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Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me?

Posted by WonderWoman313 (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 1, 12 at 15:08

I seriously HATE my front load washer and dryer!
It's the first (& hopefully LAST pair I'll have).

They're not the most expensive models, but they weren't cheap either (they are Frigidaire Affinity front loaders) and they stink....literally!

My clothes smell musty and no matter how much I try to keep the rubber ring in the washer dry (it's just such a pain) and I swear the dryer puts in more wrinkles then it takes out somehow!

I've tried those bleach cleaning tabs in the washer, but they don't seem to do much good either.

Is it just me or just the brand/model I purchased or are others having these same annoying issues?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

There is a "Laundry Room" forum. Suggest posting there rather than here.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Since the doors on front-loader washers must seal water-tight, it doesn't air dry between uses and mold can develop. Leaving the door ajar when not in use will help, but also remove the soap dispenser tray at least monthly and clean it off. I found mold growing on the underside of the back corner of mine. A thorough cleaning of it solved the musty odor problem in our towels.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

It's a common misconception that frontloaders are 100% "air-tight." The door seals, true, but the machines are not air-tight ... although there is less free air circulation through them than toploaders.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Front loaders are the worst. I'll never go back. Now using an HE top loader from LG. No more gasket sludge, no more stink.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I wipe the inside of the gasket with a towel after I am finished doing laundry on any given day, and leave the door open when the washer is not in use. I also dump water out of the soap dispenser when I am finished doing laundry as well.

We've had our He3t/Kenmore front loader for 8 1/2 yrs and there is absolutely no mold, mildew, or musty smell.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Front Loaders have far more problems than top loaders and a design flaw that in many of them the bearings are toast within 3-7 years.
I wouldn't buy a FL myself.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have had a Whirlpool Duet Sport for 4 years and haven't had any trouble at all.

I do leave the door open after each load but I haven't bothered to wipe out the gasket or any such thing. No mold, slime or stink.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We have a Samsung front loading washer and dryer. Both flawless. We leave the door open on the washer and do nothing else. Zero issues and both units do a spectacular job.

-Stooxie


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I do as Stooxie does with my FL. I've owned one (first Kenmore now Whirlpool Duet) since 2000 with zero issues.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Front loaders are the best.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I agree with deeageaux.

Have had 2 sets and loved both. No smell. I credit powdered detergent, no fabric softener and regular hot washes.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I love having a front loader - there is no going back for me.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Like doc8404, I have Whirlpool Duet front loader washer and dryer. I have the one with the heater. In almost 6 years, I have never had one musty odor or smell of any kind, or any other issues. My clothes come out clean, and my dryer dries without adding wrinkles.

Since purchasing these machines, I switched to using powdered detergent, and I also add vinegar for the rinse, and when needed, borax and/or washing soda to the detergent to boost cleaning. I don't use fabric softeners, never liked the strong odor, and don't need them to soften my clothes. When I'm done, I leave the door open to let the machine air out. I have never wiped anything dry. I have taken out the detergent dispenser a few times to clean it, but that's it.

You might want to try running a sanitary or the hottest cycle you can with bleach to kill any mold that the water can reach.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

In the last 15 years, I have owned and used a Frigidaire front loader, Samsung front loader, Electrolux front loader and several sets of Miele front loaders. I currently own and LOVE my Miele W4842 washer and T9802 electric dryer!!

After using the washer, I simply wipe the rubber door seal, remove the soap tray and rinse and leave the door ajar. SERIOUSLY, takes about 15 seconds!!! I have never had one smell, mold or slime issues ever, in any washer!

In regards to wrinkling, Miele dryers reverse tumble from the start of the dry cycle, to the end. Nothing, including sheets and large items have a chance to get tangled and wrinkle. I honestly, maybe iron once a month (or less). Miele dryers leave things fluffy, soft and virtually wrinkle free!!

Also, DO NOT just wash in cold water in any washing machine, especially a front loader. Once a week, do a wash on HOT or SANITIZE with POWDER detergent. It is essential. Good luck!!


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Love our LGs! Just leave the door open. done.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have the Kenmore Elite HE5 Steam on the pedestal drawers.

One repair in 4.5 years, something like a water inlet or water level sensor...besides that, no problems except for the occasional sock getting stuck in the front part where the water drains out.

Mom and dad have front loaders w/o pedastals, b/c they need the additional counter space the tops of the units provide. It's a slight pain to load and unload while struggling to see into the washer/dryer.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

No, we love FL and despise TL.

Front-load has been the norm for decades in Europe (where we are from) - I never heard of anyone there having problems with funky odor/mold. When we arrived in the USA 12 years ago, we were first amused to see the primitive washers that Americans were using, then depressed when we found how much less efficient they were - both in terms of cleaning and water/energy use - and how much they beat up clothes.

We were pleased to see FL gain acceptance in the USA as the years went by, and delighted when a move from rented accommodation to our own house enabled us to buy an LG FL washer and dryer.

As others have mentioned, leaving the washer door ajar allows any residual moisture to dry out.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

People who have problems with FLs most often cause them themselves. It's a real rarity for someone who uses them correctly to have problems.

If you do mostly cold water washes with liquid detergent and fabric softener, then leave the doors shut when you're done, you're almost certain to have issues. People who do at least a couple of hot water washes a week with powdered detergent and no fabric softener and then leave the door open for the machine to dry out very very rarely have issues.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I never had any problems with my front door LG either. Like most people here, I also leave the door open.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I've had a Kenmore since dd2 was born and she's working on 12years soon. Almost always I use cold water and leave the door open always. I did get the dreaded -- what was it T3 maybe? code? a year back ... that may be wrong, but these machines have a lot of information about this code getting thrown. It turns out to have been soldering that worked itself loose in the connections. There's a lot about it online. Once I resoldered the connections, everything's been hunky dory before and aft. So I can't say "no problems", but no problems that have un-sold me on the FL. I just love mine. So so so so so so so so much better at cleaning than the top loaders. And boy was I proud of myself for fixing this! No open flame ;)


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have Whirlpool Duet front loader washer and dryer. They are over 10 years old now. I love them. I do run hot or warm water washes and typically leave the washer door ajar between laundry days. No Problems. I will be getting front loaders again next time, probably E'lux though.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

FWIW, we only use liquid detergent, with mostly cold water washes. I do wash whites (weekly) in hot water, with bleach. Sometimes I buy regular bleach, sometimes the splash-less version or Ultra Care. FYI, only the regular Clorox/bleach disinfects--the other varieties do not apparently. We don't use liquid fabric softeners, just a fragrance-free Bounce sheet in the dryer.

No issues, as mentioned above.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Started with the FL Neptunes, wore them out, and purchased some basic Samsungs. Would not go back to top loaders. The FL just seem so much gentler on the fabrics. I do use powdered detergent but that is because I don't like messing with liquid. I also use fabric softener and I do use hot water on occasion. I have never had a smell issue. On my Samsungs I do leave the door cracked and empty the water from the dispenser. But this pair will actually set for a day or so before I use them. My Neptunes were constantly going, because at that time, I had two teenagers in the house.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Could this be an April fools joke?

Front loaders will clean a load of clothing better than a top loader!
I have seen it with my own eyes.
When I was washing whites in my top loader, my wash clothes had gray blotches because of using liquid bath soap. But after using several washes in my Electrolux Wave Touch the stains came out.

Now with grease stains, I just treat with regular detergent, no rubbing and wait an hour or longer and add borax to the load and the stains washes out in most cases depending on fabric type and cycles used!

As for your washer problems, do what everyone recommends up above and if you have a sanitize cycle, use 3/4-1 cup of citric acid using the longest wash time but reduce your rinse cycle from three to two rinses to reduce water waste and no spin to save electric.

If you do not have Citric Acid, any Oxygen Bleach Detergent which is hard to find and Ammonia should remove this odor.
(DO NOT USE LIQUID BLEACH WITH AMMONIA, THIS COMBINATION WILL GIVE OFF GASES AND KILL YOU!)

Oxygen Bleach and Ammonia is safe used together and will remove musty odor and mold off clothing as well as the machine if used on a regular basis if mold is found in time.

http://www.chemistrystore.com/search.cgi?keywords=Sodium+Percarbonate&Click+to+Search.x=26&Click+to+Search.y=5

1/4-1/2 cup of Sodium Percarbonate with 3/4 Ammonia with one teasoon of your detergent should freshen your machine.

Give one of the three a try!

As for your drying problems, use fabric softener and a lower spin speed on your washer and use medium to low heat for drying and you will see an improvement in less wrinkling. The only clothing that needs high heat is towels, mens underware and cotton sox only. Jeans and colored T-shirts should be dried using medium to low and everything else except delicate is medium. Plus do not overload and fold clothing while are warm.

Sodium Percarbonate is Oxygen Bleach in pure form which can be found at the Chemistrystore.com


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I've had my LG w&d for a couple of years now and I haven't had any smell problems but I do leave the door open after I wash a load just to dry the door but I often forgot to close it so it probably lets everything else inside dry out too.

The main thing I didn't like about the front loaders was bending over so much but that was resolved when the pedestals went on sale for $99.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I dont hate mine but I am not in love. I was so excited to get my LG pair but it fizzled out after a month or so. I don't have any smell issues as I am by the book. I wipe the seal, door and leave the door open. Clothes do seem to get more clean and less worn however I have had some mishaps with the machine and it drove me crazy. I think its because I have hard water but perfecting the soap was difficult. If I follow the manual instructions, it's way too much soap. Everyone asks me if I use the HE soap. YES I DO. I hate that question because its kind of stupid. Anyone that gets a new front loader knows it takes HE soap. If I wash very heavy towels, the machine leaks. I have called LG about it and they tell me I am putting too many in. I have tried washing just 2 towels, same thing. So I got rid of that set of thick towels and it hasn't leaked since. It just seems very temperamental. My top loader could take a beating. This front loader pampered princess gets on my nerves.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Here's a counterpoint from a once-true believer of front loaders who has given up on them and their temperamental ways.

My new LG HE toploader has an enormous tub, cleans as well (or better) than my frontloaders did, and is easy to get in and out of (no crouching/bending or pedestal required). I put in a batch of clothes, add detergent, pull the clothes out when they're done, and close the lid. I don't have to wipe out a gasket, leave the door hanging open, rinse out the soap tray, run a load of baking soda and vinegar through it, replace the gasket when it finally gives out (it will), buy a new washer when the motor fails at an alarmingly premature time, bake it cookies, read it bedtime stories, or pray to the Laundry Gods that it won't be possessed by demons of an odoriferous nature. It just washes clothes. Just like the good old days.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Larsi said that she has owned 4 or 5 sets of front loaders in the past 15 years! Can this be true? Egads, I have owned my top-loading Whirlpool washer and dryer set for 22 years! I have seven children, so we do lots and lots of laundry. And guess what, I almost never iron, most fabrics are wrinkle-free now anyway. My clothing is as clean as can be. I have learned that bleach is a killer on fabric. I haven't used any in years and don't miss it. I use borax as needed and my whites look, well, white.

I am very glad that I was not tempted to buy front loaders. I never have to dry, wipe, buy special detergents, rinse soap dispensers or baby my machines in any way. Sheesh. What FL owners go through is a prime example of people being slaves to material things. You pay a premium and must treat the object like it's made of glass. Is this really a labor saving device?

This is not to say that I don't love high performance appliances. A year ago, I purchased a top of the line Kitchen Aid three-rack dishwasher. It has been flawless and worth the $1500 price tag.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

In forty-plus years of owning washers I've only had one that I wasn't satisfied with. It was an el-cheapo contractor-special TL (conventional agitator) that came with my last house purchased. Replaced that with Duet 9400 FL seven-plus years ago which I still regard as the single best machine I've had experience with. Largest capacity, quietest, best results, and none of the issues so frequently complained about with the newer HE machines. Thing just sits there and runs. Looks as clean today as if it just came out of the box.

Must say, though, if shopping today I would have to start over. My German-made machine is already two generations obsolete and I know things have changed.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Hey cupofkindness - I've got you beat :-). I've had my top-loading Whirlpool for 30 years now and it's still going strong. My mother's apartment building had front-loaders and they were always breaking down and ending up full of water. I've never understood their appeal. I agree with you - I like throwing in the clothes, the detergent, and voila - clean clothes - not pampering the appliance :-)


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Can't stand FLs. Dirty clothes and lots of babying required. I got the Samsungs that sing the happy sea shanties when they're done. Too bad they can't produce clean laundry. I should've gone with the TL Speed Queens I originally wanted.

And no, I don't want to discuss what "I'm" doing wrong LOL.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

"What FL owners go through is a prime example of people being slaves to material things."

We leave the door ajar. That's it. It's actually less effort than closing the door. We don't wipe and bleach. We don't have any issues with mold.

As I said in my previous post, TLs are basically non-existent in Europe. People there certainly do not handle their machines with kid gloves.

The (very) few here who have had issues with FL machines are blaming those issues on the fact the machines are FL, as if FL was an intrinsically poor concept. That ignores decades of positive experience with FL almost everywhere else on the planet (I think the US was the last bastion of TL washers).

If you got a dud TL washer, you'd just say "I got a dud washer", but because FL is unfamiliar to you, you assume that the problems you experienced apply to all FL machines. That's not reasonable - even if you don't believe there are hundreds of millions of happy FL users around the world (after all, they're not Americans, so what do they know?), how do you explain the numerous posters to this thread who have experience with both TL and FL, and prefer FL?


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Peter, we're not in Europe. Just thought I'd let you know.

US machines adhere to different standards. Standards that are designed to maximize not only regulatory compliance but rebates and rewards. Not maximize cleaning performance. That is true now of a whole array of appliances and fixtures.

And this forum, above all others, is full of partisans for every kind of appliance, who are far too invested in their range or washer or whatever to ever admit they might have made a mistake. That's a known known.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Weissman:

Congratulations! You win the TL longevity on this thread! Isn't it great to have a machine that doesn't have a computer running it? It's amazing to think that with far less technology, America was cranking out washers that were designed to last decades only a generation ago. What has happened to our country? Europeans probably have better machines and or fewer expectations, plus they've doing this for a longer time. They seem to have less money to spend there, so something is out of kilter with the pricing of laundry appliances in our country.

About FLs, even leaving a door open seems inconvenient. But if you're happy with it, certainly I have nothing to say there. To me, FLs are unnecessarity large and showy. They look like little space capsules. Families are getting smaller but machines are getting bigger. Go figure!

The poster who listed 4 or 5 sets of washers/dryers, unless they are gifts or heavily discounted, is spending thousands and thousands of dollars. For what? Remember, when you spend the money it's gone forever. That money represents your time - your life. I'm not advocating that people buy cheap appliances and cross their fingers, but that consumers stop buying things based on glamour or prestige. No stove or pot cooks a meal better. There is no magic machine that makes laundering produce better outcomes. There are far too many factors involved to simply claim that "my machine does it better than any other does." Savvy marketing wants you to believe that these insignificant things really matter. I have really tried to convince myself to want a FL washer and dryer because I want to believe those ads, but alas I cannot part with my money for one.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I didn't read all of the posts so please forgive me if I'm repeating what was already said. We have a first generation front loader He3 Kenmore washer. After a couple of years, it developed a terrible, sewer type smell on the first load (with a lag of one week between use). I reseached many sights, including the laundry forum here, and tried EVERY suggested remedy. The one that worked was discontinuing any liquids, detergent or fabric softener. When we switched to powder detergent and dryer sheets, we never had another problem. We never dry the gasket or anything else. There was a thread several years ago, when I was studying this problem, that showed what the outside of the drum was like as a result of using liquid products...all gunked up with stuff that bacteria could thrive on. It was pretty horrifying and we almost got rid of the washer after seeing it. Switching to powder solved our problem. Apparently it has something to do with the wax in the liquid. Maybe it helps forming/maintaining the biofilm bacteria need to grow and thrive.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We just switched to TL from an FL.... FL had major mold issues. I think FL is not ideal in large families where the machine is working every day for long periods of time. The idea with FL is that you do not need hot water to clean the clothing, which would be great, except warm/cold is a great temp for mold to grow in. You can wipe it down & leave the door open all night long, but the bottom line is the rubber is wet all day long while the machine is going.

And, once you get mold, you cannot remove it. Ever. I am loving my new LG 5170 top loader & matching dryer. NEVER going back to FL!


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

"The idea with FL is that you do not need hot water to clean the clothing..."

Absolutely untrue. Have no idea where you would get such an idea.

"...once you get mold, you cannot remove it."

That, likewise, would be news to the many who have.

However, glad you now have a machine that you like.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I'm just learning on this thread that powder laundry detergent will help one avoid any potential mold problems with front load machines.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a High Efficiency front load powder detergent (preferably one without too many extra scents and chemicals)?

(Heretofore I've been using Tide liquid HE unscented for cold water washing.)


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We use Charlie's Soap and really like it.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

LOVE my new Seed Queen top load washer and dryer...and will NEVER go back to a front loader.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I hope my KitchenAid TL washer never dies. It's probably 15 years old and just keeps chugging along with its non-digital controls. Our clothes last a long time, so I don't think it's rough on them. My favorite "feature" is the extra-large capacity that fits a king-sized comforter (same with the dryer) or 60 trillion towels. I would say we have pretty basic laundry needs. I rarely use anything other than the normal cycle, so I'm pretty content with our basic washer.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

McGillicuddy, I can tell you the manufacturing date if you provide the machine's serial number.

KitchenAid toploaders are Whirlpool direct-drive/transmission units in a slightly different exterior. IIRC, laundry products came under the KA brand around 1987, and were dropped from the line after Whirlpool bought Maytag in 2006-ish. From approx the early 1990s to the end, KA toploaders typically had 3-speed motors. Coupled with a larger agitator, they usually ran the medium motor speed for high agitation, which made for somewhat gentler action than their Whirlpool (and Kenmore and Roper and Estate) siblings.

Whirlpool is no longer producing machines of this mechanical design (introduced in 1982) except for some coin-op models and lower-end models on the consumer market under the Admiral, Amana, Estate, and Roper brands that likely will be discontinued soon (if not already). However, there are millions of them still in use so parts should be available for some years longer.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

My front load LG has been great. Love it. I only had one issue when a drain was clogged. I was able to unclog it myself with the help of customer service. I've had it three years. Dryer is incredible also.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have a FL that was in the house when we moved in. I do probably 20 loads of laundry a week between all of the sports uniforms, school uniforms and play clothes. Most on cold. I use liquid He soap and liquid fabric softener. I was told to use the least amount of He liquid soap that is recommended - bottom line only. Same with fabric softener. I do leave the door open because if I don't, I get the musty smell.

When I tried powder, not all of the powder would dissolve.

I don't know why, but my soap compartment always has water in it at the end.

It cleans fine, probably better that my top loader that had an agitator. I don't know what the new ones without the agitator are like. But I can't say that I love it.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We have a Fisher-Paykel HE topload washer AND topload dryer that are great. We have had the pair about 4 years now. The washer does not have a big center agitator. At first I was skeptical about getting things clean but I have had no problems getting anything clean and dry. No front loaders would fit in our tiny narrow laundry room. I especially like the matching topload dryer. It is great to not have to lean down to load and unload the dryer. Quite an advantage for my sore back. The only thing I miss about my previous giant drum Amana washer is being able to wash big fluffy comforters. I do have to take them to a laundromat.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Love my Samsung. I don't even think about doing anything special. User a minimum amount of powdered detergent and wash most loads in warm or hot. Use plain old liquid chlorine beach with whites and linens. Never have left the door open,wiped the seal dry or run a clean cycle (except I did run some dishwasher powder through the factory fresh unit) and never have had smell or mold problems.

And NO you cannot get everything clean in cold water no matter what kind of machine you use. Even our great ancestors figured that one out. LOL

Too many people try to play chemist with their silly homemade soap, avoidance of bleach and using too many unnecessary additives.

The only difference to using a front loader is to use a lesser amount of low sudsing detergent and avoid thick liquids like fabric softener and splashless bleach.

It's a no brainer but people overthink everything and get into trouble.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I switched to the under-counter-sized Bosch pair (Axxis; about 4 gallons per fill!) in '06. I immediately saw my water bill and electric usage plummet! They started saving me money from day one over the 40-gal per load TL set they replaced.
The 160* sterilizing cycle and on-board water heater that permits the enzymes in detergents to really work does such a better job at lower cost and smaller environmental footprint. The 1200 rpm spin extracts most of the water so the dryer has to run less, too.
I leave the door open and no mold problems or swampy smells in 6 years.
Casey


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Another super-satisfied Samsung owner here. Have had my washer for 5 years, absolutely no problems. My clothes are super clean (use Kirkland he powder detergent from Costco). I do 2 hot water loads each laundry day (whites with steam and hot darks---my boys' gym clothes), and I think that def. helps with keeping the unit clean. All I do is prop the door open to let it dry; no wiping the seals or anything.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I can't resist saying again how happy I am with my new Speed Queen top load washer and matching dryer. We bought their top of the line (in the $600 range) and it holds as much laundry as my Whirlpool Duet, and spins it out just as dry. It does not beat the clothes up...they actually agitate very gently.

I now have nice clean, fresh smelling clothes, in a fraction of the time. Even my dirty gardening clothes are coming clean.

The hot water actually goes in hot.

It's interesting how a few of my aquaintances like to talk about how they are so "green" they are with their "green" appliances (that they grumble about), and yet they water a stupid lawn a couple of times a week. Now THAT's a major waste of water, in my opinion. Wanting to be clean is not.

Want to be "green" and save some electricity in the process? Use solar drying power when possible. In other words, put up a clothesline. Can't beat how nice the clothes smell when you bring them in.

If I ever get wind that Speed Queens won't be available at some point in the future I will buy a couple more to stockpile, because I will never go back to a front load or own a top load HE washer.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

In 2002-ish I had the Kenmore one (name escaping me at the moment) seems the technology was just catching on big here. It was HORRIBLE. It was the top loading HE machine. Talk about stink! It was BAD. and mold....gross. It would tear my clothes and towels too...of course it all started one month after warranty ended. Thats when I researched and found the class action lawsuit. I just got rid of them and bought Bosch. These were much better IMO, and SOOOOO quiet!,,,,but eventually I had to really maintain (drying, cleaning etc) to keep the musty smell away. When we sold our house, the buyers insisted we leave the Bosch's...I was kinda glad I had an excuse to buy a new pair. I went with LG's this time, we leave the door open and rarely I see water in the seal and dry it out, otherwise just leave the door open and it's been fine. I ran a cleaner though it once in the past 3 years. If/When it's time to replace, I would consider a top loader though, if I could be dazzled by it.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Herein lies a problem with this sort of forum filled with individual's anecdotes: rarely will any given person have a fair comparison to make. Most people are seeming to love their *new* machine, I think, whether it be FL or TL. I haven't counted up or made a careful study of this, so I could be wrong. But I think in general - well for me it was certainly true, when I bought a new FL in 2000 I loved it in comparison with my circa 1980 TL. I didn't buy a new TL machine to do the experiment of TL vs FL. I sounds to me as if washing machine manufacturers -- like fridge manufacturers - have made rather great strides in technology and all options may be significantly better now than formerly.

So this should give you courage to buy whichever pleases you for ancillary reasons, say, convenience or appearance. The general design-type may not be a critical parameter (perhaps -- jury's still out though. But it's certainly a possibility it isn't).


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We're choosing a new set and just talked to an appliance salesman. We are currently leaning toward the Samsung FL with the vibration technology. Our laundry will be on the second floor and he said that for the dryer, this has a nice system that reduces the vibration from the dryer, which will matter more on the 2nd floor. He also said the new FL have drains in the front. The early models didn't and apparently that was one source of some of the water/mold problems. Likewise it seems some of the HE TL models had troubles early on because they are based on weight and weren't putting in enough water. So it definitely seems like there are more issues when the technology is newer. Once we decide I'll give a review of our choice a few months down the road.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Anecdotes are just that ... unqualified personal opinions with no weighting as to individual user habits.

Pretty sure I know to which machine JanJan212 is referring ... Kenmore Calypso. I have the Whirlpool version (identical mechanism and action, different control panel) which I bought used in 2007, refurbished and have been using since Oct 2008. It's the BEST toploader I've ever used (thus far). So there's my opinion. I've never used a frontloader so can't make a comparison there.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Samana, which Samsung FL model set was recommended if I may? My FL Neptune washer's bearings are about to go, but unlike many, it lasted ten years. I'm trying to review specific FL models of Samsung, LG and maybe Electrolux in stackable units.

Trying to baby my machine through to Memorial Day sales. Thanks.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

All you need to do is buy " Smelly Towel cleaner" --- bought it at Ace Hardware.

This product will take all the mustiness and unpleasant odor out of your towels and clothes. AMAZING! It's about $4 and all you need is a capful whenever needed. I have done it twice in a year, but I do leave my door ajar.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Love my Whirlpool Duet front loaders. I've had them for 5 years now, and they are great. Just leave the door and soap drawer open after each cycle. Also, use HE laundry detergent. The washer has a "clean washer" cycle, just use the recommended amount of bleach, turn it to the clean cycle, and done. No smelly odors, or any problems.

When I get new machines for the new house, I will make sure they are front loaders, and have the clean cycle, as well as the sanitary/allergen cycle to kill dust mites.

There are products out on the market now that can clean your Front loader, if you do not have the clean cycle. Check out the laundry aisle in the grocery store. Also, use common sense and air it out!!!


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I've had a Maytag for 10 years. I usually forget to leave the door ajar. Last year it developed that moldy smell after I forgot a load. Tide Washing Machine Cleaner fixed it.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have the now-discontinued Bosch Vision FL and I think it works great. We basically use it like cat_mom does above. Just leave the door open when done. But I don't think that's much different than with a TL. We had a TL and we always left the lid open after washing. Otherwise, it would smell musty too. I think the hangup some people have with leaving the FL door open is that it extends out and is therefore "in the way." Whereas leaving the TL lid open after a wash wouldn't be an issue. In reality, it's the same thing. JMHO.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Bearings, Bearings Bearings. Like Nunyabiz said, poor quality drum bearings are the problem with at least some front loaders. And it's not so easy to repair. Anyway, I like front loaders.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Sparkling Water, I believe we saw models WF331ANW/XAA and WF330ANW. One has slightly more cycle options. They were at Sears and had the VRT symbol on the left side.

Just to confuse the issue, we had an electrical walk through with our builder who swears by the top loader. A friend of ours in real estate came with his wife and she said she would get a top loader next time. They got a FL a few years ago and while it's okay, she's not thrilled with it. She says that the clothes get really stretched and twisted. I should have asked her what brand it was.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Front loaders aren't all that new - my DM had one when we were growing up.
I think FL are less harsh on clothing.
We have a Miele after a failed Maytag set....


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Thanks samana, I read through a lot of Samsung specs and reviews. Currently I have a Maytag FL but before it I had a GE stackable TL. Of the two, I found the TL easier on my knees and back. In stackable Samsung units, it appears the TL washer is a 100 pounds lighter or so. No agitator though.

alexr; funny! our washing machine sounds like it's about to take off..(doing smaller, lighter loads to not stress the poor thing while I sort through the myriad of information that's out there.)


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Frontloaders are not new. The first automatic washer on the U.S. market was a frontloader, brand of Bendix, wayyyyy back in 1937. There were washers available well before that, of course, but they were not automatic and largely were of the topload/wringer style.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Wow, thanks so much for all the posts and info. everyone!
I really appreciate it. Sorry for the delayed response.
Still researching and trying to decide which ones to go with.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Best thing to do is research it for yourself.
Many here are Front Load sycophants and defend them as if they are their children.
Reason being is that so many other FL owners have had numerous problems with them so the ones that love them are constantly defending them.
Its almost like a religion, so you will get completely differing opinions in the TL Vs FL debate.

FL make up around 40% or less of the market, yet that 40% makes up probably 80+% of the complaints.
That should tell you all you need to know really.

They are more prone to Mildew and premature Bearing Failure.
Can you buy a FL and have no problems with it for 10+ years?

Absolutely!
But the odds are against you.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I first bought the Maytag Bravos TL/HE. HATED them, loud, do NOT get clothes clean, go out of balance, godawful. I sold them for a fraction of what I paid for them moved onto GE frontloaders. Was ecstatic at first just because they are so quiet and get clothes very clean, I was in the big love. Now after several months I am tired of wiping the gasket, worrying about when my husband doesn't when I'm out of town and having to run the thing with nothing in it to clean it. It's just too much trouble and not worth it. After visiting my mother for a week and using her old school TL/agitator it seemed like heaven. I was nostalgic for my old sturdy Maytags that I had for 18 years and was still going strong when going out the door to make way for the dreaded new ones. Who wants to spend this much brainpower on W/D's? I also miss that fresh laundry smell of the old days. But in the meantime, these new GE's are working fine, no problems it's just I'm paranoid about the smell thing happening and all that wiping down is starting to get to me. I'm OCD about it though so that's part of the problem. I can't afford to get a stinky machine or mildew since this is my second set after ditching the Bravos that I despised so much.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We had a Maytag top loader. It was 35 years old and was still working, the dryer (a hotpoint I think) died and we just decided to replace both.
We replaced them with front loaders, Maytag Epic Z's.

Before I bought, I was apprehensive about the top loader washer, especially about the very small amount of water it used to wash the clothes.

Well after having them for a couple of years now, I can really tell no difference in the way my clothes come out.
We rarely, if ever, wipe anything on the washer.
We just leave the door open as recommended by folks who have them. No odors, mold or any "bad things", whatsoever
out of the washer or the dryer.

Both appliances are on the optional stands, and that makes it very convenient for loading them.

So Yep, We had the top loader for 35 years, it worked great, but who says, "You can't teach an old dog, new tricks?

Now Nunya is not an Old Dog , so pay him no matter (LOL)!

Gary


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Detergent recommendation: Biokleen powder. It was superb at cleaning diapers, one of the more challenging items to keep white I should think. It says it has "oxygen bleach", whatever that means ... I don't want to know. borax? Is there something "oxygenated" about that?

I've used that detergent for about 15 years and loved my FL for about 12 of those. Same one, no odor, no bedtime stories. If I remember I leave the door open; this gets remembered about half the time I'd guess. Not the other half. This is not the first generation of HEs, it's the 3rd or 4th. There was a learning curve.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have had two front load washers. I had a Frigidaire from 2004 to some time in spring 2011 when to suspension in it broke and the parts were more than 2/3 the cost of it new. I never had trouble with it molding up. A few times if the door was closed or clothes left in too long it would smell some but a hot wash with cascade fixed that. The next machine I got was a Samsung steam vrt fl. That thing works even better. I never have smell if the door is let open between wash days no mold either. My clothes are always clean too.

With both machines I mostly used sears powder detergent or Ariel powder and sometimes liquid. I always use softener in most loads that is diluted 50% with water
I have had to clean the drawers On both every few months too. Seems the softeners are to blame for that mess as its always more on the side where that cup is. The Samsung has a super hot cleaning cycle and I use that every few months as well.

I like my front loader and would never go back to traditional top load


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I love mine. I have the Duet pair. I've never used liquid fabric softner in mine. Instead I use vinegar in it's place. I normally wash 3-4 times a week and always run a last quick load of nothing but Clorox. I wipe the rubber dry, take the soap dispenser out and wipe both the dispenser and the inside of compartment. I leave the washer door open and haven't had a single problem with mold/mildew or smells. I spent a lot of money on this set and am doing my best to make sure they last. It takes less than 5 minutes to clean up my washer when I'm done with laundry.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Sandy808 - where did you get your Speed Queen for $600? We need to buy all new appliances and we have decided on Speed Queen washer & dryer but $729 is the lowest I have seen their basic model at. $829 for their top end and $779 for the middle model. Also which model do you have? Thanks!


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

You can "usually" keep the mold and mildew under control in a FL with due diligence of leaving the door open, wiping the gasket clean after every use and wash your whites last with clorox.

However one thing you are stuck with is the inherent design flaw of the pressure on the bearings, the more you use it and the larger the average load the faster they wear out.
FL are notorious for blowing bearings out within 3-7 years.
The "average" life expectancy of a front load machine has always been about 25% less than top loaders.
Even though BOTH have gone down considerably over the past 30 years, a top loader 30 years ago was probably 20+ years life expectancy where as today it is only 14 years. Also and in a way more importantly is the "half life" and repair cost. If your front loader which on average cost more to buy to start with has bearing problems in 3-7 years it would cost about 50-75% of the cost of a new machine to repair it. Whereas the cost for repairing Top Loaders is less on average plus on average cost less to buy also. So a top loader is less likely to need repair within 10 years and if it does is more likely to be WORTH Repairing.

http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1367&doc_id=236204&dfpPParams=ht_13,industry_consumer,bid_240,aid_236204&dfpLayout=blog


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

When front loaders first came out, I was delighted, because I had heard that they were more energy efficient than top loaders. As time has elapsed, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the energy analysis is flawed. Or maybe I should say that the life-cycle analysis is flawed.

Nunyabiz points out that average life expectancy has gone down. If FL machines are having major problems (requiring replacement) within half as many years as older machines, then you have to buy a machine twice as often. Surely then energy and materials that go into manufacturing should be included in the analysis, but I have not seen them mentioned.

A complaint that I see mentioned again and again is the amount of time is takes to complete a load. If the electricity is running twice as long for the FL as for older machines, how can that be an energy savings?

Furthermore, if we take a holistic view of sustainability, we have to account for the materials included in the washer. The machines are large and look as if they take more steel, but I can't vouch for that. I am certain that they utilize more rare earths and hazardous materials, however, because the cycle and water-level controllers are electronic.

Even if I could be convinced (with clear and complete data) that FL machines save water and energy through their entire life-cycle, I would need to be convinced that they save money for the owner. From what I've read here and elsewhere, between the initial cost, the frequency of repairs, the cost of repairs and the shorter life of FL compared to TL (older ones in particular), the FL machines cost more.

I own a Maytag A606 that is about 40 years old. So far all I've ever had to replace are rubber items that have worn out. And the machine is so transparent, that I've been able to replace them myself. No training or anything. I just opened her up, saw what was leaking, bought the part and put it in. Now that's sustainability.

All this is nothing new to many of you. But I'd like to do something productive, other than rail against "intrusive government". Would anybody be interested in a forum topic such as "guidelines for energy star washers". Those with training in appropriate fields would contribute to a discussion of every factor that should realistically be considered before a washer can be considered energy efficient. The end result would be a report to EPA.

If there is a group outside of Gardenweb that's already working on a similar project, I would like to know about it.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I figured out the difference between my HE top loader Vs the closest FL I could find in size between both electricity and water came out to between $7-$10 per YEAR.
About 75 cents a month doing on average 4-6 loads a week.

Now ask me if I care about .75cents a month considering a FL would 'most likely" cost far more to buy and to maintain.
and doesn't clean any better.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

debddigger: "When front loaders first came out, I was delighted ..."

Wow. You were paying attention to such matters in the mid-1930s?

"Nunyabiz points out that average life expectancy has gone down."

That is a statement that, in the medium run, at least, is true of all major appliances. Materials costs have gone up, and shipping costs from factory to dealer have gone up, so most manufacturers are using lighter gauges of steel, substituting nylon gears for sintered metal gears, etc. Fortunately, modern manufacturing techniques have allowed more precision in parts tolerances, and lubrication technology has advanced as well, so we may see a reverse of the trend, with longer-lived light weight machines. But there is no difference between front-loading washing machines and top-loading washing machines in the rate of change of longevity over the years.

"From what I've read here and elsewhere, between the initial cost, the frequency of repairs, the cost of repairs and the shorter life of FL compared to TL (older ones in particular), the FL machines cost more."

Such allegations are completely unsubstantiated, and quite probably are untrue. No reliable data supports either of the propositions that, (1) as a group, front-loading automatic washing machines, which have been around much longer than top-loading automatic washing machines, have shorter service lives than top-loading automatic washing machines built at the same time, or (2) as a group, front-loading automatic washing machines require more repairs during their service lives than top-loading machines.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1367&doc_id=236204

http://knoji.com/pros-and-cons-of-front-loading-vs-top-loading-washing-machines/

http://www.allbrandservicenaperville.com/products-washer.html

http://fixitnow.com/wp/2009/10/28/front-loading-washer-corrosion-contagion-a-menagerie-of-metallic-misery/

http://discussions.consumerreports.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=display&webtag=cr-washers&tid=1042

http://www.everydaycheapskate.com/dear-mary/the-front-loader-debate-continues/


=========================================================
""If all of this is not enough, recent studies of consumer-reviews posted across the Internet show a trend of U.S. front-loading washers to have problems with bearing failure usually within the first six years, with the repair costs close to a replacement cost.""
=========================================================

""Uses two bearings per shaft, supported on front and back, as opposed to just one bearing on the back of the tub. This provides greater durability over time and can prevent premature bearing failure which is more likely to occur with a front load design."
=======================================================

the only sideways drum design that I have seen that takes away this flaw is the Staber and it is one of their main selling points is that it takes away the design flaw of regular front loaders.
It is technically a top loader though.

http://www.staber.com/frontloadwashercomparison

Everywhere I look I see nothing but talk about design flaws with front loaders, been this way for decades.
Every repairmen I have ever asked either in person or online all say the same thing.
So to each his own, but personally i wouldn't have a front loader unless it was given to me.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Nunyabiz1: "Everywhere I look I see nothing but talk about design flaws with front loaders, been this way for decades."

What used to be called idle gossip or old wives' tales -- that is, unsubstantiated rumor, repeated over and over by those who lack knowledge and made "true" by its repetition -- now is called urban legend, and you have provided a textbook example of urban legend.

Neither "fact" matches the owners' reports of frequency of repair on Consumer Reports. The top loaders and front loaders have figures that are almost identical. The most reliable, among front loaders, are the LG and Whirlpool models (tied), followed closely by Frigidaire and Kenmore (tied). The most reliable, among top loaders, are the Roper models, followed by Frigidaire, then Kenmore, GE, and Whirlpool (tied). Maytag does poorly in both front and top loader categories. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=520941

Front-loading washers are mechanically simple compared to top-loaders, with the main motor normally being connected to the drum via a grooved pulley belt and large pulley wheel, without the need for a gearbox, clutch, or crank. ... A commercial washing machine is intended for more frequent use than a consumer washing machine. Durability and functionality is more important than style ... Most laundromat machines are horizontal-axis front-loading models, because of their lower operating costs (notably lower consumption of expensive hot water). ... Most large-scale industrial washers are horizontal-axis machines ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washing_machine

Among the claimants to being the maker of the first true washing machine, Miele, which introduced its washing machine to the market in 1899, is high on the list. For 114 years, Miele has been selling front-loading washing machines. An appliance maker with an unmatched reputation for quality and durability, surely Miele would have noticed by now if for over a century it had been making and selling washing machines with an inherent design flaw and an excellent warranty policy, don't you think?

The first "true" or modern automatic washing machine was the American Bendix, introduced in the mid-1930s; it was a front-loading design. It was an idea whose time had come, obviously, because by the start of World War II, 15,000,000 of them had been sold. Don't you think that, perhaps, if the horizontal axis was a design flaw, some of those millions of buyers might have noticed it? Or, when Bendix introduced its successor model in the early 1950s, that by then it would have seen the error of its ways and offered a top-loader instead? But the new Bendix, like the old one, kept on with the front-loading design.

In our environment, we see appliances with high speed of rotation horizontal axis designs every day: they are called "airplanes," and the drive mechanisms for the propellers (or, in turbojets or turbofan engines, impellers) share a lot in common with the mechanics of front-loading washers. Do you hear a lot of aircraft falling out of the sky because of bearing failures in their engines? Have you ever seen a top-loading airplane? (Well, yes, you have: it's called a "helicopter," and they crash a lot.)


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

again you choose to believe what you wish.
Front loaders are less reliable, more expensive to repair, cost more in general to buy, last on average at least 3+ years less than top loaders, are prone to mold and mildew.
Have a clear design flaw that promotes premature bearing failure.

Other than that they are great.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

"Do you hear a lot of aircraft falling out of the sky because of bearing failures in their engines? Have you ever seen a top-loading airplane? (Well, yes, you have: it's called a "helicopter," and they crash a lot.)"

The above comments are so Michele Bachmann intelligence.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

""""Do you hear a lot of aircraft falling out of the sky because of bearing failures in their engines? Have you ever seen a top-loading airplane? (Well, yes, you have: it's called a "helicopter," and they crash a lot.)"

The above comments are so Michele Bachmann intelligence.""
=============================================================

ROTFL I was thinking about the same thing, I mean what can you say to such cretinistic acumen?

Plain common sense shows that if you have a drum lying on its side with only one contact point on just one end,(asymmetrical bearing load) then you put several pounds of water and clothing in that drum and spin it with the water and clothes going up to the top then falling to the bottom over and over and always slightly off balance then you have a recipe for bearing failure.

Think of this way, take your car tire/wheel & bearings.
The weight is directly over the bearing where it is supposed to be, (radial) or designed to take the load straight down from the side (thrust) and even then the tire must be balanced really well with those small weights around the wheel rim.
This is how bearings are designed to work, direct pressure straight down top or side.
Now just imagine if you took a wheel rim that was 3 feet deep and put the tire on the outside edge and then didn't balance the tire at all.
The weight is no longer over the top of the bearing it is being forced in a way that the bearing was never designed to function, the pressure would be super hard on the top and pushing sideways on the bottom and off balance.
Those bearings in that car would disintegrate in no time.

This is basically what happens in a Front Loader.

On top of that there are really several designs flaws.
Another blatant design flaw which you can see on every front loader more than 1 year old is if you take the drum out and look at the spider support, every one of them is made of aluminum or pot metal and every one of them is corroded due to the fact that they are in contact with water and most have "Stainless steel drums & Aluminum spiders" this is absolutely ridiculous as this will without question cause "galvanic corrosion" period.
and this corrosion eats away at the areas which are supposed to be sealed to keep water away from bearings.
So you will in a short period of time get the corrosion, which will cause water contact with your bearings.

it is really the stupidest thing I have ever seen, it is if they actually designed it to FAIL.

Top loaders do not suffer this malady.
No water comes in contact with anything like that, bearings are taking the load in a way they were designed to do and short of total tub failure the bearings do not get contaminated with water.

http://fixitnow.com/wp/2009/10/28/front-loading-washer-corrosion-contagion-a-menagerie-of-metallic-misery/


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

It is true that a front loader is mechanically more complex than your classical upright standing drum, especially if you consider that it spins at 1100 rpm to get the laundry much drier than a top loader can (energy saving in the dryer!). That is one of the reason why they are more expensive.

Your link about corrosion mentions GE, Whirlpool, and Frigidaire. These are brands that traditionally do not have experience building front loaders. I can guess that indeed they might have design flaws...
We have a 20 year old Miele that runs great. No mold, no corrosion, the laundry smells fresh (and not the residual detergent).


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Our Top Loader spins at 1100 rpm also.
However I believe many front loaders spin far higher than 1100rpm.

Your 20 year old Miele probably has a cast iron or some other decent material for the spider arm.
From what I have seen even Miele has gone to a "aluminium and magnesium" cast material, although I do believe that they at least do coat them with some sort of black paint which certainly has to help.
But of course Miele cost quite a bit more.

There really is zero excuse for any manufacturer using aluminum spider arms connected to a stainless drum though, that is just insane.
Even if they were to add a rubber or plastic washer/plate to separate the two metals you still have the corrosion from the chemicals that will affect aluminum WAY more than stainless.
hell they would be better off probably using thick plastic, like polypropylene or something, rather impervious to chemicals, lighter and with the right catalyst can be very strong.
Then you still have the bearing problem.
I don't think that manufacturers actually care about anything that even resembles quality anymore.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Nunyabiz: "again you choose to believe what you wish."

A modern fad holds that everything is opinion, and that an opinion that is shouted loudly enough and repeated often enough becomes "truth." I do not follow that fad; instead, I subscribe to the old-fashioned theorem that there are such things as "facts."

"Front loaders are less reliable"

The fact is that the huge database (somewhat more than 300,000 responses) that is the Consumer Reports frequency of repair survey of washing machines does not support your opinion, and indeed suggests the opposite. Now, the Consumer Reports survey is not a "scientific" survey; the respondents were not randomly selected: they were self-selected. But it has a huge sample size, and that alone gives it very high credibility in my opinion. And a very high percentage of the Consumer Reports respondents -- approaching 100 percent -- were responding based upon each person's own direct experience with a specific washing machine; it is not an anecdotal repetition of a third hand rumor of some person who read something somewhere else that somebody's neighbor's cousin had such and such problem. The person who shouts the loudest and repeats most often the unsubstantiated rumors about front-loading washing machines in these forums proudly proclaims that he has never owned a front-loading washing machine and that he has no experience operating one; I accord his opinions a very low credibility.

I place great credibility in the history of Miele, which has been making perhaps the most highly regarded washing machines in the world for 114 years, front-loading washing machines -- that's a fact -- and continues to believe (as shown by its current model line up) that front-loading technology is superior for washing machines to top-loading technology.

I also stand by my own small sample size anecdotal history: my parents were among the earliest of the 15,000,000 early adopters of front-loading automatic washing machines before World War II (at that time, top-loading automatic washing machines did not exist), and I inherited their original Bendix -- still operating -- in the early 1970s. It never suffered a bearing failure in more than three decades of hard use. We bought our own new washing machine when we got married, a Westinghouse brand front-loader, and that machine served us faithfully through raising the next generation of our family, until we replaced it in 1995. It never suffered a bearing failure, either. Our 1995 replacement washing machine, a Frigidaire branded Electrolux front loader, served us until 2011, when we replaced it with our current Samsung. The Frigidaire never suffered a bearing failure, either.

Did we ever have repairs on those old front loading machines? Yes: the on/off valves on the two water supplies (especially the cold water supply) on the Westinghouse required a couple of service calls. I had to replace (DIY) the door interlock mechanism on the Frigidaire, and to the end, the Frigidaire would shut itself off when we tried to wash tennis shoes in it and a shoe would hit the door when it tumbled. But there were no bearing failures on either machine, and the spiders never gave out in either of those machines.

You undoubtedly have noted that the Frigidaire had a shorter life than the Westinghouse which in turn had a shorter life than the Bendix. Even our small sample illustrated that the durability of these major appliances declined in the six decades from the mid-1930s to the mid-1990s. But where the 1995 Frigidaire was much lighter than the early 1970s Westinghouse it replaced, the current Samsung is heavier than the Frigidaire, so perhaps the trend will reverse; we certainly hope so.

"This is how bearings are designed to work, direct pressure straight down top or side.
Now just imagine if you took a wheel rim that was 3 feet deep and put the tire on the outside edge"

As I have pointed out in an earlier post, the shafts for the propellers of propeller airplanes and for the impellers of turbojet airplanes are designed in exactly the way that you say bearings and NOT designed to work, with horizontal axes and the bearings at one end and a large rotating weight at the other. Yet every day, airplanes take off from New York to Tokyo and complete the round trip from Tokyo to New York the next day, and they often make ten such round trips within a month and go months between servicing. On every trip, the horizontal shafts inside each engine on those airplanes complete many more rotations than the horizontal shafts in any domestic washing machine will complete in their entire service lifetimes, and yet the bearings do not fail. How do you explain such an anomaly, if, as you say, horizontal axis designs with the bearings at one end only are an inherent design flaw and doomed to failure?


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

bhoublon: "It is true that a front loader is mechanically more complex than your classical upright standing drum

The (anonymous) author of the long Wikipedia "Washing Machine" entry disagrees:

"In most top-loading washers, if the motor spins in one direction, the gearbox drives the agitator; if the motor spins the other way, the gearbox locks the agitator and spins the basket and agitator together. Similarly if the pump motor rotates one way it recirculates the sudsy water; in the other direction it pumps water from the machine during the spin cycle. Because they usually incorporate a gearbox, clutch, crank, etc., top-loading washers are mechanically more complex than front loading machines."

Here is a link that might be useful: The Wikipedia article


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Do you think the bearings on that airplane are the same as a $1000 washing machine? LOL
the bearings probably cost more than your house, custom made and designed to do exactly what they do.
This isn't even apples vs oranges.
You are trying to compare a steaming pile O poo to a 5 star dinner.
There wouldn't be a problem with front loaders if they spent the money to design them properly and use parts and materials they should be using.
however that front loader would cost about $10,000 or more.

""' I subscribe to the old-fashioned theorem that there are such things as "facts."""

Fox news facts maybe.

This post was edited by Nunyabiz1 on Thu, Jan 10, 13 at 19:51


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Nunyabiz1: "There wouldn't be a problem with front loaders if they spent the money to design them properly and use parts and materials they should be using. however that front loader would cost about $10,000 or more."

Oho. Now we are making progress. You have been asserting adamantly that a horizontal axis washing machine is a DESIGN error. Now you suggest that it is a matter of materials only. Progress.

Now, will you accept my anecdotal evidence, or, failing that, Consumers Union's overwhelming statistical evidence, that front-loading washing machines have been manufactured, sold, and used over three quarters of a century without an epidemic of bearing failures? In my family, we have had (serially) three front-load washing machines that have performed, on average, 25 years of service each without a single bearing failure. The frequency of repair records of Consumers Reports suggest that our family's experience is not an anomaly.

"Fox news facts maybe."

Our principal sources of news in writing are the New York Times and (on-line), http://www.earth.columbia.edu/articles/view/1804. For broadcast news, we rely primarily upon National Public Radio and Now with Alex Wagner on MSNBC. So far as I can recall, in the past dozen years, we have not watched or heard a single story on Fox News. Apparently, you are familiar with Fox News: am I missing something?


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We love our LG's too. 12 years and no mechanical issues except for the fabric softener tray got stuck one time. I had to take the top off to get it to open. (This was a design flaw that is all over the internet with complaints.) We leave the door open...which it tells you to do in the manual...and let it dry. Our clothes come out of the washer almost dry anyway. Takes no time in the dryer. peke


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I feel the same as Peke. I've got a 12 year old Maytag. It got stinky once, but a package of Tide washing machine cleaner did the trick. I took the lightbulb out so that I could leave the door open.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Yes it is always "possible" to make something work by designing it properly.
however I have yet to see a front Loader designed properly, thus they ALL have design flaws.
Pretty simple concept.

It is quite possible, in fact probable that the older machines were at least using the correct materials.

BUT in the past 15-20 years like virtually EVERYTHING else manufacturers main agenda is profit and not quality.
Prices of everything have gone up considerably but consumers WAGES have remained stagnant for at least 30+ years.
Thus the average consumer today could not afford a machine made as well as one 30 years ago.
So manufactures main goal is to make whatever appliance as cheaply as mechanically possible in order to stay within that 1970's stagnant wage in a 2013 world.

A front load machine needs to be over engineered, using much more expensive materials and bearings and coatings and seals etc. To just get them to work at all they are already more expensive than a HE Top Loader.
If they designed and built them properly it would cost twice or more what a top loader would.
The only ones that come close are ones like Miele, they cost more for a reason but even they are not that great either.

Because of the inherent flaws with the design of front loaders they must be built using WAY better bearings that should be designed to handle such a odd asymmetrical load bearing, (none are) need to use materials for the spider arm that can handle chemical exposure and galvanic corrosion (none are) and design a seal that doesn't promote mold and mildew growth (none do that I have seen).

IF a manufacturer did these things they would have a good machine built to last but with current material cost that machine would probably have to sell for about double the cost of the very best top loader.

As for fox news "facts" that refers to what they do, which is propaganda, make up opinions and keep saying it over & over until it becomes a fact to their minions that swallow such manure.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

We have Electrolux front loaders and we LOVE them. They are over-engineered and it is very easy to add extra water etc and customize the cycles, or just push a button and go if you want to keep it simple. They cost a little more but are worth every penny.

Miele is very nice but they don't hold as large a load as the Electrolux models.

Billy


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Nunyabiz1: "Because of the inherent flaws with the design of front loaders they must be built using WAY better bearings that should be designed to handle such a odd asymmetrical load bearing, (none are) need to use materials for the spider arm that can handle chemical exposure and galvanic corrosion (none are) and design a seal that doesn't promote mold and mildew growth (none do that I have seen)."

It does not bother you, not one teensy bit, that the overwhelming weight of emperical evidence of front-loading washing machines in actual use over the past eleven decades is not consonant with your often repeated, often vehemently repeated, hypothesis?

Here is a link that might be useful: We've seen this movie before


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Yes. That's me too.
Front loading washers = low flow toilets.
It takes me 2-3 cycles to get clothes clean.
Not to mention, one cannot open it up mid-cycle to pop something else in.
Not enough water to properly soak clothing overnight (so as not to use chemicals, etc).
I hate them.
Will never, ever ever get one again.
Ever.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I continue to be amazed at the way so many people in the USA ignore anything that happens in the rest of the world (which has been using front loaders very happily without problems for decades). But dismissing the evidence of what happened right here in the USA (as provided by herring_maven) is something extra-special.

> It takes me 2-3 cycles to get clothes clean.

Your machine must be faulty. Do you seriously imagine all the makers of front loaders would still be in business if their machines work as badly as you claim yours does?

If we have something to soak, we use a bucket, or the laundry sink.

Our experience was the opposite - when we moved here from Europe, we were appalled at how bad a job top loaders we encountered did of cleaning relative to the European front loaders we had owned previously. We were delighted when we were able to get a front loader, and we have been very happy with it for the past 4 1/2 years (LG).

This post was edited by Caliente63 on Thu, Mar 14, 13 at 21:38


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

This is not Europe vs. the U.S.A.
This is - my top-loader is a piece of junk and was very expensive. I researched this forum for a year before I bought this thing.

I really wanted something that used less water.
I researched for hours, something that would be better
than top-load vis-a-vis water-use, cleaning abilities, use of electricity. I absolutely did my best to find something better. I didn't.

Is it my machine? Perhaps. But since I don't have the money to do a double-blinded "placebo-controlled" test on these machines, what else do I have to go on? Heresay and anecdotal evidence. Which is what this forum is.

I've spent a LOT of money on this thing. It underperforms and does not get my clothes as clean as a basic top-loader. That's all I ask for. Simple and clean.

I'm only telling my experience.

So there you have it. A case study.

This post was edited by bluesalsa on Fri, Mar 15, 13 at 0:51


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Hey salsa why don't you place an ad on craigslist , ebay or your local trader rag and sell your piece of junk ?

You could take the proceeds , which should be considerable since yours is fairly new and can't be used that much, and buy a budget model top loader ??? They aren't that expensive and you might even make $$$ in the trade.

You'll then be much happier since you won't be walking around in soiled and smelly clothes everyday. That's enough to make anyone cranky.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have had both types of washers and prefer the top loader. Mostly, I can deal with the smell problem with the front loader type (I found a product that fixes that). My biggest complaint is cycle time. Takes friggin all day to wash a few loads. I'm going back to top loading. I also occasionally like to soak a few things in bleach and I can't do a soak cycle with a front loader. Does anyone know of any front loader that lets you do a pre-soak or has fast cycles?


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

@birritteri: is this a trick question? virtually all modern FL machines have pre-soak and fast cycles. My Maytag of 8 years (zero failures so far) definitely has them and we often pre-soak the laundry deemed to be too dirty. A fast cycle is 35 minutes too.

Regarding the merits of FL vs. TL washers, it's so obvious from a technical p.o.v that a FL will clean better with less water (water, not energy is what's saved by a FL) than a TL that it boggles the mind so many would argue otherwise.

The main issue with a FL is that the whole drum is cantilevered and the bearing must withstand more pressure. This is solved by the TL that uses an horizontally-placed drum.

Unlike the FL, a TL machine can't get the gravity help in the washing process and must cover with water all the clothes, i.e. more water and less washing action.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Have a brand new (month old) LG FL. Hate it. Want my old top loader back. The LG doesn't get whites clean. They're washing for the 4th time right now--so how much water is it saving?! I can't soak anything. The dryer doesn't get things really dry in one cycle. They're going back!


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have a 7 year old Bosch condensation dryer, washer and I hve never ever had a musty, moldy smell. I sometimes have a load drying and a load finished in the washer and it has to wait up to an hour to be put in the dryer - I open the washer door. I have not had smelly, musty or odor clothes from doing this.
BUT if you leave clothes in ANY washer - FL or TL - like overnight, past a few hours - and then dry them or think you can just wear them without them smelling - you are mistaken.
My friend has a TL and she does this all the time and her clothes always smell musty. My sister has a FL and does this all the time and her clothes smell too.

7 years of great, clean clothes that have not been worn out by TL agitation, I have short drying times and great washes all round.
I use persil liquid and 7th generation HE liquid. For delicates, I use Perwool because I love how it smells and it cleans really well with very little. My Bosch Axis has been a workhorse that has performed really, really well.

I would NOT tolerate smelly, musty clothes but it is either your particular FL or you leave your clothes in the washer and do not put them in the dryer right away and probably wait over 2 hours to do so....that is what happens with any clothes left in a washing barrel for too long.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Strange postings. I love my LG front loaders. Finally have clean clothes. I use enviro safe, no scent detergent. White vinegar in the bleach thing...add some baking soda.
I use cloth napkins and cloth cleaning, no paper towels. Forget to add a cloth?, hit pause and pop it in...
A load last night sat all night before dryer...no smell. And i have a keen nose.
I've had if for a few years now. No issues. Never use bleach.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I don't think you can make blanket generalizations comparing FL vs TL. There are really three categories - those that are low water usage, TL and FL, and there is still one, the SQ TL that uses the full amount of water. You then have so many brands that all work differently. There are people in all camps that are happy with their choices. In our family we have issues with detergent allergies to the point that in the winter we have to use soap vs a mineral based detergent along with water softeners. We always use double warm rinse and generally half the amount of detergent. In the last couple of years, we have used the following machines-
I have used a Whirlpool FL, stacked, for several weeks in a rental condo that cleaned ok and we did not have issues with smell. We did one cleaning cycle with detergent and followed it with a full cycle without detergent due to allergies. No allergy problems but it was summer and we were in the ocean a lot!
We also used the Maytag Bravos(TL) in the same situation and it did not clean well at all.
My son has the Samsung FL and even running clothing through a cycle with half the amount of detergent and another without and extra rinses, he still has a reaction. The addition of a SQ TL with double rinse was a huge relief for him. There may be a low water machine that works for allergies but I am not sure what it would be. We own about 10 SQ TLs we use in our business because we have to have full water for our application. Due to allergies we have them at home as well. For us, it is more about using adequate water to rinse out the detergent than it is about being a TL. It does clean really well though, much better than our GE Profile we had previously. I am using collars on my husbands white shirts as a benchmark.

" Posted by homeimprovementmom
BUT if you leave clothes in ANY washer - FL or TL - like overnight, past a few hours - and then dry them or think you can just wear them without them smelling - you are mistaken.
My friend has a TL and she does this all the time and her clothes always smell musty. My sister has a FL and does this all the time and her clothes smell too."

This will depend on how much dirt and bacteria remain after the wash cycle, which will be dependent on chemicals and water temperature which increase the solubility of soiling and kill bacteria directly, turbulence (by tumbling or agitator) and effective dilution by the rinse. If you add bleach(chlorine or oxygen based) in sufficient amounts and use hot water(over 140-150 degrees F), especially with underwear loads you are cutting the bacteria count in your machine way down and contamination of subsequent loads.

"7 years of great, clean clothes that have not been worn out by TL agitation"

Or if you have a TL, you could say your clothes have not been worn out by a FL. Movement of the fibers of clothing in washing is part of the equation in determining how clean your clothes will get, whether it is tumbling or agitation. This can happen over a short time with agitation or a longer time with tumbling. I think this is minor when you consider your daily wear and you also get "wear" from chemicals used in washing and the dryer subjects laundry to heat and abrasion as well. Think about how much lint is in the dryer. Many machines, TL and FL have the ability to adjust the amount of movement you subject your clothing to both in strength and amount of time, by using handwash and gentle cycles so that you can use less agitation or tumbling for less soiled or more delicate clothes. I would use these settings if you are worried about wearing your clothes out no matter what the machine. I have washed very delicate antique linens by a good soak and short "hand wash" in a top load. I have also washed raw fibers like unspun wool that way, which would be ruined by too much agitation.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Well I'm in the other camp,
I was first introduced to a front load as a little girl with my moms White Westinghouse, it was so great! When they reintroduced them in the 90's I was the first to run out n spend a small fortune on a new kenmore pair. Today i replaced that set ( yes because of the spotting issue on my darks) but its been wonderful up to this year which was about 15 years of heavy duty use (2 teen boys and a mechanic husband, massive loads and huge bedspreads and sleeping bags,) with no odorous smells or sludge in my seal but i did leave it open when not in use.
Today i bought a kenmore elite royal purple set of front load machines and yes i suspect i paid more for the colour....... well worth it :) tonight i'm folding my first steam washed load ( no dark spots tonight and the ones we had, the steam got rid of) and WOW it's soft and clean cloths! i'm so happy. I could sell these machines all day I really believe so much!

This post was edited by TweetyTobias on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 1:12


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have a Magtag Bravos set. Clothes come out VERY clean, and the washer, unlike the previous post, is so quiet you barely notice it is on.

But it IS preference. i would have tried a front load set had I been able to buy (a US-made) one with a reversible door (or at least have the hinge on the right). For some reason, front load manufacturers seem to think all washers go on the left.

As it is, they do not, and I am still very happy with my efficient top load.

I also saved a TON of money because I didn't need to buy the damn stands to make them a user-friendly height ...


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have the same frigidaire affinity FL the op has and really would NEVER buy a FL again. I just paid 267$ for a door latch so the thing would spin out again (7 YO) I don't mind that so much as I get that things wear out. But the clothes are not clean. I have to wash every thing on the hottest water with an extra rinse. Geez I have a life and DO NOT want to psychoanalyze my laundry appliances, water, or detergents. However I do not have a smell issue and do not leave the door open; I do use bleach occasionally.
We have a horse farm and maybe get dirtier than the typical desk jockey but where is the water savings when you have to run the load twice.
I will be buying a Speed Queen TL soon because according to the salesman the current model will be the last with full water capacity.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have a Bosch FL euro-sized Axxis washer (I live here in US) and with Persil detergent, it gets even old dried on grease like no one's business.

I will never go back to a front loader.

Also, for those on the fence, remember that your detergent is at least 30% of the cleaning equation.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

My Miele W1986 is the third front load in 32yrs. White Westinghouse lasted a reasonable time but the Fridgedare replacement cement counterweights came loose and we decided to go quality. Miele is excellent.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I love the concept of a front loader, but when I looked into buying one, I was put off by reports of short life, frequent repairs, special care and special soap. While the FLs are touted as being so energy efficient that the high purchase price would be recovered in electricity savings, those extra considerations no longer make them economical. My Maytag top loader is 40 years old -- paid $40 for it about 30 years ago. When you consider the energy contained in manufacturing, surely my machine must come out way ahead of machines currently being made that last 10 years at most. As for repairs, I've replaced the water inlet valve, the internal and external hoses, the belts, and the pump. All parts run $15-40 and are available locally or on line. The work is simple -- I did it myself. What takes longest is emptying out the water. Since all the replacements were done within the past 5 years, I doubt that I'll have to make them again, unless I live to be 100. *** But even more important is that I can't use a FL the way I use my current machine. I wear a lot of wool and do not want to dry clean it. I *hand wash by machine* instead. Here's how: When I've accumulated 4 sweaters, I wash them together. First the machine is filled to the lowest setting with warm water. Dawn DW detergent is squirted in and the sweaters are laid in carefully to avoid bubbles. After soaking for 1/2 hour they're spun out at high speed and the machine is filled for a large load with warm water. Soak for 10 minutes, spin, and done. I've asked if this regimen can be done with a FL and the answer has been NO. So until FLs become more reliable and let me to wash the way I want, I'll have to pass them up.


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

Wow debdigger, your experience is mine exactly.

Folks can be holier than though with their FL's, but I'll go ahead and be holier than thou with my 35 year old Maytag, thus not harming some precious salamander with emissions produced from all the myriad factories producing those parts for the the new improved 'stuff'. I like my 16 year old pick-up too. Just fine. Yoda is his name. Small, strong, old and GREEN! (My FL is named Maggie. How original ;->)

A note on front loaders. I have actually looked into getting a Wascomat laundromat front loader, if my Maytag actually dies in a way I can't fix. You can program the water level and length and types of cycles (extra long spins, extra high water level for jeans and poopy diapers, extra rinse cycles!). They are VERY expensive, but dang, I bet it will last the rest of my life!

Fair Winds,

TexasTea


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RE: Does everyone hate front load washers/dryers or is it just me

I have had my Bosch front loader and condensation dryer for over 8 yrs.
My sister has k
Had her lg front loader & washer dryer for the same time. My clothes only end up with that nasty, modly smell when I either / more like one of my teenagers/ sleaves the wash in and the wash sits there for hours or over night with the door closed. In any washer if you leave wet clothes in the washer for hours or over night and then decide to dry them they will stink. My friend has a top loder/ same thing. You have to remove the clothes in a timely matter to dry them or for less stink, at least open the door.


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