Return to the Appliances Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Posted by doronin (My Page) on
Tue, Mar 13, 12 at 21:29

I have my Miele Optima G 2430 SCI dishwasher since 2007 (Canada).
Recently it started to leak during normal cycle, somewhere in the middle of the cycle

Called Miele service, the guy came, replaced some plastic part, cost was $300. Since then the DW didn't work even once - it starts, and after about 40 min it stops working, sits quietly for some time, and eventually gives F14 error.

We called, technitian came again, replaced relay - no effect, F14

Called again, they suggested thermopump should be replaced, it'sanother $600.

I noticed though that it stops even on China/Crystal or Quick cycle, where it doesn't heat water, so it should be thermopump problem

Any ideas what could be wrong?
I'm afraid Miele is going to replace all parts one by one, it will quickly top 50% of the brand new DW...


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Hi doronin

The tech should know what causes F14 fault. Here are the possible scenarios:
Pump pressure level switch defective.
Circulation pump inoperative.
Pump pressure too low (no pressure at pump pressure level switch).
Pump may be blocked by foreign bodies.
Foreign body in pump pressure level switch.
Flow meter defective: Incorrect water quantity registered.
Circulation pump defective
Circulation pump winding overheated - Winding protection has cut-out.
After a water intake step, the pump pressure level switch B has not opened switching steps. This causes the anti-stiction routine to be started
Pump pressure level switch evaluation contacts short-circuited.
Due to soiling in the heater minor wiring harness plug, a conductive link exists between the plugs from the main wiring harness resulting in a short circuit of the evaluation contacts.

Hope this helps


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

If you face a problem with your Miele appliance our First Aid might help you. Otherwise please contact our Customer Care Hotline: (800) 999-1360. I have spoken to the tech who handles dishwashers and he is always up for a good challenge. Iwould give him allthe info on your original problemwith a list of the parts replaced. Next go through the above list of potential causes of an F14 fault with him and work through the easy checks.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Guess what? Miele still doesn't work.

It worked less then 5 years!

My worst surprise was how bad is Miele "professional" service. They bring computers and stuff, but they won't diagnise problems - they start replacing parts until they hit the root cause - on my expense of course.

I don't blaim the manufacturer - things do break. But the fact they can't fix it so I won't have to pay for 5 replaced parts instead of the broken one drives me nuts.

I guess I will have to throw it to the trash - my challenge would be what brand should be the replacement...


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Seriously, if this is a Miele authorized dealer I would be having a conversation with their customer service. It's one thing for you to be replacing parts willey-nilley, it's another when you are paying a tech. They are suppose to know what they are doing.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Tell Clarabell and Bozo to take a hike along with whatever dealer you chose. They should not be charging you even
"One thin Dime" unless they fixed it.

I was in Field service for 40 years and never charged a customer for something that was not fixed, course I fixed them, otherwise I just didn't sleep at night and this was very complicated scientific equipment, not just a pump or 2 and a motor!

Gary


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

This is not a dealer, I was dealing directly with Miele customer service.

After second visit ($300+ paid so far) the technician left a record "next time changing heat pump, $600. When I attempted to discuss symptoms (I want to make sure it's not another trial and error attempt), rep told me he has no idea, I need to talk to technician. Which of course isn't available until he comes to us... with heat pump! Amazing


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

If you paid with a credit card I would call protesting payment to Clarabell and Bozo. They took payment and did not fix the problem. Hopefully you can reach a resolution where you can reduce the charges. Sounds like if you had known that it was going to be over $900, you would just have paid the service call charge and junked the dishwasher.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

My goodness this is ludicrous! What happened to dan1888 who would appear to work for Miele? I don't quite understand the Clarabell and Bozo reference, but this shouldn't be allowed to go on. I'd squawk, a lot, until someone perks up and pays attention and does the right thing. A little diagnosis, a little prognosis, a little honest discussion of costs in conjunction with same .... geeesh. That's just rudimentary!


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

There are a lot of f14 codes on the "Fixit" website. One with an f14 was fixed by replacing a thermal fuse. They also tell you how to check the water level there, and many other things, and perhaps one of those "fixes" will fix yours.

Since the OP made no mention of an f14 error , prior to fixing the leak, I suspects Clarabell, has created the f14 problem, perhaps a kinked hose, a defective "plastic part' He put in, or perhaps incorrectly installed.

Clarabell and Bozo are clowns, don't you see the Similarity, alto I will be the first to admit this repair guy and his associate/s are not the least bit funny, but many clown are not either!

Good luck on finding a hasty and cost effective fix.

I also have the same Miele, since about 2005 and it continues to work flawlessly , alto it is only used a couple times per month, based upon your experience, OP, If it ever takes a dump, I'll probably replace it as at least at the moment, I have "Zero" confidence, in Miele service.

Gary


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

OP,

Sorry to hear about your troubles!

But thanks for the info!

I guess I have to think twice before getting Miele appliances for my remodel (and I was going to get two or three of them, including a DW to replace my Bosch).


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Just keep in mind - I'm in Canada (mentioned in the first post), so it's Miele Canada in my case, you don't necessarily should expect same problems in the States.

Yes, originally we had a leak, no error messages. Tech said leak is our fault because we use whole detergent tablet (they don't said anywhere we shouldn't, as far as I remember).
After he replaced something looking like round plastic can with holes for hoses, we started getting F14 *almost* every time on *any* cycle (so just can't be that $600 thermopump - short cycle doesn't use it!).

One time out of 5 the cycle works without error - go figure.

I'd rather have it fixed, but Miele is set to replace $600 part without proper diagnostics, dammit! I guess the next part after the thermopump will be $1000?


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

My Miele problems were expensive enough that I pulled the thing out, cut my losses, and replaced it with a dw that I knew I could get serviced locally by someone I knew I could trust.

Good luck. I feel your pain.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

You use a whole Miele dw detergent tablet? Or is it another brand? Just wondering.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

You really need to elevate this problem with Miele.

You had no F14 problems as you just confirmed, until Miele changed the plastic part, it should not take a "Rocket Scientist" to figure out that "Connection"!

Apparently you are not alone, Not that this will make you feel any better, but there are TONS, yes Tons, of f13 & f14 problems on Fixya, and I would bet money, they aren't all
"North of the US Border"!!

Yea, maybe a few are looking for a "Free Fix", but I suspects others have had a similar experience to yours.

Anyway lotta folks seeing this thread & it would be in Miele's best interest, (as well as those that Post about Miele's great service) to address this issue in a timely and "Fair" Manner.

Gary


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

The problem with Miele customer service is they won't let me talk to the technical person before they come with the uber-expensive part they likely don't need to replace. I remember timing when it stops and start clicking, it might give them a hint on what exactly happens, I know how it behaves on different cycles - they won't talk to me. All I get is: "The technicial will come and do whatever necessary". Right, he already did...

Not sure what to do next... I've seen very similar stories from Bosch owners, on Amazon and here - good machine, but service tech don't have a clue. Paying $2K-3K every 5 years for just a dishwasher seems to me insane. Sigh..


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

doronin -- what happens when you politely insist on speaking with a supervisor? Explain your catch-22 and wait until they come up with some sensible solution. Because what they're suggesting of you just isn't sensible at all. If the supervisor you pull seems non-sensical as well, insist on speaking with the supervisor's supervisor. They just cannot, Canadian though they may be, expect you to pay to replace a rotation of serially breaking parts in service of some random solution.

good luck! This seems just absurd....


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Well all they really need is to sort of guarantee that if next replaced part will not fix the problem it will come out of Miele's expense. That would give enough motivation for the tech to actually check the problem and test the fix before he leaves (he never did)

I lost any confidence in their capabilities now, let's say I dump extra $600 into 5 years old Miele, and what if it breaks again in 3 months, and I'm back to the square one and their fantastic service! All the odds are there. May be I'm better to cut the losses...

What I realized is that I don't want my next dishwasher to be without 5 years extended warranty with option to buy even more at the end. Miele's plan doesn't make any sense - it almost doubles the price. It also means I'm pretty much locked to Sears or Costco as they are the only retailers I know who offers long extended warranty options for sensible money, and tend to keep the promises.
How much I loved Miele, but no more. Perhaps Bosch 800 Plus from Sears will be better experience


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

That is sad, from most of what we hear, "Most Mieles are great DW's.

Unfortunately, You are at the mercy, of ah, er, I'm not sure what, but they are much more interested in getting the service money, rather than fixing it or preserving Miele's
reputation!

I do recall, a somewhat similar situation, perhaps with a Miele oven, but could have been a dishwasher, where one poster recommended writing a letter to Miele's headquarters in Germany---sorry I can't recall the results of that letter, but maybe someone else here will recall that post?

It is also sad what they charge for an extended warranty.
A 5 year warranty on my Elux Induction unit was only $75, normally I don't buy extended warranties, but such a deal, I couldn't turn down.

Please do check out who is supplying the extended warranty on the Bosch and try to find reviews,
(Hopefully in your area) as to how "the Appliance Repair" is doing, as far as customer satisfaction.

All the best, in whatever You decide to do!

Gary


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Soooo....We've had several F11 errors for intake on ours. In the past we've been able to resolve the issue ourselves. Not this time. After a call with the Miele folks it was determined we needed the service person to visit. They just left. It was left than satisfactory. Currently I'm in at $449 and it still isn't working. He replaced the hose and put it all back together. He turned it on and now we are getting an F24 error. He suggested I let it dry and test it again about 8PM tonight. He thinks it will dry and be working. Personally I think it is toast and he didn't want to admit he made the situation worse. I would never have repaired the dishwasher if I'd known there were two costly problems. I could have bought a new dishwasher for what I just paid.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Loved it, but I'm not likely to buy it again - Miele demonstrated clear disrespect to its paying customers, so I'll vote with my wallet.

With lifespan 3-4 years and no real post warranty support, it's more of expensive toy then quality machine


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

I'd avoid the Optina. I have an Optima that was purchased April 2010. It is 3 years old and has extensive rust on the racks. One of the pegs has already rusted off. The rust is on the bottoms of the racks so it appears to be a defect with the coating. I've called customer service and was told the dishwasher is out of warranty. I've sent pictures to Miele customer service and haven't received a response. I regret this purchase- but on the good side, I'm looking to buy a vacuum cleaner and can write Miele off the list.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Just want to say thanks to those who've shared their consistent problems with Miele. I'm redoing my house and will purchase many appliances. Had been looking at the Miele induction cooktops, 24" and 18" dishwashers, the steam oven, and a fridge. Just crossed them off my list for all but the induction, which they seem to still get right. I could also go with Bosch or Thermador for induction, so I'm going to research the service issues further. Thanks again for the word to avoid Miele dishwashers!


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

I would do a bit more "sleuthing" here in GW before I settled on a Bosch DW.

Why?

You will see "far more" complaints about Bosch DW's that you will about Mieles, and
in fact "threads" similar to this one are pretty rare about Miele DW's.

Quite a number of complaints about DW smells with the Bosches, broken tins or clips for same, poorly gliding out bottom rack---etc etc, but check for yourself!

It is entirely possible that Bosch sells a lot more DW's than does Miele, and hence more "Negative Posts", but I've never seen any posts, here or elsewhere on how Miele and Bosch DW's compare in number of units sold. (Maybe some of our sales people here can "Chime in here")?

Like "Most" here in GW, my Miele DW has been trouble free, (going on 7 years now), and YES, it is an Optima.

Whilst I still detest Miele's "strong arm marketing Strategy",
(and they seem to be cutting back on Dealers now) maybe to gain even more control of retail prices--ya thinks???, It's still hard to beat their DW's.

It does not take a lot of searching to find Miele oven problems, whilst, at least "Off the top of my head", I can't recall any negative posts about Bosch Ovens (it's possible one slipped by me), but "said complaints" are rare"

Anyway in summation, don't base your buying decision on
"One Thread in Garden Web", just about all the posts about the newer model Miele DW's have been positive.

I don't think anybody here will accuse me of being a
"Ra Ra Guy" for Miele, or any overpriced appliance, (High end) if you will, but at least to me, It's hard to beat a Miele DW for quality and reliability.

Good luck on your pending decisions!!

Gary


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

Gary, that's sober and sage advice, and I will do the further research you wisely advise, thanks again!


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

smiling - to add to what Gary said - you might as well cancel your renovation and not buy any appliances if you are looking for a brand that has no issues with there products and only has 3 unsatisfied customers for service calls.

They don't exist. Bear in mind that the svc. issues in this post are mostly in Canada, and that is a entirely different company in terms of the service network from the USA. The issues are horrible and Miele CA should be ashamed.

Still, miele and sz/wolf are still at the top of the pile when it comes to really good products and service networks. This doesn't mean YOU WILL like their products, won't get a defective unit or have early failure or will have a problem fixed first time with a warm fuzzy feeling afterward.

What it does mean is YOUR ODDS ARE BETTER than with other co. that you will like the product and it won;t have a problem and if it does, you'll get competent and quality service..............................but it's not 100%.

Note to anyone : If a tech (part swapper) comes to your house and changes out something, insist a cycle is run and the problem is fixed before you pay anything. DO not accept the swapper's testimonial. If there is still a fault or a different problem - DON'T PAY !!! Tell them you'll pay when the problem is solved.


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

scotchwatch- Miele no longer makes the Optima so unless someone is buying a used dishwasher your advice is not terribly helpful. Also, when buying a vaccuum I always look at the dishwashers made by the same company, makes perfect sense!

This post was edited by realism on Tue, Mar 19, 13 at 10:39


 o
RE: Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

If misery loves company, my DD just junked her $1000 KA DW after 1 1/2 years. 4 major repairs, 1 minor and of course the warranty was up. KA flatly refused to replace actually stating it was cheaper for them to just keep replacing the parts. The last replacement of the computer board didn't work right after the repair man left! A call back would be another $100 just to come out and another day of work loss. In addition to paying the parts & labor she was loosing a day of work everytime. So far she is very happy with the Bosch she bought to replace the KA.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Appliances Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here