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cat_mom

Miele 1/2 tabs not cleaning as well as they had been?

cat_mom
11 years ago

I have noticed of late, that stuff isn't necessarily coming out quite as clean as it had been using the 1/2 Miele tabs. Glasses sometimes come out of the DW with a little schmutz or a "greasy" film (especially if the glasses went into the DW all fingerprinted up--like they are when we are eating buffalo wings!). Flatware and dishes too have the occasional schmutz more often than I recall happening before. I haven't gotten a new box of tablets in a while, so that hasn't changed. I cut up a bunch at once, and store them in a pint deli container with a closed lid. Do the tablets degrade, or lose effectiveness over time? Do they have a "best by" date???

I ran a sani-cycle, and used the Miele DW conditoner recently, but I'm not sure it made a difference. I have used full tabs in a few recent cycles (esp if very full, or extra grimy), and I think the glasses came out "squeakier" clean than they have been in recent 1/2 tab cycles (prior to this, they came out perfectly shiny and clean using the 1/2 tabs).

Any thoughts from the Miele/Miele tabs gurus before I call Miele?

Comments (63)

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    We have the water softener enabled in our Optima, so I don't think a change in the water hardness would affect the cleaning ability. The softener is set to soften the water when it reaches (is) 6 degrees of hardness (or higher).

    We did a hot water hook-up, so the water going into the machine is hot to begin with. I would think if it's not heating it enough, even the full tabs would do a poor job of cleaning. The full tabs are working great, and the 1/2 tabs aren't horrible, just not quite cleaning as well as they had been all along.

  • eandhl
    11 years ago

    Wondering if the tabs could go stale - still useable but loosing some effectiveness? Thus working when you use the whole tab now. ????? Just a thought.

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Maybe. Full tab didn't do a great job on my flatware earlier. Bummer!!!

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    After the load with the dirty flatware, I tossed some white vinegar in the bottom of the DW, and placed a glass measuring cup filled partway with more white vinegar (1-1 1/2-1 3/4??? cups worth) in the middle of the bottom rack. Ran a Sani cycle. When that was finished, I poured the liquid sitting in the cup into the bottom of the DW, and ran it again, normal cycle, to make sure the vinegar was rinsed out.

    I ran the DW last night--small load,and used a "small" 1/2 tab (I don't always cut them perfectly in half). Everything came out spotless, even the flatware. I will report back on future 1/2 tab and full tab loads. Maybe the vinegar helped clean out spray arms or other parts?

  • rococogurl
    11 years ago

    Sani Cycle always seems to do the job.

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I ran a Sani cycle with no vinegar prior to using the Miele DW conditioner, so the cycle alone didn't do the job :( but I certainly hope this did the trick!!

  • a2gemini
    10 years ago

    According to the Appliance Doctor - never store your tabs or DW under sink - the moisture ruins them - I do but they are in a sealed container but it might be part of the problem.

    He also recommends using Tang to clean the DW - scary what it would do to us!!

    I used the conditioner from Miele - and it looks great - but saved the container to use with Tang next time for comparison

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I have no place else to store them so they are accessible when I need to run the DW. I keep the whole tabs in their original package, but store the cut ones In a deli container.

    Wonder if Tang does a better job than the vinegar??? Probably smells better! LOL

    Not sure how well it worked. One or two loads looked great, one was so-so on the flatware (everything else in the load looked totally fine).

    Running a full load with a 1/2 tab right now, so will see how it turns out.

  • a2gemini
    10 years ago

    Cat mom - how did they come out?
    I had been using a zip lock bag to store them and have thu full boxes on a zip lock and the open ones in a deli container as well. My SIL uses one of those locking storage tubs for hers.

  • larsi_gw
    10 years ago

    I LOVE Somat 10 dishwasher tabs. Not sold in the USA, but my family that comes out every Summer from Germany usually brings me about 6-8 boxes, and they last me a year (I usually fun my Miele La Perla II dishwasher 3-4x a week). You might be able to order these from an online German or European store/market. NOTHING works better. I do not put chunks of food in my dishwasher, but I DO NOT pre-rinse anything. These Somat 10 tabs leave my dishes, glasses and flatware just sparkling!!

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    larsi--the Somat 3, 7, 10.... tablets appear to have salt and rinse aid in the tablets themselves. We add salt to our machine, as well as rinse aid, so I don't think we could use those tablets, even if we could find them???

    a2gemini--everything came out spotless in last night's load (with the 1/2 tab). I am wondering if the uppermost spray arm--the one attached to the top of the DW, is/was clogged (with mineral deposit build-up, despite the salt and conditioner use recently) and perhaps the vinegar helped clear it up (or at least some of it)?

  • Cavimum
    10 years ago

    "Wonder if Tang does a better job than the vinegar???"
    It probably would. You could also just buy Lemi-Shine and use that instead of Tang. Lemi-Shine is mostly citric acid, a Tang ingredient, without the and sugar and artificial color. It is stocked in almost all grocery and big box discount stores in my area, usually near the DW detergents. Citric acid really does a good job of dissolving mineral deposits from water. I learned about Lemi-Shine here on GW and am so grateful!

    This post was edited by Cavimum on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 13:14

  • larsi_gw
    10 years ago

    cat mom...I run salt and rinse aid in my Miele LaPerla as well. I have used the Somat tabs for at least 3 years, and my dishes look absolutely amazing!!!

  • larsi_gw
    10 years ago

    @ cavimum...I LOVE Lemi Shine as well. I have used 2 bottles of the Lemi Shine Rinse aid, and it is great. I like it more than Miele, Somat and Jet Dry! It is not expensive, and just works great. With the regular use of the Somat dishwasher tabs and Lemi Shine rinse aid, I have not had to use Lemi Shine powder in a long time...but it is a great product!!

  • rococogurl
    10 years ago

    Somat 3 is sold on Amazon. Thing with having salt in the tabs though, would that salt cause pitting if you washed sterling?

    @larsi -- do you find Somat10 superior to Finish Quantum?
    Also, larsi, I wanted to ask you a few ??s about your washing machine if I properly recall you have a Miele. I'm a new owner, still trying to figure it out.

    @catmom -- it would be interesting to see if you had better results with the Quantum -- just as a test since you seem devoted to the Miele tabs. I'm a fickle tab buyer though I did like the old Somats, just not their price.

  • whirlpool_trainee
    10 years ago

    Citric acid is better than vinegar as it's gentler and won't stink up your kitchen. Forget Tang.

    Somat 10 contains a water softening agent - not salt. In fact, it contains >30% phosphates. You can use it with your water softener and rinse aid turned either off or to the lowest setting. I am currently using an 11-in-1 powder and didn't change anything about the rinse aid and softener settings on my Bosch and it works perfectly.

    Somat 10 came out on top of the Finish products in a recent test by our consumer magazine. However, the Aldi powder was even better at a fraction of the cost.

    If Larsi can speak German and is willing to give me his email, I can give him some info on Somat.

    Alex

  • dadoes
    10 years ago

    There may be misunderstanding of the role that salt plays.

    It is not dispensed into the wash and rinse water ... the dishes are not washed/rinsed in salty water.

    The incoming water flow when the machine fills for washing and rinsing is run through the ion exchange resin bed where sodium ions are exchanged for the hard-water calcium ions ... thus softening the water, but not making it "salty" as such.

    The sodium ions get used up after a number of fills. The resin bed must be refreshed by flushing salt water through it during a regeneration process using the salt (sodium chloride) supply, then it's drained away.

    This is the same process that occurs in a whole-house water softener, the dishwasher does it on a much smaller scale.

  • fauguy
    10 years ago

    dadoes,

    That is correct is how it works. On my Miele Diamante, I have it set to 4-7 grains (since mine city water is 5 grains). Filling the bottom water softener with salt last a year, then the red led salt light comes on. About every 2 weeks when I turn the unit on and start a wash cycle, it will do a recharge cycle, as it fills and drains about 5 times before it starts to wash.

    To the rest,

    I just got in my order of Method Smart tabs from Amazon, since I only had a few left. It only took me about 10 minutes to cut all of them from six bags in-half for use. Maybe I'll give the Somat3 a try at some point, but it is more costly per load than the half Method tab. I don't understand why they don't sell them in the US.

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Might try the Quantum tabs roc, but don't they have bleach (or is that a different one? I get them mixed up at this point!).

    It's not so much wanting to use a different product. The product I have been using with great success all this time, and only a 1/2 a tab at that, just wasn't seeming to do the job as well lately (with no changes in usage or DW settings). Everything always came out clean and shiny, DW smelled fresh. no fragrance or chemical smell in the DW or on my dishes, glasses, etc. That's what made me wonder if there is or was something going on with the machine itself. If it was the product, and not the machine, I wouldn't have been getting great results all this time (5 yrs at least). Unless, there was a degradation of the tabs over time, as some of us are wondering....

    I looked up the lemi-shine usage instructions. How does one stop the DW once it is filled, so it doesn't drain, and stays filled to soak for 4 hrs, as required by the lemi-shine?

  • weissman
    10 years ago

    Quantum Finish tabs have oxygenated bleach (not chlorine bleach) and enzymes. They do a great job.

  • rococogurl
    10 years ago

    I trade off between the two tabs now. Figure Method is better for my septic. Quantum is better on the tough stuff. Yes, it does have bleach but I don't mind that occasionally since it removes coffee and tea stains. Also, I don't use it every night. Have even used 1/2 Quantum but it's a messy cut. Method cuts better for lighter loads.

    My logic: if there has been no change in usage or DW settings then I'd change up the tab. That will tell you if it's just old tabs that have lost their effectivness -- who even knows -- or some adjustment the DW needs. They age, like the rest of us.

    If you were to try a Quantum, and get uneven cleaning, then seems you have more info. But that's just my thinking.

  • whirlpool_trainee
    10 years ago

    Can you not turn the machine off to let it soak?

    This may come as a shock to some of you but, for what it's worth, I use two tablespoons (30 grams) per load in my frugal, water-softening Bosch. I do load it heavily, though.

  • Cavimum
    10 years ago

    " How does one stop the DW once it is filled, so it doesn't drain, and stays filled to soak for 4 hrs, as required by the lemi-shine? "

    If you add something (plate, glass, etc.) to the DW after a cycle has started, do you have to push a button to restart the DW? We have to push a button to restart on our Bosch, so I don't know about Miele. (Our last DW, a Kenmore Elite, simply closing the door restarted it)

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Next time I see you roc, bring a few Qiantum tabs for me to try! :)

    I don't have to press any buttons if I open the door to add a dish or whatever. I just close the door and the DW starts back up. Don't know if that would be the case if I open the door further into the wash cycle. According to the usage PDF on Lemi-Shine's site, you need to stop the DW and let it soak without draining for 4 hrs. So how is this this done?

  • whirlpool_trainee
    10 years ago

    Turn it off by its Power button.

  • whirlpool_trainee
    10 years ago

    @ Larsi

    I got your mail but it's not possible to respond to it when you send it via GardenWeb. I need your own address.

  • rococogurl
    10 years ago

    Will do catmom.

    Fauguy, so sorry to hear about the issues on your dw. Things seemed to be going well after you switched tabs. So smart of you to have that waranty!

    You can only now send/receive email through GW if you go into your profile and change a setting. They're "improved" things.

  • Cavimum
    10 years ago

    cat_mom - you only have to let the Lemi-Shine soak for 4 hours if you have heavy-duty build-up. On the label, the 4-hr soak is in finer print, as an alternate option. Otherwise, just put it into a regular or Sanitize cycle and go. That's what it says on my bottle of Lemi-Shine's label instructions.

    If the spray arms are clogged with mineral build-up, will they be submerged if left to soak? If not, seems like only the floor of the tub is soaking.

    Can the spray arms be removed easily? I know the Bosch ones can (I was surprised) because they have a youtube video on how to do it, and clean the holes. Perhaps Miele has something like this on youtube?

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks roc!!!! You're the best!

    Thanks W-T. That makes sense!

    Cavimum, I only saw the 4 hr soak instructions on the Usage PDF on their site. Haven't seen an actual bottle of it in person.

    Our DW had better not have heavy duty build-up--I know the built-in water softener doesn't do anything prior to the water entering the machine, so there could very well be some build-up on the spray arms/holes, but one would hope the softener would help cut down on some of that.

    I believe the spray arms can be removed for cleaning, will have to look into how to do that.

  • Cavimum
    10 years ago

    @cat_mom - I wonder if the quality of your water has changed lately. In the past few months, I can get away with using more detergent in our FL washer than I could six months ago, making me think ours is slightly harder right now. It might get soft again in the summer, we'll see. Our city water comes from a local river. Something to think about, and that might be all that is going on with your DW detergent dosing. Maybe your machine is fine.

  • fauguy
    10 years ago

    In case any of you are interested, I posted some pictures in the other thread of the rust spots on the under-side of the bottom rack and center rack. I would have never known they where there, except that I saw them when refilling salt in the water softener container. You guys may want to check your racks as well.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0417485229185.html?3

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Cavimum, I am sure that's possible, but we have the built-in water softener, and it is set to soften the water if the incoming water is 6 or higher. So, wouldn't the fluctuation in local water hardness be irrelevant?

  • whirlpool_trainee
    10 years ago

    Miele dishwashers mix softened and unsoftened water during the wash cycle. If you set the hardness to a certain value the machine will mix x liters of water that have run through its softener and y liters of untreated water for each fill to achieve a hardness of 4 degrees (IIRC) during certain stages of the cycle. If you set the hardness too low, more hard water will flow into the unit. That being said, even those non-phosphated detergents must be able to deal with some amount of water hardness.

    Search for Miele Perfect Glass Care on YouTube. There will be a video on mieleonline's channel explaining how the system works.

  • whirlpool_trainee
    10 years ago

    Here's the link

    Here is a link that might be useful: Perfect GlassCare in Miele Dishwashers

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Ran another 1/2 tab load last night. Everything clean. Ever since I ran the conditioner and then the vinegar through the machine, glassware has been coming out nice and clean. Flatware less consistently so, but better than it had been perhaps.

    I am more convinced that the spray arms might have become clogged to some degree over time, and the vinegar has helped dissolve at least some of the build-up. We will take apart what can/should be taken apart and clean those parts and then see if that makes even more of a difference. I have a call into Miele to find out about obtaining a valve filter (advisability of use, and how to purchase).

    Will continue to report back when we get a chance to clean the parts.

    Thanks for all the advice so far!

  • fauguy
    8 years ago

    So after using 1/2 of a Method Smarty Tab each wash for over 4 years, I decided to try the 7th Generation packs this week.


    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MY3A8YE


    So far they are cleaning just as good as the Method tabs.

  • rococogurl
    8 years ago

    Whole or half?

  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I don't remember if I'd originally posted this thread prior to Miele replacing some valve parts with degrading silicone/rubber seals (which allowed rinse Watertown trickle back into the DW). They also replaced the rinse aid assembly in and around then.

    In any event, I now run Miele DW conditioner through my machine a few times a year (I have it written down on my calendar as a reminder, twice up to three-four times/year). That seems to help. As well as remembering to clean the filter on occasion!

    i usually use half-tabs (Miele tabs), but I've taken to to running the DW every night, even with very small loads. For the small-small loads, I'll break the half tab down even further. Generally I'm finding that >1/4-1/2 tab is about as small a piece I can use if I want my glassware to come out clear and shiny. 1/4 tab or less and it's iffy.

  • rococogurl
    8 years ago

    It's always best to run it every night. Usually I do. No smells either.

  • fauguy
    8 years ago

    I always run mine every night and use the Pots & Pans mode, since it has the longest wash cycle (2 prewash, main wash, 2 interim rinse, final rinse with rinse aid). As some of you may know, when I got this unit 5 years ago, I used the Miele tabs (half) for about 8 months. Then the newer Miele tabs came out around the end of 2010/2011 were phosphate free, which created a lot of suds in the bottom of the unit and didn't seem to clean as well.

    That was when I started to try a few other brands, and ended up liking the Method Smarty Tabs best, as they cleaned well and didn't have any chemical smells, though the Quantum tabs with the red ball were the best cleaning, I couldn't get past the chemical smell they produced.


    The Seventh Generation that I got this week from Amazon are packs, not tabs, so you don't break them in half. Just stick one pack in the detergent door.


    I have noticed some white residue on the inside stainless of the Miele, but since I'm not sure if this if from the Seventh Generation or the Method tabs, I ran the unit today with the Miele dishwashing cleaner, since it hasn't been done in about 3 months. The one used is the liquid cleaner from Miele, that I would just open the detergent door and pour the liquid in there. But the newer Miele cleaner I ordered last month comes in a round plastic cylinder. When you open it up, it is like a hard substance that I guess should dissolve in the water. I'm not sure why Miele changed from using a liquid cleaner to this solid dissolving type. I haven't tried the new one yet.


  • cat_mom
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I have a container of the reformulated version, too, but haven't used it yet either. I had asked someone I know at Miele about it some months ago, but forgot the reason he had told me (why they switched). I'm due to run it thru the DW this month, so I'll try to remember how it seems to do.

  • rococogurl
    8 years ago

    I've only used the DW cleaner once since mine has been ok so far -- knock wood. But I used the Somat cleaner from the persilstore as I order Pril from there. It did an excellent job and left the DW looking new. It was very impressive.

  • fauguy
    8 years ago

    The thing I liked about the liquid Miele cleaner was I could get 4-5 uses from a single bottle just by filling the dispenser door, and could take some of the liquid on a paper towel and "wipe down" the inside of the stainless.


    Now with the new solid formula, it looks like they want you to use the entire container, unless maybe I could take a spoon and dig out some and put it in the dispenser to get more than one use. Or just find another brand that is still a liquid. Could also call the Miele store up in Boca to see if they still have any left.


    But since using the liquid Miele cleaner yesterday, I have to run the unit tonight using the new 7th Generation wash packs, and see if it leaves any residue on the inside of the unit.

  • fauguy
    8 years ago

    Since using the Miele liquid dishwasher cleaner 2 days ago, and got rid of the white residue on the inside of the unit, I have done two loads using the Seventh Generation wash packs. So far everything has been coming out clean (as clean as using Method tabs) and there hasn't been any white film on the inside of the unit. I'll keep checking to see if it happens. But at this point I like using the 7th Gen packs just fine, as you don't have to mess with cutting in half.

  • fauguy
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    After using the 7th Generation dishwasher packs for a week, there is no white residue in the diswasher, and the stainless still looks nice. But I have started to notice a bit of a smell on the plastic cups that I use for drinking water. At first I thought that maybe there was an issue with the water or fridge filter, but it turns out the smell is coming from the plastic cups that were washer with the 7th Gen packs. So I'm going to wash tonight using Method and/or Miele tab i still had a few of and see if that will get rid of it. Hopefully it does. But if these 7th Gens are causing this, then I'll be sending with back and keep using the Method that I've been using for the past four years.

  • Compumom
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Following. I just purchased another Miele today. My 2002 Miele is having trouble pumping water out and restarting over and over isn't in my game plan. You may have noticed from other posts that I was debating whether I wanted another Miele. After careful consideration, I decided that another MIELE was the way to go. Especially since they're offering a free 5 yr extended warranty through Nov. 30th.

    Since someone here recommended the MIELE tabs, I've used 1/2 tab. Previously I used 1 tablespoon of Cascade powder (old formula). Early on a MIELE service tech told me not to believe the suggested amount of detergent and 1 tablespoon was appropriate.

    I have never had a problem with cleaning nor had any build up on the walls of the machine. I hope that the new MIELE concierge service will install the machine properly and get my salt levels correct. It's my assumption that the initial machine installers were poorly trained and never set things up correctly.

    My MIELE tabs are cut and stored in an open box under the kitchen sink. I have never had an issue with dampness or diminished cleaning ability.

  • fauguy
    8 years ago

    If you check out my posts from 4-5 years ago (if they are still on here) I was using the original Miele tabs (half) for about the first 8-10 months when I purchased my unit in April 2010. But then their tab formula changed and the unit was creating a lot of suds when using them. The tech said to cut them even smaller or crumble them up into a powder, which is what I did. After a while I got tired of that and tried out some other brand tabs. I ended up liking the Method Smarty best since it cleaned well and has no odor or chemical smell. But after dealing with having to cut the Method tabs for 4 years, that's when I decided to try the 7th Generation. But with the smell they are leaving on the plastic cups, I'll have to return them.

    I see there is a review on Amazon from Jan 2015 on the Miele tabs that someone else has posted a picture that they are also getting suds when using it.


    So you may want to check your unit about 30-40 min into the wash cycle and see if it is sudsing.

  • rococogurl
    8 years ago

    Which model compumom? And pix, please when it's installed?

  • Jan Russak
    8 years ago

    The Miele techs who installed my brand new DW told me to use Cascade powder. They never even mentioned Miele's own detergent. For what it's worth.

  • fauguy
    8 years ago

    I contacted Amazon about returning the 7th Generation dishwasher packs, but they said they do not want them back, and just did a credit. I ordered the Method Smarty tabs that I've been using for 4 years and got them in yesterday. The first thing I do it use a pair of kitchen scissors and cut them in half. I opened the first bag, and could hardly get them to cut. There were a few that would not cut at all using the scissors. I looked at them closely and can see the Method tabs that I just got in are much harder (like a stone) than the ones I've been getting before. They also have a smoother texture to them. So I'm not sure if Method changed their formula, or manufacturing process, but I've never had this difficult of a time cutting them. I usually cut all 6 bags, but after doing 2 my hand was hurting and had to stop. The few tabs that would not cut, I used a knife by stab in them down the center.