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Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinarian?

Posted by ideagirl2 (My Page) on
Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 16:52

We just bought a house with a huge kitchen and are thinking about a Capital Culinarian 60". What I'm wondering, how are they different from commercial ranges in terms of functionality and safety? Why do they not require commercial hoods and fire suppression systems? Why are they legal to have in a house?

Very basic questions, but I'm confused...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

We have a 48" CC. Our hood is 52" wide, and the sump is 62" x 30 x 4.25 high. Researching the hood was one of the first things I did during our remodel and I wanted to make sure I got it right. Agree, very confusing and I'm sure much depends on where you live. Good luck!


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

The burners are somewhat less powerful than many commercial ranges.

The burners are equipped with safety devices to re-ignite them if the flame blows out.

The burners do not have open flame pilot lights.

The exterior of the range is insulated to reduce the risk of burns from hot surfaces.

Etc.

Finally, and most important of all, the manufacturer went through a testing and certification process to have the range approved for use in residential environments when appropriately installed.

But really, all of this is beside the point. All you should care about is that these ranges are approved for residential use, they have UL certificates, and all you have to do is follow the manufacturers' instructions plus any applicable local codes to have an acceptable installation. That will include ventilation requirements where necessary.

This post was edited by Caliente63 on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 19:16


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

ideagirl:

I know it can seem insulting to tell somebody to read the FAQs, and I do not mean this to sound insulting, but you'll find a detailed discussion of your questions in the FAQs here.

I've given you the link to Colin Povey's excellent, decade-old discussion of the differences between "commercial" appliances (i.e., stoves which are used in restaurants where commercial hoods are required) and "pro-style" stoves (e.g., things like the Culinarians which look like commercial appliances but are built for residential use.)

Here is a link that might be useful: o Commercial ranges in homes (residential kitchens)?

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 21:05


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

Not insulting at all, JW! Thanks, guys. See, the house we bought has an ENORMOUS ancient filth-encrusted commercial range (I've never seen a bigger one) with old-fashioned pilot lights, and an ENORMOUS ancient commercial vent hood (which sounds like the Space Shuttle taking off) with a commercial fire suppression system...

So I am trying to gather information so that I can explain to my husband--who (AHEM) does NOT do the cooking, but is smitten with this range and vent hood (unlike me; they make me feel like I'm in a factory)--anyway, to explain to him why we can still have a nice huge amazing range BUT it can be pretty and have modern safety features, AND we do not need to keep the (enormous industrial terrifying) vent hood and fire-suppression system.

:)


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

Yikes!

I hope that grungy stove is on wheels. If it isn't ... well, the area behind it may be the land that time forgot. If you find Pre-cambrian life forms back there, they ain't gonna be pretty. (I've had to clean old commercial stoves and have worked on a restaurant remodel or two, so I've got some first hand experience. Also, I house-sat a place for a while that had an old Garland which was not on casters so it hadn't been pulled away from its tiled alcove in a while. Kitchen started to smell funny and ... well, it was like a grease trap back there.)

Us guys do have a fixation with horsepower, and that monster range and and hood might seem to some like finding a '68 Ford Mustang with a 428 Cobra engine. But it is really more like an old semi-tractor.

Does the DH cook at all? If he does, let him try to make himself a single serving of oatmeal on the old monster stove. Much like driving a monster-truck to the grocery store for a carton of milk, it may convince him that the thing is more trouble than its worth.

If the DH does not cook at all, does he clean? Having to clean the monster stove and commercial hood may be enough of an object lesson.

If you put a Culinarian back there with a custom hood set-up, you can have the fan motors mounted remotely. You'll be able to run it much more quietly and not have to worry about vacuuming up pet cats and small dogs. For a hood that big, though, you may still need a make-up air system of some kind.

Good luck with the remodel.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 22:41


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

FWIW you could probably keep the hood but remove the fire-suppression, and depending on the design of the house move the blower away to make the thing quieter.


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

I will be sure to post photos of any pre-cambrian life forms we may find, along with photos of, e.g., mouse nests. Heck, the thing is so big there could be possums back there. It's almost 40" DEEP. I'm not even sure how to get it out the door--some disassembly may be required. And you're right, the hood is so huge and powerful that I genuinely think pets are at risk of being sucked up.

Actually, I wonder how the previous owners got away with not having make-up air. Speaking of which, where does one buy make-up air systems? I looked a little bit online but didn't see such things available for sale--I guess it's not like just buying an appliance. Do you have to call an HVAC guy?

Having DH make dinner on the thing seems like a good idea. Maybe I should first have him cook a certain thing at our current house, which is under contract but still ours for now, and then have him cook the same thing on the ancient behemoth at the new place... otherwise he might think the (no doubt difficult) experience of cooking on the behemoth is "just what cooking is like."


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

Did the previous owners get away with not having MUA? Might be because they installed the commercial stuff a long time ago and nobody asked about MUA. If the house is big enough and old enough, it might have been "leaky" enough that an MUA system was not needed.

Or, the previous owners may very well have installed a make-up air system and it may have been the kind that was integrated with the commercial hood. The realtor should know or be able to find out from the previous owners. If that does not work, then you'll have to go looking for it because there are numbers of different kinds of MUA systems for commercial hoods. Some can even be part of the hood system. If you are interested, here's a resource that illustrates and discusses different kinds of commercial MUA systems which may give you some hints of where to look for MUA in your newly acquired kitchen. .

http://www.fishnick.com/ventilation/designguides/CKV_Design_Guide_2_031504.pdf

Also, check out Kaseki's clippings page.

As for who you need for building/designing/installing an MUA system, there is no simple answer because it is not a one-size-fits-all or one-stop-shop kind of thing. The short answer to any MUA question will always be "it depends." If you live in a warm climate, MUA might be as simple as opening a window when you run the hood above 400 cfm. Or you might be able use a "MUA damper." There's a current thread on these. Here's the link:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0313214523464.html

If you live in the great northland of cold winters (say, Minnesota) or in a place where air-conditioning is the norm for months (say, Phoenix), the MUA thing may involve air exchangers which gets a lot more complicated and expensive. About all I can suggest is that you look at the many postings about MUA over the last couple of years. A search using "kaseki + mua" should get you a lot of threads to look at.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 1:54


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

c'mon you gotta post a picture!


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

I think I would need a wide-angle lens to take a picture, Otterkill.
:)

I looked up in the hood and didn't see anything but... hoodness. Fins or flaps or whatever those are. It looks like a giant-sized version of the hood below, minus the lights and the attractiveness. So I'm guessing there's no MUA in the hood, otherwise it would be visible, right? Or no?

Here is a link that might be useful: Underside of a similar looking hood


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

If the MUA were inserted into the hood too high to see its opening it would also not provide MUA where needed -- into the room. Tests of systems that inject MUA into the air flow within the hood tend to show disrupted effluent collection and spillage into the room. Injecting MUA just outside the hood is better, and at the floor under the stove even better, as is laminar flow into the room from elsewhere. (The option of a deliberate air curtain around the cooktop flowing upward is ignored here due to its general impracticality in a residential setting.)

If your hood is truly commercial, the baffle angle will be much steeper than in the photo.

kas


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

Is that fire suppression water? Halon? Carbon Dioxide?


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

If the prior homeowners stuck this oven into the house, I'm not sure they were at all convinced that safety mattered in the first place, hence makeup air was probably a foreign language to them. I would bet a shiny nickel no insurance agent will insure your house with that monster in there. Of course they probably put it in without an insurance company knowing about it, always makes a sticky situation when the place burns down and a non-UL, non-permit, non-inspected appliance was put in......
We bought a lake house with an old Franklin fireplace thrown in the basement, bare metal, right next to combustible materials, yada yada. Travelers homeowners, said, yay that's gotta go...

And to get your beast out, you might need a sawzall... Of course they got it in somehow.... Unfortunately some people put appliances in during a remodel, and carry them in through a wall before it is built... leaving no exit....


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RE: Why do you not need a commercial hood with a Capital Culinari

Commercial ranges are NOT 'zero clearance' to flammable surfaces.

The sides and back can only be against a non-flammable surface.

The doors to ovens get HOT.

The handles to ovens get HOT.

They are designed for continuous heavy use.

Most burners are larger than the 'pro style' ranges allowed for home use.

The fire suppression is required to try an ensure more safety in a busy kitchen with many distractions.


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