naturally using that. It is NOT a microwave defrost.

But you can get around it by just using the microwave function, but setting the power at 40% or less and then treating it like you would a regular microwave defrost cycle, you know, around 5 minutes for a pound of meat. It works just like a US microwave, cycling the power off and on.

There is no turntable in the Miele. This alarmed me somewhat until I used the machine. It does not need a turntable. The antenna feed rotates instead, right up in the top of the unit. You can watch the microwave energy being stirred around the dish and it heats as evenly as any turntable model I have ever used.

One more thing: They are very expensive to fix. The parts ain't cheap. I had a $480 bill when ours broke. Get the longest warranty you can get because you never can tell when the thing will break. They are very sophisticated, well-built, ovens, but that sophistication comes at a price. When our oven failed, it was caused because there is an RPM counter! on the exhaust fan that will prevent the heater elements from energizing if the speed is too low. If the bearings in the fan get gunk in them, the fan runs just a bit too slowly and then only the microwave will work. I am an experienced technician with many years fixing electronics and I almost never have to call a repair tech to fix my appliances, but that speed oven kicked my butt. I could not believe there would be a rev counter on the fan, but that is what it was.

SO, if you like the idea of condensing a bunch of functions into one box, which is what we wanted (I like counter space free and so does my wife) I think a speed oven is a cool choice. But in order for anyone else to make that call they have to determine whether their needs will be served by the one-box solution. Ours are, your's may not be.

If I do get the Miele, and then find I need the microwave at the same time I'm using the Miele otherwise, I will get a small cheap microwave and put it on a pantry shelf. I will already have oven/warming drawer in the range plus combi steam oven, so I think I'm leaning toward just a microwave.

Could I possibly get more info on what I asked above? Here it is again:

"How long does the oven take to preheat? There's a Tip on page 29 saying:
"Most foods can be placed directly in the cold oven, so heat used during the heating phase can also be used to begin cooking"

Which foods would these be? I'm thinking frozen foods?

Also, using my kid's frozen chicken nuggets as a guide.... I usually preheat my toaster oven for 5 minutes let's say and then I bake for 13 minutes. In the Miele, I suppose I would use Convection Bake (or combo bake?) for these types of items? Would the time then be faster than the 13 minutes?

Also, DH sometimes makes little sliders or steak sandwiches and I notice he adds cheese and puts them in the toaster oven open face style to brown/melt cheese. Is there a setting that would do this well in the Miele?"

question 1: 350 convection, about 8 mins. its quick, i cannot get banana bread recipe together before oven is heated...just to give you and idea

question 2: any foods, really

question 3: most probably, lots of factors not mentioned in question - degree of oven, type of nuggets..you can use combo feature, so would be done sooner.

question 4: broil

as far as the nugget question, i would just bake them but you can combo bake them, just use lower wattage on micro part, you dont want them to be soggy. the nice thing about miele sp oven is that there is a "favorite" setting and once you find your "sweet spot" with repetitive foods, you can store it and then just recall it and it will set automatically. neat feature.

as i said before, this is a great appliance, IMHO

Thanks so much for all the help! : )

For my micro-convection oven, I just add a few more minutes to the time if I don't preheat first. It's experimental based on whatever I'm doing.

Maiden voyage on my Advantium tonight
It worked great - only used the MW portion but it reheated very quickly and evenly.
i think 2 Fishies is heading to the Miele but had to let peeps know that my new oven works!

Thanks a2gemini! I need under counter install which is why I am looking at the Miele now but still good to gather info : )

5:18.27 - that's when I started the "rapid heat" on my lower-end Miele. I can never remember what the names of these two stupid variants are. Know, though, that the variants are significantly different beyond mere buttons on the front I think. My lower-end one has no memory, no way to program different configurations of, say, heat and microwaves. You can tell it to turn on and stay on for a certain amount of time; it will figure out when to turn on in order to turn off at a set time, cooking for x long (if you follow), but that's it. The handy-dandy "here's-two-potatos-you-figure-out-the-rest" doesn't happen.

I think it does combine an extra, electric oven and a MW in one appliance. That can be good in terms of space and the like. I don't see it as ha...

5:22.07 is when it just chimed. That's 3min 40 sec I think... That's just to 325-degrees, what you'd want for 350-degree convection, if you follow (generally you're encouraged to cook at 25-degrees lower for about the same amount of time).

So that's what the rapid-heat does: pretty fast! What I was saying above was, I don't see it as having changed my life particularly. Mostly, I like having a second oven and I like having a smaller oven than my 36" one. It's done a lovely job with chicken and cookies. It's small-ish in dimensions on paper but in reality, very roomy: go figure. I'm not sure it's really obviously speeded up our cooking experience particularly...maybe, but not appreciably.

I have mine under-counter and I do like that. I don't love the glass tray: I'm always sure I'll break it by leaving it out ajar...very nervous-making!

Thanks, aliris! I was thinking about the Chef instead of the Master Chef. So, there's NO programming on the Chef?? LIke for popcorn or whatever? That's good to know. I'll check the manual too...

I don't know- the speed oven intrigues me and there are definite pluses but still trying to figure out if it's worth the extra money. Also the Sharp drawer microwave is... a drawer! lol I've heard it's great and easy to lift food in and out of. When the Miele is under counter do you have to bend down for everything?

We are already purchasing 2 30" wall ovens so I wonder if we should just use those... ughhh... So many decisions!

The manual is absolute cr$%. You'd think the writers were not even of a Germanic-language extract but you'd be wrong. There are better manuals with my timex watch.

No programming. I don't know if it matters; I'm slowly getting the hang of using it. Slowly. Though just now I neglected to hit "on" - returned home thinking the casserole would be done: no. Grump. Very annoying. I can't get used to electric, I've always had gas.

Yes, you bend down but I'm used to it. My counters are 1" higher than standard and it's at the top of the lower cabinet, if you follow, just below the countertop. I wouldn't put it any lower.

And I'd heed suggestions to build a narrow drawer right underneath or beside it to house the racks that need switching. Without them in close proximity the utility of the machine takes a dive. If you have to root around for racks it's a nuisance to switch between MW and convection ... though that said I'm not convinced it's all that necessary. The first gen of the machines used a metal rack that was MW compatible but the second gen developed some sort of configuration problem so they could no longer recommend this. However I've done it and lived to tell the tale. But I think you do risk frying the machine. I try to swap the racks out.

Another data point: at 7pm the machine was still warm from its earlier heating-up. It's well-insulated.

Do you have a range as well as those 2 wall ovens? I have a 36" range and the Miele. It's enough for me ... YMMV. My 36" oven is big and the Miele can fit a lot into it. I didn't have any trouble doing the full T-giving and Xmas feasting-thing between these two cavities. So 2 wall ovens, a speed oven and a range could well be over-kill.

As for programming: there is some slight programming in terms of, say, leaving the house at noon, and telling it you want a chicken to cook for 75 minutes and be done at 7pm. It can figure that out. But it won't do something fancy like, say, preheat followed by 2 minutes of MW and 30 minutes of convection-cooking... not sure whether the programmable machine does that sort of thing but this one won't, either implicitly or explicitly.

thanks so much- great info! I know with the Master Chef mojavean demonstrated on youtube how you can program foods like popcorn or other custom foods. I assumed the Chef did this as well, but I guess not from what you're saying...

We'll have a 36" induction cooktop and the double wall ovens- no range . Thinking a 3rd oven may be too much though. Maybe the speed oven would make more sense with a single oven plus the cooktop. How many cubic feet is the Miele? I'll have to check. I don't think I want to give up the double wall ovens though.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

Fishies - that would be my take on it; let the Miele replace a wall oven. Maybe you could do something like design a cabinet space that *could* take a third wall oven if you went for just 2 total, to try it, and if it turned out you couldn't live without the third, you could just remove some doors and pop the oven in... the Miele, at least, is really simple that way, you just make a 24" square I think, cavity, and toss the thing in. ... oh, except mine is 220V. That's a pretty important element, so to speak, of why it's so great. You can get some speed ovens with lower power, I think, maybe even the Miele, I can't remember ... but this works so well, I gather, because it's got so much power. If you can afford not to, I'd definitely go with the 220V. But, that means it's not so easy as just tossing the machine into a hole; you've got to get a dedicated 220V circuit available to that cavity as well.

Which is to say, my recommendation - but of course without knowing anything about how you cook and your needs - is to let the Miele replace one of your 2 wall ovens. Others have found that though it specs out a little small-seeming, for some reason it has good interior functional space and feels large. I've never had a wall oven so can't compare, but I've cooked a 5lb chicken in here without a problem and bought metal cookie sheets that exactly span its wall-divets so I can have three sheets cooking at once (which I never have; two is just fine). I've had to learn how to juggle the hot oven-MW thing -- that was a challenge. But as mentioned, the silicone sheet has taken care of that, plus I've learned to be less fearful of heating up a whole big 36" oven. At first I was very intimidated by that thing!

So yeah, a 3rd oven is a lot -- maybe see if you can set things up so you can try living with 2 but have a way to add a 3rd painlessly if it turns out you really need it?

people always talk about neeing 'MW' while the oven is used. I so rarely have that problem that it is not an issue.

preheat Speed oven.
start cookie recipe
darn, butter is not soft.
switch to MW, stick butter on pyrex put the butter in the partially hot oven, melt butter, take out butter
switch back to preheat.
continue with the recipe
bake cookies.
DS comes home and is starving
wait 5 minutes to finish the batch of cookies (he is not really dying of hunger yet)
switch to MW
put left overs already in pyrex and put it in the hot oven on MW
finish baking cookies

People have a mental block that you can use a hot MW oven because we are used to putting in plastic into the MW.

We do not put plastic containers in MW by choice.

FWIW i installed my advantium (MG) 240V 30" oven undercounter and it works great. Probably not the most convenient height but no issues. My dealer said it was fine and i believed him (or just wanted to).

My revelation was that the speed oven in a new appliance type and that there is a learning curve to it. Plus you can get pretty creative with it which can be fun (or disaster!). So i find it has 3 uses: microwave, second oven, and speed oven.

Aliris- I just was thinking that a toaster oven would ALSO be a 3rd oven! : )

kaismom- Very helpful : )

Our island is going to be a 2-3 inches lower than standard b/c I'm short. Thinking that may be an issue.

Thanks everyone!

I'm pretty sure this placement is said to violate the warrantee? If you look back in the archives here there was some discussion about this. And someone said it vents very hot air undercounter so there's a fear of it being unsafe? That's my memory, it's been a while.... Since you have it, though, do you find there is a hot venting going on to be worried about with small kids about?

It seems "hot" is terribly subjective, cf discussions of BS oven door!

Also note opinions regarding the value of the warrantee vary a lot around here too.

You can find the literature for the oven online. I'm pretty sure I found the info -- someone probably linked to it, pls check the archives -- about the warrantee online.

aliris-
The manual shows undercounter installation. Are you saying they don't warrantee if you install that way?

Aliris - not sure if you were asking me about Advantium undercounter install. No hot air blowing out and i don't see any issues with kids opening it (and certainly no different than a regular oven installed under counter). I suppose it could void the warranty so that's a real issue. I am assuming that my dealer will support on this as he told me it would be fine. I read someone had service come for theirs installed undercounter and service didn't say a word about it.

Not sure why, but the Advantium 240V is installed a minimum of 36 3/4" above floor for safety reasons. The 120v oven can be used for under counter installation. Safety reasons are not explained, but could be because it is a more powerful oven or the counter top might keep heat from escaping. The Miele is the only 240V speed oven I believe that is recmomended for under counter mount.

Can you lock the oven DURING use? I know there is a lock so it can't be operated. Also how hot does the outside get during cooking? We have soon to be 6 and 4 year olds and I'm wondering if under counter would pose a risk to them?

Sorry for the confusion. When I looked into this explicitly at the time I was shopping for this stuff, I was prepared to buy the Advantium 240V until it was pointed out to me here that placing it undercounter would explicitly void the warrantee. I was told at the time it was because of hot air venting and a user confirmed this experience with her own. The Miele was confirmed not to vent hot air and contact with the company confirmed it was OK to mount it undercounter; I bought it.

All this can change with time; my memory could be faulty too. But it seems in the thread above most of this is swirling around. It's easy enough to confirm from the source if you're serious about buying.

I just installed my advantium and it must be installed over counter.
BTW - in our partially completed kitchen - it is amazing!

I was so blown away by mojavean's poem that I nearly forgot the one thing to contribute. We've only been using our MasterChef for about six weeks, but the one thing that first comes to mind is how fast it pre-heats and is ready to go.

Tomorrow we're making a chocolate cherry cake for my youngest son's birthday, and this morning I stooped to indulge a guilty pleasure: store-bought cinnamon rolls.

I've also used it for broiling salmon, finishing beef tenderloin that's been crusted in a skillet, and a dozen other things (including re-heating coffee in the microwave).

It's been so useful, I have yet to fire up the big oven in our 36 in Capital Culinarian!

Mojavean-Great Poem!

Thanks everyone---

Can you lock the oven DURING use? I know there is a lock so it can't be operated. Also how hot does the outside get during cooking? We have soon to be 6 and 4 year olds and I'm wondering if under counter would pose a risk to them?

No lock on advantium door i believe although you can lock the control pad. I don't think regular wall ovens have locks either (only for self clean mode).

I checked again on the hot air blowing and there is a vent under the oven door that blows hot air (but not burning hot) when it is cooling.

One thing nice about the advantium (or at least different) is that it operates like a microwave re: timing. You set the time and thats as long as it goes which i think is safer in case you forget to turn it off. Exception is warming mode where it will go on forever (it tells how long its been on).

The outside doesn't get hot that i've noticed. I just noticed the hot air blowing yesterday after reading this thread!

I have a love hate relationship with the speed oven. It is wonderful to have a real half sized oven that will cook like a regular oven.. There are only two of us so we use this 90% of the time. We have a full size oven below the speed oven. Unless you have a huge family I can't see why you'd need a double oven plus a speed oven.

The manual for the speed oven sucks big time but the oven works well. It is a normal oven, a normal microwave, a convection oven, a broiler and a few others plus it can combine some functions like microwave and convection. That said I remodeled an apartment for my daughter and bought her a much less expensive Kitchenaide version of the speed oven ANd it has a great manual, is easy to use and does most of what the speed oven does.

On another topic I would never buy stainless steel again. White is so much easier to keep clean. And I bought a French door fridge that cost a lot more than a regular two door and doesn't hold as much. When you remodel you get a lot of pressure to choose the more expensive options. I don't need to impress anyone so id be fine with white and a normal fridge. I do LOVE my induction cooktop and my quiet Meile dishwasher and the new front loading washer and dryer really do clean well, use lots less water and dries a full load in 35 minutes. I dont like the front loading washer but am still impressed.

So, can anyone who has had the new-ish Jenn-Air for a bit chime in? Looking at that and the Electrolux.

Curious about the Electrolux. Someone up thread said they take the turntable out when neccessary. Didn't see that as being allowed in the manual. ;) So where do you place the pans then, is there a rack?

You can not take the turntable out on the Elux speed oven if you are microwaving or "Speed Cooking"---(a combo of microwaving and convection baking).

For convection baking, baking, grilling, roasting you could remove the turntable. Since the shaft that rotates the turntable is recessed, you can put a pan right on the bottom, but a rack might be better as far as allowing better heat distribution to that which you are baking, roasting or whatever. Myself, I just leave the turntable in all the time, even when I'm doing toast---works for me, as I haven't had anything big enough in in yet, to need the extra vertical space I could get by removing the turntable.

The turntable is needed for microwaving and speed cooking so the microwaves are evenly distributed about that which is being microwaved or "speed cooked". The Miele using some fancy lil "Do Dad" that distributes the microwaves around the oven, hence it needs no turntable.

Gary

With under-counter speed ovens, can you use ceramic dishes that could be used in a regular oven? I have mostly Portmerion casserole dishes.
Thanks,
Diane

I often use ceramic Le Creuset dishes in my Miele speed oven, no problems.

DavisBurns - please tell me which speed oven you have? Is that a generic term or specific brand/model? I thought I was all set to get a thermador combi steam oven, a thermador convection wall oven and an advantium (or some other multi-purpose microwave with extras) but now I am so confused! Is this overkill or what?

I'm on the brink of buying two Miele Masterchef speed ovens (white: H4086BMBRWS+) to replace my microwave and oven. But the negative reviews on other sites make me nervous. Would be thrilled to hear from people about: a) how happy they are with their Miele Masterchef, especially the (much-criticized) microwave; b) whether you think it can replace a regular oven (we don't do large roasts). Thanks!

Replaced a Thermador double wall oven with the Miele speed oven on top and Miele convenction oven on bottom. Both have MasterChef functionality. aAlso have a drawer microwave and Thermador freedom induction cooktop. Love the new speed oven particularly, as others have said, it is my go to everyday oven. Use it for daily meal prep as its smaller cavity is usually big enough for most meals. Like the combi settings and the preprogrammed MasterChef (MC) settings. But there is some trial and error when you run intonot things not preprogrammed. We buy Tyson frozen breaded chicken cutlets, but you cant use the MC poultry settings for this this. I do a combi convect bake and microwave and it cooks much more quickly than just convect bake in the big oven. So far very pleased. Will save he settings for future use. Can save up to 20 custom settings,