Wolf

KitchenAid reviews were too mixed for me, as the bad ones were pretty terrible and the company doesn't seem to stand behind them well. I do love my Wolf, but Elux would've been my other choice. If Thermador is out, I might assume Bosch is, too? Others to consider: Fisher & Paykel or DCS (if you have good service in your area), maybe Miele. It might help if you let us know what things made you rule the others out... Price? Customer Service? Certain features or look?

So Thermadore was first choice, but, reviews did not back up price. So, then Bosch, but, no raving reviews there either. I am trying to look for as much info as I can find rather than base my choice on one or two bad opinions. That said, I am willing to invest a fair amount into my ovens, I just want to hear someone rave about them. Or at least, rave about the company, customer service, repair history. I guess I will research my local access to service for DCS and F&P. Checking out Wolf also. Thank you!

Well, BK You told us what ones to "Not Rave About" so at least I won't.

Good luck with your decision.

Gary

I love my Bosch 800 double ovens. So here's a raving review. It is possible that no reviews means happy customers, no?

They preheat fast, cook evenly and keep temperature. I have two oven thermometers hanging. I am not crazy about the broiler but that may be user inexperience. I am used to a Weber gas grill for broiled foods, altho I did broil inside in my 50 year old double ovens. I bake artisan breads perfectly 2 or more x per week.

I have not self cleaned yet. I do not cook a whole lot anymore, and we are empty nesters, but I know how to cook and can cook well.

Posted by dodge59 (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 16, 12 at 22:11

Well, BK You told us what ones to "Not Rave About" so at least I won't.

Good luck with your decision.

Gary

Mum's the word. Go ahead with Wolf, then.

Another one here who's very happy with a Bosch. No complaints whatsoever after a year of use.

I have single oven bosch 800 and love it as well. From what i've read, double ovens in general are more problematic so perhaps that's why not a lot of raving reviews overall.

Electrolux does get rave reviews here, and you didn't say why you didn't like that one? A lot of the problems were with 2009 or before, and the problems got good response by the company, from what I've heard and read. I have Elux hood vent, 2 fridges, and 1 freezer. The freezer arrived dented... I assume by the warehouse or delivery people, but Electrolux replaced it immediately...No quibbling about whose fault it may have been. That's the only time I've had to deal with them, as our other appliances didn't have problems.

What you're wanting in an oven, though, is what I love about my Wolf E-series oven... Excellent and consistent performance with proven and well-tested technology, testing of every appliance before it leaves the factory, and really good customer service. F&P/DCS has good performing appliances, and responsive customer service, at least in my experience, but also in my experience and area, spotty local tech service. If you're in an urban area, probably not as much of a concern.

Awesome responses, many thanks! Electrolux did get a lot a negative comments from earlier models and I had one salesperson tell me he had customers who had a bad experience w/ customer service. That said, I did fall in love w/ looks of Elux ICON rangetop and may go for it. My appliance dealer here says he stands behind any needed service.

I will revisit Bosch and Wolf, although same SP said Wolf was not worth money in his opinion. Forgot to ask him how much he actually cooks. I could tweak out on perfect baked goods everytime and would pay more for that alone.

Besides their testing every unit, it is Wolf's dual convection technology that puts them above a lot of the other ovens, in my opinion and experience. I have had (too much) experience with other convection ovens, and this is the first one in which I think convection actually makes a big difference and works as I expected. I very rarely have to turn pans or switch racks to make sure things are all evenly brown. We bake almost daily... We bake all the bread and have a weekly pizza night for our big family, plus pies, cakes, and countless cookies. I love using the probe for meats and also breads, and roasting works great, too.

I've had problematic ovens and it's been worth it to me to have one I can count on. Maybe Bosch or Electrolux could have given me consistent results, too... But when I got my Wolf, the current Bosch was a new model for them, and the Elux was just coming out of their electronic board problems. I was tired of dealing with manufacturers and their issues, so went for the one I thought I could count on most.

In the interest of full disclosure, my first Wolf did have some problems with the porcelain cracking at the corners inside the oven after about a year. But I emailed them and sent photos, and they pretty promptly arranged for a replacement. It didn't affect the performance and I only missed a partial day of baking when they did the switch and I did the burn off in the new oven. The 2nd oven works just as wonderfully as the first.

Here is a link that might be useful: Description of dual convection system

We have the Wolf (2012) E series double ovens and have no compliants. They are used daily and have proven reliable. We very much like their look, features and ease of use.

Another vote for Bosch. I've had their 27" 500 series single oven with no problems so far and even, accurate baking. Feedback on Kitchenaid ovens was mixed and negative on GE.

We went with the Advantium 240 and the Wolf E series - I wanted 2 separate ovens in case one dies before the other...

All you Wolfe Oven users - - I know this post is from 2012 and it's 2019 - Are the Wolf oven still going strong!! No Blue porcelain chipping problem? because there are so many threads here and Wolfe law suit etc about the chipping issues - maybe this problem has started in the recent years? Thanks.

You may have seen my many posts in other discussions. I had 3 Wolf double ovens. 2 were promptly replaced because of the porcelain issues. They gave up on me after the 3rd and gave me my money back. One rep actually told me they didn’t make their ovens for people who used them like I did....like almost daily, I guess. Um, what?? The porcelain lasted just a few months and in at least one, I hadn’t even run the self-clean.

I was sad, and continue to be, somewhat, as no other oven I’ve had, including the floor-display Gaggenau I ended up with, has baked as wonderfully as the Wolf. I’m still a big dual-convection believer. Just wish they’d put it in a box that keeps its porcelain. I wish they’d take full responsibility and get that issue fixed, once and for all.

They designed the “M” to make it easier to repair with a bottom that can be replaced but they have chipped too and the corner fans just don’t seem to be as good of design as the dual fans in back were. Also no “convection bake” on the “M”.

So sad! Oh well I will look for another double wall oven! Probably the Bosch 800 or the Benchmark and hope for no chipping!!

Kalapointer, I often wondered what happened with the M bottom replacement when you had all of the issues with your ovens chipping. I’m glad it is not chipping anymore. I do think some are still chipping as one was reported 7/21/2019 on the thread linked below. I think this is the first I have heard of with the induction range. It would be very difficult to determine if the issue is fixed because some ovens take a few years to develop the problem. Mine took 4.5 years. The issue has been documented here for the last 10 years.

“I would also be interested in the status of the class action suit. I am getting the cavity replaced on my 36” Wolf induction range. I took delivery in December 2018 and by June 2019 I had crazing and divots in the porcelain. I did use the self clean and was horrified when they told me first of all it was cosmetic and secondly you shouldn’t use the self clean if you can avoid it with degreasers etc! I had a Kitchen aid for 20 year and the porcelain was completely intact when we removed it, and I didn’t spend $10,000 on it! I told them if I wanted to clean my oven I wouldn’t have bought a self cleaning one! They are paying for the new cavity after going round and round and a supervisor. I am so worried this is just going to happen again with the new cavity and I will have no recourse.”

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2301881/wolf-dual-fuel-df366-enamel-failure-what-to-do#n=83

The sad thing with this is that Wolf seems to have changed their policy about replacing the oven/liner as easily as they have in the past.

________

The M convection would probably work for some depending on how you use the oven. This is why I don’t think it would be as good for others.

-There have been reports here of uneven baking on the sides of the oven.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3628567/wolf-double-m-ovens-has-anyone-experienced-this#n=7

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3364574/wolf-m-uneven-bake-with-three-racks#n=78

-I noticed even Wolf in their video about “how evenly the M baked”, seemed to have unevenness. This is a screen shot of their video.

I was curious about why that might be. It is a common problem with a convection oven anytime the fan sets up a linear flow of air. Wherever the air hits, you have faster evaporation of superficial moisture and faster browning. Manufacturers deal with this by creating turbulence using baffles or double fans or fans that reverse direction periodically.

If you look at this diagram of the verticross system that Wolf had on their website, you can see why you would have over browning on the sides of the oven.

Wolf has since taken this diagram off of their website and replaced it with this.

You might be able to help the problem if you could decrease the fan speed as the “convection bake” mode would do, but that mode is gone on the “M”.

Baking is complex so this effect could be influenced further by the ingredients in the recipe or even the cookware.

This is for a second home - I won't be there everyday for me to test the porcelain issues and keep an eye out. Looks like even with the M series the liner can be changed but what if it chips other areas?!? - do not want to deal with all that.

so will just go with 30" double wall oven - either the Bosch 800 or Benchmark - which ever has the side swinging door!

I'm getting the 42" subzero and 36" Wolfe induction - so won't get the $1000 off with the package deal if I get their oven. Hope to happy the 2k I'll save going with the Bosch

I hope the subzero and the Bosch stainless steel match ok since they will be next to each other.

I will ill create a picture with stock images of the subzero and Bosch oven next to each other and see what you guys think!

Bosch 800 series

Sorry about the three different pictures - it didn't let me post all three at once - saying there is a limit!

My original was go with subzero and wolfe induction because they are good appliances (not because they were the same company) - then I thought of going with the Wolfe E series and was happy that there was a $1000 off promotion due to the package deal.

Now with all the chipping (it being in a second home - I won't be there constantly to keep an eye out for the chipping etc. - I'm sure the warranty will run out before I get the problem!!! - due to the minimal use)

But now I'm nervous about Subzero refrigerator and Bosch double oven next to each other - if the stainless steel will be too noticeably different.

Help me take the decision/plunge!!! (and sleep peacefully!!)

paddyk - I think you'll be fine with whichever choice you go with. You may be overthinking it. If you're not going to be there to keep an eye out for the chipping, then go for the Bosch. If you want to match the stainless, the Wolf and Subzero would probably work better.

By the way, I decided to go with the Bosch instead of the Wolf because of the chipping issue. Also, because I'm spending money on a Miele combi steam oven, I figured I'd be using the Miele more and the Bosch would be there as a (cheaper) second oven and broiler.

I can’t tell anything about the difference in the stainless from the pics, but, personally, I like the Bosch Benchmark the best. I was never a big fan, though, of the way the Wolf stainless is in strips, rather than framing the glass. So that makes the 800 my 2nd choice. :)

Have you investigated the side opening door in person? I suppose I might miss it after having it on my Gaggenau, but after 4 years or so, I’m still not sure if I like it. It seems there’s often people in my kitchen when I need it open. So it’s either a big, VERY hot door swung out sideways into the room, or I try to keep it closer (open only at 90 degrees or so) and risk burning my arm. My oven is at the end of a wall where people might come around the corner, though. So placement and likelihood of company in the kitchen might make a difference.

Will go with Bosch double oven - I think side swing is only in the Benchmark model (although for my needs the 800 series is plenty). My setup in the new kitchen is a tall pantry, then the refrigerator and oven next to the refrigerator - with a counter next to the oven side. So a right swinging door would be nice so it won't bang the refrigerator door and dent it!

Since I'm short - that helps with the double oven reaching into the cavity without a door in my way. Just have to be careful not to spill anything on my feet @wekick.

Thanks you all! I can sleep in peace tonight (atleast until all the appliances come in!!!)

With nice, full-extension racks (which mine is too old to have), you shouldn’t have to reach into the cavity. Will you have an island across from the oven? Because a right swinging door will save your fridge, but block the counter space.

Yes @rhome410 - I have an island in front of the refrigerator and the oven. Thanks for making sure I'm making the correct choice in the right swing or the left swing - Ideally left would have been good but then that comes in the way of the refrigerator door and that might also prevent it from opening completely. So going with right swing - so it opens completely and the counter that I will use will be the island.

Have not purchased my appliances yet - my contractor needs my choice of appliances RIGHT NOW - for electrical and plumbing work that is being done right now! - So if needed I can change from right swing to left or down swing (with the down swing I'm afraid it will dent the refrigerator door (this happened in my current home!)

Excited that I'm out of appliance paralysis! (keeping my fingers crossed for them to all work correctly when they get installed!!)

I’d stay with right-swing as long as you have the island. You don’t want conflict with appliance doors. Really, I think it’s handier to set things across than beside, anyway. I have counter next to my oven, but never set anything there, because of the island. Or, because I carry it to the stainless counter beside the rangetop, since I don’t have to worry about protecting that. :-p

Got it! Makes sense! Me too - in my current house where I have a counter right next to the oven and an island right in front - I use the island to place things from a hot oven more than the counter next to it!!

Right swing it is.

Cant believe I feel so giddy and feel a heavy load off my shoulder just because I made my oven choice - the rest of my appliances were not this hard!!!