Bosch (300 or 500)
-I've got different answers from the appliance sales staff, but the 500 is the only one with a "true convection" correct? Otherwise the only difference I can see is temperature probe & rack.
-What does Bosch mean by "speed convection"? I have found their web site less than informative.
-I have to admit I am less than wowed by my current convection oven, but that might just be that my oven is not that good. The common thread in old posts is convection is worth it.

GE Profile (PT966)
-Bosch says they have a fast pre-heat, does anyone notice a slow preheat with their GE, or is the extra couple of minutes much ado about nothing?
-How is Bosch convection different from GE, since their is "true European"

Relative price points are:
Bosch 300 ($1960) GE Profile ($2270) Bosch 500 ($2450)

I think I like the telescoping racks and controls on the Bosch better, but GE has a hidden bottom element, and now I can't recall if Bosch does and can't find an answer on the web. Is the Bosch worth $200 more than GE, or is it preference? Assuming the 300 has the same convection as the 500 I might get that. And given our experience reliability is a HUGE issue.

I have also considered a Frigidaire Gallery which has a double convection, but is hundreds less, that everyone seems to think is an inferior oven. If anyone wants to throw in 2 cents on this I'd like to hear it.

Once again, thanks for reading through such a lengthy message. I have looked through the old posts, which have better information than the Bosch web site!

All the Bosch ovens have hidden bake element. The 500 and 800 convection ovens have three heating elements--bake, broil, convection--while the 300 has two heating elements, bake and broil.

They all seemed like good ovens. One thing that pushed us into the Bosch camp was the broiler element--it's recessed, which adds usable space and safety, it's wide, and it's pretty powerful at 3600 watts. (In comparison, the Profile broiler is 2400 watts. The Profile convection element is 2500 vs. 2000 for the Bosch, but that didn't seem as important to us as the broiler ratings.)

The KitchenAid seemed very solid but lacked a keep-warm feature and had the broiler hanging low into the cooking area.

The Bosch racks were surprisingly thin and flimsy-seeming. We decided we could live with them.

The Frigidaire "Pro" oven (PLEB30T9FC) seemed to be the best value for the dollar--it looked good, seemed solid, and had lots of features, including double convection with three elements and keep-warm, for far less money. It seemed underpriced, in fact, and logically, we probably should have chosen it. I guess we were also swayed by the styling of the Bosch and the fact that it seems a little exotic overall.

I can't comment on reliability, but we got a very good price on the Bosch from Sears, and bought their 5-year service contract, so any headaches will be theirs to share.

Which is the confusion for me about the Frigidaire, their double wall ovens are BOTH convention and much cheaper ($1700) so from what I can tell it just has a fan without an extra element like the Bosch 500 & GE profile. I'm going by the information on this board that the Bosch 300 doesn't have the same convection since it's not clear on Bosch's site (or I'm not looking in the right place). I've called several appliance dealers (including Yale Electric in Boston) and they know less about the ovens than I do, except for some pattern sales pitch. I'm not sure any of those people actually cook.

Bosch 300 series is a non convection oven,
bosch 500 series is a convection oven upper only.. the third heating element is 2000 watts which is what gives you the european convection..

I hope this helps in answering some of your questions..

Kitchen aid, kenmore, maytag, amana, are all whirlpool products now...

The difference between precise air in a ge and true european in a bosch

Precise air: a fan blows hot air through out the oven.
european: by adding a 3rd element the fan actually blows pre heated air, rather than distributing already heated air. Making this more effective type of oven, less time and less energy..

Example,, When I bake 3 sheets of cookies at one time, when I preheat the oven, the fan is blowing exactly the temperature that I sat 350 degrees,, Every cooking will come out exactly the same tops and bottoms..
precise air.. I set at 350degrees, but the fan is just blowing the air around, doesnt mean the oven temp will stay at 350 degrees.. Doesnt mean that I will burn anything either, but if the oven is exact, then the food will cook faster, and more evenly.. less time, less energy, more effective with european convection.. I hope I have not confused you in any way..

speed convection: Is best when cooking frozen foods.
bake convection: is best when baking pies,cookies,cakes ect.
broil convection: best when cooking steaks
roast concection, best when cooking chicken..
each convection mode uses a different element.. otherwise they are all covections and all will decrease you cooking time by 25 to 30percent..

Frigidaire is the cheapest make on the market for the average consumer who wants convection, but cannot afford the higher end of appliances.. Its like the generic brand of all brands..

Monya40, when we looked at the Frigidaire, it didn't seem "generic." It had more features than, and looked and felt more substantial than, similarly priced GE, Maytag, Kenmore, Whirlpool and Amana ovens. I haven't used the Frigidaire--just conveying my shopping impressions.

I am intrigued by the speed cook function for frozen, does it work well for you monya40? Unfortunately with two pre-schoolers, one very picky, I find myself using my oven mostly to cook french fries right now. I do cook pizza often (from scratch). My hope is this oven will last long enough for me to get back to my more interesting meals & cooking. But it does make me wonder if I should be paying a $500-700 premium for an item that I appear to do fine without.

Interesting list of repairs, which of course is the exact opposite of Consumer Reports. I have found them completely useless for any appliance shopping anymore and tend to disagree with their findings 90% of the time.

The speed preheat in Bosch is of interest to me, as with the 2 hour self-clean. But I wonder if it actually uses any less energy or just has more elements going and uses the same amount of energy in less time.

I do like the indea of a built in temperature probe, which is in the Bosch 500 & GE Profile.

Here is where my thoughts are right now:

I like the Bosch 500 look/feel the best for several reasons, including the fact is has an actually KNOB on it. Not sure why I want one, but I like them.

I feel like the GE Profile might be the safest bet for long term repair since that's what I hear from many people, and that is important to us between the nightmare we had with the Whirlpool and that repair vans can't get up our driveway from December to March. (Which is usually when the oven breaks.)

Yet, the frugal person in me wants to go for the Fridgidaire, which will probably be just fine and I won't notice the difference as long as the oven doesn't quit out for the third Thanksgiving in a row. (Seriously, last two Thanksgivings.)

Cuse69

FWIW, in my area, GE Profile is about $1800 (Black), Electrolux is $1799 (Black, and this price appears to be fixed across retailers), Monogram is $2475 (SS only, store said this is builder price), Bosch 500 about $2k (Black) and Bosch 800 about $2100 (SS only). We were planning on going Black but the Electrolux matching MW apparently comes only in SS.

It's looks like the GE name is really starting to slip, so I would certainly consider the Fridge/Elux lines anywhere GE might be in the decision making process.

Thermador is extremely aggravating when it comes to honouring their warranty. Yet another reason to stay as far away from them as possible.