Return to the Appliances Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Miele sound ratings?

Posted by cj47 (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 18, 10 at 0:54

Hi,
I know I saw a post awhile back that translated the Q1, Q2 etc. sound ratings that Miele assigns to it's dishwashers into decibels. I can't seem to find that post despite having searched every way I can think of. Has anyone saved or bookmarked this information? And if not, does anyone know those Q ratings translate into decibels?

Thanks in advance!!
Cj


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Use the precise model code - eg totally integrated optima = G2472SCVI - then check on the miele british website

Just be aware that in europe we have more non-tall tubs G1XXX rather than tall tubs G2XXX, so you can also check the non-tall tub equivalent model


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Thanks much Hidroman! I will do that.

I also found this elsewhere on the web:

Here are the dba levels for Miele.
Q1 (Inspira) around 55 dBa
Q2 (Diamente Plus) around 50 dBa
Q3 (Optima) around 44-45 dBa
Q4 (Excella) around 40-41 dBa
Q5 (LaPerle) around 39-40 dBa

Don't know if it's accurate, but I thought I'd post in case someone else wanted to know.

Thanks again, Hidroman.
Cj


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Inspira is just 48 dbA, not 55 :
Inspira G1182SCVI

Diamante plus G2143SCI 46 dbA

Optima is right G2225SCI 44 dbA - note G2225 is a lower model than Optimas G24XX

I guess that both Excella and La Perla are both rated 41 dbA cause the G2584SCVI is a model between Optima and Excella and is rated 42dbA, while the latest La Perla G2874SCVI is 41 dbA

The funny thing is that :
while in North America the cold fill option is considered a remarkable feature, in Europe Miele pushes to the hot fill in case of gas/solar water heater : ThermoSpar . They claim a electrical comsumption reduced by 40% in case of a 140F hot fill. As our gas rates are cheaper than electric, in our household we have ever done it,whatever brand of DW.

We really should learn by you to use the hot fill where it's worth to


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Please note that dB is a relative scale, with reference to a starting point.
Thus, dBa / DBa / dBA / DBA all mean with "A" as the starting point.
"A" is then a reference point, from which 30, 40 , and 50 deciBels mean 3, 4, and 5 times the power produced.

"A" is not an industry standard.
"A" is a private company selected reference noise.
They can choose any noise and then say that e.g. one dishwasher is 46 dBA and another is 54 dBA,
with respect to that reference noise which they chose and which they keep private.

So, take it all with a grain of salt or two.
It is accurate when comparing two machines of the same manufacturer.
It is not useful when comparing machines to your own sense of what noise is acceptable.
It is not useful when comparing machines from different manufacturers, as they all may and do use different "A" noise. They all know this and they don't complain about other manufacturers' use of this unknown "A", because they don't what objective standards to be applied across the industry.

-- just in case you wanted to know how to use these decibel ratings.
They are valid when comparing a single manufacturer's machines to each other.
--


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Wow, Davidro1, that's interesting. I had no idea that these measurements were so subjective. Thanks!


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

davidro1, do you have any sources for that one? Some of my professors would likely have some differing views on how decibels work.


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

The manufacturers don't state how the measurements were taken either...3 feet away or 30 feet away from the DW, at what point in the cycle, with what type of sound meter, etc. It's like comparing apples to oranges.


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

I can tell you this much. I have a KA KUDE70 with a 41db rating and it is inaudibe when running. The only thing you here is the water draining in the sink. The installer had to open the door to confirm it was working as he could not hear the motor or water running.


 o
sound ratings in DW : IEC code

 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

All miele dw's are quiet enough for all bu the most compulsive appliance sound freaks.

cold water fill on the miele's is favored mostly by those that have a china/crystal setting so that the incoming water is not hotter than the programmed wash and dry temps. This is better for the glass ware. Re: the energy debate, anyone that is buying a $1500-$2000 dishwasher and is concerned about a few bucks difference of energy usage a year has some wacky priorities. These things just don't cost that much to run a year whether you have solar, gas, coal, hydro or nuclear based power.

Really want to save $$$ and use less energy?? Invest in a more efficient building envelope, more efficient lighting and HVAC systems. These consume/waste more energy than the piggiest DW out there.


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Antss, what you wrote about cold fill and "china/crystal" is true when the water heater is very close to the DW (my case : have a mixer) or with stoneage mieles that use 3 gallons per fill. Current mieles use less than a gallon per fill. Unless you purge the hot water line before starting "china/glass" the water enters the machine less than warm. As a clue go figure the "energy saver" cycle (called "without heater" in Europe - only on Excella and LaPerla) runs two prewashes to raise tub and load temperature

Anyway noise perception is also matter of sound frequencies
My aunt has this very model of AEG dishwasher
that is even quieter than contemporary (1996/98) Mieles, so some year later we bought an AEG too.
3 years ago also my brother bought the TOL AEG model, but despite it was rated 42db(A)/28 db it makes an unpleasant buzz as if it were an electric shaver, while Mieles rated 42db are silent like a fridge. Last year my AEG had the pump replaced.

The new pump makes the very same buzzzzzz. Electrolux Europe closed AEG plants in 2006/7, guess latest pumps are no more original AEG ones. Not a case latest AEG and Zanussi appliances share several parts. This way they save both on storage parts (no more different spares for different brands) but also -unfortunately- on build quality.

For sure today AEG DW are no more almost comparable to Mieles as they were once.

Also when I open those basic Bosch models with a plastic sump matched to stainless steel walls and ceiling
I'm afraid they are no more the machines they used to be

This "Miele thing" seems boring, otherwise there are no more options since in the last 5/6 years many appliance manufacturers dropped quality down


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Hi
Just had my Miele DW re-installed (kitchen reno) and it seems noisier than before.
It is now between a 15 cabinet and a sink cabinet. Previously it was between a stove and a sink cabinet.
Any suggestions what I should look for to rectify?
TIA


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

OK, I know I don't know much of anything about DW's, but decibels I've got covered.

The decibel is based on a logarithmic scale that compares the ratio of two measurements. So, if X is 30dB greater than Y, that means it is 1000 times (10 to the 3rd power) as large as Y. So, dB, in and of itself is not an absolute measurement, but a relative one.

However, there are uses of dB where it does represent an absolute measurement. A reference level is chosen and then the rating in dB is given as 10 times the log (base 10) of the ratio of the output of the unit under test to the reference value. Decibels can be expressed as negative numbers. If a rating is given as -30dB, then it is one thousandth the size of the reference.

In terms of acoustics, there is dB(SPL) where SPL stands for Sound Pressure Level. In this case, the reference for air is 20 micropascal which is taken to be the quietest sound a human can hear. So dB(SPL) is an absolute measurement referenced against 20 micropascal. There is a bit of complication because the human ear has a different response to a given SPL depending on the frequency. This is where dB(A) comes in. We're still talking an absolute measurement because it is based on a 20 micropascal SPL, but it is weighted by the "A" curve based on frequency.

Well, that's about as far as I would care to go because I do agree that if various machines are NOT measured using the exact same techniques in the exact same testing environment, etc., then comparisons are problematic.

However, assuming that a given manufacturer applies the same test across their product line, one can say that the lower the db(A) rating, the quieter the machine. But, keep in mind that dB is a logarithmic measurement, so, using hidroman's numbers, the DW rated at 44 dB(A) is about twice as loud as the one rated at 41 dB(A).

HTH - Jo Ann


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

thanks Jo Ann,
that's makes a lot of sense ... maybe you can also suggest some tips to Swspitfire : IMHO this may be a case of resonance. Usually a cork foil glued in the proper place inside the adiacent cabinets will solve the issue. One has "just" to know **where** is the proper place. IIRC dimensions are involved, expecially if one of them is a multiple of the soundwave lenght (hope this is not a true bull#### ...)

Swspitfire, start checking all the screws. They have to be very tight, otherwise even a single loose screw may allow a cabinet timber wall to vibrate.

As for the original question, the latest Excella G 5835 SCi XXL and and the latest La Perla G 5935 SCi XXL
are both rated 41 dB (A) but also have a 38 dB (A) extra quiet cycle

Actually I find this cycle a bit paranoic, cause 41 dB (A) is somewhat just a whisper .....

Here is a link that might be useful: what's resonance


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Well, I'm an EE so I'm not going to venture too far into the realm of mechanical resonance, but that could very well be the problem. Previously, the the DW was between a sink which could be pretty rigid depending on the type and a stove. If by stove, a range is meant, then I would assume that is a pretty good damper for vibration. Now, there is a 15" cabinet rather than a stove, so the cabinet may be a mechanical resonator. It wouldn't hurt to tighten the screws and/or try some damping material. Try some cheap materials taped in place & go for a more permanent & elegant solution if the quick & dirty helps.

OK, I'm done speculating. In my field, I know the noise limits I have to be below in order to field my HW. I call in the acoustics experts to make the measurements & if there are exceedances, I give it to the mechanical experts on my team to solve. Most of the time, I'm not building anything that is an intentional noise generator, so its not my problem. ;^)

Jo Ann


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Correct:
30dB greater than Y means it is (10 to the 3rd power) greater = 1000 times greater.
20dB greater than Y means it is (10 to the 2nd power) greater = 100 times greater.
10dB greater than Y means it is (10 to the power of 1) greater = 10 times greater.

In a post above I wrote it wrong. March 18.


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

We had an Electrolux unit 2 years ago that had a rating of 41/42dB and it was much quieter than the GE unit we had before it (I think it was like 54dB). Now last week we had a Diamante G2143SC installed (Q2 rating), and to me it sounds quieter than the Electrolux. We heard the Optima (Q3) in the showroom a few weeks earlier, and it was almost the same sound level as the Diamante, just a very small difference if you were standing right next to it, but step about 6 feet back and you can't tell the difference.

What I find interesting is that the different European Miele sites have the dB listed for each model, but in the US they use this "Q" rating, which to me means nothing. Maybe it would be better if they just used Sone for rating the sound level?


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

I have been looking at the DW and it appears to have some "extra" space above (between the bottom of the countertop and the DW). Also there is "extra" space on the left side.
I will talk to the gc (when ever he comes back) because I think those hollow spaces are the problem.......


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

Miele lists its dishwasher (2014) Futura Classic 4225 at "Q1", its Crystal 5225 at "Q2". But Miele's detail on each (Miele's own website) lists dba as the same, 46. Can anyone explain/comment, especially if you own one of these models or a recent predecessor? Many thanks.


 o
RE: Miele sound ratings?

I have the Miele Crystal Q2 running now, but not fully installed in a cabinet or under counters. I am very pleased with how quiet it is. I had an older Miele which was rated as Q1, and it was a speck louder but not by much.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Appliances Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here