I was wondering about what happened. Thanks for the update.

That's the kind of run-around I might expect for on-line purchases delivered to mountain locations in Montana. But, you're in Baltimore, fer gawd's sake.

As I bought mine from Costco, I would have just hauled it back and swapped it for a new one. Easy for me to say, of course, since I've got my own truck and hoist. :>)

Still, I wonder what they can do to fix the corner of the oven interior?

Some warranties exclude "cosmetic issues" but there is no such exclusion in the warranty in the Duro manual. They exclude "accidents" and "shiiping" but that only applies to accidents that occur after the stove is in your possession.

It is worth getting a a new top for that broiler pan, too.

Keep us posted.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sat, Mar 30, 13 at 19:01

Really the ONLY thing they can do at this point is to replace the whole stove.
This one was obviously DROP! shipped hard which accounts for about 50% of your problems.

I don't get it ... if Plessers has such great customer service, and they are the ones who shipped it, why aren't they stepping up to the plate and filing a claim with either Duro Corp or the shipping company to get you a new stove?

"it was Durocorp's shipper as this was drop shipped from their warehouse"
jelly- if Durocorp shipped it then they would be responsible not the dealer right ?
bmore--When they all point fingers it does resemble the Marx brothers, good sign that you still have any humor left !

I'm so glad Plessers got involved(since I've recommended them to others) but it's too bad Durocorp wouldn't replace the unit.
Thank you for the update.

I wish I had taken pictures of the packaging before unboxing ( something new on my checklist if there is a next time). It was in such good condition. My two cents is on a warehouse accident and repacked in new packaging - well with an additional penny on an undisclosed demo unit return.

I agree about Plessers - they could have walked away, but their policy is make the customer happy and they do a great job of that.

The local appliance repair guys (Landers) at least do a good job of keeping us informed and acting in a timely manner. They were on the phone to us setting the appointment the same day they received the parts. And we are all aware they might need the frame hinge sections after trying the new door.

I have a very big sense of humor. It was difficult to restrain my written words so it had a all-ages rating :)

I was fortunate enough for our NXR that I got to see the actual stove itself in the warehouse that we bought it from in Tampa Fl.
We went back and opened up the shipping carton and I looked it over right there in the warehouse and then wrote my name & address on the box after we crated it back up.

That way the only mishap would be the guy that brought it to us from Florida and I looked it over when it got here and helped him unload it.

Most or at least many shippers just do not give a shyte anymore and slam things around.
Something that weighs 350# can easily get severely damaged if dropped just 1 foot if it hits corner.

And, of course, actual repair tech opens oven door box before coming to find that the NEW DOOR is damaged!

There is no repairing this. This needs to go on a nice long trip back to China and then be replaced with a quality product like Wolf.

I suspect you meant to offer a different point than what comes across on first reading. I think we are inclined to agree that the stove probably will need to be replaced.

What I took you other intended point to be is that, by paying $4000 or more for a stove by Wolf/SZ, a company is big enough with a well-enough established service network, you could expect faster warranty service and quicker delivery of a replacement stove than bmorepanic is getting with the warranty service on her NXR.

Fair enough. Paying more for a stove can sometimes buy you better warranty service.

But, as hurriedly written, the post really feeds my inner curmudgeon. (Some people want to get in touch with their inner child. Me, I'm in touch with my inner grumpy old man).

Consequently, when I first read this post, it seemed to be saying that anything that can be damaged in shipping is not a quality product. Presumably, that would mean nobody should buy a Blue Star range too, since they can be damaged in shipping and sometimes their warranty service was slow as they were ramping up their market share. Seen this thread?

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg031340447091.html?44

And, of course, this recent thread about shipping damage on Wolf range must have been a complete fiction by some troll who was just trying to make trouble about the quality of the product, right?

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1118070132493.html

O, maybe you meant to imply the chip in the oven enamel in bmorepanic's NXR only happened because NXR is Chinese crap and such a thing could never happen to a Wolf. Really? Seen any of these threads about the persistent problems with the blue enamel in Wolf ovens and stoves from 2006 through 2010?

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg031529342970.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0122424413758.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg12142105651.html

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg031042011872.html

I could go on in this vein, but to what end?

If there is a serious point to Oceangirl's post -- and I'm assuming that there is one --- it would be that buying from a recent entrant to the market means you might experience delays or problems getting warranty service. That certainly is a valid point. While the NXR is a pretty simple and straightforward design, which makes it unlikely to need service in most instances, there is still that a trade-off in getting a pro-style stove for half the price of, say, a Wolf range.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 16:23

I must congratulate you JW on a "Well written, to the point" Post!!!!!

GW is and should be for all folks, not just those ,
(That can holler "WOLF")!!!!!!

Gary

Totally agree with JW.
I have seen about 5 complaints total on NXR's in 2+ years, 2 were for enamel chipping and 3 were various problems that seemed more related to poor shipping than any fault of the product.

I have seen literally hundreds of complaints about Wolf's.

Spending more gets you nothing but a slightly better more finished polished box surrounding the components.

and as I have stated several times the NXR is mostly German, Italian and USA parts that are simply "assembled in China".
Not to mention there really isn't anything wrong with actual "Chinese made, made by and for a Chinese company appliances.
The cheapness comes from AMERICAN companies going to China telling the Chinese what they want, the price point they want and the design and schematics for exactly what they want.
The Chinese say sure, I will build you 1 million POS.

Its cheaply built because that is what the *AMERICAN COMPANY* asked for.

Meanwhile the same person that complains about a NXR being Chinese will go right out and buy a GE or what ever which is Chinese PARTS assembled in Mexico! DOH!

At least the NXR is all German and Italian all well known very high quality parts that is simply assembled in China.

This post was edited by Nunyabiz1 on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 23:32

This is how I see it, from a consumer's viewpoint.

A company makes a gas stove. Unless stated otherwise, the company is responsible for packing and shipping that stove to the consumer or a retailer. It enters agreements with retailers to sell, repair and maintain these stoves. These retailers become agents of the company.

The following manufacturing problems/flaws appeared in bmorepanics's stove, which are unrelated to shipping problems:

1. A warped burner casting

2 . Four quarter sized areas of the broiler pan exploded off during the first use

3. The oven door doesn't close properly and has evidence of assembly damage

4. One burner assembly leaks gas, not all the time but it leaks gas.

Separately, there are a number of flaws/damages which are attributed to shipping. Unless bmore bought the stove with the agreement to pack and ship it herself, the stove maker is responsible for shipping damages.

Commercial and residential gas stoves have been around for at least one hundred years. If a company jumps into the manufacture and selling of a high powered residential gas stove, with the promise of commercial stove performance, it should not be before it has worked out the kinks.

String up those bad guys!

I have seen literally hundreds of complaints about Wolf's.

Spending more gets you nothing but a slightly better more finished polished box surrounding the components.

Nunyabiz is Wolf the bad guy here too I mean really

3 & 4 are probably shipping damage.

2 is really the main problem because it is not fixable and that makes it so the whole stove needs to be replaced.

Sadly there are too few companies today that give really good service, regardless of name and price.

Wolf, Blue Star, Capital are no better in this regard.

Lemons are sold by all companies duro corp should rush you a new one.

WESTSIDER wrote:
>>>"This is how I see it, from a consumer's viewpoint.
A company makes a gas stove. Unless stated otherwise, the company is responsible for packing and shipping that stove to the consumer or a retailer. It enters agreements with retailers to sell, repair and maintain these stoves. These retailers become agents of the company."JOLB57 wrote:
>>>"Lemons are sold by all companies duro corp should rush you a new one."Oh, man, don't we wish that things were so straightforward!

Westsider's description certainly is how things used to work. I defintely agree that this is how things should (at least) appear to us end-user consumers.

And I wish it were as quick as jolb57 said. It certainly should be that quick.

Actually, that's why I bought my NXR from Costco: if anything was wrong, it would have gone right back for a new stove or my money back, no questions asked, no waiting for three warranty service visits and repair attempts, and no hassles. (Well, none except hauling it out of the house and onto my truck.)

It no longer works that way because appliance marketing and support have become very fragmented, subcontracted, outsourced, and otherwise parceled out between independent companies and entities. All these businesses have contracts amongst themselves, defining various responsibilities in the detailed legalese of commercial contracts. Each of these entities also carries insurance that, to some greater or lesser degree, may cover things like shipping accidents, mistakes, and etc. All that detail can fuel differing assumptions.

The result: you make a claim and 5 or 6 or maybe 20 different entities AND their various insurers do the Marks brothers thing, falling over themselves as they try to figure out who is responsible for what or, more commonly when litigators get involved, try to figure out who can be blamed by whom for what. Meanwhile, we are left waiting for service.

With long-established manufacturers like GE, Whirlpool, etc., the slapstick is (mostly) confined to backrooms where we consumers do not see it. Of course, when you do have a warranty claim with the big guys, you may find youself hassling with with a service contractor of the likes of A&E. That can be a horror show in its own right, as attested by the long running A&E thread here at GW. So, even if things work as transparently as they are supposed to, you can still wind up with terrible service with three or five visits and abortive attempts at repairs before you can get something replaced.

Smaller companies, like Wolf Appliances, will often use a "warranty administrator," too. Wolf uses Adco which, interestingly enough, is the same warranty service administrator for NXR.

"Warranty administration" is one of those business terms that can confuse the unwary much as "managed care" proves confusing for healthcare services. Sometimes, it may mean more efficient and less...

Jw, I just peeled the layers. It still works the way I said it did.

I did not address extended service agreements or warranties or administrators or claims. They exist and they are complex but it is important for the consumer to keep the basic players in mind. Losses can be spread.

I bought all new appliances in 2011 due to a kitchen remodel. I quickly decided to purchase from Abt, a retailer local in Chicagoland because of their stellar service department. Being familiar with the complex layers, I hoped that my decision would give me some protection. It did.

One of the refrigerators I bought had a stinky smelly ice maker. Two service calls and the third call was when they replaced the unit. I really wanted it fixed: I loved my new fridge. Abt offered me a credit towards a different brand, my choice, but I wanted what I picked. So they gave me a new unit.

Dh uses ice and I don't. The second fridge's ice maker is better but still made smelly ice so we line the ice container with foil and plastic wrap. I need to give this more thought. Not an ideal solution. The size of the fridge is unique.

>>>"Jw, I just peeled the layers. It still works the way I said it did."Just to clarify, my point about warranties was not about extended warranties and I did not mean to suggest in any way that I was faulting you for not mentioning them. I apologize if you took it that way because it was not how I meant it.

I was not disagreeing with you that the process can sometimes be transparent to us consumers. It is good to hear that ABT works as a traditional appliance retailer (i.e., as agent for the manufacturer) and took care of you satisfactorily. I'm sorry to hear that ice maker odors are still a problem.

I simply took your point --- "the company is responsible for packing and shipping that stove to the consumer or a retailer" and ran (rant?). My riff was about the decline of service, generally, and about new, small volume market entrants -- however well intentioned --- needing years to ramp up satisfactory warranty service.

I'm not doubting that bmorepanic's NXR's problems will get fixed, eventually.

It is just that "eventual" can sometimes seem more like "interminable." You mentioned that ABT took three visits before offering you replacement fridges. I'm guessing that the bmorepanic's stove will be replaced and am hoping --- but not hopeful -- that it won't take three visits for that to happen.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Wed, Apr 3, 13 at 14:58

Bmorepanic:

Learned something about oven repairs in in Marleycat's thread on oven bulbs. The oven walls and base are modular and apparently parts can be replaced on site and pretty easily. So, that corner flake can be fixed without needing a new stove.

Now, the remaining big question is whether the stovetop is buckled or if you just had a bad burner unit.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Wed, Apr 3, 13 at 17:26

Yep that is way cool, so should be an easy fix for all of it.

I actually moved the burner casting by myself to other burners and the popping moved with it.

The only other slightly creepy thing that happens occasionally is the left rear burner igniter will spark a bit about 10 seconds after either one of the front two burners are lit. The stove has to be stone cold - like first lighting in hours - to have this happen.

I'm thinking I could check for square the old fashioned way by measuring some diagonals?

Yeah, it might be good to check the diagonals, but I think your test has pretty well nailed down the "popping" problem as being in one particular burner assembly. When the "popping" moves with the the burner assembly to another location and stops at the former location with a different burner assembly there, then there's no question the problem is in the burner assembly. The tech should be able to get new burner parts. Things are looking up.

Looking at you, NXR.

So - this week I call up ADCO - looking for status as we didn't hear anything more during this last week. So, After a little folderol of phone calls, they made Landers send pictures of the "Newly Arrived" but shipping damaged door. Which Landers did the same day. ADCO sent the pictures over to NXR.

NXR (Jose) actually sent an answer to ADCO requesting to be told what part to send as Jose apparently couldn't tell from the photos that it was a door.

ADCO never replied to that request and soooo the call just sat for yet another week. I'm thinking we've left the Marx brothers and entered the land of Three Stooges. 5 weeks & counting on the same service call.

Someone on the kitchen forum said that Oceangirl trolls the boards and makes snarky comments like that tongue in cheek to sort of make fun of us. I guess every now and then she drops in to post outrageous comments without adding anything helpful. I've seen some of them and each time an old timer will come on and say to not pay any attention to her posts. I'm just an observer but that's what was said again today in kitchens.

It's true She does, We not even sure "It's a She"

Gary

bmorepanic:

Just for my edification, who or what is Landers? Is it the local repair shop that Adco has contracted? Just trying to figure out how this works.

As for the time, well, it shouldna' be like that. It's no comfort to you to hear that things can be worse, and often are for others. And, its certainly no justification for dropped messaging and lack of follow-up.

Bemorepanic- You strike me as a very calm person kudos truly to you.
I keep feeling like emailing them on your behalf duracorp that is but I have to keep my helper in check here.

dh is lhao at the concept of my being calm. I am trying to be practical and curse where no small child will be frightened. I have a huge helping of big sisteritis and I do understand how hard it is not to help.

The Cast:
JOSE - One of two guys at Durocorp who authorize repairs and ship uncommon parts.

ADCO - The guys Durocorp hired to run the warranty program. What that means is they take information, then send the call over to Jose for approval. After approval, they dispatch the call to a local appliance repair shop. They have a small store of common parts.

Apparently, this gets done all the time - the people answering the service lines are actually a third party who pretends to BE a manufacturer's employee. And there's some kind of repair place bible and the repair guys are faxed a PO and given no further instructions. I'm pretty sure that just like with car repairs, they have a book of standard times to repair various stuff.

I'd guess ADCO's basic problem is that no one is responsible for seeing that the call is completed. Who ever answers the phone is responsible only for whatever happens during the call. So, without a call saying something is dropped, they won't notice it.

LANDERS - Our local appliance repair guys who, of course, have never seen an NXR. They got the fax. I firmly believe they can fix it if they are given the parts - they have decent reviews locally. If something goes wrong, I can go over to their shop - its not far.

Today's phone call to ADCO - Durocorp authorized (Oven Door) to be shipped but no parts have actually shipped yet.

Today's phone call to ADCO discovered that Durocorp had yet to ship the door and the other part that I didn't realize was freight damaged.

Updated my Dealer. Dealer mgt called Durocorp mgt and now there exists a new tracking number. :)

If I were to take bookie bets on Door number 3 arriving damaged, what odds should I offer?

At least there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel, hopefully it isn't a train.
I have heard far worse from those that paid 300% more for a range though.
This all sounds about average really, not great of course but at least its getting done.

We hope.

I don't know - it will have taken 8 weeks if it gets installed next week. I (cough) have a copy of the tracking number. The door left the supply depot in Baldwin Park, CA on Monday and went to the nearest UPS place in time for happy hour. Then it left quietly right before the late night news and hasn't been heard of since.

Still due in for Friday.

And it got stuck in the UPS depot 36 minutes away. For "inclement weather" - spring showers and partly sunny? Never realized UPS didn't like rain.

Hopefully, it's not lost because its last status update was Thursday.

Unfortunately, I'm not a party on the shipment, otherwise I would just drive over and get it.

The universe is in cahoots ! Omg

My tracking said the package had been delivered on Monday (10:40 am)

After hearing nothing from nobody, I called Landers today at about 10 AM and we have an appointment scheduled for tomorrow in the morning.

OK - haven't baked yet but it's mostly fixed. Eight weeks exactly.

The popper burner popping was somewhere in the upper 3 layers of the casting. We know this because the lowest, largest piece of burner that Durocorp sent was obviously a second. The brass tube in the center had been patched and the smaller conical end was bent. It wouldn't even fit. We tried the top three bits with the original lower. That worked fine.

They replaced the bottom panel with a part that also had a bent bit, but it wasn't visible when installed. So I accepted that. In case you're wondering, there is a buncha wires in there along with the bottom of the oven igniter. The panel hooks onto each side and then screwed on the bottom edge. He needed to adjust the depth of the posts on both sides that the panel hooks to.

The oven door took a lot of fiddlin', screw drivers and pliers. The cover plates that pretty-up the area around the hinges on door #3 were bent funny - they rubbed against the frame. Repair guy fixed that somehow and it looks perfect. Don't ever count out a determined man with pliers.

I got out my personal screw driver after he left because one of the screws on the top of the door was loose. And the door has that nasty glue all over it again. Sigh!

They brought a new broiler pan and top. I haven't used it yet.

I'm going to get a cake mix from the store again and start with that to see what's different about baking performance if anything.

Wow ... I'm amazed by your patience and tolerance. I would have been tempted to throw them out the door when they arrived with bent replacement parts.

I like using cookies as well to test the baking function to see how evenly it bakes.

Somewhere around week 3, I realized that I could get upset or I could get it fixed. It's hard trying to stay polite and keep 4 completely different groups of people informed and motivated.

I did nearly lose it with the burner casting that was a second. It was the thought of going through another 8 weeks and 20-30 phone calls and emails to get one part that kept my temper checked. That and the repair dude wasn't responsible for the parts.

Being somewhat nice let me learn about re-igniters. Just in case others also have no idea how they work, there is a little temperature sensor in the spark igniter. If it senses the temperature falling and the gas is turned on, it will spark the igniter.

I somehow thought the burner sensed the unburnt gas. Plus, it was kinda fun blowing out the burners and seeing them re-light.

I am such a child. :)

At last!

Let us know how the baking, works out. For comparison, I've found the following in 9 months of baking etc. with my NXR .

Make sure to preheat for 25 to 30 minutes. Just because the oven indicator light goes out does not mean the oven is fully preheated. (True of pretty much all stoves today. You want to be sure to get the cavity properly radiating).

With a fully preheated oven, tI find that two sheet pans of thin cookies (like sugar cookies or gingersnaps) well do well with convection but I still need to shuffle/rotate the pans part way through in order to get perfect browning. With my former stove's oven (GE DF), the third-element convection allowed me to do three sheets of cookies without having to rotate the pans. The NXR only comes with two oven racks.

Interestingly, the oven has been fine with two pans of thick chocolate chip or oatmeal cookies. No need to fiddle with pans during baking.

The NXR oven has been doing a noticably better job with baking breads than my previous oven with third element convection. The NXR seems to circulate steam better which makes it easier for me to get differing kinds of crisp crusts.

I find that for cakes, breads and pies, I do not need to rotate or shuffle pans. Also, I usually wait until the last half or last third of the baking time before switching on the convection fan for these things.

Although it often is said that you should reduce the oven temperature by 25F to 5oF when using convection, I've found that unnecessary. With some things, especially pies and bread, I find that running the oven a little hotter seems to work better with the convection, saying, turning the bread or pie baking temp up to 400F when I run the NXR's convection fan. But, then, I'm at 6000 feet, and that can make a difference.

For layer cakes, I do ring the outer rims with foil. (Been doing this for years with all kinds of stoves and ovens). This keeps keeps the cakes from doming in the middle. (Doming happens when the outer parts cook and dry out faster than the center.) Turning on the convection half way through the baking time seems to give the best results for me.

Finally, be aware that running the convection fan can push more heat out the oven vent at the back of the stove (true of all gas stoves as fara as I can tell), so I run the range hood when baking..

Hope the tests go well.

My appreciation for everyone who's been reading along with this. Posting helped me to stay even keeled in conversations with everyone. I want this to work and end up being a happy decision for us.

I take it as a benefit that the oven exhaust is underneath the hood! It's handy for some experimental (cough!) techniques that produce some smoke along with a surprised cook. It should make for a cooler kitchen in the summer too.

So, you edge the cake pan like it was a pie that you didn't want to get overly brown at the rim? I've never heard of that, but I'll give it a go.

I have never understood the point of changing the temp downwards when using convection and having the recipe take as long as it does in a conventional oven. If I wanted it to take as long, I wouldn't use convection.

"So, you edge the cake pan like it was a pie that you didn't want to get overly brown at the rim? I've never heard of that, but I'll give it a go."

I'll try that, too ... thanks, JWV!

Bmorpanic, my understanding is that convection is used not so much to reduce cooking times, but more for even cooking, especially when multiple items were in the oven. I would use regular temps for a single cookie sheet, and convection for multiple sheets. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Hoping for smooth sailing for you from here on out.

Enjoy may the new stove provide for many happy meals for family friends and loves ones for now and many years to come.

Loved ones ; 0

>>>"So, you edge the cake pan like it was a pie that you didn't want to get overly brown at the rim?"Not exactly. With a pie, you are shielding the outer top edge of the crust. Think of it like a hat or halo. With a cake pan, the shielding is a band that goes around the sides rather than on top. Like a belt.

You can buy branded, re-usuable strips, too. There's a link below at Cooks Illustrated that talks about this. My recollection is that they recommended the ones sold under the Rose Levy Berenbaum brand. I don't make a lot of cakes, so just make my own bands out of wet paper towels enclosed in tinfoil and shaped into a flat band. Can't remember where I picked this up. Maybe one of Julia Childs's PBS shows back in the 80's?

Here is a link that might be useful: Cake strips at Cook's illustrated.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 1:42

Cake test went well - even without cake strips. No more funny bands of browning and bands of not brown. I happy that it wasn't my imagination.

There's this whole universe of stuff I've never heard of. Now, I want them cake strips and the pre-cut parchment circles. It will give me a laugh to ask dh for those as a present.

Ordered my DRGB3001 just now from Dvorson's. Crossing my fingers I have a better experience than you did. And praying I have the patience and grace you had if I don't...

elofgren, I was just thinking the same exact thing! Mine is being shipped this week from Costco and I already know I don't have the patience or grace of Bmorepanic.

Enjoy that cake!

Fortunately, very few of us had had shipping damage inflicted on our units.

Abqdeb:

As has been said before, Costco gives you an edge for this kind of transaction. If my NXR had showed up with shipping damage or turned out to be lemon, it would have gone right back to Costco for a new stove or a full refund. Same thing if it turns out you just don't like the stove after using it for a month. That's why I chose to get mine from Costco.

elofgren:

I've never had any problems with anything I've ordered from Dvorson's. They've been around for years and have a good reputation. But, remember that you do have the right to inspect the stove before accepting it from the shipper. The shipping invoice will probably says you should do this, too. (It will be in tiny print in dense legalese, but it will be there.) So, when your stove gets delivered, take off the boxing and plastic wrapping so you can check the condition before you sign for it. Photograph it, too, if you can. Doing these ritual acts will at least ward off bad juju, if nothing else. :>)

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sat, Apr 27, 13 at 20:50

I'm hoping it will go fine for everyone else. The pain starts to fade the moment stuff starts to work!