@David: Thank you for the kind clarification.

All this simmer talk has got me interested in testing the actual temp of my Bluestar simmers. Have never done it. I do know that tomato sauce based stews, soups etc, in large pots, bubble and splat too much on simmer on my 22K burners. I have also noticed that this is exaggerated when the burner has been on for while: the heat retained in the huge cast iron burner bowl definitely contributes to this, which is obviously a law of physics. Usually I just move back to a smaller burner when that happens. I adjusted my simmer once a while back and I think the simmer screw was at the end of its travel but I think I will have another go and see what the temperatures are in light of all this new information.

Hi aliris,

It sounds like the results were very good and Joey's response was reassuring. They "get it."

I do understand that you'll need to cook on it for a while to determine how you like the adjusted simmer. That does take time.

I visited the factory and met Surjit before I bought my CC and I called them once about the simmer but they referred me to the service department of my appliance dealer (which they said was one of their factory-authorized service departments).

I will be back in touch with them after I make some further adjustments and spend more time cooking with the adjusted simmers.

Billy

David,

There's a lot of space between 138 degrees and 190-200 degrees. It is not an either/or as you appear to suggest, as the temperatures in between can be a sweet spot for simmering something covered that you don't want to burn or boil over. That is where the action is in this simmer discussion.

Billy

I agree with Billy. The important thing is that every CC owner first needs their range calibrated PROPERLY. And properly means nothing should ever boil over at a simmer. From that point it all becomes relative. But at least from that point you can take it lower as needed the old-fashioned ways, such as simmer plates, venting, off-setting, double boiler or bain marie. Some people like to call them workarounds. I call that cooking.

And as far as low temp warming, there are some things that can stay below 140 degrees and merit it. Anything high in sugar, salt or acid are typically fine. There's also the whole sous vide thing, but that's another story and irrelevant to this.

I hear a lot about Bearnaise and Hollandaise being an issue, so I'll say this. If anyone knows how to make either of those, then a properly calibrated CC should be the least of their worries. I'll go on to say if their cooking involves a lot of these kinds of sauces, then the best range for them is probably the French top. I may do either of those sauces only a few times every few months (once in January, for example) and I always make those in a small batch close to service, so the range was not really a factor. On the other hand, I do roux based sauces weekly and those are hearty enough that I haven't had any issues.

@davidahn questioned the "usefulness and wisdom of holding temperatures below 140 F"

Actually, temperatures as low as 131F are safe if:

1. You hold them long enough

2. You can be sure that all of the food is held at that temperature (no cold spots)

Conversely, 140F is not hot enough if you don't hold it long enough.

Beyond that, it's a question of risk vs. reward. We are perfectly happy to eat home-made mayonnaise made using raw eggs. But I wouldn't serve that to a pregnant woman or a frail elderly person.

Sous-vide enthusiasts cook tough cuts of meat for multiple days at around 135F with perfect safety. But Sous-vide guarantees even and accurate temperature.

For long-term holding in a pan on a stovestop - which will inevitably not have even temperature throughout - I think 140F is a prudent target. But there are other culinary applications for which it still isn't low enough.

..."uch as simmer plates, venting, off-setting, double boiler or bain marie. Some people like to call them workarounds. I call that cooking. "

lol!

I'm avoiding exercise class which ... maybe if I went to I could afford to make hollandaise more! We have a lemon tree and what I wouldn't give to eat that stuff more than once every 10 years.

jscout, what I didn't realize, and what I don't think is getting noted strongly enough, is that there is more to adjust than just the set screw behind the front knobs. The inputs into the gas flow are far more myriad and numerous than I had realized prior to speaking with Joey. With luck everyone's issues can be resolved as easily as mine. But if the phone techs aren't gracious enough about finding a solution, please contact Joey directly. A more gracious and mild-mannered gentleman it's hard to imagine. I'm starting to think of him as the Clark Kent of Capital.

So: no more victim-bashing please! If your simmer works, great. If another's doesn't, have pity, believe their dilemma, and understand it may not be as simple as twisting a screw for them to set it right. I'm willing to give Capital the benefit of the doubt for a little while longer to set this snafu straight for one and all.

Aliris, please accept my sincerest apology. I never meant to come across as bashing you. I thought I was trying to be helpful to you and other fellow CC owners. The toughest part about the internet is tone and body language get lost in the text. What makes it especially tough is trying to come across as objectively and stoically as possible while wading through the sea of noise and bias from disparaging posters who don't even own the range. Sadly it comes across as unsympathetic, which I assure you is not the case. I consider you, Billy, Breezy, etal as siblings in arms and we're all learning about this machine together even if we're each on a different pace. It's just me trying to be calm in a whirl of panic. I know it's not you, because Billy had the same kind misunderstanding toward another one of my posts. For that I was truly sorry too and we cleared the air...quickly. Again, sorry. I never meant the offend you or anyone else.

Oh no no jscout -- in fact the problem is likely with me in conveying a sense that I was hurt, and I didn't mean it. Certainly not directed toward you at least. There have actually been a bunch of posts - again, I don't really keep straight who at this point - that say something in the order of 'good for you, but what about everyone else'. A teensy bit of me bristles at this a teensy bit but I'm over it; I don't think it's really intended as "bully for you", so much as 'great, we're on square one now (at last); what's going to happen to get us to squares 3, 4, 5, 6, ....'

As for your contributions in showing the achievable goal and thinking about how to get to it, maybe, and showing various stages along the way, you're a stellar example, I think, of the sort who has been much-lauded here recently with reference to this series of postings: one of the many who are truly, genuinely, deeply helpful - altruistic, if you will, albeit this is an odd context for such a lofty term (high-end appliance assistance).

Anyway - please don't apologize; no need for it. My hat's off to you with a lot of thanks as well.

And now ... on to squares 3, 4, etc...!

Personally, I have little doubt that Capital's going to stay on the ball getting everyone "down" to speed. Now. While sometimes I may slip into cynicism, actually I want to be optimistic; it's a really nice feeling that Capital's allowing in that sense. I think this problem will be a thing of the past soon.

Hmmmm... well, actually ... that is, I think people can probably get a low temperature in the 140-degree ballpark at first. That's the technical aspect. Then there's the practical aspect, and that may take a little more finagling. As in, working up a simmer burner, distributing it somehow, coming to some general agreement about terms and nomenclature -- that stuff may be trickier, but I think it should happen too. But that's a second order of business, after everyone whose "simmer" splatters all over the kitchen gets some quenching first!

aliris,

Yep, jscout has been on top of CC issues for longer than most. I did misinterpret a post and we quickly cleared it up. Unfortunately it's the nature of internet and email communication that much is lost compared to in-person communication where the majority of information communicated is non-verbal.

In retrospect I should have listened to jscout, Trevor and others who suggested I get the dang thang calibrated by factory reps before posting more about CC simmer problems.

Apparently some of the CC units need a bit of a tuneup when they are installed so they operate properly. Assuming the units are calibrated at the factory I'm not sure why the tuneup is needed (if at sea level) at installation. Part of me thinks it may be a gas pressure mismatch between the factory and the home, but that's just a wild guess.

The good news is the tuneup can be done and the CC is a fine and nice-looking cooking machine.

Billy

Hey can we get the Recipes for those two delicious looking meals? The pots there in?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

Christmas Paella
12/25/2011

18-inch (45 cm) paella pan
3 cups Arborio rice
2 boxes 32oz College Inn chicken stock plus 1 can 10oz College Inn chicken stock
� to 1 cup white wine
1-pound large shrimp
1-pound (or � bag) mussels, washed and scrubbed
1-pound fresh squid cut up
4 boneless chicken thighs, cut into 1 to 1-1/2 inch pieces
5 andouille or chorizo sausages (about 6 inches each)
3 large firm tomatoes, peeled and sliced into wedges
Saffron � one small pinch
1 medium to large onion, sliced lengthwise into slivers
8-10 cloves garlic, crushed or minced
1 cup frozen green peas
Olive oil

1. Heat chicken stock and add a pinch of saffron, crushing it before adding
2. Add a few tablespoons olive oil to paella pan and saut� sausages, turning until browned
3. Add chicken and onion, and saut� until browned
4. Remove sausages and let cool enough to slice into discs or pieces
5. Add garlic and saut� for about 30 seconds to one minute. Don�t let it burn.
6. Add tomatoes and cook for about one minute, stirring occasionally to mix ingredients
7. Push ingredients to sides of pan and add about � cup to 1 cup stock and half the wine to the center of pan, scraping the bottom to deglaze it
8. Add rice to center of pan and add the rest of the wine and enough stock to wet the rice, stirring for several minutes
9. Add sausage, green peas, squid, and shrimp (you could wait about 5 minutes before adding shrimp)
10. Add 6 cups of hot stock and mix everything together, spreading ingredients across bottom of pan.
11. Set time for 15-20 minutes of cooking (taste rice after 15 minutes to determine if it is cooked. Keep cooking and add hot stock as needed for rice.
12. Crank up the heat and DO NOT STIR EVEN ONCE WHILE COOKING OR BEFORE SERVING. You may need to use two burners and move the paella pan to heat all ingredients
13. After cooking for 5 minutes add mussels by pressing them into rice, hinge side up so juices flow into rice
14. As a reminder, you may need to use two burners and move the paella pan to heat all ingredients. Try to create a rice crust on bottom of pan, but don�t burn it!
15. When rice is done turn off the heat and cover pan loosely in foil. Let sit 5 minutes. Then remove foil and let sit another 5 minutes before serving. Letting the rice sit is critical to creating the right texture in the rice.

Thank you, aliris. I'm glad you're feeling more chipper about all this now. I do have to thank you, also. By reporting your interaction with Capital, I am inspired to get my simmer even lower than I already have. I've just never bothered, because what I have has been more than adequate for everything I do. But you're right, the current order of business is resolving any simmer issues that any CC owner has. Sadly, there is probably a small number of people around here who are rather dismayed at your positive report. But that's life.

Oh, let's not forget Trevor in all this. There's no denying how helpful he is.

"College Inn chicken stock"

Tut, tut, not home-made, eh. Cancel my reservation. :)

PeterH2,

Beggars can't be choosers (but they can vote in a democracy).

If I had invited you I would have expected you to bring good chicken stock and wine.

Sure, homemade stock is better but the difference is not quite as noticeable in a paella or jambalaya as it is in a soup where the liquid is the main event.

And I can assure you that none of my guests complained! :-)

Billy

Guys,

I did a little more research on bacterial growth, and it turns out very few bacteria grow well above 120 F except for thermophiles. Still, I would personally stay well above 140, in the 160+ range.

I stand by my appeal for people to 1) stop disparaging anyone whose range can't do a 108 degree "simmer", and to 2) not make a purchasing decision based on a capability that is of questionable usefulness and safety.

I'm not trying to minimize the simmer issue. Capital has some work to do with regard to proper simmer capability. They could save a lot of money on service calls and earn a lot of customer loyalty by shipping ranges and range tops that can simmer right out of the box.

A lot is made of the simmer issue between CC and BS folk, but a point I haven't heard people make (I'm sure I've just missed it) is that we're comparing the simmer capabilities of a near-commercal 23K BTU burner vs a dedicated simmer burner. So Capital, stop losing sales to the simmer-obsessed, just give the people what they want! Give us a simmer burner or two!

David

>not make a purchasing decision based on a capability that is of questionable usefulness and safety.

Unless this is vitally important to the purchasers needs/wants. But in general agree it should only be a check mark in the pro/con column.

>So Capital, stop losing sales to the simmer-obsessed, just give the people what they want! Give us a simmer burner or two!

Agreed. It should at least be an option. If sales are lost it will happen.

Is a simmer burner the answer? Do BS owners use theirs?

My definition of a simmer is this (and I think it's a common one): I can work in my office upstairs, while down on the stove sits 1) a pot of red sauce 2) coq au vin 3) beef stew 4) chicken soup 5) lamb shanks 6) some similar concoction, which bubbles merrily but slowly, ranging from a languid occasional pop to a cute fake hobbit boil, depending on what I want. I have an 8K simmer burner on my cooktop, and I almost never use it for this. It just doesn't have the power to keep boeuf bourgignon slowly bubbling for hours. It's the size of a walnut, or maybe a golf ball. I don't think people who want that kind of nearly imperceptible heat source are the ones that Capital needs to worry about.

Just for clarification, the simmer was the selling point for me.

And today's oatmeal and spaghetti sauce simmered beautifully. Also, the pasta water boiled way better too -- fixing the air-fuel mixture was a major all-around boon. I know, not surprising theoretically, but in terms of what I didn't know I was missing, I'm floored. And happy :)

Sister Aliris and Brother Jscout,
Point the finger at me for the "bully for you" type of replies. I only meant it in a "you may have had luck getting your simmer lower that way, but it doesn't necessarily work for everyone else so let's keep trying for a fix for all of us" kind of way. I celebrate when ANY OF US finds a way to simmer.

After my call Monday morning to Bob at Capital, I've heard nothing back. I think it was easy for Capital to reach out to Aliris as she is near the factory and has been the most vocal and eloquent on the forum, starting the simmer photo thread, etc. If you remember, her unit was adjusted by a tech once already. Only when Joey came to her house to assist the adjustments, did they make a significant difference.

The vast majority of enjoying an inferno simmer will not have Joey visit our homes. Are we sure that a random tech coming to see me in Washington or Fred in North Carolina or Ethel in Texas or Ricky in Vancouver or Lucy in Maine will be able to duplicate Joey's adjustment?

Again, I'm not being a Debbie. I'd simply like to know how Capital will reproduce their results in Aliris's nearby and lovely RFG-topped kitchen across the rest of the country.

Breezy -- I just addressed this on another thread. I think Bob's a salesman; not the one to call with this problem. Joey is, and you have his contact info. The impression I had was he intends to gather information and experience about what is going wrong in the field so as to be able to communicate directly and meaningfully with those in the field doing the work.

Oh - maybe this is the point. The actual work of adjusting the air mixture wasn't very hard; diagnosing it was (perhaps). It's a brains-thing that needs to be applied, not a brawn-thing. I think, even with Joey distant, there is every reason to believe your inferno will be quenched. The tech didn't do the wrong thing the first time; he didn't know to do the right thing. That's what direct communication with the engineer should hopefully fix.

Ok, I understand now, Breezy. All good. Hopefully you'll be able to reach someone at Capital and be on your way to enjoying your oats soon. I forget if you said whether you've already done your shutter adjustment yet. I think you did. If not, see Trevor's videos on shutter adjustment if you want to tackle it yourself. But as aliris points out, that should be done before the simmer.

I did my shutter adjustment right after installation which was about five months ago. Since then, I've notice subtle changes in my flames, even outside the simmer range. I can only attribute it to either "burn in" or climate change. So this weekend, I'm going to readjust my shutter and the simmer just to see if I can tighten it up further.

Marcolo, good points. Personally, I don't do braises on the stove. I braise a lot, even in the summer time. I always do it in the oven. So for me, from your list, I'd have items 2, 3, 5 and/or 6 depending on what it is in the oven at 250-300, depending on how much time I have. So for me, simmer has little if any impact one those items. Items 1, 4 and/or 6 would be on the stove and with the exception of 6 which is a wildcard, 1 and 4 are fine on a CC. For red sauce, I wouldn't let it sit unattended all day. I like to give it an occasional stir. I think the results are better. But then again, if I had to make a red sauce and needed to work in the yard for 3 hours, I'd stick that in the oven too. Whew, it's a good thing I have three ovens.

thanks Billy!

Amen, Marcolo, that's where we are too. We don't need delicate, non-bubbling heat for hours either, just a quiet burble to reduce sauces/steep flavor without boiling over. But some on this forum make it sound like the end-all be-all criterion for a range/cooktop, and for those, a simmer burner sounds like it could make or break a sale.

The uncertainty about CC's simmer (will it work? if not, how soon will it be fixed?) are clearly a check in the "cons" column. When working properly, however, the full-range burners are a HUGE check in the "pros" column for flexibility - a simmer burner is good for only 1 thing! Our current 5-burner GE cooktop sees regular use only on the 2 front burners, the 10K and the 15K. The other burners are useless because it takes forever to boil anything and because the pots butt up against the backsplash and push the front burner pots practically off the cooktop.

Still, I'll be ordering a CC because I'm a gambler, and I'm optimistic that our burners will simmer well right out of the box. Come on, big money! Simmer, dammit!

Keep up the good work, fellow GWers!

David

David, I appreciate all your frustration in trying to wade through all the chatter in your decision making. If you're going to order a CC, I don't think you're gambling much. Hopefully you've seen some of my videos on the simmer. If I get a chance I'll make some more. Hopefully you've been able to see from the experiences of me and others that if the CC is properly calibrated, it should be fine for everyday cooking, including the kind of simmering you're looking for. The truth is, if that super low simmer really were that important to daily cooking, BS wouldn't have just put in one burner and then further stick it in the back corner. Is it useful? Absolutely. Will not having it prevent you from cooking a meal? I highly doubt it.

Some BS owners have objected to the CC being called and presented as the best open burner range on the market. So they have a strong tendency to harp on any possible thing that could be construed as a deficiency. Before the simmer thing they tried to harp on the ovens. Well, not really a big deal after all. So now the simmer. Notice that for at least a couple of days, while aliris was able to show some success, the BS camp quieted a little. Now it's back to "Ding, Dong, the witch is dead" dancing in the streets because now there are doubts again that the simmer could match a tiny burner.

Also notice no BS owners have answered marcolo's questions despite posting in other threads about simmer. At least I answered it honestly as a CC owner.

Based on you're description of your needs, I think you'll be fine, David.

Jscout:You are absolutely beyond belief. You are (I think) the only person on here that refuses to admit there are at least some short falls of the cc compared to other ranges, namely the bs. Your credibility because of that is pretty much zero. The only thing I have seen proven so far is that the simmmer can be adjusted to the point where it isn't blazing thru 2 or 3 simmer plates. The only one I saw that took a temp reading was over 200. Not saying it can't get lower but you are not going to get a low simmer. How do you respond to joey saying that the cc isn't really set up for a simmer past 30-40 minutes? I guess he is bull shooting? Are you going to prove him wrong? I'll take his word for it over a fanboys any day. The FACT is, anyway way you slice it the simmer capabilities on the cc are inferior to bs and that has never been proven otherwise. Even trevor admits this. There are also other reasons a bs is superior to a cc and there are reasons the cc is superior to the bs but I won't go into that as I have already publically stated my thoughts on that before. Just wish you were grown up enough to do the same.

Again: What kind of simmer can a BS produce on the higher powered burners? Or is the simmer burner the key?

Also notice no BS owners have answered marcolo's questions despite posting in other threads about simmer. At least I answered it honestly as a CC owner.

Seriously? Because we've answered it 100 times already and the matter is settled. Christ...

-Stooxie

Again: What kind of simmer can a BS produce on the higher powered burners? Or is the simmer burner the key?

Ok, let's do this again.

I simmered about 2 pounds of heirloom tomatoes today along with some sauteed onions on the 22K burner to reduce it enough to lay across some cod. Worked just fine, in fact I had to turn up the burner a bit. Used a wide 8qt stock pot filled about 1/3 full.

I use the 15K burner to simmer my stocks for 5-6 hours before adding the miripoix. At which point I keep simmering it on the 15K btu burner. A stock is never supposed to boil and, indeed, it never comes close on this burner. 16 qt stock pot filled with 8 pounds of bones and roughly 6 quarts of water (the classic ratio).

The simmer burner I use quite often with my little copper butter warmer since I can't stand spreading cold butter onto toast for 3 kids, the wife and myself. Put in a few tablespoons and if I'm bored I can sit there and watch it take about 2 minutes for it to fully melt.

Before we ask, the simmer burner is quite powerful and useful at the top end, too. I use it with a tea kettle all the time since they don't have such wide bases. Brings it to a boil in a few minutes.

There's some examples. Simmer/low setting is useful on all burners.

Hope that helps.

-Stooxie

Stop lying stooxie. Jscout knows damn well that were hiding from marcolos tough question. I was stumped and you know you were too.

It has been previously said that bs's different size burners are useful for simmering different size pots and food with varying consistencies. And the bs simmer burner is also fantastic on high settings for things like a bialetti. I have a "larger" one (possibly a 6 cup?) And the diameter of the bottom is about 3.5 inches if I was to guess. Smaller units have diameters probably under 3". The bs simmer burner on "high" heat is great for these small diameter vessels. I wouldn't want to try picking up my bialetti after heating it on a full size burner (bs or cc or whatever). Anyway, this is bordering on lunacy. I have come to accept that jscout will always be a fanboy and will continue to tell himself that his range is perfect unlike almost every other person on this forum who is willing to admit every product (even those that they choose) have pro's and cons.

No one likes to admit they spent $8-12K on the second best range, even if it's a close second. That explains the emotion here. What's fascinating is the BS folk see themselves taking the high road, but from where I'm standing... not so much. In a gang war, no one is innocent. :)

With proper adjustment, the CC has been shown capable of 140-145 F simmer. That to me is TRUE flexibility: simmer to max BTU on EVERY burner, ultra low simmer with a simmer plate. With BS, no add-on will turn a 15K into a 22K burner, and if I get six 22K burners, I can pretty much give up on any real simmering.

With my current GE cooktop, I'm never wishing I had more simmer burners, but I AM ALWAYS wishing I had more than one power burner. I was going to ask for a simmer burner or two on my CC range, but on further reflection, I think I'll just go for all full range burners.

David

David, you have that exactly right. That's been my point the whole time! I've long acknowledged that the only thing the CC doesn't do well on it's own is that low simmer, aka warming. Let's put it this way. It is at least low enough to poach an egg. Other than that, the CC can do everything else, on every burner.

And just to be clear, when I answered marcolo's post about those items on their list, I never meant to imply that I couldn't do any braises on top of the stove. I absolutely could. IMHO, braising in the oven is a better technique over braising on the stove. The emphasis on IMHO, because re-iterating what other experts (including professional chefs, cooking schools, testing organizations and even TV) say can be construed as arrogant around here.

Notice also that they've resorted to childishness and name calling in an attempt to discredit me. As marcolo has alluded to time and again, some people around here view these appliances as phallic enhancements. Or as s/he put it (love this), "aging boomers looking for rigid metal substitutes for their sagging pudenda." There's a fine line between passion and insecurity. The repeated affirmations by some of these owners should tell you enough about that. But I guess you noticed that already.

>No one likes to admit they spent $8-12K on the second best range, even if it's a close second.

I get where you are going with that statement, however there IS NO F'ING first best or second best range. I would without even a doubt buy a bs again if I moved or for whatever reason needed a new range, and seeing the horrible fit and finish on the cc I looked at on wed last week confirmed that. (The burners were not even close to being centered(want pics?), and the burner racks had waaaaaay too much play(want pics?) and the oven handle had cheap set screws holding it from twirling around in its brackets, not to mention the home depot handles the drip tray comes with)

> What's fascinating is the BS folk see themselves taking the high road, but from where I'm standing... not so much. In a gang war, no one is innocent. :)

Fair enough.

>With proper adjustment, the CC has been shown capable of 140-145 F simmer.

Where? I see 200+? I am thinking 150-160 would be best case, and until I see proof otherwise, from at least a small number of sources the data shows 200+.

>With BS, no add-on will turn a 15K into a 22K burner, and if I get six 22K burners, I can pretty much give up on any real simmering.

OMG!!!!! Says freakin who?!? Is there no boat off of fairy tale island? There is obviously internet access. I really have a hard time understanding how some will spin things here. I don't think there is a single bs owner on this forum that has put a whole wack of thought or time into fine tuning their 22k burners so low because THEY DO NOT HAVE TO! What inside knowledge do you have to show us that a 22k bs burner would be such an inferno compared to the capital? The crap that is pulled from thin air is staggering. Not even a CAPITAL tech was able to produce a somewhat decent simmer, that doesn't say anything? I guess capital is better than bs in the respect that capital is apparently willing to send out their head of engineering to each and every person who buys a cc as it seems like the appliance techs that have come out to adjust peoples cc's have had pretty darn close to a zero percent success rate in taming the heat. Holy moly.

>Notice also that they've resorted to childishness and name calling in an attempt to discredit me.

Although I realize your intent for saying "they've" was not a bad intent, there is no "they". I don't want stooxie taking blame for this because it seems like the poor guy gets blamed for everything even when he is trying to help. It was me that called you a fanboy and I do sincerely apologize for that. But what I will say about you will follow your quote below...

>As marcolo has alluded to time and again, some people around here view these appliances as phallic enhancements. Or as s/he put it (love this), "aging boomers looking for rigid metal substitutes for their sagging pudenda." There's a fine line between passion and insecurity. The repeated affirmations by some of these owners should tell you enough about that. But I guess you noticed that already

You are every single little tiny bit as much guilty of that as anyone else on here. You spend a lot of time on here trying to prove your agenda and then have the nerve to turn around and try accusing others of just that while trying to imply you are not doing the same thing. If you disagree with this, please try to explain to me how your thousands of words written on this forum are any different than those written by the fine people on the opposite side.

Tyguy, save your energy. It must be the Bluestar owners who started 4 threads at the same time about simmer issues on the CC (or the others about the ovens racks, or the grate alignment, or the fit and finish, or the...). It was we who forced Trevor at gunpoint to claim multiple times that CC was bullheaded to remove the simmer burner.

The good folks like Aliris, et al, who are just trying to reconcile what they were told with what they are experiencing clearly just don't "get it" when it comes to the genius that is CC. They just need a little more koolaid.

-Stooxie

The only proof I need are the public words of gratitude posted on these forums, both here, over in Kitchens and wherever else on GW I visit. I also get some private ones too, but those are meant for me so I'll leave it at that.

My primary agenda on these CC threads is to help fellow CC owners navigate through adjusting to this range. I admit, there is a learning curve with this range because it is a big leap, but a leap in the right direction. I'm still on that learning curve even though I have some experience on commercial ranges. If potential owners gain from this, great! After all, I was once in their shoes also.

I have nothing to gain financially. For me, I gained a ton of knowledge and saved a lot of money from the GW community as a whole. To that end I am just another member of the community. I participate where I have something to offer based on my experience and knowledge. And I acquiesce otherwise. I post pictures and videos so readers can gain some perspective relative to what I write. Even you have acknowledged in the past that I'm not the typical "fanboy." I have answered you as honestly and sincerely as I could, at least once with pictures to back it up. It was about as transparent as I could get in an anonymous world.

Ultimately, I'm just paying back the community through virtual community service. Nothing more, nothing less.

Um, boys. I think some koolaid needs serving all around. Sweet, red, suck-it-down-and-grin soothing. Just like kindergarten.

Obviously there's a lot of testosterone jetting through these threads and it's really pretty silly. OTOH maybe the shooting off here allows for less suffering through muffler-less vehicles on our roadways. I'd rather you crank these jets in the privacy of your own kitchen, personally. IMHO that is.

To tell you the truth, perhaps because I'm a late-comer to this gang war, I can't even tell the difference between any of you. I guess maybe Stooxie because I watched a video that had a picture of him in it. Or was that jscout? But I can't even remember who's on which side. The hyperbole and yelling I do cotton on to. But what it's really about, well - that takes more brain cells than I have left to distinguish. Also I think I know that jscout is a cc partisan, but he's said some nice things about bs too I think ... don't really quite remember.

Thing is, what do you care what someone else buys; it doesn't affirm your manliness or your consumerist superiority. The point of these forums is to, IMO, reach around behind you and help another the way someone else has been able to do for you. If you - and you all do - have special, technical knowledge of how your machine works or can be made to work, or if you are in service of puzzling out a problem together with other contributors, then it is a wonderful, civic-minded, community-spirited thing to do to share that knowledge. Flame wars are completely random and irrelevant to the goal of sharing information among a community. To my mind, this latter is the point here.

Well said, aliris. Frankly, I didn't know there were any inconsistencies in the performance of the range either, until Billy started posting about his issues recently. I couldn't understand why others were having such issues while I was able to do what I do on a daily basis without much issue. Of course it doesn't help when non-owners start interjecting their opinions, only to cloud things up. I think we can do without all the tangents.

Hypothesis thrown onto table:

The simmer adjustment is not the finicky bit, the air-mixture, aka "shutter valve" is.

Thus, the problem is not that the burners' simmer screws cannot or are not adjusted low-enough, but the fuel's air mixture upstream from the simmer adjustment is incorrect.

So: is this the same for LP and NG? Could air mixture actually vary in needs by what is getting sent through your pipes on any given day? Is this regulated? Are the shutter valves' screws hard to tighten down securely? Does heat loosen them?

My shutters are pretty stable, so I don't think the screws have loosened. But I do notice subtle changes in the gas from time-to-time. Like the one time when I did nothing and I got that center ring of fire. Checked back later in the day and it was still there. It was my back burner and not used as much, but out of curiosity I checked it periodically. By day two or three it was gone and hasn't happened since. I'm on propane, so the tank sits above the ground outside. I think the climate does have something to do with the density of gas, especially LP.

aliris 19,
So: is this the same for LP and NG?--yes
Could air mixture actually vary in needs by what is getting sent through your pipes on any given day?--yes especilly with LP as the whole tank is exposed to the outside temp which will affect pressure. NG the line is almost completly buried, so not much temp variation
Is this regulated?--yes there will be a regulator on your NG meter, for LP there should be a regulator on the tank as well as one where the line enters your house. There is also the regulator on the range itself.
Are the shutter valves' screws hard to tighten down securely?-- no
Does heat loosen them?-- no

Oh...Aliris has a gift with words. In my plain talk

............Boys, put 'em back in your pants.

I'd like to focus on how the CC burners can be adjusted to please us CC owners. That doesn't include endless bashing by non-CC owners.

I always defended the Appliance forum when others suggested it wasn't a friendly place from which to research. I understand now why many stay away.

Remind me again who has their regulators (sent with the unit) installed.

I have NG, but my regulator wasn't installed. It's sitting in the drawer under my rangetop. Curious if that could make a difference for me.

breezygirl,

That's a great question for the factory. The CC installation instructions are TERRIBLE wit respect to the regulator and gas pressure and their role in the installation.

I've also wondered about the role of the regulator in all of this because I assume the factory adjustments are made a certain gas pressure. Without the regulator attached (or with the regulator attached but adjusted to a different pressure) the gas pressure on the CC at home will be different from the gas pressure on the CC as adjusted at the factory.

I don't know how sensitive the CC adjustments are to gas pressure -- they may not be sensitive at all or they may be sensitive depending on the gas pathway design in the CC.

Perhaps more relevant to us is *how sensitive is the CC simmer setting made at the factory to a different gas pressure as used in the home*?

Again, this may or may not be an issue, but I think you should call the factory about your installation without the regulator. There is some possibility this is a building code and safety issue as well...

Thanks for your comment and please report back.

Billy

OK, I'm a rank amateur, but I can't imagine this isn't important!

Breezy: call Capital! I can pretty well assure you (but never say never) that if you reach Joey he won't leave you feeling like an idiot. That's usually most of my hesitation; guessing it's yours. He's very nice.

Billy/Aliris: My 36" Range did not come with a pressure regulator. The instructions clearly state that the minimum NG pressure is 6" WC and the max is 8". When I contacted our NG supplier I was told the after meter/regulator pressure is 6" to 8" therefore a pressure regulator would not be needed.

If you follow the other CC simmer post I posted some information that shows it would take a 7" WC pressure to get the 23K Btu with the #45 orifice installed in the CC at the factory.

Please tell me more about this Pressure Regulator you received with your unit. Do you have a Range or Range Top? Any pressure ratings on the regulator? I am curious.

IceMan,

My understanding is the pressure regulator is not adjustable. I can't see the regulator markings on my rangetop installation.

Maybe it's a non-issue but I would call the factory to be sure.

Billy

All ranges come with a regulator, its behind the kick plate, so far as I know....

Trevor: You are correct. I pulled the door and the front kick plate and there is pressure regulator - factory installed.

I guess the Range has the regulator installed at the factory and the Range Tops have the regulator installed at the time of installation.

Iceman.. It is most probably a space issue inside the range top.