how much do one of these go for?

... $2100 before tax. I just picked it up today and have it still boxed in the house. If anyone wants more specific pictures I will be glad to take and post them.

Did the price go down with the new version?

Back in January when I was deciding between BlueStar and Capital, I was quoted $3200 for the RCS304 and $4000 for the RNB304, before tax. The dealer said BlueStar controlled the pricing and he had no flexibility.

BlueStar also apparently prohibited competitive quotes from dealers outside my area, and I didn't want to drive several hours away. BlueStar seemed more interested in restricting my purchasing options than selling me a range which made the decision to go with Capital even easier.

Who did you buy the capital from? I am still a few weeks away but I hope I dont run into that problem. Once sales man said that line to be once, i called him on his BS. I'm also a retailer.

I do not know if the price went down with the new version, but I after talking with the BlueStar rep he said there will be a price increase in April.

I just looked at my receipt and it shows we paid $2149 before tax. We got the new version 30" without the convection... maybe that is the difference. We figured we have been cooking without convection (not considering naturally occurring convection so will not go into the physics)and decided we can keep the old school way of baking.

Maybe that is the difference...

TonySak, I ended up buying the Capital from a local dealer, and am glad that I did because it was damaged during the in-home delivery and they're taking responsibility for the damage.

I called two remote BlueStar dealers and both of them told me that they couldn't give me a quote because they were prohibited from doing so due to an agreement with BlueStar over regional restrictions. That left me unable to verify if I was getting a fair price and make a fully informed decision. I was able to get competitive prices on the Culinarian and verify my purchase price was fair.

In my mind, the Culinarian was already edging ahead on features and quality, so BlueStar's apparent sales practice put the nail in their coffin for me. I didn't buy from Trevor, but his commitment stand behind the product and abundance of helpful videos didn't hurt, either.

It's actually not entirely bull if Bluestar is trying to control prices somewhat. Resellers can destroy companies by eroding their margins into nothing via endless bidding wars. I worked for Sun Microsystems, a $12B/year company, and while there were many problems, the resller problem was HUGE.

That said, if Bluestar's pricing is unreasonable that's a different story. However, the fact that you may get "common" pricing among dealers should not be viewed as a problem. People get fixated on who is giving them the biggest percentage of discount. Frankly that is poor strategy for getting what you want/need.

I stay out of the CC threads but they CRACK me up! The rationalization that goes on is hilarious. The videos are equally laughable. "Hmmm, the burner doesn't seem to send much flame up the side." Then you watch the video and there's flames licking up the sides of the pot. Just harder to see in the bright lighting. SO engineered.

-Stooxie

Stooxie -- it's called retail price maintenance. The general understanding is that it can be a good thing, but is not always so. The theory is not that mfg margins would otherwise be destroyed, except in the longer term if their business model is trashed. Rather, when mfgs want a measure of commitment from dealers on, for example, marketing, installation, and service, they need to protect the (co-)investments made by those dealers from competition from mail order houses that do not offer comparable investments and can price things lower because their costs are much lower (and no, I"m not suggesting that any particular mail order dealer fails to provide great service or that brick-and-mortar shops necessarily deliver).

Sometimes, things don't work as they should. And sometimes, these types of agreements are really driven by dealers who want to protect their turf and margins against competition -- and may foist such arrangements on mfgs.

It may be neither here nor there. As you say, there are various products on the market at various prices, and consumers can focus on the price or product features -- or product/price combination -- that they prefer. If my favorite thing is priced at half of my second favorite thing, then it really shouldn't matter if the first thing is sold at 10% above some published MSRP and the second at 30% below some published MSRP. Obviously, features and/or price may be a close call, and a precise rank ordering of my preferences may be hard for me to do, but that's neither here nor there.

Originally the BlueStar was our first choice but the price was a bit too steep... and then we saw the Bertazzoni Master. The Bertazzoni was not exactly what we were looking for the free hood offer made it a little more attractive for us. Then last weekend we came across the deal on the BlueStar at a price we were comfortable with and got a fairly decent deal on a hood. Just picked the hood up today.

I am glad this worked out for us getting the range we wanted at a price we wanted.

If anyone is interested in seeing more photos let me know and I will get some posted.

Hi Casey_wa, Thanks for the post. I've been trying to find some reviews or any non-dealer information about this particular model, and this post is all I've been able to come across. My local Bluestar distributor doesn't know a lot about this range. When I called the main BS number, the agent told me she thinks this model has three 15K burners and one simmer. Is that correct? And, if you've got your stove hooked up, how does is that working for you? Do you find it hot enough for stir-frying, for example? Any more on the RCS304 would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I do not have the range hooked up yet. When we were talking with the BlueStar sales rep before purchasing the range we discussed in detail the burner configuration of simmer, 2x15k and 18k burner on the RCS304BV1 we bought. The 18k is to be on the right front. Looking at the two front burners for comparison I can not tell the difference... I will go back to the dealer to find out how to tell.

Casey

The 18K burners have a double set of flame holes on the eight fingers of the burners, instead of one row.

The right front burner on the range pictured is a 15k burner, not an 18. Make sure that dealer orders you an 18K upgrade before taking delivery.

Been an interesting couple of days...

Correct observations, the range we received has a simmer and three 15k burners... but that was not what we were told by the sales rep at the time be bought the range.

Yesterday morning I went personally to the appliance store and spoke with the manager. Manager admits he was not present during my conversation with the sales rep but told me I must of misunderstood. I made it clear I did not misunderstand but rather the sales rep telling everyone the new style range had the same burner configuration (simmer, 2x15k, 18k) burners. Then the manager said the range would have to be shipped back to BlueStar to be reconfigured. Told the manager that was not true, that the burners are easily changed out. Manager said would call rep and get back to me.

Later received a call that the burners can be swapped out but required pulling out the complete front panel to make the swap... then said that would cost me money. Replied it would not cost me anything, that they sold me a range with an 18k burner and want that honored. Manager said that was too bad and I would have to live with the 3x15k burners. I then explained the appliance store would have to live with me sharing my experience with the Better Business Bureau about a "bait and switch" as well as posting on all the different "social networks" both locally and worldwide. The manager said he will call the rep back and try to work something out.

While waiting for the manager's reply, I called BlueStar in Pennsylvania and learned that the 15k is easily swapped out for an 18k in a matter of minutes without removing the front panel, that it is all done from the burner side. I then searched the Internet and found a video of a person swapping out a burner on this model of range in a matter of a few minutes. I emailed this video to the manager.

Later in the afternoon the manager called saying he will swap out the 18k burner from his floor model for my 15k burner. Later that evening I removed the 15k burner and orifice in literally two minutes. This morning I returned to the store and in a matter of a couple more minutes the 18k burner/orifice was in my hand and I was out the door.

A bit of a hassle but worth it in the end...

You know, unless that floor model burner came from an RCS model, it might have been a 22K.

It was the older model of the RCS... the one the new look replaced. I have now learned, thanks to everyone here on Gardenweb, that the 18k and 22k burner are the same only differing in the orifice. I will look closer at the orifice and see if the size is stamped on it... I believe the 18k orifice is a 48 gauge and the 22k is a 47 gauge. Now with this larger burner I have the option of either the 18k or 22k by just swapping out the orifice.

Casey--are you in WA state? Where did you purchase your bluestar for $2100 + tax? That seems too good to believe... --AlienAcres

AlienAcres... yes, Seattle Washington. New in the box $2149 plus tax for a total of about $2353. Also note that we do not have a convection oven, that might explain a lower price.

The orifices are not marked, however, a drill size of 5/64 will make the hole good for the 22K.(.07815"-1.984mm)diameter...And that's very close to a 47 Drill Bit Gauge (0.0785 in/1.994 mm)

A 5/64 drill bit can be found at any hardware store..

This is also about the same size as a bicycle spoke in diameter (2 mm=.797"), and can be confusing because there are many different wire gauge systems. For instance in SWG (British Standard Wire Gauge) it would be about a 14 gauge wire, in AWG (American) it would be about a 12 gauge wire.
Yes, and there's French too (Jauge de Paris). (That's a 13)

Casey, the size is stamped on the orifice, at least on my range and on the orifice I ordered from Bluestar. It should be a 48 on your range, assuming it is jetted for natural gas.

I am wondering, could you post a link to the video you sent to the manager of the retailer? I looked all over for a video of a burner/orifice swap out and couldn't find one. Thanks!
Scott

I think she saw your video Scott. You linked it on one of the threads to your youtube video.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scott's Hot rod Bluestar video

Scott... yes, the orifice is stamped with 48, and we have natural gas. Did you order directly from Bluestar or from an affliate site? I would like to order a 47 orifice to have if I wish to go to 22k.

alexr... that is the same video I was talking about.

Casey

Well, glad that the video was of use to you, Casey. I was sort of hoping you had found a vid lying around from Bluestar or something.

In any case, I ordered the orifice from Bluestar directly. I had them toss in the #47 orifice as part of that burner order I put in for Lambie, our Canadian friend who was looking to get ahold of the upgraded burner but was getting the stiff-arm treatment from everyone.

Right now, the only *confirmed* source of supply is Bluestar, but I have been doing some digging and found a different source for what *might* be the same orifice. There is simply no way for me to be sure until the new orifices show up (through a secret smuggling operation involving monks and specially trained burros)

If it fits, I will be evaluating a somewhat larger orifice than the #47 designed to provide my RCS the highest-powered burner of any residential range ever produced in the modern era of Google lawyers and corporate rule. While this will doubtless cause a firestorm of alarm should it take place, I am content to just give it a shot for the hell of it. You see, I am a long distance motorcycle rider and we routinely make drastic changes to the configurations of powerful and dangerous machines and then ride them all over the world like we owned the goddamn place, which we do.

I will keep everyone appraised of my progress.

mojavean... knew there was a reason I liked ya. Am an 80-inch wrencher and love the wind in my hair that harkins back to wild teen years in the 60s.

I went to the Bluestar site but they do not show the individual orifices, only the sets for lp to natural gas conversion. Guess have to call for the individual orifices.

Laughing at myself now because I went back to the hotrod video to see if I could figure out where that guy might of said where he got the orifices from and after a few seconds of the video I realized that it was you! Geez.

Scott... your video was a big help to me not only for making it easy to replace both the burner and orifice but also in my argument with the store manager. A big thanks...!

Keep us posted on the orifice source and if you get that burner going like an F15 over mach 2.

Casey

At least one of us has already done this. When I first got my range, I had two 15K burners that put out different flames... I checked the hole in the orifices and discovered one had an 18K brass orifice connected to a 15K burner right from the factory. I decided to leave it.

That got me into checking all the various sizes. I drilled out a 22K orifice to 3/32,(about a 42 drill gauge) adjusted the shutter and it worked - but I found too much of the flame going up the sides of the pan, so I epoxied the hole back up (JB Weld)and re-drilled it back to 22K.

I lost interest, but I imagine a 46 or 45 drill gauge would be within reason.

alexr... good to know. Scott was saying in his video that the increase from 18k to 22k was about 10 to 15% if I recall correctly and the 15k to 18k was a huge change. I suspect there is a point when going beyond 22k would as you learned caused flames to go around the pan but would also push too much heat down.

With what amounted to a #42, there was indeed plenty of heat being pumped out, and the air shutter was opened all the way for the mix. If someone was using it with a wok, (which I had in mind) it might be worth trying a #46 or #45. I don't think the heat goes down per se, the bowl might absorb some extra heat- certainly the top grate does (which I took off for the wok).

I just think the well the burner sits in, should be deeper to channel the heat more to the pan bottom if one is interested in more heat- perhaps a wok ring would help in this case. Raising the grate, for pans, helps some... and there is a big difference between a 42 and a 46 or 45 orifice. I'll be interested to hear from Scott on his quest for a bit more heat.

Casey--If I emailed you, could you tell me which dealer you used to buy your RCS304? I visited our new appliance store, the only one around here who carries bluestar, and they were totally clueless--told me that the MSRP was $3800. I told them that it wasn't possible, and the salesman said he would check with bluestar on Monday and get back to me. If they can't do better, I would have no trouble ordering from Seattle (Portland, for that matter) and driving a couple of hours to pick it up. I realize I need to get things solidified before the end of the month...

Thanks!

AlienAcres... yes I will give you the details, however it was a sale that is now over but it is an annual event.

... also, we do NOT have a convection oven, maybe that is why the lower price.

I'm looking to buy a RCS Blue Star range. I'm a little confuse...does the new model supposed to come with the 18K burner, but some have the 15K? Their website show an 18k under burner configurations, but the brochure clearly shows 3 15k's and a simmer.

theplayer... it is confusing. Here is what I have learned: The old style looking RCS with the slotted vents on the front were configured with the simmer, 2x15k and an 18k burner. The new style RCS without the slotted vents in the front (like I bought) have a simmer and 3x15k burners as a way to cut costs.

When we were in the process of purchasing this new style RCS the on-site BlueStar rep was hawking the new style range as having the simmer, 2x15k and an 18k burner... the rep was apparently not educated on the new style burner layout and telling us the burner layout was the same and did not change from the old style RCS. Since the 18k burner was the selling point for us to buy this new style range, along with the new look, we held the appliance store to the rep's word.

In short, the new style RCS does not come with an 18k burner unless it is ordered as an upgrade.

thanks..and do I have this right: no convection in the US on the new RCS?

I don't care for the slotted vents, so I'm happy with the new model, just have to get the 18K upgrade. Do most dealers do the upgrade?

Something that came to mind with the simmer, 2x15k and 18k burner layout is to have the simmer on the left rear, the 18k on the left front and the two 15k burners on the right front and right rear... then could use a griddle on the two 15k burners for even heating. Just a thought.

The new style looks very much like my 10 year old Viking.... On the other hand, there isn't whole lot you can do to the front of a range distinguish itself as a brand. I actually liked the grills on the front because it set the Bluestar apart from the other players.