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When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Posted by plllog (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 25, 10 at 16:04

Remember when washing machines washed, dryers dried and dishwashers both washed and dried?

I'm all for energy and water savings. It's good for the planet and all. But what's the point if we become slaves to the machines?

Why should we have to manually dry the inside of the washing machine to prevent fungus from growing? That sounds like a design flaw to me!!

Why should we have to towel dry all the dishes from a dishwasher when drying is the bigger and more tedious part of dishwashing?

One of the things I love about my new induction cooktop is that I don't have to make the kind of accommodations I'm supposed to--it works with un-flat and over-sized cookware.

Functional things, like having to use iron with induction, or the top of the fridge or freezer being warmer than the bottom (physics--heat rises) are normal. Machines making you do part of their job is bad design.

I see sooo many threads here where people talk about how nice their appliances are but then talk about the accommodations they make, and the extra work they do, to make these things work right! Why do we put up with this?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Sorry, but I don't do any extra work for my appliances! They are there to make MY life easier.

Using the two examples you mentioned: my dishes in my Miele DW come out perfectly dry. I have never had to dry the inside of my FL washing machine. I remember the appliances in my home growing up, and mine now are so much more effective, quieter, and energy efficient. Honestly, my experience does not jibe with your post.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I have to agree with what Plllog writes...

If you read the Laundry Forum, it's repeated over and over that you have to wipe down the door/seal after every wash day with a FL washing machine. Additionally, you have to run a "clean" cycle monthly.

On this Forum, I keep reading that DWs that do not have an internal drying element (like Miele) do not dry plastics very well and they have to be hand dried...


So, it seems that we do have more efficient machines but at the cost of having more to do in many cases. I just purchased a FL washing machine last week to be delivered this week so I'll find out just how much work they really are! (I couldn't talk my DH into a Miele DW b/c of the cost and he wanted the KA that was on sale at the time we bought new kitchen appliances...so I cannot attest to DWs w/no internal heater.)


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I have a FL and don't wipe down the washer (I do leave the door ajar), and I have never run a cleaning cycle -- in nearly 2 years. They have made my laundry easier to do and in fewer loads.

My DWs do not have the heated drying and I don't towel dry things any more than I've done with every DW I've ever used -- if anything, it's less that needs to be dried.

I don't feel like I've sacrificed function in any of my appliances. I read other people saying those things too, but I've had all my new appliances for years now and I enjoy that they have improved things for us. I would have to consider one that didn't a poor design and poor purchase too.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

In the case of dishwashers,and I have a Miele Otima, it dries ok, more often than not, it is necessary to wipe off the plastic ware yes we use jet dry or whatever. The other thing is how much longer they take, usually we used what was called "Short Wash" on the old KA Supurba we had. Took bout 20 minutes, and everything was clean and dry, and if we forgot to add rinse aid, dishes were still dry alto glasses might be spotted, alto the old KA had to work with our lousy chunk style water here, while the newer Miele gets fed a diet of nice soft water.
It typically takes an hour and 20 minutes to finish, alto we have been able to use one of the shorter cycles with pretty good results---cept for the plastic again.
One does wonder, when you have an appliance running for 80 minutes, instead of 20, are you really saving any energy?
Even thou we have had the Meile for almost 4 years now, It still feels strange to reach inside and extract the cold dishes---I just get the feeling are the dishes as sterile as the Old KA, where if I reached in too soon, I got rid of that hot plate "straight-away".
Couple this with the new hot drying feature that apparently Miele is using in Europe now,---I kinda get the feeling that we have some kinda "Intermediate Models" till the better thing , finally comes along from Europe, or maybe even the US?
Cook top (Induction), I would have to disagree with Pillog, it's a lot easier to use than the old ceramic one we had and easier to clean,--yea I know Induction is pot/pan specific but we needed new ones anyway, and wife keeps telling me how easy the new ones are to clean, and the handles don't get hot or the lids---so this is a trade-off we gladly made.
Ovens, well cept for all the bad vibes (Usually KA Ovens) when self cleaning, we find the newer oven easier to use.
It is better lit and we love the glide-out shelves.
But we never thought twice about self-cleaing our old one and did it many times ---New one? only once--even thou I don't recall seeing any Elux postings about failures after self cleaning, I'm still nervous about it.--so cooking easier on it, care and maintenance still don't know.

Gary


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I've had my LG washer for about 4 years. I treat it just like I treated the Whirlpool TL it replaced: I leave the lid open. And I wash whites in hot with bleach.

I don't wipe anything. On the washer, that is.

And I haven't towel-dried a dish in my life and I don't intend to start. I purposely bought a DW with an internal heater, but I also airdry when I have the chance by opening the door at the end of the cycle. The residual heat takes care of the rest.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I have a FL Kenmore washer (purchased in 2003). I wipe out around the gasket when I'm finished doing wash on a particular day, leave the door open, and dump out the water collected in the soap/bleach dispenser. Seems to make sense, not leaving collected water in a sealed up machine, so I do it. I don't run any special cleaning cycles for the washer though. No funky smells or mold/mildew thank goodness.

As for my Miele DW, stuff comes out much cleaner than it did in my old KA DW, maybe a few items are a bit wetter than they would have been, but not many more. I can put plastics anywhere in my Miele without fear that they'll melt (which means my larger size plastic containers can go in/on the bottom rack). Even with the need to wipe off a few remaining water droplets on some stuff while unloading, I still think I'm better off with my Miele than my old DW.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Our current appliances are 3 years old & the best we've ever used.

We have 2 Miele dishwashers & don't have to wipe out either. The most I have to do is refill the rinse & salt dispensers, and wash out the filters, approximately every 3 months.

We have 2 Miele FL washing machines. No wiping, just leave the door open, no mold.

Our Gaggenau steam oven is plumbed, so no need to wipe it out either.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Just for clarification, I wasn't talking about any one appliance in particular. I've been reading this forum for 2.5 years. More often than not people are very pleased with their appliances unless they're having specific problems where the appliance isn't working right. Still, the mentions, by people who aren't complaining, of wiping down front load washers, and towel drying dishes are a constant and recurring theme. Maybe not for those of you who've just posted, but it's out there.

In addition, there are similar stories of people who have to be more involved with other kinds of appliances than used to be as well. I'm not talking about maintenance, like changing filters. Just having to do things in an unexpected way to make the outcome work right.

The reason why I was looking at the dishwasher topics most recently is a different problem with my own new dishwasher. I bought the Viking, even though it was new on the market (and called "Viking") because it had features I wanted: Great racks, a heater, didn't need rinse aid if the water isn't at least moderately hard, had a machine on light. Turns out that the black ring I didn't pay enough attention to in the store isn't the heater. It has some kind of blow dryer. Left my dishes soaking wet. So they replaced the heating parts. Left my dishes soaking wet. To be fair, most of the china was mostly sort of dry, the glass pots and glasses were all wet all over but not soaking, and anything made of plastic, including heavy poly tumblers and thick, acrylic handled, fancy Italian flatware, and the sides of the stainless tub, were all soaking wet. Wetter than when I hand wash, before towelling, because there isn't a flick loose water off cycle (thank goodness! Don't need a machine shaking my dishes).

Viking were really nice about it and agreed to take it back.
The new one is the Monogram, which has an actual coil. It comes Wednesday. The Viking is so lovely, but useless to me if it doesn't dry dishes. At this point all I want is for them to be as dry as the old apartment house machines--if there are a few drops on the plastic containers, and in the wells of upended mugs, I'll be fine. Dry dishes with 7th Gen and no Jet Dry and a panel and I'm good--just like my old Whirlpool. But I can't deal with the racks on the KitchenAid/Whirlpool. Those have bumps in the wrong places. From what I've read about the Monogram, I might have to learn how to feed the Monogram, which can be cranky (I'm hoping the current model is improved--I read that it was but haven't seen anything from someone who has one).

I am very interested to hear about Miele putting in a heater. :)

But really, I wasn't asking this question about my dishwasher problem. I was asking because of all the posts I've read here where people have to baby and cajole and cater to their appliances. What happened to set it and forget it??


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

It takes about 40 seconds to put the bleach/cleaning agent in dispenser and select cleaning cycle and push the start button. Plan on doing that,per manual,every 3 months.

Wiping the gasket on my new Bosch FL takes about 40 seconds after spending a day washing.

What is the big deal?

Cleans better,far more gentle on cloth,uses far less soap and water versus my old Whirlpool.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I got a VW last year, and I still have a lot to learn because it's so different from my old Ford. It does bug me that there are so many things to "know" and to keep learning about.

I agree with the first post too.

My FD never told me to leave the door open and let it dry out. Seems like that happens to many others too. Why don't they all just say "this is normal and required" huh?? Now it's a habit I am able to wipe the gasket in 1 or 2 seconds and I don't consider it weird. But it took a few years to figure that out, and to start doing it and to turn it into an automatic habit.

I'm sure I'll have lots to learn about my DW once I start using it. More fun. Or more aggravation. Or both at the same time.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I agree that many new appliance ''innovations'' are less than helpful, and the declining longevity of appliances is also disappointing.

However, I think a little perspective is required here. My current appliances release me from the slavery to housework that my grandmother and mother experienced. No washing clothes with a washboard or wringer washer. No defrosting an old icebox by hand every month. No washing dishes by hand. No cooking with a wood stove.

My appliances could function better at times but I'm far better off than American women were 60 years ago or the majority of the world is today. No way that I'm going to complain about towel drying a few dishes.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Why towel dry dishes? Shake them off and put 'em away. I have a lot of experience doing this and it works fine.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

David has a really good point. Maybe a lot of the problem is the instructions. If it said you had to wipe the gasket as part of operation it wouldn't seem like such an imposition, I guess. Though there's no way I'm putting bleach in my washer. There's no way I'm opening bleach in the house. There's no way I'm even handling discharge paste (for removing dyes) without gloves and a respirator mask, and outside, and defintiely not often. It's pretty well washed out before the cloth gets anywhere near my laundry machines. Sorry. Mini-rant. But appliances shouldn't require you to use toxic chemicals that are seriously bad for you and the world.

I agree with Warmfridge's perspective. I spent a year doing laundry in a bucket. I'm happy to have a machine. But if we're getting the function my mother and grandmother had in my own childhood that would include dry dishes from the machine (but not energy efficiently) and almost all appliance cleaning could be done with a damp rag.

Re the instructions, I'm happy with my new tech Advantium, but I keep discovering new, easier ways to use it that aren't in the book! And, btw, I don't mind changing the trays for the function. That, and the need for somewhere to put them, are well publicized and what you get for a multipurpose appliance.

Some people really object to having to change the water filter in the Miele freezer, but it does give you a warning when the time is coming so you can get a filter, and then tells you when to actually make the change, which is pretty cool. And who wants yucky water in the ice? And the freezer keeps freezing when the electronics freeze up (need a reset). So I'm good with that as well.

Maintenance is fine. I just don't want to be doing the machine's job for it.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Perhaps if we paid more attention to whatever the maintenance recommendations and processes changes are involved with new appliances, rather than falling in love with brand names and/or looks, it wouldn't be such a problem.

When I went to look for a DW, I needed it to (1) fit the stuff I couldn't fit into my old DW. (2) actually clean the dishes, instead of having to pre-wash - we have regular droughts out here, we take water conservation SERIOUSLY. (3) be a little quieter, but it wasn't my top priority as most seem to be much quieter these days than my old 1989 'growler'.

I bought the DW that best fit my specifications and made sure I actually read the manual (which I do for every appliance, including the 48pg monster that came with the F&P top loading washer, LOL). It was different loading this DW, I have so many strange mixed loads it took about a week before I was comfortable with how to load and what cycles worked best for me. But it wasn't a big deal.

For us, for example, drying was not a big deal. I've never used the drying cycle, it's a real electricity hog and our rates are the highest in the US. The DW we have uses residual drying, and I found to my surprise it dries extremely well. The dishes are almost all dry after the cycle ends, which is only 15 min longer than the old DW took. Only concave surfaces don't dry, which is just a 'shake-out and leave for an hour in the rack' action, no biggie for us.

We can, with our cabs, put dishes away soaking wet and it wouldn't hurt anything. And I chose my cabs specifically for easy cleanup and water resistance, because when I originally remodeled I wasn't accustomed to using a DW. So some thought in planning for living with what you choose, is just as important as what the overall appearance is going to be. Functionality is what is going make things easier for you, not harder.

I do see the OP's point about changing how we do things, however. It is never easy to change a routine that we do automatically. What you want is to have an appliance whose routine may be a little different at first, but not an imposition.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I agree that appliances shouldn't have to be "babied" or have complicated sets of do-this-do-that to operate. But any of the modern appliances make life so much easier for a homemaker. I remember going to the laundromat with my Nana when I was about 4-5 years old. It was a huge (in my memory) dismal building filled with wringer washers. Nana did the wash, then took the heavy baskets home to dry everything on the backyard clothesline. Now THAT was work!

Fast forward 55 years. I don't mind keeping my washer and dryer clean by wiping them down. If I had a FL washer I wouldn't mind wiping out the gaskets, but I do have an issue with leaving the door open. What about pets and toddlers?

One thing a lot of people on this forum gripe about is something I truly don't understand. Using the heated dry on a DW uses a lot of electricity. I never ever use heated dry. I open the DW, note what's still wet, shake it off, then leave the door slightly ajar for a few hours. To me this is a no brainer.

What I do have a problem with is the dumbing down of washers and dryers, so they're only expected to last 5 years! In looking for a new W/D I told the department manager that I want a service contract and asked him what about after the first five years term. His answer was, "Buy a new set." That's ludicrous.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

No need to rehash what's already been said. We love our Mieles, anything other than plastic comes out bone dry.

What I would like to question are some of dodge59's comments about Mieles:
1) You say your dishes are cold when you take them out? Mine are too hot to touch if I take them out at end of cycle. There has to be something wrong with your DW if that's the case. Remember that just because they don't use a heater coil doesn't mean they don't use heat to dry. They just use the more efficient approach of using residual heat from the hot water to dry.

2) I am completely unable to substantiate your claim that Miele is using a heater in European models. I think that's wrong. Here's a quote from the most recent press release announcing the new G 5000 series of Euro DW's:
"Significant energy efficiencies are not least the result of AutoOpen drying. This intelligent feature gently kicks the door open at the end of the rinse and drying cycle, allowing fresh air in. This cools the load faster and makes unloading the machine more convenient. To top it all, it also shortens the programme cycle, resulting in further energy savings. A pleasant side-effect is that the crockery, in particular plastic items, dries even better." The newer machines also use fan-driven air which circulates around the outside of the stainless steel walls to increase moisture condensation. No heater is used.

3) You question whether the longer cycles actually consume more energy than the older machines with short cycles. Given the huge electricity consumption of electric coils, there is now way that could be true. However, as evidence, again from the G5000 press release:
"the new dishwashers achieve top values of 0.83 kWh for 14 place settings in the standard programme, reducing consumption per place setting to an incredible 0.06 kWh - 20% below what is needed for the best energy-efficiency rating. And what's more, even this prize-winning value can be reduced even further thanks to the ThermoSave function: By connecting the machine to a hot water supply as is possible with all Miele dishwashers - energy consumption drops to a rock-bottom 0.48 kWh."

So, no, Miele is not reverting to the old brute force approach of electric coil heating.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

I dunno about appliances being extra work over the old, but I feel that way about folks who baby their new granite counters.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Good point, Fori!! That's something I also couldn't fathom about various options I was shown.

Jkom, I do the same thing you do--thoroughly research the appliances and read the manuals before I buy. It's the things that you find out only after they're installed that stymie me. I expect the appliances to do everything they were meant to do and more, rather than less. If I need to do part of their work they're not working right as far as I'm concerned.

Dianne, I think it's great that they've figured out how to make appliances that will get other people's dishes dry without using more energy. If it works. It just doesn't work on my dishes and really really doesn't work without using the chemicals that I don't want to use. But then there are all the people who use full settings of dishes and flatware at every meal and run them through the DW in order to have enough mass to make the load dry. I conserve, instead, by cutting way down on the number of dishes used and running the machine less frequently. Maybe I use more electricity, but less water, but it does all start to balance out. Though you also have to look at the contribution of things like disposable wraps vs. containers that have to be washed. What I will not do, ever--I think it's great that you do, but to me it's the appliance not doing its job--is have to shake off the wet dishes and set them to air dry. At that point I'll wash them by hand.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Pillog: I still have a hard time following your logic. Seems like you're cutting off your nose (hand washing) to spite your face (air drying plastics).

From every logical standpoint it seems like using a DW to wash reusable plastic containers is a better choice:

Labor--it is clearly easier to plop a container on the counter to dry, than it is to hand scrub said container, rinse it off, and then....plop it on the counter to dry!

Time: dump in DW, plop on counter. Clearly faster than hand scrubbing, rinsing, then plopping on counter.

Cleanliness: plastics are notorious for collecting greasy residue. I am confident that a run through a high quality DW will clean that better than a hand scrub.

Water conservation: you do incrementally reduce water use by running DW less often. But, if you look at how much water is wasted running down the drain while hand washing, I would venture that the total water use ends up much higher. A Miele, depending on cycle, may use as little as 10 liters per cycle. In comparison, a typical flow-restricted faucet may run 1 GPM. Thus, in approximately 2.5 minutes of faucet use, you've already consumed as much water as an entire DW cycle. No way you can hand wash a full DW load's worth of dishes in 2.5 minutes by hand.

Energy: well, compared to an old-style DW with heater coils, it's a total win for a non-coil DW. Versus hand washing, it comes down to the efficiency of your hot water production (taking into account the wasted energy running the faucet until the water is hot), and how fast you can hand wash, but I'm betting that it's at best roughly equal.

So, emotionally it may frustrate you to air dry plastic, but logically it's the only correct choice!


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

pillog, your posts are thoughtful and intelligent. I have glasses and bowls with indents at the bottoms. If I put them in the DW at a 45-degree angle they drain on their own, but I can't fit as much in the rack. So I usually put them in straight up and down. Opening the DW, shaking off the items (there are usually fewer than 6), and leaving them to air dry is just part of my routine - and I always know I'm saving electricity. I live in Arizona and everything is dry within an hour, that might not work in humid climates.

I can certainly understand that others would prefer to let the DW evaporate the water on just-washed items. No fuss, no bother. My system works for me and yours works for you.

Housework is a relative term. In the late 1970s I lived for about a year in South Africa. Those were the worst years of apartheid, I felt like I had been dropped into the nazi zone. I lived in a big house with 6 other young professionals and, like everyone else, we had a young live-in maid who kept the house in spotless condition.

Every day Anna washed the clothing for all of us - by hand IN THE BATHTUB - hung everything out to dry, and ironed all items. We would come home and find our laundry folded on the foot of our bed. Anna scrubbed all the hard floors daily, and there were no vacuum cleaners. She swept the carpets with a hand broom and dustpan. As I recall there were 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms in the house, all 3,000 square feet cleaned daily. The "privileged class" in South Africa never lifted a finger.

One of my South African friends came to visit a couple of years ago and was absolutely stopped in her tracks by my dishwasher and even more so by the W/D. I had to "teach" her how to use the washer, by showing her all the buttons and in what order to push them. She felt like she was operating the space shuttle. The woman was over 60 years old and had never used a washing machine.

So, I guess my point is that the amount of work we have to do in our American, Australian, Canadian, and British homes (I think that covers most of the people on this forum) is fairly light compared to our great grandmothers and those who toil for the masters in South America, Asia, and Africa. Wait 'til my South African friend comes back next time and sees my Roomba and washlet!


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

When Sparta fell. A military state that lived communally.
Spartans had no currency, therefore, they couldn't trade with neighbors. This worked fine as long as their military was bigger, better, or badder than yours. Through attrition, their strength became a weakness, therefore, they were gobbled up by neighboring states that used some form of money.
Money forces us to "Keep up with the Jones"
Remember the old bumber sticker "He who dies with the most toys wins." We are all slaves to what we own.


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

Clinresga, your logic seems fine, though I think your assumptions about my hand wash water usage is inflated. I've done a lot of it this last month, and have a pretty good idea of how much I use and how much the machine that didn't work was rated for. Your argument is just not to the point. I'm not looking for "correctness". I'm looking for clean, dry dishes. I do see how forcing wet dishes from the dishwashers on the masses, or forcing them to accommodate to what the dishwasher does, is a societal good for water and energy savings. That doesn't mean it works for every individual, and I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying that the world should eliminate energy saving dishwashers. The point of my original post is that I'm amazed that so many of us don't mind when the dishes don't come out dry. (And I do know that many people report having dry dishes with the no heated dry ones. This is a highly variable outcome which depends on water type, chemicals used, and mass of load to hold heat.)

The reason hand washing (using water waste avoidance techniques, though possibly using more than the DW would) would be better than air drying from the DW is that there's no way I'm keeping an open DW in the middle of the kitchen, and no way I'm moving everything to drying racks outside the DW to be in my way and get dirty again from splatter while they're drying, and no way I'm wasting my time shaking them off and letting them dry when I could just dry them and put them away in one step. And since the biggest part of the chore is the drying (I guess I'm better at the washing part than your average person), that's a big deal reason for having a labor saving machine. I save an awful lot of energy that other people expend: I rarely drive (work at home, shop nearby, etc.), I have a large solar electric plant, I don't use a lot of lighting, etc. I save my usage for computers, TV's and kitchen appliances. And my choice is to have a dishwasher that actually gets my dishes dry rather than keep the lights on during the day, driving around all day, and things like that. So no nose is being cut off here. I found a dishwasher that dries my dishes. It uses more energy than on the cycle that leaves them dirty and wet. Too bad. This is how I choose to use my share of resources.

Dianne, what a great story! I've lived by and worked with people who came from primitive areas and had no notion even how to use indoor plumbing. It's so amazing to hear of someone who is privileged, and presumably has access to television, who is so stymied by 20th Century technology. Thank-you for sharing!

I spent a year doing my laundry in a bucket (no tub) and hanging it out in the rain to dry (which it did eventually). And during that time I did have a dish drainer and let most of the dishes air dry. I do appreciate modern marvels. :) I think my frustration was that we seem to have taken a step backward in marvelousness on some items, that in trying to meet some arbitrary goal we're producing inferior products that won't do the job right and won't last very long (creating a big resource suck at the manufacturing end).

I totally misunderstood what you mean about flicking off the bowls. That part is fine with me!! I'd just take a towel to those and not worry about it. In my reply to you I thought you were responding to when I said that the dishes were drier when I hand wash them and set them to drain because I flick the water off before putting them down. I don't mind toweling where the water accumulates in the well at the top of a mug or bowl, or under the rim of a container. It's soaking wet everything that takes 40 minutes to towel off (or leave pulled out in the racks for hours since the DW is too well sealed for them to dry inside--I tried that with the first DW and they were still wet 2 days later).

To be clear, what I'm talking about is wet all over. Not slightly damp, even, but soaking wet. Have a heated cycle for long enough to dry the accumulated water in the wells at the bottoms of things would truly but a terrible waste of energy. I've never asked for that. When the rest of the dish is dry and there's just that bit in the well of the rim, getting it dry is no big deal, whether by air or towel. Really.

As far as I can tell, my new new DW dries the dishes just fine on the use more energy cycles, and doesn't even get the dishes clean on the normal cycle. My hypothesis is that the normal cycle is called that to be competitive, and the other ones are there to actually get the job done. Whatever. Works for me. The added effort of pushing the correct buttons to select a decent cycle is not too much for my winsome and delicate self to undertake. :) Much, much, ever so much better than a DW that doesn't dry the dishes.

I wonder if one could put a couple of ceramic bed warming bricks in a Miele dishwasher and have all the dishes come out dry without having to have more mass in the dishes themselves?

But then, it's having to think of these things that made me post this topic in the first place...


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RE: When Did We Allow Machines to Enslave Us?

>>As far as I can tell, my new new DW dries the dishes just fine on the use more energy cycles, and doesn't even get the dishes clean on the normal cycle>>

That is interesting. Our new DW cleans so well that I seldom use the heavy-duty cycle for anything but cheese-y baked on crusted-over casseroles. The normal cycle, once ended, leaves the dishes extremely hot to the touch and bone-dry. Only concave surfaces, like the underside of cups or upturned rims of plastic containers, are still wet.

But unfortunately, I don't know of any stores that actually let you run a load of dirty dishes through a cycle to compare how various machines handle cleaning/drying in real life - information I'm sure we all could use, and one reason why people come here for advice before they buy. Similar to those who are buying expensive pro-style ranges, and are able to find a store that actually has one hooked up for trial use - there is nothing like having some real-time experience instead of just 'tire-kicking' the outside.

I hope you have better luck with your next appliance purchase.


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