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Fisher Paykel Dishwasher Drawers-do you have them?

beekeeperswife
13 years ago

I am in need of guidance. From what I can gather, it's a safe thing to go with FP DDs. Now then, what model?

Do you like/love yours? What features should I be looking for? I cannot find them anywhere--Lowe's sells them but they only display the single drawer. The Sears Outlet near me is listed as a seller--but their inventory is sporadic since it is a scratch and dent store and they never know when one will be in.

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!

Comments (112)

  • clueless_70
    12 years ago

    cottonpenny-
    Don't know if it's OK to say this in polite company, but I think my mother's were free!! You know, if you spend a certain amount at the supermarket each week, you get a free place setting, and she got herself a whole service that way!! Definitely 1970's, and still going strong after all these years!!

    Beekeeper's wife, your photographs are amazing. If I saw that on a commercial, I wouldn't believe it. This machine is going on my wish list!

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I guess you could say the proof is in the pudding......

    I guess you have to know what that "Dirt" recipe is to get that humor.

  • dadoes
    12 years ago

    BeekeepersWife,

    Which cycle was used and what's your detergent of choice?

    I notice your DD has the on-board water softener, and that you're apparently either not using rinse aid or the dispenser needs a refill. :-)

  • Caddidaddy55
    12 years ago

    As long as beekeperswife got this post going again, I just wanted to add this. Due largely to this post we recently purchased the F&P duel wash drawers. We absolutely love them. As we are empty nestes we normally only run the top drawer, and DW loves not having to bend over to load and unload. I agree with whoever said that most problems were due to improper installation or loading. I saved $700 because there was a dent in the top drawer skin. The replacment was $88 plus TX and shipping and literally took about 2 minutes to do. I installed the drawers myself being carefull to read all the instructions for once, and made sure it was perfectly level. I expalined to everyone who might load it to make sure nothing stuck above the surface where the cover seals because it could leak or damage the cover motors. Yesterday was Thanksgiving and the top drawer was running while the family gathered and we finished food prep. You couldn't even hear it run. After dinner we loaded the dishes in the bottom drawer, and emptied the top drawer to receive desert dishes lster.

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    dadoes,
    I either used Normal or Heavy, I can't remember...this test was done in the summer. We do have the water softener and we do keep the salt & rinse aid filled. Probably had just run out after that cycle.

    I will add, my glasses have never looked so good. I wonder if the water softener is partially responsible for that.

    I have noticed that the dishes do come out clean on the Fast cycle too.

  • MaggiM
    11 years ago

    I'm hoping one of the experts here can answer this. The soap dispenser - should this be open after the cycle is complete? How does the machine actually dispense the soap? There are two compartments, should I fill both? What is the capacity of the rinse agent tank?

    Love the machine and once I relearned how to load it I get great results. I'm just curious about the soap.

  • dadoes
    11 years ago

    The detergent dispenser should not be open at end of a run, unless the user forgot to close it at the start. Detergent is dispensed by flushing the fill flow through the cup. A diverter directs the flow through either the prewash or main wash cup at the appropriate time.

    Follow your user instruction manual for when to fill the prewash cup. Some cycles run a prewash period, some don't ... and the programmed cycle sequences have changed over time through the successive models, and depending on the target marketing area for a given model (US/Canada, European market, Asian market, NZ/Aus).

    The rinse aid dispenser tank holds approx 50ml, which should last for about 25 loads at mid-level dosing. Don't fill it further than to just see the liquid coming up at the opening. It can be tricky to fill due to the angle-of-attack. Use a small funnel for better aim, and extra light if needed. Spilled rinse aid can cause excess foaming.

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    MaggieM, mine does that sometimes and I don't know why. It's very much once in a blue moon kind of thing.

    Funny that this thread popped back up. This was from when I was thinking about buying them the FIRST time. I have since moved, built a new house and installed 2 single tall drawers, one on each side of the sink.

    Still loving them

  • MaggiM
    11 years ago

    Dadoes - Thanks - that was quick.

    And now I can stop caring if the soap dispensing drawer is open or closed. It seems to be my lower drawer and only on a rare occasion. Not worth thinking about other than to wonder how soap does dispense.

    RE the rinse agent, I've been just squirting a little in every now and then. It struck me I should just find out how much it holds, measure it out and pour through a funnel.

  • dadoes
    11 years ago

    Do be sure to close the dispenser before starting a load, otherwise the detergent will all be flushed out by the spray arm during the first phase of the cycle and there won't be any for the main wash period.

  • kurtzicus
    11 years ago

    Since this thread is active, I just have to add a second (or third) (or fourth) vote for the F&P dish drawer. We put one in (actually I put it in) and it's worked like a charm.

    I have yet to put "dirt" through it, but the install was a breeze (has a plug end on it) and we had the cabinet made before hand (give the cabinet makers the specs of the dish drawer) so the actually install work was really really simple.

    Good luck.

  • MaggiM
    11 years ago

    I do close the dispenser since that seemed to make sense that it should be closed. But all the research in the user guide for the volume of the rinse agent was a good thing. I learned two things:

    1. Even without an LCD display I do have delay start AND I found out how to read fault codes.
    2. I can lock the controls so that when I'm playing bartender at a big party (my unit is in an island) I don't keep starting up the dishwasher accidentally.

  • zedluck
    11 years ago

    Has anyone installed the FP tall double drawer? If so, does it fit in standard base cabinetry or do you need something taller than the standard 36" cabinet height?

  • dadoes
    11 years ago

    Installation instructions and measurements are available for download in .pdf format at F&P's web site.

    Per F&P info, Tall units are a little higher and deeper.

    Tall = 22-15/16" deep, height adjusts from 34" to 36-1/2"

    Standard = 22-1/2" deep, height adjusts from 32-5/16" to 34-5/8"

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fisher & Paykel : DishDrawers

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    10 years ago

    Just want to add another very happy DD user. We installed ourselves 3 months ago. We were undecided for about 2 years since our other was working just ok. Our kitchen is a very efficient galley and a standard dishwasher when that big door lowered just to load, or even to put in something small that would take up the entire 'highway'. Every sales person gave me a 'no comment', 'no one buys it so i don't know', etc. It has been great. Cleans well on eco. So quiet. We cook ALOT from scratch and it holds everything. May run it twice a day on a weekend but so easy to load and unload. Yes, a learning curve as with any new appliance. So great for a busy work week when we mostly have just coffee cups, travel mugs and small bowls and containers. Running it every other day. I hated running the old one with just the top rack full. We just have the single tall DD. Plenty big for even large platters. I did immediately ordered extra side folding shelves since we have so many smalls. They fill up quickly and always get spotless clean. I have checked the drain a couple times just to be sure. One dime size piece of kale. No bending over ever. So easy to access the drain with a flip-up cage.
    We installed a full pull out drawer where the lower unit for a double would be to hold my cast iron and crueset stock pots. Love having the extra storage.
    Finger crossed that it has a long life with us.
    I've not used a rinse aid yet. Just not sure what to buy.
    It was tricky to install since it is not just a slide in and level job. (We put extra cleats underneath on both sides) just extra security since it is suspended in the cabinet area.
    Reading this thread last year is what sold me. So glad i did.

  • finestra
    10 years ago

    My sister and my empty nester inlaws both had the FP DD and both replaced within three years. It took months for repairs to be completed because they had to keep ordering parts. Both were serviced within the first year. They don't live in the same area, so it wasn't the same repair people. I would check the online reviews to see what the repair rate are for them. They may have fixed whatever the problem was in the last year.

  • CT_Newbie
    10 years ago

    Any more updates on this? Consumer reports rated them 66 vs 80 for some regular DWs. That seemed like a big difference. I went into Sears and they told me they stopped carrying them, maybe a year ago because there were so many complaints/repairs. It could be $500 for one repair.
    I was wondering if they had made improvements since Sears dropped them

    I was thinking of either getting two full DWs or one full one and a FP (not sure tall or std). The issue is that when we occasionally have dinner for 12-14 people, the regular DW isn't enough. We end up hand washing the salad plates/forks and using them for dessert and we hand wash the pots and maybe a few other things that won't fit in the load. We don't entertain that much now, but I can see it increasing with our new house. We have 3 yr old twins so I was thinking the half drawer would be good for glassware each day. Right now, I hand wash their sippy cups and dishes after each use (that's 4x a day) as I didn't want stacks and stacks of plastic stuff. I do give them correlle plates to use. I can see having a days worth and then running the FW. Right now, we run our DW every 3 days or so.

    The sales person said some of the full dishwashers have a half cycle, but I'd have to not have any dishes in the bottom because you don't want the food from that to accidentally spray on the "clean" dishes/glasses in the top rack. I kind of didn't like all of the space taken up for the rare time I would use 2 full DW but it is hard for me to predict our needs as our family grows and elderly MIL ends up staying with us more, etc. But we will have a big kitchen

    Would a home warranty plan help minimize repairs for
    the FP? What combo do you recommend 1.5 DWs or 2 Full.

    For background, I once bought a vanity at Lowes despite some reviews about a problem with the sink not draining completely as I thought it was a one-off but I had the same problem. I was really annoyed but fortunately, was selling the apt.

    Thank you!

  • attofarad
    10 years ago

    I just installed one, and I find it noisy -- not as loud as the 23 year old GE it replaces, but a world apart from a truly quiet one. We really haven't used it yet, except to wash some clean dishes that had been in storage, so I cannot comment on the cleaning, or even the loading. My wife, who insisted on getting the drawers (back problems, she will use the top drawer 90% of the time) was amazed by the noise, but wouldn't come out and say it. Her current DW is a mid-scale Miele, and I cannot hear it run except a bit when it pumps out.

  • CT_Newbie
    10 years ago

    Thanks for posting. I don't mind noise that much (though I do prefer faster cycle times). It really only takes me a few minutes to wash the kids' cups and dishes but I have a lot of allergies and the soap irritates me and even the kitchen gloves bother me a little.

    Are you using it as your primary dishwasher? Please keep me posted as to how it is once you start using it more.

    Anyone elee? Thank you

  • beekeeperswife
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Been a full year with mine in the new house. I don't find mine noisy at all, they are the integrated ones, perhaps the wood front makes them quieter? So quiet that we usually try to open them when they are running. Don't want to jinx anything so I'm not saying what I'm thinking about how they are working ;-)

    You need to have them installed properly. That is key. Personally I have my doubts about all the Sears guys installing them correctly. Maybe that's why THEY have issues. Good installers go to training at F&P. Not saying they have to go, but when you hear someone telling you about their last visit to training classes it gives you a good feeling.

    I do use the Fast cycle a lot and it works just fine.

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    10 years ago

    ct-newbie. If you have the room for two dishwashers i would recommend a tall dish drawer for one of those. You have alot of 'smalls', cups and bowls and everyday / all day sippies and lunch plates, snack plates. I have the tall dish drawer for 6 months now. Works great, easy loading, not at all loud. What we use everyday is more available...I used to do coffee cups, drink glasses,travel mugs, glass lunch containers by hand. No more. So easy to load and run every other day during the week and often twice a day weekend.
    It has to be poor installation, and/or not loading properly. Not using the correct settings for the load.
    Or something falling below the cage to prevent the arm from spinning. I often have to look to see if the running button is lit as it is often very quiet. Noise is directly related to what is being cleaned...a spray of water hitting different surfaces will be different on glass than a big thick plastic bowl. A drumming sound.
    If your cabinet frames are particle board rather than solid timber, you might need some extra support.
    If anyone in your family is the square-peg-in-round-hole type personality...stuffs with brute force, does not bother to put lids back on things, (lid not tight on tomato juice then lays it on its side in fridge so it leaks, lol, etc) may not be the one for you...but that is tough on any appliance.
    If i had the room for two dish drawers, one on either side of sink, that would be my choice now that i have one...
    if never having used one, i would get a regular full and a drawer for everyday things.

    (i'm running an extra load this morning right now...dog bowls and big things. I can hear it more than usual because of the big surfaces the water is hitting)

  • CT_Newbie
    10 years ago

    Thank you Sleeven and Beekeeper! Beekeeper, do you also think I should get the tall drawer? Have you heard of either drawer being better than the other? I was thinking maybe it could go under the microwave drawer, though it might be able to fit next to it if I go with a 24"? microwave drawer. I fear I might be going overboard with appliances but that's another thread

    We don't cram things in but i have, on occasion, chipped a glass because I was rushing or accidentally put in a wine glass thinking it would fit and then crack. Interestingly, the GE washer repair man said cramming the washer abuses the machine and he could tell I didn't overload my wash. He was there to fix a torn gasket - maybe a pen or keys got stuck

    I asked one of the KDs about the FP. He said his guys had trouble installing it and they can install anything. I think something didn't align or close? Ultimately, at his expense, he paid a FP servicer to install it. So again, we're back to installation. Did they read the manual? I didn't ask for obvious reasons. He said he liked the concept but not the execution (he meant FP's execution, not his installers) :). He said they were delicate machines. But I can't help but be intrigued by it and I don't like the thought of a second DW sitting half empty when I could have drawer space for something else.

    Thank you!

    This post was edited by CT_Newbie on Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 23:36

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    10 years ago

    I would not get a dish drawer if it can not be placed at counter height. Sort of defeats the convenience and purpose if down low and under another appliance. If it is a second dishwasher for everyday glasses etc, a reg drawer i suppose would be fine. I have the tall drawer as my only washer and works for the two of us just fine.
    Like all dishwashers i have had, i do sometimes need to re-load things and re-arrange after DH, niece, sloppy friend, (haha), puts something in catty-whompus. Would hate doing that down on the floor level or bending over.

    It isn't the manual instructions at installation, it is the design of the clip system, the design overall. It does not universally fit all installations as all cabinets are not alike. It often needs tweaking. Reading the instructions is a must for sure. But an installer needs a bit more 'outside the box' thinking skills if all does not go smooth. We installed ourselves and added support cleats and double checked everything twice.
    I'm always surprised how many people do not read manuals. For their appliances, their cars...

  • dadoes
    10 years ago

    I installed my DishDrawer myself 10 years ago. Then uninstalled it and moved it to a new house. No trouble either time, follow the included installation instructions.

  • soibean
    10 years ago

    I have two F&P Tall double dishdrawers. I definitely agree with sleevendog - don't get one if it's not going to be at counter height. With the double drawers, I almost always use only the top (tall) one. The bottom gets used occasionally for overflow, but it is cramped and not nearly as convenient. The tall tubs, when mounted under the counter, are fantastic in my opinion. I would get them again in a heartbeat.

  • CT_Newbie
    10 years ago

    Thank you all! Yes, we can put it at counter height. I see what you mean. Thanks for the clarification on the install

  • attofarad
    10 years ago

    If you plan on installing an airgap (required in California) for the dual drawer, I suggest that you get the dual-airgap (2 in 1). It will lessen or eliminate the possibility of waste water from one drawer backing into the other. I understand that there is a simple flap valve on the output of each drawer, but I have read that these sometimes fail. Unfortunately, the dual airgaps are expensive, like 6x to 10x the price of a standard cheapie.

  • CT_Newbie
    10 years ago

    Thanks Atto! I was only planning to buy a single drawer since it is in addition to a full regular DW. Is there a specific air gap needed for a single tall drawer?

  • dadoes
    10 years ago

    Single drawer units don't need a special air gap.

    Double-drawer units do because they're two separate dishwasher mechanisms, each having a drain hose. The dual air gap is internally split to prevent internal backflow from one drain hose to the other.

    However, depending on your drain configuration for two dishwashers you may need a dual air gap if both are going to drain to one plumbing point.

  • gpwuster
    10 years ago

    I have mine since 2009 and love them. No issue/repair ( knock on wood ) and I have one drawer on each side of my sink so no lower drawer to bend over to :)

  • ILoveCookie
    10 years ago

    I have the 2-drawer one. The previous owner put them in, and I don't know exactly when it was installed, but I've using both the top and bottom drawers for almost 3 years without any problems. Husband loves the top drawer as it doesn't require any bending to load/unload things.

  • Lita Jimenez
    9 years ago

    I have had my DD for 10 years now, its the best dishwasher I have ever had and so convenient and my dishes are clean and sparkly every time, now that being said, its not without its problems. The upper drawer gets stuck and wont open without some serious pulling. I have had repair professionals to the house at least 6 times, each time they are able to fiddle with the drawer and it works for a while and then it happens again after a few months. Each repair person had a different idea. Some say new motherboard, which it has, and another said replace the lifter arms which I did. I finally realized that if I just unplug the dishwasher, it resets itself and simply loosens the drawer and it works again. I don't know why it locks up like that but I have just remedied the problem by unplugging it and I can live with that.

    My current problem is that I'm having quite a severe condensation problem after doing a cycle on the upper drawer. There are quite substantial droplets, maybe the size of a penny scattered on the top ridge of the drawer, not on the plastic, but actually on the silver part that is part of the cover and very moist up under my counter. I'm thinking maybe I need the seal replaced. Any suggestions?

  • dadoes
    9 years ago

    Pressing the Power button doesn't unlock the lid (without pulling the plug)?

    What specific model DD (603 series?), and is it a prefinished unit (with LCD) or integrated (with control badge on the front panel and no LCD)?
    Regards to the moisture issue, you are referring to replacing the drawer lid seal? Water would normally be leaking out during a cycle if the seal was bad, probably leading to an F1 fault (flood sensor), so seems unlikely that's the cause. Some minimal residual moisture remains at end of a cycle when the lid opens and the drying fan shuts off (the fan runs for 30 mins after the lid open or until the drawer is opened, except not on the Fast Cycle). Excess moisture could be caused by the drying fan not working, or if rinse aid is not used or the dispenser is not working. A work-around is to use the manual Key/Lid lock function, which keeps the lid closed (and the drawer locked) until it's manually unlocked when ready to unload.

    Manual lock: Press/hold the Lock button until *three* beeps are heard -- initial beep when the button is pressed, a 2nd higher-tone beep a few seconds later, then a 3rd higher-tone beep.
    Manual unlock: Press/hold the Lock button for two beeps -- initial button press, and a 2nd lower-tone beep.

  • Lita Jimenez
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is an example of whats happening with the water drops, normally there would be a few more drops and its intermittent. I believe this is the 603 model. As far as the other problem, yes I need to actually pull the plug to get the drawer to release and open, this problem only happens every few months or so but at least I don't need to call service people in any more and can remedy it myself. I do normally run my dish cycle on fast because we only have light soil and I do not use the ECO feature.

  • dadoes
    9 years ago

    Use of the Fast cycle is contributing to your moisture issue. The drying phase is only 5 mins on Fast (blower running with the lid closed) which doesn't allow time to exhaust much moisture. (Fast Eco cycle doesn't have a specific drying period at all, the lid opens immediately after the last rinse water drains.)

    DishDrawers do not have a drying heater, as you should already be aware. Residual heat from the rinse water helps moisture evaporation, and Fast doesn't heat it very much. Each successively stronger cycle (Delicate Eco, Delicate, Normal Eco, Normal, Heavy Eco, Heavy) heats the final rinse (and main wash) water to higher temps, which in turn gives better drying performance. Rinse aid is also required to promote moisture evaporation ... you are using rinse aid?

  • Lita Jimenez
    9 years ago

    Yes I always use rinse aid and my dishes are always sparkly clean with no spots, but I will try using a longer cycle. I have been spoiled to the quick wash but I don't want to keep getting that moisture and risk having any problems under my counter top. Thanks for all your input.

  • ksamrn
    8 years ago

    Dadoes, thank you for this thread. I have had my first FP DD for 1.5 years and I love the drawer style. We are a household of 3 and run the dishwasher 3-4 times a week. We recently noticed an odor when the dishes were dirty, clean and also when the dishwasher draw was empty. I reviewed the manual, disassembled the components as directed and cleaned everything with hot soapy water. I was shocked at the large amount of gross, greasy buildup on everything. Is this normal? I have been using the Ecosense Diamond Brite packs, and our water is very hard. I have owned many dishwashers but have never been required to perform such an extensive cleaning of components as I did now after only moderate use. Do I need a boost for the detergent or should I change detergents all together?

  • dadoes
    8 years ago

    I am not familiar with EcoSense Diamond Brite but I searched-up some info. I think that's your problem. You didn't say if you've used it successfully in previous dishwashers but it's probably too mild (touted as "pH neutral") to effectively deal with grease and food soils in hard water. Plus the use of packs limits the exposure to detergent until later into the cycle when the pack dissolves. You also didn't detail which specific model is your machine and which cycle(s) you typically use. The initial prewash or prerinse in the cycle sequence without sufficient detergent doesn't effectively dissolve and flush away the accumulated grease.

    My DD is 11+ years old and probably has slightly different cycle sequences than yours. At the time my unit was produced F&P advised that only powder detergent should be used, and there are even studs molded into the main detergent cup such that tablets and packs won't fit. I always run 1 teaspoon of detergent in the prewash cup and 3 teaspoons in the main wash cup. I know they say current models work with packs (and may include a dispensing tray that fits onto the silverware basket) but honestly I would never use packs or tablets on the point that they effectively prevent a proper prewash. My detergent of choice for a long time was Wal-Mart GreatValue powder. Several years ago I discovered Cascade Institutional powder which still contains phosphates and chlorine bleach (works great on tea and tomato sauce-type stains). The product was remarketed recently as Cascade Fryer Boil-Out.

  • lisak0811
    8 years ago

    This thread is fabulous and I'm so glad still current. I just went yesterday to price out my appliances for kitchen remodel and was all set on the DD, when the dealer said it wasn't a good idea! I currently have a Bosch and although it cleans well and is very quiet...I HATE it! Loading is a nightmare and struggle every time. We are empty nesters and often run only a half full load just to get our favorite mugs and glasses washed up. The other reason it's only a half load is because nothing fits well in the bottom rack! My intentions were to get the double drawers with the tall tub on the top. I don't have room for one on each side of sink (sigh) but I probably will only use one most days anyway. The dealer is a Authorized Repair/installer but states that they have had very unhappy customers with the FP drawers. So much so that they actually bought back several from clients and stopped offering them. I hate to replace one I dislike with one that I'll still dislike at that price point. Unfortunately, they are the only local place with any kind of selection and top brands. They did say that they will install the DD if we buy them somewhere else; and that its been 5-6 yrs since they stopped selling them, so can anyone comment on wether they had issues then that may now be resolved?

  • MaggiM
    8 years ago

    I saw the same reliability complaints. I checked with the dealer and they actually had the model number where that started to get better. In fact they said it was like it disappeared overnight. So date wise I think the reliability probably started to turn around 2008. Then 5 years later I bought mine.

    I am single and got the large on top/small on the bottom as well. I use the bottom on occasion if I've really messed up the kitchen baking or something. Plus when I'm doing a large dinner I've washed all my prep in one drawer and can load the dinner dishes without having to stop and empty the top. It fits in the same opening as a standard dishwasher so I was hedging my bets. If it was a pain then I just replace it. So 3 years and not one issue.

    I used to run half empty dishwashers because after 5-6 days - it smelled. I cannot emphasize enough how easy it is to load/unload. My friends laugh because they say it looks like I'm just wiping all the dishes off the counter into it like I'm wiping crumbs into the sink. In addition the models for the last two years have energy star ratings.

    Good luck on your decision.

  • lisak0811
    8 years ago

    Thanks, MaggiM! I really appreciate your response. Do you find yours hard to load? I know there is always a learning curve with a new appliance, but my DH would be very unhappy with me if I got this and had the same problem as my Bosch. I'm thinking about driving my dishes to a dealer about 150 miles away to try loading it! I feel a lot better hearing that the problems from that time period have been resolved. I'm getting excited about these DD again.

  • MaggiM
    8 years ago

    I started real basic and then just tried things to see if it works. I put a lot of large trays and cutting boards down the right hand side. I put a lot of small bowls on the shelves to the left. Large utensils like bbq tongs in the place they say serving dishes. I learned how to load glad bowl lids by trial and error. I will say that unlike standard dishwashers you can really pack this thing and it still gets everything spotless. The upper right front corner on top is the only spot that is a dead zone.

    They have diagrams. One for New Zealand has a lot of wine glasses. One for UK has a lot of tea cups and serving dishes. One for US that uses both drawers. Best part is that the captain of the dishwasher loading police, my bil, is rendered speechless since he doesn't know the right way to load it.

  • lisak0811
    8 years ago

    Haha! Love it "captain of the dishwasher loading police"! I'm off to order mine in a few days and am wondering if the water softener is the way to go. we do have public water, but it comes from local wells. The local appliance place has agreed to order one for me even though they stopped carrying them 6 years ago. (I think it helped that I'm buying a whole new kitchen from them !). And I'm def getting the Tall Drawer on top. Thanks for the loading advice, I will bookmark this to refer back to!

  • MaggiM
    8 years ago

    When I purchased 3 years ago the water softener was not available in the US. I wouldn't have paid extra for it since my water tests soft enough that I don't even have a unit for the shower. If you do live in a hard water area it would be invaluable. I do have the drying agent option and I use that every load.

    The units do come with a tray for the capsule type detergent but the user guid says that they do not give the best wash since the cycles of this style are different. I didn't really care since that type of soap is so much more expensive.

  • Bettina Hooper
    8 years ago

    Just wanted to thank you all for this wonderful discussion; I'm building a largish family villa in the Caribbean that will have cistern (rain catchment) only. Your discussions of the use, installation and evolution of this product has been terrifically informative. I've spoken with my repair and installation people, citing a lot of your comments and they're on board.

    At less than 2 gl per load, I'm getting 2 XL drawers.

    One decision down, 1,398 more to go.

    Thank you all!

  • MaggiM
    8 years ago

    You know that you do not need hot water as well, right? The dishwasher uses cold water that it heats up. My contractor immediately swapped out his lake cabin when he saw the plumbing diagram.

  • Bettina Hooper
    8 years ago

    Ah, no ....I did not understand that. Thanks!

  • lisak0811
    8 years ago

    Could someone take a photo of how you generally load your drawer? I went off with a box of my dishes to try to load a standard DD....didn't go very well! My hubby packed up the box (which was the first mistake) and didn't pack any glasses or wine glasses, and even without these I struggled with just 4 plates and 4 bowls and a few coffee mugs! Where would I fit glasses and wine glasses? Any help would really be appreciated!


  • dadoes
    8 years ago

    The trick when loading is to have a mental view of the water spray passing upwards through the rack toward the dishware. Arrange, stack, and nestle items utilizing the spaces between them for water to pass through to reach everything. There does need to be space between (most of the) pieces for the spray to bounce off the underside of the lid to reach the bottoms of items so food debris can be flushed off as the cycle progresses.

    Heavy, baked-on dishware needs full exposure to the spray for best cleaning.

    The first two pictures, all that fit in one drawer. My older unit doesn't have height-adjustable side shelves or adjustable rack tines as do the latest models.



  • dadoes
    8 years ago

    A few more I found. I think I've posted all these pics here in past topics discussing DDs.