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CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Posted by snowyct (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 21, 12 at 17:10

Hi Folks,

I'm down to the wire and have to order a CC or BS by Fri. I hesitate to start yet another CC simmer thread, but wondered whether CC owners with simmer issues feel the issue has been resolved one way or another -- through air shutter/burner valve adjustments, burner modification, use of a simmer plate . . . or are you just waiting to see what Capital offers as a fix? I finally found a dealer close by with a live CC today (I'm headed back tomorrow to do some cooking on it), and checked the simmer temperature just by holding my hand about 7 inches over the flame, but wasn't able to hold it there for longer than about 3 seconds on any of the 4 burners. The dealer suggested that the griddle would function well to simmer things if I was concerned. I did send a message to Capital weeks ago to see whether the issue was being addressed, but never had a response. Many thanks for your help.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Short answer: The squeaky wheels got oiled with Buckingham Palace-level service, the rest can just go bugger off.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Marcolo -LOL!


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RE:: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

While not the CC, here is a recent post on the Capital Precision:

Posted by mabeldingeldine (My Page) on Tue, Mar 20, 12 at 11:24

I just purchased a 30" Capital Precision GCR305L all gas range. I've had it for 3 weeks or so, it replaced a GE propane range. So far I am pleased with it. I love the continuous grates, the stainless is high quality, the wok burner rocks my world, the oven is fantastic for pizza, cookies baked very nicely. And it is gorgeousssss!
I do miss the simmer burner on my old GE range, I am sorry to say. While the burners are amazingly precise, my Calphalon tri ply soup pot won't stay at a simmer on the lowest setting, I need to find a simmer plate on Amazon. I had a hard time making rice the other day in my old disc-bottomed Cuisinart 2 quart sautee pan which I have been using for rice for 10+ years.

I am contemplating purchasing a couple of smaller Le Creuset pots to see if they will solve the simmer problem. For anything that doesn't need a simmer, it is fantastic. You can see it in on my blog below. A slightly more recent post has photos of pizza.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Buy what you want. My wife makes perfect berre blanc sauces for 2 with zero problems. Need it lower - use a defuser plate.

BTW - NG will burn slightly cooler than propane, we have propane.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

If simmer is an issue, and you are considering a bs I would think that the decision would be easy unless there are other qualities that are still attracting you to the cc? There is always the home made simmer fix like billyg did if you think the standard simmer won't be low enough.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Thanks, Michelle - Interesting; I hadn't realized the Precision had simmer trouble too. My kitchen was demolished this week, and when they carted off my old glass top Maytag, I shed a microscopic tear. It couldn't do much, but it sure had a wicked simmer!

Marcolo - Kinda what I was afraid of but that gave me a good laugh! I was hoping everyone would say their problem had been magically solved -- but I think that happened only if you want to go the muffler putty route.

Ratflinger - Good advice. I've wanted a CC since it came out, but my gut is telling me BS at this point, particularly since I'll have LP. I'd rest easier with a simmer plate as the solution if I hadn't read somewhere here that some CC owners (billy?) still couldn't get a decent simmer even after stacking several plates.

Tyguy -- You're absolutely right. I'm just giving up hard on the CC because I've been shuffling pans around for 10 years on burners with different btus. But I'd rather shuffle and have a good simmer I guess, particularly since I'm too chicken to experiment with muffler putty!


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Snowyct: something to think about is to get all 22k burners except for one simmer. That way you won't have to do much shuffling. The only time I find I shuffle anything is when I want an ultra low simmer, then I simply move my pot over to the simmer burner and forget it. FWIW I do have a mixture of 22, 15 and simmers and enjoy it, but can see some people wanting all 22's except for one simmer.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I believe it was Stooxie that said the 15K burner will simmer well too, so if Snowyct needs more than one simmer, She might want to keep at least one 15K burner, assuming she goes with the BS. "I suspects" that it is fairly rare when one would have all the 22 or 23K burners going full blast. I have Induction, and I can't recall the last time I used the boost, it's a lot faster than I am, and I suspects the same with 22-23K burners!

There are posts about the Cullinarian doing a perfectly satisfactory simmer, after "ALL" the adjustments were made, shutter, moving ignitors, and resetting simmer screw, so
Not sure I would write off the CC yet. It really comes down to which do you think will be the best attribute to your kitchen.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

FWIW, I am doing a custom config on my Bluestar, ordering more 22K burners than the standard configuration. The cost was minimal. I still want true simmer so will leave the 8K as is...I am not up for puttering with muffler putty.

Good luck with your decision.

M


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

After much deliberation and poor local support for either BS or CC I've decided on an AR Performer. I can get it through my local Gas utility and they're awesome to work with. I've no fears and 25K sounds kinda' fun :) Nothings perfect IMO, it's almost like politics around here when talking about BS or CC, I've decided, as usual, to be an independent on this one and not listen to any body :)
(though I have appreciated all the info gathered)


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Mistman, I hope you come back and report. People ask about AR here but owners never review them.

snowyct, while you're comparing, feel the oven doors, and see if the BS doors bother you. They'd sure bother me.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

The hot oven door was a concern of mine when evaluating ranges. I spent several hours cooking on a BS and the door was not an issue - it did get hot as it was preheating and then leveled off. Even during the pre-heat, it wasn't blazing that I thought - oh S&%T, this is not going to work at all (my 8 yo niece cooks with us often so her safety was my concern). I had the rep measure the heat on the door several times during the session.

Having said that, he did warn me not to use the broiler with the door cracked and then grab a knob - that was a burn waiting to happen. Tyguy pointed out that the drip tray could be puled out to shield the knobs from the broiler heat. I guess that would work.

No one complains about door heat on the CC so that is a plus there.

M


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

snowyct: We have been using our CC for 5 months and really love it. I have adjusted the simmer on my burners and it helped a lot - but is still not low enough for a few of the things we cook.

However, I know as a fact that Capital is working on a solution and will have the "Simmer Issue" resolved in the near future. I like the company and trust them.

If you want a CC I would recommend you get one - I don't think you will be disappointed.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Snowyct: something to think about is to get all 22k burners except for one simmer. That way you won't have to do much shuffling. The only time I find I shuffle anything is when I want an ultra low simmer, then I simply move my pot over to the simmer burner and forget it. FWIW I do have a mixture of 22, 15 and simmers and enjoy it, but can see some people wanting all 22's except for one simmer.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I burned myself touching a BS door on 350, which had been cooking something for about an hour. Not burned as in raised blisters, but as in, "Ow! #$W%!" pull away, see a little red on my hand after.

I wouldn't be confident that CC will come out with a simmer burner, though.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I adjusted the air shutters on my 36 inch CC range running on LP, and found that four of the six burners were already optimized at a wide open setting, and the other two only took very small tweaks.

I use All Clad stainless cookware for the most part, and haven't had any issues with the vigorous simmer here.

Like others, I was tossed up over the Bluestar and the new Culinarian a couple of years ago, and decided to go with the CC after visiting the factory and comparing an early CC with a Bluestar in a showroom. I love the range and have no regrets whatsoever about buying it.

But the OP should go with whatever works best for him/her, whether CC, BS or something else.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

My simmer was high when I bought the Precision. Capital came out to adjust it. Have never had a problem since then (back in 2007ish).


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Snowy,

Of all the people who responded to this thread thus far, myself included, only four have actually cooked on a CC, as far as I can tell. And all of us report no problems with the simmer. There was one Precision owner who has no problems with the simmer. All five of us have had our ranges calibrated either by Capital or ourselves per Trevor's videos. The person who couldn't simmer even with stacked grates was before calibration. The person who converted a burner by blocking holes really wanted a very low simmer, so he performed the modification.

Basically, the CC can perform every day simmering just fine. What's that? Stocks, soups, stews, braises, most sauces, oatmeal, rice, etc. What can't it do directly? Melt chocolate, hold a hollandaise, etc. Personally I do the latter two in a bowl over simmering water.

Last week I decided to simmer a Beef and Guinness Stew on top of the range. It was the first time in 15 years that I did a stew or a braise on the range instead of in the oven. I will usually reheat a stew on the stove, but the initial cook is always in the oven. I decided to do this after all the talk about simmering. It simmered fine. It simmered 1.5 hours first and then another hour after adding carrots and potatoes. There was very little reduction and I had to turn up the burner to thicken the stew.

I also simmered corned beef and cabbage on Saturday. First I simmered seven pounds of brisket (two pieces of point) for three hours. Then I fished them out and put in the quartered cabbage and turnips and simmered for another hour. The simmer was low enough that the cabbage and turnips didn't break. They essentially poached.

Ultimately, you have to feel comfortable with your purchase. Hopefully a few more CC owners will chime in with their experiences so that you can decide for yourself whether the simmer is truly an issue for you. Let me know if you need any more info and I'll be happy to answer you as best as I can.

jscout


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I reeeallly don't mean to be rude, but I take issue with your comments, Jscout. You've been very helpful to CC owners with adjustment and cooking advice so I'm not trying to offend you.

YOUR CC may "perform every day simmering just fine". I assure you that mine does NOT. Can it? Maybe. Who knows. I'm STILL waiting for tech service, which probably will take another couple of weeks.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed? 1

I'm not offended, breezy. In fact, I'm hopeful that you will have your CC adjusted properly so that you can assess the simmer. I was hoping you would respond to this thread, because it is important for you to provide input, since you are an owner and that's who the OP was asking for to respond.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Thanks, everyone for your excellent thoughts, words of advice and real life experiences. Although I'm undoubtedly overthinking this whole thing, I had actually forgotten both the BS oven door heat issue, and the fact that the BS could be custom configured, both of which are considerations.

I cooked on the CC today for a little while (not long, because the store's chef had to wedge me in between his preparations for a "wild game" dinner for a bunch of people tonight at the store). I paid particular attention to the simmer on the burners, and it actually was great -- we worked on an orange sauce at one point, and it could be reduced on the two burners I tried from a rapid boil to no bubbles at all -- just steam rising for a long period -- much like jscout's experience. The chef was pretty insistent that the adequacy of the simmer is all in the adjustment and fine tuning of the particular range (Breezy, I'm bummed that your adjustments still appear to be weeks away - that's miserable). FWIW, the chef also was a huge proponent of having a built-in griddle on the range -- said the griddle can operate like another simmer burner or high btu burner(he demonstrated the simmer to me, and it seemed actually to work, although I couldn't help but think it was a waste of energy to use it that way). He said even a 2 burner griddle could accommodate 3 pots simultaneously for holding sauces and keeping things warm when staging a meal, and when covered provides an additional work surface.

Ultimately, I'm certain I would be delighted with either range -- they're both light years better than what I've been cooking on for 25 years. Assuming I can simmer on a CC, the remainder of the pros/cons of each are a wash for me, and I think I'm just going to compare prices and consider which brand I will be able to get better local dealer support and repairs with in the event something goes wrong -- and finally put this decision to bed.

I really appreciate all of your help. Hope I can return the favor one day!


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Jscout--Good.

Snowy--I've been trying all week to find enough time to sort out the details on my road to a simmer fix. You've given me a kick in the pants. Finally sat down tonight and typed it all out. I'm too exhausted to copy/paste the comments from Monday by the head engineer about the status of his work on the simmer. I'll simply link the thread I just posted with those comments included. I hope they help you. At this point, I am hopeful that the head engineer will pursue this until a good resolution can be found.

FWIW, the reports about the BS hot oven door bother me. As a home cook, I wouldn't want to stand in front of a door like that and feel Hades on my legs. I'm no BS basher and have never even seen one IRL. It just bothers me somehow. The burners sound awesome though! Clearly, there's no easy choice.

Here is a link that might be useful: Breezy's simmer fixin' journey


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

FWIW, the reports about the BS hot oven door bother me. As a home cook, I wouldn't want to stand in front of a door like that and feel Hades on my legs

Neither would I. Good thing it doesn't happen.

-Stooxie


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

>>FWIW, the reports about the BS hot oven door bother me. As a home cook, I wouldn't want to stand in front of a door like that and feel Hades on my legs

>Neither would I. Good thing it doesn't happen.

Yup, gotta agree. Only time I noticed the hot door issue was when I actually went around deliberately feeling various parts of the range out of curiosity because of the issue discussed on here. My ever so curious cats are yet to burn their precious noses (going on four years now with BS)


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Certainly felt hotter to me than any residential range I have ever encountered. Not comfortable.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Having had my Bluestar for about 18 months, I gotta' agree with tyguy.
I never really noticed wether the oven door was hot or not, so last week, while pre-heating, then, heating a casserole, I checked various points around the door and found the only place where there was excess heat was at the bottom where the door meets the apron or kick plate or whaterver it's called.
This is the area where, if you open the door and look on the inside, there is no gasket.
As for the surface of the door, it was no warmer than any other oven I've used.
Maybe this used to be a problem, but it doesn't seem to be any longer.
At least not to me.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Just to clarify, the door I burned myself on was a brand-new door. Everyone should decide for himself based on feeling a door in use.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

What does Bluestar's door heat have to do with CC's simmer issues?


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Should we open a separate thread highlighting BS's oven door heat issues? I can do that if you want.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I think we should have stooxie and one of the strident Capital partisans have a cookoff out in the woods with Guy Fieri and that blonde chick who stole his hairdo. We could get video, dub in the "Hunger Games" soundtrack, and monetize this whole board with the youtube hits.

Call it the "Real Hunger Games -- Burn the rice, or burn the COOK?"


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Marcolo, please do.

Mojavean, you're not thinking of Anne Burrell, are you? She's got some hair!

-Stooxie


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Hi everyone

You are all too funny! I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner, we are just back from a March break vacation. Snowyct, I am a CC owner who is having some simmer problems. Joey from Capital has sent my service company (with a copy to me) of a step wise approach of how to fix simmer issues on the Culinarian. It is all the steps we have discussed on this forum. The service company is coming out on Tuesday (my request as they were prepared to come out this afternoon). I can let you know how it goes but I am not sure if it will be of any help if you needed to decide by today. I hope that which ever appliance you decided to purchase brings you many years of cooking pleasure!


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

That's her, Stooxie!


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They're great but their hair qualifies for EPA oversight.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

It does seem like a small faction of azure aster loyalists are so obsessed with a certain C-squared entity that they feel compelled to thread-stalk and interject in conversations not addressed to them as the title of this thread directs. If the shoe fits...


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Marcolo, I'm often just about your biggest fan, but every now and then I think your spark is set just too low. That first comment about The squeaky wheels got oiled with Buckingham Palace-level service, the rest can just go bugger off is quite unfair. In general, Trevor's presence here is an ongoing effort to get "Buckingham Palace-level service" for everyone. Others with ongoing problems report ongoing efforts at assistance. I think it's fair to observe that Capital's got the will to do the right thing, but hasn't the manpower or perhaps in some cases even current knowledge of how to do so always. Capital's said they're working on a simmer burner. In what form that will manifest itself, physically or economically, or when, I don't know. But I do believe it to be true that they're working on the problem.

That said, to the OP I say: what IceMan said.

Personally, my "simmer problem" has been hugely mitigated, but not resolved completely. For most things I find it - now - to be quite adequate. I often have to turn up the heat quite a bit to do cooking that I thought was very low. What I have trouble with is long-term simmering, or what I thought of as that. Specifically, keeping stock on a back burner cooking all day. Fairly quickly, especially of course when covered, the liquid heats to a point that bubbles do break and break continuously on the surface. I would want the liquid to hold at a lower temperature.

Formerly my efforts at making stock were pretty frustrating when even with stacked grates, I couldn't get the temperature low enough to prevent lots and lots of water from boiling all the way away in too-short order (obviously subjective metrics, but real-life ones). Now, while visually the stock seems to be hotter than I'd like still, I can easily leave a big pot simmering for 8 hours and not see a hair-raising amount boil away. Formerly I'd have to remember to keep topping it off. Now I do see liquid-level drop, but not alarmingly by any means. If I left the pot simmering a full 24 hours I bet it would boil dry. But for a really good long steep, I'm not worried about messing up. That's important to me personally as I have the memory of a fried latke.

I wanted to repeat the experiment of trying to hold a hollandaise for a while on simmer before reporting back some more on my experiences of late. I've not yet had the chance to do this. But so far I'm guessing it just might work. Trevor claims to have someone do it in his test kitchen. Seeing the effect of fiddling on the heat of the burners, I'm willing - now - to believe this.

Bottom-line real-life subjective feelings: I am not embarrassed now to have shelled out so much money for this range. I actually really love it, and find cooking in my kitchen to be really a ton of fun. Now. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to learning what Capital puts forth as an official solution in terms of a simmer plate. I am, personally, in no way unhappy with this choice of appliance. I can't compare with other hot-shot equipment. I can tell you that I do like the personnel I've communicated with in association with this equipment. It's true I'm fortunate to live within driving distance of the factory itself. But I think anyone with a modicum of courage (that would not be me) can acquire attention for themself by picking up the phone.

So: personally, I would not recommend against buying this stove. Whether another would make you more comfortable, is of course your purview to decide. But I think the CC simmering issues that some folks have experienced, are currently sufficiently mitigateable that I wouldn't let that stand in the way of buying the machine if I were interested. A comfort level with a screwdriver and fiery machines might be helpful, though not necessary.

BTW - I'm not on this forum all that much so may miss more of these threads but am more than happy to communicate with anyone offlist about my experiences with the CC. Please just send me a private email. Thanks.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I'm getting back in on this. Our CC does fine with simmer. I adjusted the air shutters myself, but not all may feel comfortable doing that. We also use heavy pots - All Clad exclusively, excepting the cast iron. Would thinner pots make a difference - perhaps, but I have no experience with that. I know my wife would like the simmer to be just slightly cooler, but she would choose the exact same range again if she needed to. I don't really think it's a problem with whichever range you purchase, it's only important that you are happy with your purchase as this is a chunk of change. With that said I would no more trade our CC for a BS anymore than Stooxie or tvguy would trade their BS for a CC.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

...so: take careful note, OP, please, of how incredibly emotional a question this essentially is. I don't know if it's a rank function of the tremendous amount of dough that's laid out for these things or something deeper (Me, fire; You, eat), but the strict technical parameters of this are just not the full story. People are curiously partisan about the tools they use to fire their meat.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Aliris - I noticed! I sure don't know the reason everyone has such strong feelings on this topic, but I'm actually thankful they do -- such definite opinions can only help me in my ever-vacillating decision process. And I'm betting that once I start cooking on [whichever], I'll be chiming right in with my own view!

Thanks again to everyone who's taken the time to respond, regardless of the lateness of the hour, with their pearls of wisdom (and to Mojavean for the belly laugh!). I'm taking one last look at both tomorrow morning, armed with my own cookware, and will pull the trigger, hopefully based (thanks to you all) on something other than eeny meeny miny mo!


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

And yet ironically, snowy, eeny-meeny-miny wouldn't be so terrible after all. The take-home message from a terrible either-or choice like this is ... you'll be fine with either. (Or if you won't be, you don't know the reason so right now or you wouldn't be vacillating). So just be thankful ... you're not selecting a faucet! (My personal consumer nightmare).


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Well said, Aliris! Thanks for all of your help on this issue. I'm moving on to faucets and sinks next - Ugh. Best of luck with your selection!


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

We get emotionally invested in our gear and it hurts our feelings when bad people who did not buy the same thing we bought say hurtful things about our precious!

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If you got something different than me then you are suspect! OOOH, don't say anything bad about what I got cause I will let you have it, Buster!


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Snowy,

Since you're going to cook on both, you should compare the simmer on the BS 22K burner to the CC 23K. That would be comparing apples to apples. I think Stooxie said calibration wasn't necessary because you can slide it over to the 15K burner. True, but calibration might become an issue for anyone wanting to go all 22K burners on the BS. I would have been in that situation had I gone with a BS.

It would also be fair for you to compare the simmer on the BS 15K burner and the CC 23K burner, since the standard configuration of the BS seems to be 1 low simmer, 2 22K and the rest are all 15K. It's reasonable to assume that the majority of the cooking will be done between the 15K and 22K burners.

You have a rare opportunity to experience both, so consider yourself lucky.

jscout


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I've said this before but always get shouted down - if simmer is really important to you, get a Wolf or DCS with dual stacked burners. They simmer fantastically. Of course you'll be "limited" to 16K or 17.5K burners but I'm convinced that BTU size is inversely proportional to the size of one's other equipment :-)


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Okay, weissman. But if it's not too much trouble, can we skip the youtube videos on that one?


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Wait, Mojavean ... if it's "bad" people who did not buy the same thing that we bought, why would we care? Wouldn't we care only what "good" people bought? And of course isn't a person who bought what we bought "good" be definition? Unless we've all been duped....?

Don't you just love black and white worlds?


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Now that the air shutters and simmer have been adjusted. I cooked bacon in an aluminum griddle pan this morning. It took an hour and fifteen minutes and that's only because I turned it up after the first half hour. Can it simmer, ya you betcha shure.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I've been going back and forth over Bluestar and Capital Culinarian for more than a year (when my wife first started talking about an addition that will finally be built soon). And my research for the best range for me actually goes back five years.

When I first started looking at pro-style ranges I wanted the highest heat I could find because I do a lot of stir-frying. I was tired of doing stir fries in batches and having the meat steam. I even looked at specialized wok burners with 30K heat or more. That just wasn't practical, however, and I knew my wife would not approve.

I eventually stumbled upon Bluestar, whose visibility is minimal compared to brands like Wolf, Viking and such. Then I learned about open burners for its 22K plates. I was almost sold.

The complaints about poor customer service and other problems did give me pause, of course. So did the fact that I knew so little about BS and couldn't find much information.

That's how I stumbled upon Gardenweb. And that's how I learned about Capital.

I decided to get the Capital Maestro cooktop because of my wife's budget concerns. Sure, it had sealed burners, but they went up to 20K plus and the price was nice ($1300). But she canceled a planned addition (for the second time) and I went back to the drawing board.

Enter the Culinarian. First read about it last summer, when my wife finally agreed to an addition. It had open burners, hotter burners on all plates, more modern looks and people seemed to like the customer service. I finally found my baby. It just seemed perfect.

Lo and behold, I disappeared from GW for six months. When I finally checked back in, I saw all these posts about problems with the CC - simmer, oven-rack placement, oven size.

Back to the drawing board.

I did look at American Range but ruled it out for reasons obvious to readers of this thread. Then I began studying Bluestar again. Supposedly the oven-door problem was partly fixed. Customer service supposedly improved. It seemed to have a better simmer ability. And the oven was better configured, while including one rolling rack.

So now I am torn, but leaning toward BS. I figure I will replace the 15K burner with 22K and perhaps get a color.

My wife, much to my surprise, prefers the Bluestar. She is not a regular cook, but she liked the grate design and flow better on BS and considers the oven far superior. She also thinks it looks better built and is more attractive than the CC. (We saw both in a local store).

My 12-year-old daughter also likes the BS better, mainly because it can fit a professional size cookie sheet. She loves to bake.

Personally, I think the CC looks better and is just as well made. I like the way it is designed for cleaning. I love the idea of four 23k burners. And my research suggests it has a slightly better broiler. That's important because I want a super high-heat broiler to get closer to my ideal of restaurant-like crusts on steaks and salmon.

On the other hand, I can only afford the manual-clean oven (I don't like self cleans anyway). I don't like the rack configuration or how close the top rack is to the broiler. Nor can it handle a pro-size cookie sheet. The simmer problem is also a bit of a concern.

I do plan to buy from a local, independent store that promises to back whatever I buy to the hilt. It's only a 5-minute drive away, so that's reassuring. I will get the support I need if problems do arise.

Decision time is next week. I'll report back once I choose the last range I hope I have to buy.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

jbart - full size cookie sheets fit the manual clean CC oven just fine.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

I think jbart might be looking at the 30" which doesn't accept a full sheet.

jbart, if you can't find room in your plans for a 36" range, then the BS may be your best option. However, if you can fit in a 36" range, then the CC could still be a viable option for you. The 36" range will take a full sheet. I think I saw in another post that trevorlawson said Capital may have changed/improved the rack positions on the manual clean. Hopefully, that is true. Unfortunately, you may not see the new racking on the floor models, but it's something worth asking about when you visit the dealer.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

That's right. I am looking at a 30-inch range.

When first we started looking for appliances, it was tough enough to get my wife to agree to a range costing more than 4,000, so I ruled out a 36 for marital harmony. My wife later showed more openness to letting me get what i want, but it would require too many changes in our design with construction about to begin.

A 30-inch will work fine for me. I'll also have a separate electric wall oven in addition to the gas oven. I use the oven a lot to roast vegetables, so I don't need six burners except on Thanksgiving.

It's hard to give up on the idea of a capital, even though my rational comparison suggests the BS will work best for me ...


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Whichever way you go you will end up with a great range.

What surprises me is that you have a 12-yr-old who uses full-size 18X 26 baking sheets. For home use, half-size sheets, 18X13, are plenty big for most family baking unless you have Duggar-size broods. You need a broom closet to store the full-sizers and how would you ever fit one in a residential dishwasher?

For most big baking, just using two half-sheets, which can be done easily in the Culinarian, would seem to me to be much less hassle. The exception would be if you must bake in production bakery quantities in order to feed the multitudes.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

My daughter wants a range that can fit pro-size baking sheets because of our current oven. It's more than 20 years old and only one tray can be baked at a time. Heat is too uneven without convection.

She actually bakes sizable batches for school and her friends. I've told her that she can cook 2-3 regular sheets at once in a convection, but she likes the idea of using just one pro tray, or two pro trays, to cook a full batch all at once.

With our new addition, we will have a special cabinet for cookie sheets and stuff stored vertically. In any case, I never use the DW to clean 18x13 sheets. I always do them by hand. My large farmhouse sink will allow me to clean pro sheets easily enough.

The ability to fit pro sheets won't be a determining factor, though.

Still undecided, but I might be swinging back to the CC. Examined the Capital and Bluestar again today. I like the bigger size of the CC broiler, the slightly more powerful burners and the fit is better to me.

One of the stores that carries CC - two are within 10 minutes of my house - says it can deal with any kind of problem with adjusting the burner for simmer.

Speaking of which, does anyone flip the grates on the CC to raise the pan level? Seems like it raises a pot an additional 2 inches above the burner.

Also, are the grates meant to flip over to be used for a wok? That's not mentioned in the literature but it sure seems like it would work.


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RE: CC Owners - simmer issues fixed?

Speaking of which, does anyone flip the grates on the CC to raise the pan level? Seems like it raises a pot an additional 2 inches above the burner.

Not sure what you mean ... the grates kind of make a step *up* - wouldn't flipping them over step them down, lower? I'll check...

Also, are the grates meant to flip over to be used for a wok? That's not mentioned in the literature but it sure seems like it would work.

The grates aren't meant to be used this way but i have tried it a couple times. Problem is there's no outlet for the flame that way; the wok sets very cleanly into the 'angled bowl', but it doesn't allow anywhere for flame to come out. I think there should be some venting allowable.

I see what you mean about flipping the grates for regular cooking; the same difficulty would hold - no side venting for the flame.

Capital markets a wok grate which I think is ridiculously expensive, frankly. Not saying that perhaps the materials don't justify this expense, just that on an absolute basis, I don't really want to afford it. At the end of the day, I actually have no troubles whatsoever just setting my wok in the tines of the regular grating. It gets plenty low enough that way. But I'm not expert. The comparison with what I used to experience, though, is huge so this just hasn't concerned me. But from what I know (little) of wok cooking, having the flames lick up the side of the wok is really the point. So I've reverted to just setting the wok straight onto the regular tines. I think whether this works for you may depend on the actual wok you use. Mine has a single long wooden handle and it's quite large so I can hold onto and stabilize it. It could be that if there's no ability to grab the thing it would wobble and make life miserable.

As for raising the pan level, I have done so by stacking two grates one on top of the other. Then you'd wind up with a burner without a grate so perhaps you don't like that idea. But it does work.

I've got an 11 and 13yo and quite frankly, the limiting factor in baking cookies is not the size of the oven but of their bellies. It doesn't take very long to make more cookies than anyone should have around, even handing them all out to their classmates! YMMV. ;)


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