Hahahaha! Oh honey (g), I'm going to talk about two of the appliances. If you've read this forum very much, you've got to know that the KA dishwashers are highly recommended. I have the KUDE60 with the 3rd rack for silverware. I have to say that it is my very MOST favorite appliance choice EVER! LOTS of happy KA dishwasher owners here. I have a KA electric smoothtop convection range with warming drawer. For all those that love the KA dishwasher, there are that many (or more) that have issues with KA ovens. I'm one of them. My second one (the first one growled at me and wouldn't turn off) is "ok" but nothing to be excited about. Good luck!
Monica

Oh, Honey (g!!) you need to do a search on this forum on Viking appliances. You might feel better about not being able to afford that choice. ;-)

I just started an addition and renovation of a 50 year old ranch. My DH is just like your sweetie; isn't it a lot more fun when they're standing behind you rather than over you? We're lucky! My own double ovens will be Electrolux, it's within my budget and I love the roll out racks, and the reviews are consistantly good with regard to performance. After lusting heavily after a 6 burner Wolf for the past 15 years, I re-researched and decided to get a 5 burner induction cooktop instead. I traveled an hour to try it out and it was so awesome I just fell in love with it. Go figure. I'm in a very middle-middle class neighborhood and I'm spending way too much on my kitchen, but cooking is one of my joys in life, and my family enjoys it. So, I'm getting what I want and I'm not thinking about percentages. I'm thinking about how much fun it's going to be to cook in my new kitchen!

It might help to do your research, then step away for a bit, then take a fresh run at it. Sometimes the right choices emerge naturally if you give yourself some breathing room.

After all, it's not the appliance that makes the meals, it's the cook! But tools that work well make it a blast to do...just like having an appreciative person to serve it to!

Have a great time with your kitchen planning. And good luck with getting the structural problems fixed. I love those old Four Squares.

Cj

Thanks so much to both of you :)

I agree it's the cook that makes the kitchen. And, I sure can cook. When I lived in NYC on my own, I had a tiny studio of about 350 square feet with the most awful old kitchen, if you could even call it that. I made gourmet meals there, so why I'm stressing so much is beyond me.

I was leaning towards the Electrolux recently. I love their large capacity ovens, and the added feature of the second small oven drawer at the bottom. Plus, it had a lot of other bells and whistles that made my heart flutter. Looks pretty good too and the price wasn't heart stopping. I need to find a store where they have floor models and sales people that aren't idiots; that probably would help too lol.

BF and I looked at the KA dishwashers, and liked the capacity of them, and the reviews did seem to be the best I could find. Even he was impressed with them and this isn't his forte. My sister, actually was recommending their duel-fuel ovens - she has had one for several years now and is rather pleased with it, and she's serious cook like I am.

My architect (well, an old boss helping me out) actually told me NOT to go with Viking also. Said the same thing mentioned that they have a lot of problems, and I could do better for less money and I trust his advice.

In the end; if I kept the old Caloric that's in the house my BF wouldn't know the difference. So, yes - stepping back for a bit and taking a deep breath makes sense. I have several weeks before I need to make any concrete decisions but please, keeps those comments coming!

>Ideally I'd go for a Viking; wouldn't we all?

No matter how much money I had that wouldn't even be on the radar at all.

You sound like how we were 2 months ago. We were looking to remodel our kitchen in what we would consider in the upper middle range.

First, there are several levels of ranges, from general consumer ranges (less than $1k), to higher end consumer like GE Profile, GE Cafe and Kitchenaid ($1,500 - $2,500) to professional style like Wolf, Bluestar and Viking. We didn't want to spend too much, and were going to get a GE Cafe, but for the same or a little more money, started looking to the pro style NRX and Bluestar RCS ranges ($2,000 to $2,500). We ended up with a Bluestar RNB 36 because we got a great deal on a floor model.

For refrigerators, you have regular depth (less than $1,500), counter depth ($2k - $3k) and built in. We never considered the built in, and felt for the money and extra capacity (largest counter depths are 22 cubic feet while regular depths are 25), got a regular depth Kitchenaid KBFS25EV.

There is not as big a spread in dishwashers. Again, you have the normal consumer lines, and the better quality brands like Bosch, Miele and Kitchenaid ($800 - $1200). For us, one of the key differentiator was a cutlery tray which is available in all Miele ($1,100+), the top end Bosch ($2k) and the upper end Kitchenaids ($1,000 - $1,200). We ended up with the KUDS50 with the cutlery tray since the Kitchenaid has a slightly larger interior and has a reputation for cleaning better (we don't pre-rinse).

This site has been a great resource in learning about applicances.

I agree with cj - take time to step back and take a break. We worked with our contractor and kitchen planner for 7 months just trying to come up with a layout and during that time I went through what you're going through.

Like cj, for years I said that my next range would be a 6 burner gas and when I saw the Vikings and Wolfs I "knew" that was what I wanted. I didn't need to worry about a sagging floor because under the kitchen of our old house because there's an arch cellar. (The mason said we could drive a bulldozer on top of it and it would stand firm.) At first the price of those ranges may stop you dead in your tracks, but....somehow after a few weeks, your attitude changes and you start thinking, well, I'm going to be using it everyday, it's what I want, I'll enjoy using it...etc, and the price turns into an afterthought. I ruled out Viking (bad reviews) and was set to purchase a WOlf until the salesman demonstrated an induction cooktop and my search was over. Even if you LOVE cooking on gas, go somewhere that you can see a working induction to see if that is something that may interest you. If it doesn't, then move forward with gas or electric or whatever else it suitable for your cooking.

If you bake a alot, I'd strongly consider buying an oven with true European convection. One of my wall ovens has that type of convection and the other one doesn't and there's definitely a difference. Even my DH (who has limited knowledge regarding things in the kitchen) can usually tell which oven I baked something in.

As for DWs and refrigerators, personally I feel as long as the DW cleans the items well and the refrigerator keeps the food cool and they have a reliable record, I don't need top of the line. I have a Miele DW (lower end) and a Amana refrigerator and am happy with their performance so far. If my kitchen were larger, I think the column refrigerator and separate freezer would have been convenient, but not a necessity for me.

Good luck - give yourself plenty of time and allow yourself the freedom to change your mind on your appliances as many times as you need to until you're completely comfortable and at peace with your decisions.

Thanks again, for more wonderful help!

The GE Cafe and the Electrolux are the forerunners for me at the moment, due to oven capacity and that second oven at the bottom. I am looking a duel fuel, as my BF is the baker (makes amazing apple pies), not I so much. I had been cooking on electric tops for the last 15 years or so and miss gas quite a bit but I have to say that these induction cooktops are intriguing me. Being able to boil a pot of water rapidly is something which really interests me so, I may have to look into this.

I'm leaning to the Samsung French door fridge, I like the freezer drawers; not having to dig around inside them to find things. I'm not so young anymore, with cruddy knees so this is an appealing feature. Trying to stay away from a side by side this time. But, not sure about the service on it overall yet - have to keep reading some more. I do not want to overspend on this item, I have no desire for a top of the line refrigerator at all. Just cool my food properly is all I ask of it.

As for the dishwasher, also, just clean my dishes well, mid-range price. I don't want to spend $1500 on this item by any means. We always pre-rinse, old habits will die hard I'm sure too; at least with me (although my BF is looking forward to being able to NOT having to do this, he's lazy lol). So, there may be some leeway on this item if we find one which has amazing reviews as far as not having to pre-rinse. I do like a lot of cycles in this item; my last one (before renting, which is where I am currently - I'm inbetween places right now) was a Kenmore, nearly top of the line, and I loved it - never had a single problem with it but I'm not so sure they are what they were any longer. Cutlery tray matters, and adjustable racks as I have a lot of larger size dishes I use regularly (I'm a Fiestaware collector and use a lot of the platters frequently).

I'm in a similar spot.
If the floor supports an old Caloric, if that means it's a 50 year old so some such Caloric, it should be fine with something new.
I'm reminding myself that my dithering on a new car last year worked out fine. The footdragging meant that we found something that suits us better than any of the initial candidates.
Unless other new facts roll in, I'm waiting to see in person what the new Aga Pro+ looks like. Otherwise, Okeefe and Merritt, Chambers, and Capital are still in the running. New fact would include a good deal.
Your profile puts you in New Jersey. If so, check out Green Demolitions for wall ovens. They just opened a NJ location, otherwise there are ones not far away. Looked like a pretty big stock of wall ovens.
We've been happy with our now 3 or 4 year old upper level of the mid end Bosch dishwasher. So far so good on a KA bottom freezer fridge, about a year old, picked up on one of the Lowes sales.

You mentioned the second oven drwaer - do you mean the warming drawer or is it actually an oven? We currenty have a GE with the warming drawer on the bottom and I have to say I never use it. I really thought I would but I think it's the awkward placement of it. Anyhow, you mentioned tha AGA - would that be your dream oven? I would think about what your dream oven would be and then try to get a similar style in your price range. If you like the AGA's and the Vikings is it because they have colors? If so, you may want to check out Bluestar - they have something like 140 colors to choose from.

Chris, it's an actual small oven, not a warming drawer. Goes to 450 degrees F. I'd actually make use of this; it would be very useful at times like Thanksgiving when you have other dishes which need to go in at the end of that turkey cooking at other temperatures.

The AGA, is probably the dream oven because of it's old fashioned appearance; it would match best in the style of my home (built in 1915). The colors are a bonus but nah, not so much into having a burgundy stove, I'm pretty traditional on color.

Why not look at a nxr range. Seems to make perfect sense for you if you want Viking.

It seems like you are pretty set on your budget.
You need to be honest about how that budget breaks down for you. If you want to spend the money on the appliances, you will have to scale back on the cabinets. If you are spending the budget on the cabinets, you will have to scale back on the appliances.
For appliances, you can use the money for the "look" or for the "functionality". Only you know where you want to put the $.
There is a certain "look" that the pro-style appliances give you that is hard to replicate with cheaper appliances.
Built-in or integrated frig are probably out of your budget, so that is easy. Again, you can't replicate that with less pricey appliances.

I like the look of old refurbished ranges in old houses. I think that looks awesome!

One thing I found helpful was taking a bag with a few of my dishes in it when I went shopping for my dishwasher. I even brought a cookie sheet, because I like to toss them into the dishwasher from time to time. If you're wondering if your Fiestaware will fit, take a bowl or two, a plate, and the largest serving platter you want to put into it with you and give your choices a test run on the racking system. I have big earthenware dishes and I found that some DW's that had the cutlery rack made it difficult to place them without hitting the top washer arm, even with rack set to the highest setting. My bowls were a challenge in some of them. Others had no hope of putting in a cookie sheet. It really payed to swallow any inhibitions I may have had and pack up my dishes to take them along.

Also, with induction, it's more than being able to boil water at lightening speed or get a good sear on. As an experienced cook, you know that as long as the power is there, you can do "blast furnace", but the real challenge is whether the range can achieve and hold a low temp. In the showroom I visited, the hostess (it wasn't a store) unceremoniously dumped a bag of chocolate chips into a small pan and turned the heat on low. By the time we left, the chips were melted and creamy. She told us that they'd stay that way for hours. I could see simmering a tomato sauce without fear of scorching, or a pot of stock. That was sort of the final straw for me.

Have fun!
Cj

sivyaleah - I think you have actually figured out your range already. You want the GE or the Electrolux! That's great - the hard part is over. I would probably sway you towards the Electrolux. We currently have a GE Profile and I hate it. We had to do a quick replace when we bought our house and I was in the same price range. I went by Consumer Reports as I hadn't found this forum, and I detest the thing. We have a second home with a 12 year old (and $400) Maytag that works like a dream in comparison to this thing. I've seen the Electrolux and they do look more polished as well. I will say that I do still wonder about cooking in that bottom drawer. I just find it really, really awkward and limited. I once tried to put a large sheet pan of veggies in our warming drawer and almost spilled everything and then I couldn't get it out without burning my fingers on the sides of the drawer! If you read various posts on this forum you will find people posting many stories about how they thought something would work for them but then when they got it in they found it awkward. I think that bottom oven would fall into that category. BUT - if you do get it and don't
like it you can use it as a storage drawer :-). Or you could go withthe NXR which would give you the Viking appeal for the same price.

CJ - excellent idea about bringing some of my dishes to test out the dishwasher size. I'll do that for sure!

Chris - I never considered that cooking in that lower drawer could be awkward for open kind of cooking (cookie sheets). I'd probably be using it more for casserole dishes, those with high sides, like lasagna pans. And yes if it didn't work out as planned; I guess it would just be used as a storage drawer like my current oven or a warming drawer.

Kaismom - thankfully I recognize I can't get integrated or built in refrigerators for my budget, I'm not looking at those at all. Just a plain old fridge ;)

Oh and in general I did take a look at the NXR. Meh. It does look "cheap" in comparison to the higher end versions and while it might perform well, sadly I think I would never be happy looking at it. I'd much rather go with the Electrolux, which I really like the looks of. IMHO, of course.

I have only discovered this forum recently, so not at all aware of the poor reviews on Viking ranges. I bought my 30" dual fuel Viking range over 10 years ago, and it will be going into my new kitchen. I initially had some trouble w/ the heating element. It was under warranty and Viking covered all the replacements and extended the warranty. It's been fine otherwise and I bake alot. I am very pleased w/ the gas cooktop. Since I have had a good relationship w/ Viking as a company and the product itself, I have nothing bad to say about them.

I have a bottom freezer KA fridge , that I estimate at 8 or 9 years old. Never had ANY issues w/ it. LOVE the bottom freezer and will probably always have that arrangement.

I have a Bosch DW less than 1 year old that I am very pleased with. This kitchen is open to our family room and quiet operation was high on the priority list. We barely hear it running, just a faint swishing sound . I DO pre-rinse, so have no problems w/ dishes coming out clean.

SO in addition to my newer DW, the other appliances are going into my new kitchen. In time I suppose my Viking will die, and I will cross that bridge when the time comes. Beside the Viking I am not brand motivated. Bought the KA fridge due to bottom freezer and good pricing. The Bosch DW was a no brainer. My favorite appliance store was selling a few floor models and I got it for about half price.

Good luck in the selection process. I know from my experience in making decisions for my remodel I wavered thru parts and was decisive in other aspects. Sometime you just have to stop the research, decide and then live w/ the decision.

I am considering either a Dacor, Viking or Thermador kitchen appliance package which would include, freestanding counter depth refrig, 30 inch cooktop, built in Micro/ single oven, miele vent. With the Thermador package I would purchase either a Dacor or Liebherr Refrigerator.
Dacor is is the least expensive, next Thermador, viking most expensive. Will Dacor deliver if I economize???

Just to be fair--I don't recall where I got the idea to take dishes with me, but it was most likely here on this forum!

:-)

Have fun,
Cj