Must have features? For me, just that it gets HOT! That and stainless steel everything because otherwise I find they rust quickly. I do keep mine covered.

-Stooxie

I have one enameled green.It does not rust except for the chrome trim on the doors beneath the grill.Same chrome trim as the SS model.

What you don't want is 430 SS or worse.What you want is 304 SS or better if getting a SS model. Which means none of the Chinese models available at Costco and elsewhere. But there is nothing better than 304 SS under $1200.

I want to know if the valves can control the heat settings. Is it like full on all the time?

I want to know what the burners are made of. Are they going to rust out in a year or two?

I want to know what the grates and racks are made of. I don't care for porcelain or steel. Must be stainless.

If a rotisserie is included, can it handle larger items like a turkey? Is the burner full width or narrow?

Check out this site and study some of their videos about features.

I decided to skip the side burner, since I find the extra work area more useful.

The one requirement in a good BarBQ is heavy heat retaining grates. I am not convinced that stainless really qualifies (although thats what I have). For 25 years I used to grill on an already used large charcoal CharBroil (I think thats the right name, it was top of the line then) Grill. The uncoated iron grates held up perfectly.

Gary

Down the road we may build something in but we felt like this was something we could downgrade pretty painlessly. . .

Weber Summit $1300-$2500

http://www.rasmussen.biz/grills/infravection.html

http://www.rasmussen.biz/grills/27G.html

Takes about 5 minutes to reach 700 degrees from the time you light the charcoal, can control the temp from 200 to 800+ easily, can use it as a smoker, water smoker, oven, pizza oven, high temp grill.
Full of charcoal can hold a 225 degree slow smoke for over 24 straight hours.

All made of very thick ceramic with a lifetime guarantee and only cost $570 at Costco.

Called the Vision Kamado Grill.

I thought about a gas grill, but once I saw this one and how fast it starts and is basically ready to go as fast as any gas grill is, plus is more versatile and has a lifetime guarantee and cost 1/2 and much, I quickly forgot about a gas grill.

Give that man a ceeegar! We have a gas grill that we basically never use, because we much prefer the results we get using a basic Weber kettle - in particular, I use a lot of smoke, which is easy to create and control with wood chips on charcoal; I tried all the usual was to get smoke on a gas grill and didn't find any of those satisfactory. The Kamado-style units are in a different league to the basic kettle-style - we just haven't gotten around to getting one yet.

You can use the entire grill area from low to high but still have a sear burner tucked between two conventional burners for a sear zone. Not the entire or half the grill be exclusively a sear zone.

The Kamado is very cool and if you can get Costco price and service then even better.

But it takes another level of commitment to learn the ins and outs of ceramic grill/smoker cooking.

Ducane filed for bankruptcy in 2003. Weber purchased the name only from bankruptcy court for their cheaper Chinese made grills.They have no responsibilty or obligation to cover Ducane warranty.Weber Spirit also made in China.

Speaking of....Vermont Castings.It seems they go into and out of bankruptcy every few years. You want a strong company so warranty is honored.If General Motors filed for bankruptcy any company can. But less likely with the current 800 lbs gorilla,Weber.

It kind of sounds like you're looking for a high-quality mid-range natural gas grill. Easy to control, nothing intimidating. The Kamando certainly is an impressive cooker, but I also probably comes with quite the learning curve. I know myself, when I switched from propane to a charcoal kettle, I cremated a couple good steaks until I got a hold on how charcoal acts. That all being said, I agree with the Weber recommendations. Whilst googling, I came across a review of a Jenn-Air that I've provided a link to. I have absolutely no knowledge of Jenn-Air grills, nor do I know how reliable the review that I've provided is. But it doesn't sound too promising. And the fact that Jenn-Air provides no information on a grill they slap their name on kind of raises a red flag. Hope this helps!

My old Weber I could put food on the rotisserie and basically forget about it. Getting parts was never a problem. I actually gave my Weber to my oldest son. If I had it to do over I would purchase another Weber. They probably are not going out of business any time soon, and you'll probably always be able to get parts.

The Sterling is such a pain that I now have a Traeger grill. This is a pellet grill and probably not what you are looking for. However, they shipped their manufacturing to China and you can tell the difference. It's had two issues with it's electrical. I will say that Traeger did ship out new parts at no cost. The Mak grill is suppose to be the one to get if you are into pellets. They are made in the USA and supposedly built to high standards, but I don't think they are cheap.

I have only used the side burner for emergencies when the power was out, and it wasn't very useful for that because winds were usually blowing and kept the pot from easily heating.

You have a gas BBQ. You already know everything you need to know. There is too much conspicuous consumption on this site. Yes you need a bigger grill so you can cook for a group, heavier grates to retain heat, better quality so it doesn't rust away, that's it. Put Ansel Addams in Yosemite with a Brownie; you still get a great picture. Impress your friends with your cooking rather than the equipment.

Pros use wood or charcoal. they would never use gas. Many of them use Weber kettles, but they have upgraded them to have temperature control devices.

Gas is for the convenience: quick startup heat, no ashes to deal with.

If I were doing two (and I'm looking for the 2nd), the gas grill is for things I want to cook rather quickly: hamburgers, hot dogs, steaks. Also I use it's rotisserie for chickens, turkeys and some roasts. The 2nd unit will be for smoking ribs, chops, chicken, brisket. Low and slow for several hours.

Anyway we got it in, set it all up. Very well made, nice stainless cart/nest to put it on, all high quality stainless pieces and bolts. Very nice stainless hinge and a little shock absorber in the front so the lid will never accidentally slam. The ceramic is nice and thick, no chips anywhere, was very well packed.
The racks are heavy stainless, well made and double decker and both racks fold up in half so you can get to the charcoal of you need to or to the bottom rack easily.
Racks look like they will last easily 30+ years.
Comes with two good sized wooden fold down tables on each side.

I started it with a chimney, took about 10 minutes, then dumped the charcoal in. It was really ready to go in less than 15 minutes but for the first time using it it says to let it burn about 30 minutes so I did.

I think I am going to buy what is called a "Weed Torch" a Red Dragon Weed Torch to be exact, gets to 100,000 BTU on just a small propane cylinder and takes about 1 minute to fully light a full load of Natural Hardwood Lump Charcoal.
Then close the lid, open up top and bottom vents and it is 100% ready to go at over 600 degrees in under 5 minutes total. That just as fast as a gas grill.
For smoking at 225 its ready to go in less time.

I cooked a whole chicken tonight, split in half and covered in Walkerswood Jamaican Jerk Seasoning.
Came out excellent, very juicy, falling off the bone, crispy skin, perfect.
I was able to keep the temp right where I wanted it at between 360-380 degrees with no problems at all even on my first try.

I added a few chunks of apple wood just for flavor and good smoke.

It comes with a really nice cover, heavy and well made.

All n all I am extremely happy so far, appears as though I now have a lifetime grill. I am 53 and assuming I live another 40 years at most I feel it is safe to say that I will be using this grill until I am not able to BBQ anymore.

It was $569.00 at Costco and I had my Costco rebate I get every year which this year was $115 just for the American Express part.
So the grill only cost $485 with tax.

It is basically a fully decked out Big Green Egg for $485.

I am going to smoke a bone in Prime Rib Roast on Sunday, that should be very tasty.

This grill does it all, smoker, high temp searing (800 degrees), grilling, BBQ, oven, can be ready to cook in 5 minutes. Close the vents when you are done and it puts out the charcoal in just a few minutes to save it for next time.
Lifetime guarantee on all the ceramic.

I will take some pics Sunday and post while smoking the Prime Rib.

Comes in three boxes, which may be easier to move around. Boxes say made in Mexico; I don't know the weight.

No sign of the Vision Kamado grill anywhere around, here.

Can anyone compare this Big Green Egg to the Vision Kamado?

Cant wait to do the Prime Rib tomorrow.

But for searing or grilling Jeebus, I can get this started and blazing over 600 degrees in under 5 minutes.
The Weed Torch is killer for starting it.

I seared the Prime Rib on my Griddle for a couple minutes each side, then put several whole garlic cloves under the skin and then smeared it well with Walkerswood Jamaican Jerk rub.
I do not have my Lava Stone yet that is the only thing that doesn't come with it, I ordered it but wont be here for a few days so had to improvise on a heat diffuser.
Used an old cast iron frying pan as a diffuser and drippings catcher.
The bottom rack is 19" Dia and the stainless rods are 1/4" thick.
I am using Hickory chunks and Cherry wood chips for flavor.

It held 230 degrees perfectly once it settled down.

My 94 year old mother doesn't like too much red so when I took it off the grill I opened up both top and bottom vents all the way just to see what would it would do and to sear her slice.
OMG did that thing get HOT and fast, from a steady 230 up to well over 700 before the meat had rested.
When I threw her Prime rib on the grill I almost couldn't get it off it was so dang hot it was burning my hands just trying to get near it.
In 30 seconds it had black grill marks and was seared.

I am very impressed with this Kamado grill and cant wait until next weekend. My wife's birthday so going to do a Chateaubriand.
Was so beautiful today we ate out on the deck.

Opened a nice 2004 Petite Syrah to go with it.

Best dinner I have had in ages.

I nearly ate the screen...

Also "Watch out" that cyber food can really make one put on excess weight!

Sure but I don't want to offend any one or get in a branding debate so I will try to keep to just the basic differences. I will say the the benefit of buying from Costco is that you can return the product if it doesn't meet your expectations which is very nice. For comparison I will be talking about the Large BGE Vs the Kamado.
The BGE ceramic is thicker and of better quality. This is hard to quantify on a forum and you would really have to see both products in person.
The BGE comes with a lifetime warranty and there are over 2,000 dealers nation wide Vs a variable warranty on the Kamado with a limited dealer network (think parts). Kamado will void your warranty if you don't register the product and send them a copy of your dated store receipt with in 30 days of purchase! BGE does not charge freight on warranty parts if they can go through the mail or you have them shipped to your local dealer. Kamado charges freight on warranty parts which can be significant on ceramic.
The fire box is a split on the Kamado and it does not use a ceramic fire ring. That means a big difference in high temp cooking ability and probably fire box longevity not to mention gaskets. It might be wise to inquire about fire box replacement cost including freight before purchasing.
The BGE comes with a cast iron daisy wheel top which is much nicer than the Kamado.
The Kamado has a solid SS bar that splits the lower screen vent and restricts air flow. The BGE does not.
The hinge on the BGE is vastly better.
The Dome shape is slightly flatter on the Kamado.
The Kamado does not have a plate setter (AFAIK) which is a major draw back to low and slow indirect cooking. You may find that some BGE parts or eggcessories fit the Kamado.
The Kamado is a little more than 1/2 the price of a large BGE including a nest, tray and plate setter.
The kamado has a very nice nest but the wheels didn't seem very solid and they support a lot of weight.
The vision has SS grates the BGE does not.
The one way to keep the cost down on a BGE is to buy one after an Eggfest if that's an option but the Kamado will offer a lot of people a very good value especially when bought from Costco. One final note about Kamado. They are a company that has had a very troubled past in regards to customer service and product warranty. Google is your friend here so do a little research before assuming the best price is the best value. I do believe they may have been bought by another company but it's worth knowing their back ground before buying. Either way competition is a beautiful thing for the consumer!

Does anyone know if Costco plans to carry both brands? IIRC, they carry a couple of gas grills, here, so I wonder if they'll soon have both a medium BGE and a large Kamado -- or if different stores will sell different brands, for some reason.

Nunyabiz's prime rib photos are sure appetizing...

This is false, the Vision is actually thicker and weighs 40lbs more, quality of ceramic is debatable but I see no difference.
----------------------------------
"The BGE comes with a lifetime warranty "

the Vision is also a lifetime warranty on the Ceramic parts and 5 years on the metal parts which are high quality stainless not painted steel like the BGE, buy it from Costco and you have the best warranty you can get from any where and can take it back years later if something happens.
-----------------------

"the fire box is a split on the Kamado and it does not use a ceramic fire ring. That means a big difference in high temp cooking ability and probably fire box longevity not to mention gaskets."

I fail to see how a very thick cast iron plate is going cause a big difference in high temp cooking ability.
Firebox is split to prevent cracking.
I might add that I have seen many BGEs with the exact same cast iron plate in the bottom, I assume that is what you are calling a "fire ring".
----------------

"The Kamado has a solid SS bar that splits the lower screen vent and restricts air flow. The BGE does not. '

If it restricts it then I am glad it does as the airflow is insane and wide open it becomes a literal blow torch. It went from a steady 230 degrees for 3 hours up to over 750 degrees in a matter of a few minutes once I opened the top & bottom vents.

-----------------------------

"The hinge on the BGE is vastly better."

From everything I have seen of the 20 or so different hinges you can see on BGEs I would have say that is false.
At best they are the same, in reality the Vision is actually better, it is beefy, its stainless whereas most of the ones for the BGE are not, the band is stainless, the bolts are all high quality stainless and again no such thing on the BGE that I have seen unless they have changed it again.

Here is the BGE hinge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbmwBe3T00I

Here is the Vision hinge starting at 3:25 in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybAhPXsPbOU&feature=related

In fact the band, the table mounts and everything else seem better quality on the Vision also, they are all high quality stainless not painted steel like the BGE.
--------------------------------

"The Kamado does not have a plate setter (AFAIK) which is a major draw back to low and slow indirect cooking. You may find that some BGE parts or eggcessories fit the Kamado"

That is false, the Vision actually has a very nice plate setter and excellent Lava Stone equally as nice as the BGE.
The stone itself is actually better on the Vision, although the setter looks better on the BGE.

You can see the nice Lava Stone and plate setter in this video at 47 seconds into it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-5-aR6hbJI

-----------------------------------------

"The kamado has a very nice nest but the wheels didn't seem very solid and they support a lot of weight."

the nest is actually considerably better on the Vision and maybe they changed the wheels on the 2012 models because mine are rock solid hard rubber casters.
You can see the casters in this pic, plus the very nice heavy duty grill cover.

--------------------

"The vision has SS grates the BGE does not."

Yep, solid stainless and both racks fold up so you can get under to the coals and add wood if needed.
it is made of very thick 1/4" thick stainless rods, should last a lifetime.

Everything I have seen of customer service was they were absolutely outstanding, I have no first hand experience of that but going the reviews I see it seems true enough.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/vision-grills-kamado-pro-charcoal-ceramic -grill-217929.html

and just for clarification both the BGE and the Vision are "Kamado style grills"

My post was not meant to offend any Kamado owners but rather to offer specific points for others to consider when comparing a BGE and Kamado Vision. My interest in ceramic grills started when I switched from a gas grill. While this may be slightly OT I hope it will be of interest to the OP.
The Costco return policy is very nice but I'm sure I'm not the only one that has noticed that tighten up in recent years. Costco won't help you get warranty parts.
In this thread I am comparing Kamado the company. Lets not confuse that with a style of cooker. It's also important to note that Kamado had massive warranty problems before the company was sold in 2011. Kamado should not be confused with Komodo which another ceramic grill maker.
Weight is not a good measurement of ceramic quality especially when you get a product made in China. Buyers should compare the Large BGE to the Vision not the medium.
The thing I really wanted to address is the above quote as it clearly shows some product confusion between the two grills.
The fire ring is a ceramic ring that sets on top of the fire box. Not the cast Iron plate on the bottom of the Charcoal. With out a ceramic fire ring the high temps produced by lump charcoal will likely destroy gaskets prematurely and that is not a warranty topic. Kamado appears to have eliminated the fire ring for two reasons.
The split fire box on a Kamado would likely deteriorate under the weight of a fire ring and eliminating the fire ring allowed them to use a double grate. The grate may seem like a nice feature at first blush but it does come with a trade off. Even more important will be the wear on the lip of the lower ceramic unit from the heat. Remember if you have to have a lower unit replaced freight is not included from Kamado.
The best bet on hinge quality etc is to go to the store and lift the lid on each product. I'd never buy either one site unseen, not even from Costco.
Again I hope this will be of help to others starting to think about switching from gas to charcoal.

"I am wondering about the pros and cons of gas vrs. charcoal. Maybe I should consider two grills....I never imagined there was so many outdoor options."

and you yourself gave some very good pointers on charcoal Vs gas usage.
Charcoal/Wood burning grills should always be given some consideration when it comes to what grill to buy as they can produce flavors and quality BBQ that gas just can not do.
To me about the only thing that gas grills are better at is ease of use with short cooking meats like throwing on a quick burger or dawg.
The perfect combo would be to get a Kamado style grill/smoker/oven and then buy a small but ultra nice gas true infrared grill that is portable like the Solaire.

Then you have the best of both worlds and a gas grill for home that when you go camping or to the beach or tailgating or where ever you can take with you which you can not do with a Kamado. That is where a gas grill really shines is portability but if you have some giant gas grill then you take away its best attribute.

Then when you want a quick burger, dawg, salmon steak etc you just fire up the Infrared cooker and everything else you fire up the Kamado. In fact with the Solaire infrared sitting next to the Kamado you can quickly sear your meat like I did on my griddle before you put it on to smoke or roast.
Also with the 500,000btu Weed Torch which is only $19.99 you can fire up your lump charcoal in the Kamado in 5 minutes and you are ready to cook. Takes virtually the same time to fire up a gas grill.

Both of them combined would be $570 plus $360 so for under $1000 you have the perfect grilling setup.

I am most likely going to buy the Solaire next year just to have it.
Right now when I want a quick burger or dawg or salmon steak I fire up my griddle on my gas stove, flavor is basically the same but I cant take my gas range with me anywhere.

Also if I want that true "grilling flavor" which to me is the sole reason to grill in the first place and we are having company over then I can fire up the Kamado in 5 minutes and get a real wood fired burger, or make up some pizza dough and wood fire some killer pizzas with the plate setter and Lava Stone.
For true grilling and BBQ and smoking nothing touches charcoal/wood.

The BGE is also a Kamado grill

Has nothing to do with the Vision grill however anymore than it does the BGE.

You keep calling the Vision grill "Kamado" which is confusing, but I now see what you are talking about with the "fire ring" that is basically just an extension of the fire box. Don't see why that would make much difference.
Also for about $15 you can change the gasket with top quality Nomex in a couple of minutes.
Something you will also do with the BGE anyway in time.

As for the thickness of the ceramic the Vision is a bit thicker, as for the quality or the ceramic don't know but its a lifetime guarantee so we will see.
But for $570 Vs $1200+ for a large BGE its no contest.

I have yet to see anything bad about the Vision customer service myself.

That is incorrect. Kamado is the same company that had tons of negative press and made the ceramic cookers you mention with cracking and other problems. They have a dedicated fraud forum.

http://kamadofraudforum.org/index.php

Kamado (the company) was bought out in 2011 (didn't we already cover this?) by a new company so customer service is unknown at this juncture. This company is the one making the "vision" that is being sold at Costco.

Komodo makes the units that are $3,000 plus with the tiles and they are a very nice product. There shouldn't be any confusion between Kamado and Komodo. Very different products. Very different price point, entirely different Companies. Here is a link with a Komodo;

http://www.nakedwhiz.com/productreviews/komodokamado2/kk2-01.htm

None of that has any relation to BGE other than saying it's a "Kamado" style cooker which just means stove or oven.

BGE has been around for nearly 40 years.

I think your streeeeetching things a bit with price. A large BGE with plate setter, cover, nest, tables and usually delivery runs $900-$1,000. They have sold them at Costco and Sams in the past for a good bit less. You can also save a LOT buying one from a dealer after an Eggfest.

I hope that resolves any branding confusion and I just don't think I could add more othor than to say changing a gasket is not something you want to do unless you have to. They should last for years. When you do change Nomex is the only way to fly for high temp cooking.
I sincerely hope we haven't driven this too far off the rails for the OP.

The "Komodo Kamado Grill" the really expensive one IS the one that is pure junk, tiles falling off, cracking, not delivering product for months on end etc.
It is the one they are showing pictures of, lots of pictures of in that fraud site you just listed.
They have nothing to do with Vision grills.
I looked that site over pretty good, used the search option etc and came up with zero related to Vision or Phase 2 in St Louis.

Vision grills is a company out of St Louis MO.

Kamodo Kamado grills are based somewhere in Indonesia and still owned by the same guy I think. look carefully at the website you listed, same guy, same grills.

Has zip to do with Vision which is a company called "Phase 2 LLC" based in St Loius Mo.

As for the price you could very well be correct on that I will take your word for it as you clearly know more about the BGE than I. I know around here I have never seen the large BGE with nest etc for less than $1200.
I originally wanted a BGE but not for the price that I keep seeing around here or a few places online I have checked.
It is why I waited for the Vision at Costco.

Now as for whom actually makes the Vision grill I am pretty sure they are made by a company called "Auplex Appliance Co" in China, you can see them here and looks like the exact same grill. Considering the fact that Kamado ovens originated in China 3000 years ago, what better place to have them made than China?

BUT the Vision Grill at Costco is NOT being made by that horrible Kamodo Kamado company.

No more related than BGE is to them.

The Vision grill manufacturer has been making them since 2003.

So I freaked out, then calmed down and went OK lets see what the customer service is, here goes nothing I figured.

I went online registered it for the warranty thing, took 1 minute. Its just name address when and where you bought it hit send that's it.
Then went to the warranty claim section, they had a list of parts, I chose firebowl. Checked "other" explained what I saw, sent in a picture etc.
Hit send.
Much to my surprise I had 3 responses all within 5 minutes.
first was registration confirmation, second was confirmation of warranty claim which were all immediate then 4 Minutes later! I get an email from someone named Carolyn Richards executive Vise president of Phase 2, LLC / Vision Grills.

Email was as follows:

""Hi Nunya,

Thank you for your purchase. Yes, I see the crack is quite extensive. By the way you can continue to use the grill until you receive your new firebowl. Please send your address and phone number.

Regards,

Carolyn Richards
Executive Vice President
Phase 2, LLC / Vision Grills
1531 Fairview Avenue, Suite B
St. Louis, MO 63132
USA
Office 314.428.3166

www.visiongrills.com

carolyn.richards@visiongrills.com

"Bringing Back Flavor"
============================================================
Yes I use "Nunyabiz" on my personal email also, lol

So that settles the customer service question I always have with something new I buy.
Cant get any better than that.
I literally took 2 minutes to register and send claim and in under 5 minutes I have a response.
I sent in my info, real name and address and phone number received conformation back from her 8 minutes later stating the firebowl should be sent out before the end of TODAY free of charge UPS.

Wham Bam Thank You Mam!

So we will see what happens, I will continue to use the cracked firebowl until it is unusable which could be days or really could last many many years, then I have a brand new firebowl to just plop right in when needed.
Although come to think of it, I may actually use the new one ONCE just in case to make sure it doesn't do the same then take it out wrap it well and store it under the house until needed.

Now to be fair I have seen LOTS of BGE's with cracked firebowls also.
Here is a article talking about it here basically stating that virtually everyone gets a cracked firebowl but not to worry. So that makes me feel better.
I also see that they do the same thing I had planned to do, use the old until you just cant then put in the new one.

http://www.nakedwhiz.com/ceramicfaq.htm#cracked

Here is the crack, all N all not that bad of a crack really and may never get any bigger. But I am very impressed with the customer service I must say.

Now lets grill some thing!

and AGAIN Vision is NOT the "Kamado" company you keep referring to.<---Read that last sentence again.
There is no "past" to be aware of and the company has not changed hands.

It is made of the exact "high fire ceramic" that the BGE is made of, the only difference is that the metal on the Vision is high quality 304 stainless instead of painted steel like the BGE. It is heavier because its thicker and slightly larger.

All you need to do is take literally less than 1 minute to register it, name, address, when and where you bought it, hit send and your done.

Obviously Vision stands behind theirs also so I am happy as can be.

2000 BGE across the country means nothing to me, but having a Costco 2 miles away that will take anything back does.
Also a company that responds instantly, no questions asked, instant replacement of a part is as good as it gets.

Grilling Filet on Saturday and might try a Pizza on Thursday.

I have had good luck with companies this week.
My 28 year old Fenwick fly rod broke about 6" up from the ferrule, have used the pure hell out of it over the decades.
Called the company to see if I could buy a new top half and I could not because they don't even make that exact model anymore and each one is made at the same time from the same blank and made to fit, so cant really buy a top half anyway.
Once they learned that it broke while fishing and not slammed in a car door they said well that rod has a lifetime guarantee.
We don't have that exact model but we do have one of the same size and action and weight.
So they are sending me a brand new flyrod as good or better than my old one, just cost $9 for shipping.

Not bad for a rod that 28 years ago cost me I think it was around $70 and now the replacement is about $200.
Was no questions asked, just sending a new rod, should be here tomorrow.

My husband was given one in the mid 80's... it was a few years old. It's still going strong - many decades later.

We looked at the BGE at Costco... and decided that when (if?) the weber ever dies, we'll consider that.

I guess we're old school (and cheap).

Can someone please explain the differences between weber's summit and genesis lines? Also, is the "e" or "s" line preferable? What exactly do the flavorized bars do? Do they replace wood chips for flavoring? Do the flavorized bars really inpart flavor or are they a waste? What is a "snap jet system"?

My current NG grill is on a post. Do any of Weber's grills allow for that? I saw
built in models and free standing models.

Any recommendations on BTUs?

What I really want is a gas grill that can give me charcoal or wood flavor...Will
the fire boxes do that?

If anyone is in the mood to analyze the different models within the different lines, that would be a wonderful contribution to outdoor cooking newbies like myself.

'Flavorizors' (sometimes called 'flame tamers') basically are pieces of metal that cover the burners and protect them from drippings. The drippings vaporize giving some of that flavor back to what you are cooking. I would not say they replace wood chips for flavoring.

Im not aware of any Weber's that sit on a post.

You need charcoal or wood to get charcoal or wood flavor. The simplest way is to put water-soaked wood chips into some aluminum foil (I've used cheap aluminum meatloaf trays from the grocery), set them on a burner and let them smoke as I cook.

It smoked perfectly for 12 hours and 10 minutes until internal temp read 195.
Came out perfect, very tasty and could easily get it started, fine tune it for the first 30 minutes or so and then just go to sleep while it cooks all night with no worries at all.

When it was all done, after over 12 hours of cooking I still had at least 1/2 of the charcoal in the fire bowl left for next time.
Smokes forever at under 250 degrees.

Going to do Baby Back Ribs next.

I also grilled 3 Steaks last Saturday which cooked faster than any grill I have ever used.
I got the grill to 700+ degrees, threw the steaks on, 2 thick Filets and one nice Ribeye and only took about 2 1/2 to 3 minute per side.
Perfect medium rare, nice char on the outside, seared very nicely.
This Kamado type BBQ is the best grill I have ever owned and thankfully should last the rest of my life.

It smoked perfectly for 12 hours and 10 minutes until internal temp read 195.
Came out perfect, very tasty and could easily get it started, fine tune it for the first 30 minutes or so and then just go to sleep while it cooks all night with no worries at all.

When it was all done, after over 12 hours of cooking I still had at least 1/2 of the charcoal in the fire bowl left for next time.
Smokes forever at under 250 degrees.

Going to do Baby Back Ribs next.

I also grilled 3 Steaks last Saturday which cooked faster than any grill I have ever used.
I got the grill to 700+ degrees, threw the steaks on, 2 thick Filets and one nice Ribeye and only took about 2 1/2 to 3 minute per side.
Perfect medium rare, nice char on the outside, seared very nicely.
This Kamado type BBQ is the best grill I have ever owned and thankfully should last the rest of my life.

A while ago, I came across mention of "reverse sear" as a good way to cook steaks in something like your Vision Kamado grill.

Basically, you cook the steaks first at ~200 or so, to an internal temp you want, then take them out to rest. Meanwhile, crank up your grill. Then after ~5 min or so when the steaks have lost a few degrees, you put them back in at 700+ degrees for less than a min., just to sear each side. See link for more details.

Looking forward to maybe trying it this summer...

Would work perfectly on these types of grills as you can get the temp from that 225 degree slow smoke to up over 700 in just a few minutes.

This Vision grill does look well-built, and it comes with more stuff (a cover, two pine side tables, a solid-looking stainless steel stand). Its all in one large box, and I think it would be very difficult for less than two adults to cart it up or down stairs; the size and weight of this may be a concern for some.

I'm drawn to this sort of grill like a moth to a flame, but so far haven't written a check...

Write that check.

This is the best grill ever, been using the living hell out of it for 3 months now. Prime Rib, Baby Back Ribs, lots of BBQ Chicken, Burgers, everything comes out great.
Super easy to use, can get it ready to smoke 225-250 in about 2 minutes, ready to do basic grilling 325-375 like Chicken in about 3-4 minutes, and searing steaks 600-700+ in about 5-6 minutes.

Still using that same cracked firebowl, it hasn't changed at all so will probably last just like that for many many years to come and I have a brand new one waiting.
Vision Grills has an excellent customer service dept.

For the price the Vision is a MUCH better deal and it is every bit as good of a Kamado grill as the BGE is.
It is $569.00 at Costco.

and yes this grill weighs in at 200# and was a chore for my wife and I to haul out of my 4Runner, down 37 steps, through the house and out to the back deck.
If it weighed 5# more I am not sure my wife could have held up her side and that was using one of those "appliance carrier belts" that you put a shoulder harness on and a big 6" wide belt between you with the box in between.

Without that there would have been NO WAY we would have gotten it down our steps.

Fantastic grill, well worth the price.

I am going to pick up one of these pretty soon, it is an after market grid system for the Vision Grill.
Looks like it should make the Vision Grill even more versatile.

Can even set up a nice 16" WOK with it.

With this grid setup you can cook anything on this grill.

DH is the grillmaster, I just tell him how I want it to come out. He prefers gas for convenience, but charcoal gives the best flavor. We don't use either for smoking, we have an electric smoker which we bought after many fruitless attempts at smoking on the charcoal grill. Again, this is for convenience. After getting up all through the night on Christmas eve when we were smoking our turkey, I swore I would never do it again.

Cheryl

As a smoker they are unbeatable, I can get this ready to smoke at 225 degrees in about 2 minutes.
Spend maybe 15-20 minutes fine tuning it, tending it and then that is it.
I can then just go right to sleep and not worry about it at all, it will hold that 225-230 degree temp all day, all night long without having to touch it at all.

I am finding this grill "almost" as convenient as using a gas grill, for the difference in far better flavor and very close to being as easy as a gas grill it is really the perfect grill.
It also does everything, its a great grill, excellent smoker, nice oven, super hot searing.
It does everything a gas, charcoal, infrared, and smoker do all in one.

Nunyabiz is certainly passionate about his choice. That is good.

It is a pita for me to pick up a bag of charcoal whenever I want to grill/bbq. I may not need a whole bag, but I don't want to run out in the middle of a party or cook session. I don't want to get my clothes dirty when I handle the charcoal, which used to happen, long ago. My time is too important, esp. if there is a less time consuming option. Gas is there, ready to cook. Done.

In the midwest, humid, it is awful to store charcoal nuggets. There is either snow, or rain or humidity and the charcoal must be kept dry. It must be in some kind of space-taking container, protected from the elements.

The heavy, messy bag must be taken out of it's home and turned upside down and shaken, and try to get the right amount into the chimney.

Or I go onto the back porch and turn on the grill. While it's heating, I go back into the house and wait for the correct temp, which I can see from inside.

There is no chimney to fuss with and distribute the hot coals, no flying sparks. I had charcoal. I hated it.

Your food looks delicious, Nunyabiz. I'm sure it is. Happy cooking.

I just pour the charcoal in the firebox, light the weed torch, and in less than 45 seconds the charcoal is fully lit. Close the lid, adjust the vents for what temp you need, if smoking the grill is ready within 2 minutes.

I used to go through the same hassle you speak of but got it down to a science now.
Even cleaning out the ashes is rather easy, I have a tiny little dustpan and whisk broom that works great, 98% of the charcoal ashes stay on top of the removable ceramic disc anyway, so just pull it out and throw the ashes away, sweep out the tiny amount left over and I am good to go for at least 3 BBQs or more.

But you are correct, storing of the Charcoal, Wood Chunks, Weed Torch are something that needs to be considered.

My question - what is the difference between NG and Propane? Can a Propane unit be hooked up the the home gas line? My husband wants a unit to hook up to the house gas line.

Thanks for all the great info!

Most grills (better ones, anyway) can be purchased either way. They can also be converted from one to the other with a new regulator and new jets fitted.

Nunya, from the time you first dump coal into the cooker, how long before you put the meat on the grill? Wait for the coals to get gray? Yes or no? How long does that take, average, average?

Then what is the point of having the quick ignitor?

I turn on my gas grill and wait 5 minutes. I'm not trying to rub salt in the wound, but there's gotta be an answer. The answer is not in how the burgers are shaped.

If I am "grilling" something like Chicken which is usually 325-350 degrees the Chicken is on the grill in about 3-4 minutes or less.

Burgers I usually cook about 400 degrees so burgers are on the grill in about 5 minutes.

Steaks I usually sear and do that around 600-700+ degrees, that usually takes about 5-6 minutes, I will use the weed torch longer, instead of 30 seconds or so like I would for smoking I will really get the coals going strong, take 60 seconds or maybe a bit longer then it takes less time overall for the coals to reach 600+.

When you do not use any kind of starter fluid or ANYTHING to actually start the coal except just flame then there is absolutely no reason to wait on the coals except to wait until desired temp is reached. Which on my grill is between 2-6 minutes 220 to over 600 degrees.

As far as my recommendation to make the center of the burger thinner it is the best way to get a evenly cooked burger.
Shape of the burger is key to getting it done perfectly.

Either make the center slightly thinner OR make the entire burger quite thin like most burger joints do.
That way at 400 or so degrees with the lid CLOSED you get a nice char and grill marks on the outside while the inside is a nice very lite pink medium.

You can also take 2 thin burgers and sandwich some cheese or sauteed onions and mushrooms in between them, crimp the edges good all around and make a "Stuffed Burger" which works quite well also because the center is not meat it only needs to get hot and the two thin burgers cook pretty evenly.

I appreciate what you said about waiting for temps.

Thanks.

That is only if you are using lighter fluid you need to allow time for the fluid to burn off so you don't get that nasty taste.
With hardwood lump charcoal lit with just flame (weed torch) you get zero nasty taste, nothing but good wood flavor, add a few chunks of what ever hardwood you like, Hickory, Apple, Cherry etc and all you get is really good wood smoke flavor from the minute you light the coals.
Doesn't really take me anymore time to get this Kamado grill ready than it would to get a gas grill hot.

There is a lot of confusion here. The first thing to understand is that Kamado is a STYLE of cooker... NOT a brand name. The Kamado company that manufactures junk has had many locations and names over the years but all have been owned and operated by Richard Johnson (now called Kamado USA). One of these factories was in Indonesia which was left abandoned when R.J. took the cash and ran. These grills cost well over $1k. You can read all the sordid details (including the theft of a racing yacht) at the fraud forum: http://www.kamadofraudforum.org. Dennis Linkletter began to manufacture a new Kamado style grill using a different design with completely different materials in the same area of Indonesia. These grills are state of the art, endorsed by Chris Lilly, and run $3k+. Dennis's company is called Komodo Kamado.

Both companies have nothing to do with the brand of cooker sold @ Costco.

I'm not sure if you've had an answer yet to your question. If you're getting burgers that are cooked on the outside and still raw in the middle, it sounds like you're cooking on too high heat. The outside then chars before the inside gets a chance to cook. I'm surprised that the Weber instructions recommend lid-off grilling. The lid and vents are the only way using charcoal you can control the heat. The more open the vents, the more oxygen is allowed to the charcoal and the fast (and hotter) it burns. The more the vents are closed, the opposite happens. I use a chimney starter and always wait for the charcoal to ash over before I dump the coal into the grill. I've found in the past that if I dump it in before all the charcoal is ashy, then the unlit charcoals light in the grill while the meat is cooking and I get temperature spikes while cooking. I've always read that it is proper to wait for the coals to ash over, and I find that what works best for me. As far as pyramid vs. spread out, it depends on how you want to cook. Spread out charcoal will give you a moderate even heat all over the grill. If you create a pyramid or pile of charcoal in a certain area of the grill, then you've effectively given yourself cooking zones. The pile will be very hot and intense heat, while elsewhere on the grill the heat will be lest direct and allow the meat to roast. I normally give myself zones, that way I can sear meat and get a good crust initially, and then move the meat to the indirect area to finish the meat to my desired done-ness. Give yourself some time with the Weber. It can be frustrating but once you get the hang of it you'll love it. Hope that helps, and best of luck!

A good book to start is Steven Raichlen's Barbecue Bible. Or almost anything by him. Search by his name on Amazon and you'll see many, many titles. He also has a TV show on PBS. He likes Weber a lot and has many useful tips.

Have fun,
Cheryl

I use the Weed Torch because it is WAY better than any other method, I actually bought a chimney starter and used it once.
Was painfully slow and took forever and a hassle to mess with.

With the weed torch you simply pour your charcoal into the grill. Light the torch and use it all over the charcoal until the charcoal is going good, takes about 30 seconds if you are smoking and maybe 60 seconds if you are grilling or searing.
Cost about $20 for the torch and $25 for the small propane tank which will last for a long time between fills.
Plus it doubles as obviously a weed torch if you need to get rid of some weeds.

Now if you have a "propane starter" internal in the grill already then that's great, just put your charcoal in he grill and light it. That is basically exactly what I am doing just that my "propane starter" is in the form of an external 500,000 BTU weed torch.
Not sure why it would take an "hour" to get your coals started though, if you close the lid and open up all the vents top and bottom you should get a good air flow going through the coals and they should light much faster than that. With "Hardwood Lump Charcoal" using the weed torch for 60 seconds, closing the lid and opening up top and bottom vents I can have my Kamado Grill blazing hot at well over 600 degrees in about 5-6 minutes total.
350 degrees takes like 3 minutes or so.

http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html

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. .

Myself the best Lump Charcoal that I can easily obtain in my area is the "Harris Teeter" brand which is actually made by a very good charcoal company called "Natures Grilling".

It is made with "Ebony, Limoncillo, Tenaza, Hueso de tigre, Mezquite", hardwoods
This charcoal in a good Kamado grill will attain over 900 degree temps.

This mixture of hardwood charcoal gives very nice wood smoke flavor all by itself, add a few chunks of Hickory, Apple, Cherry wood and you have a great wood smoke flavor.

I am going to be starting up the grill in about 45 minutes to grill up some Jamaican Jerk Chicken. Going to use Cherry Wood.

Link for reviews of Lump Charcoal.

http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpindexpage.htm?bag

1. Count the number of individuals who recommend weber gas

2. count the number of individuals who recommend kamodo/komodo charcoal

3. count the number of posts by the guy who passionately loves his komodo

4. step back and think about it

5. you already bought the charcoal grill. It takes how long before it is ready to cook? The weber gas takes 5-10 mins depending on temp.

6. Use your kop!

That's like saying on a post about Beer.

1 count the number of people that recommend Budweiser

2 count the number of people that recommend Deschutes Brewery, "The Abyss"

Bud is one of the worst beers ever brewed, it is classic horse pee as far as beer goes.
YET it sells more than any other American beer, nothing comes close because it is sold everywhere and puts out many millions in advertising.
1000s upon 1000s would recommend Budweiser as their beer of choice in this country.

Now Deschutes Brewery The Abyss ale is one of the very best beers in the world, not just the USA.
That would be my recommendation for the best beer.

Now which one is truly "better"?

Horse pee with millions in advertising that is available on every street corner in the country for cheap or truly one of the best beers in the world, only available from one place and only a couple months out of the year for $14 a 22oz bottle?

If you only have say $150 for a grill then a good little Weber Kettle is by far the best choice.

If you are talking about spending between $500-$1200 though?

Any number of Kamado type grills be it the Big Green Egg, Primo, or the Vision are better BY FAR.
Most of the Webers mentioned here I think are what, about $600-$900?
The Vision I got from Costco was $570, less money, lifetime warranty, costco return policy, will BBQ, Grill, Sear, Smoker, Water Smoker, Pizza Oven, Wok, easy to start, very efficient use of charcoal, can maintain almost exact temps like you can on your indoor range from 200 up to 800+ degrees.

So $570 Kamado or $600++ Weber Gas is a total no brainer as far as usability and value for the money.

If Avid still prefers Gas no matter what then for the money the Solaire Infravection grills are far better than the Webers though cost a few hundred more, but what is an extra $200 when you are spending $1200 when you get a far better grill?

Lower priced Weber Charcoal grills are hard to beat.
If you are spending $900-$1500 then there are certainly better options for that price.

and Charcoal beats the heck out of gas for absolutely everything except for ease of use.

I checked out the weather about 3:30pm and no surprise I see an incoming front of storms coming in, according to the radar they looked like they would get here in about 45 minutes.
So if I wanted to BBQ this chicken I had to do it now or eat something else.
I ran down stairs, pulled out the torch, lit the grill which took about 30 seconds.
Ran inside grabbed the chicken the tongs etc which took me about 3-4 minutes, by the time I got back outside the grill was at 325 degrees, I closed the vents top and bottom just a bit to slow down the heat, it rose to 375 then back down to 350 and stayed there.
From start to finish I had the chicken cooked and on the table in less than 35 minutes total the rain came in about 10-15 minutes later.
A gas grill would have taken just as long and would not have tasted as good as BBQing on Ebony, Limoncillo, Tenaza, Hueso de tigre, Mesquite, lump charcoal topped with chunks of Cherry wood.

In my area the best all around Lump Charcoal is the Harris Teeter brand which is a grocery store, their store brand is made by "Natures Grilling" charcoal and is very good and only $4.99 a 6.6lb bag.
Second best is the Royal Oak Lump

You can almost always find something like Royal Oak Lump at Walmart which yo are bound to have one near you.

Check out the nakedwhiz charcoal site to see what is good and try to find it in your area.

To test the temp of the charcoal you need a thermometer, buy one that sits on your grilling rack, close the lid and check it ever few minutes until its at the temp you want.

If you can place your charcoal into the grill and then turn on the gas and light it then true should be no need for anything else.

Standard one like this.
This one seems to be about the best choice for this type, I do not own it myself so cant say one way or another from experience, but going by reviews it seems to be well received.
Only $7, free shipping

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Law-Grill-Surface-Thermometer/dp/B005BAQDI2

Or you could go a bit more high tech and get something like this. Which will also have many more uses than just the temp of your grill surface, can check your house for thermal leaks, check frying oil on stove top, anything you need to check the temp of.
$49, free shipping and appears to be the best choice in this price range.

In fact I think I am going to buy one of these myself.

http://www.amazon.com/Mastercool-MSC52224A-Non-Contact-Infrared-Thermo meter/dp/B000TM7HXC/ref=pd_sbs_hg_4