Hiya,

Double ovens are nice if more than one person is cooking... i.e cooktop/rangetop for one person and another person who is operating the oven does not have to be in their way during high volume cooking (holidays and special occasions).

Having said that in home this rarely happens so i am assuming people get wall ovens a bit for the two cook in the family and some for the wow factor.

We are personally getting wallovens (dual 30" KA) and a rangetop.

If you are the only one i would say get a range 36" all gas and call it a day. Cost wise they almost end up being same. Look into the blustar and capital culinarian ranges and/or rangetops.

Capital seems to be an all star here.

Also if you are getting gas with anything above 4 burners don't use a MW range venting system... they don't have enough suction to work well. I would go with a dedicated venting of some sort, this will depend on what you pick for your rangetop or range.

Rule of thumb is total btus/100 = x cfm. Again you wont be using all burners at the same time all the time but this will ensure proper and efficient smoke/grease removal.

I have the Electrolux Icon double wall oven with a Viking 36 inch rangetop and couldn't be more pleased. I also looked at 36 inch ranges and felt the large oven wouldn't be practical for weeknight meals and would take too long to preheat.

I have not had trouble thus far with my wall ovens; however, I do know many people who have multiple issues with their Kitchenaid wall ovens. I would avoid Whirpool at all costs....

jmith, thank you! I do want 5 or possibly 6 burners--I've lived with an inadequate 4 for too long--and I didn't know that the MW venting would be insufficient. I guess that means I will have to give up cabinet space for an undercabinet hood and vent to the outside? I was trying to avoid that, although there is an exterior wall on the other side.

I am the primary cook, but I forgot to mention that we entertain a great deal. I want two ovens so I can cook things at different temperatures. Last year we had 16 at Thanksgiving dinner, and I had to go buy a triple crockpot server to keep the sides warm after cooking them one at a time in my small oven. We have frequent weekend parties and I'd like to bake one appetizer at 375 and another at 450, at the same time!

I have seen threads here about the Blustar and Capital, will go read them. My total kitchen budget is 50k for EVERYTHING...cabinets, labor, granite, appliances, backsplash tile. I think the cabinets will run about 20k, so I basically have 10k or so for appliances, with the rest going for the labor (we are having one wall torn out) and granite etc. We are replacing all the appliances, even the fridge we bought. So, sink, cooktop/range, cabinet-depth fridge, MW, DW, wine fridge. Ack. I may have to jiggle the cabinet numbers a bit. We live in a large tract-type house, so I can't get really high-end appliances as they just wouldn't FIT with the house--or my budget. DH wanted a built-in fridge--lol. Cabinet-depth is fine.

Mikern, thank you. I did read a thread discussing the Elux Icon vs non-Icon. Glad to hear that you are happy with yours! Thank you for advice re KA and Whirlpool. H'mmm, Great Indoors has the Viking DGSU16-05BSS on sale for $1627. And the saleslady said I could vent it with a 36" MW. But she's trying to sell me something, and jmith is not :-)

I don't know why an undercabinet hood would take up more space than an undercabinet microwave.

If it were me, I'd go for the gas cooktop with drawers underneath and a separate double wall oven. I hear bad things about KitchenAid ovens but there are others out there worth looking at.

I think $10k will be low unless you are careful and willing to compromise on some things. I can easily see spending $5k on the fridge and oven alone.

Weedmeister, thank you. You're correct, it's about the same amount of space. I was looking at a Broan hood on overstock.com. But there's not only the additional cost of the hood PLUS a MW, there's the question of where to put the MW if it isn't over the cooktop. DH and I are tall, but the MW needs to be somewhere that the kids can reach it.

I know...the fridge I am looking at--GE Monogram ZFSBD5DXSS--is $3825, although that was at Great Indoors, haven't looked online yet. I think I may end up buying online with free shipping and no tax to save money.

I am waiting for the designs from the KD, then I can bid the cabinets. I was looking at Costco, but may have to go semi-custom or custom due to weird, awkward configuration of kitchen. DH did say he would pay for the fridge (I am paying for the rest, so hope he remembers that the fridge is HIS responsibility!)

The Kenmore Pro double wall oven is on sale for $2414, but reviews are very mixed and I didn't see much on here. I like the Bosch 800 series, but think people have reported problems??

Aieeeee!

If you are completely changing you kitchen around, now is the time to rethink. I highly recommend Don Silvers, Kitchen Design With Cooking in Mind. Somebody on this forum recommended it to me. Amazon has it too, used.
One idea I got was to have the microwave closer to the frig. It is out of your way for people/kids to reheat if you are cooking. That may or may not apply to your kitchen, but he has some great ideas.

As far as the range vs 2 wall ovens, it is just preference. The advantage would be for rangetop and 2 wall ovens could be-
You could pick a rangetop with open burners and still have electric ovens and possibly the cooking modes they provide.
I have a 30" Electrolux oven and 36" range and the 30" oven heats a lot quicker than the 36" oven.
I have had both the 36" and the 30" inch oven filled up though. I don't know what I did before I had 2 ovens.
2 wall ovens are easier on your back.
If you have an all gas range, some ranges have the infrared broiler.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Design With Cooking in Mind

summerbabies,

I think you have gotten a lot of good info here.

One thing i will add is about venting.

Any venting is better than no venting. We usually vent so the house does not smell of whatever you cooked for 2 days. A powerful vent (the formula i used in my first post) is a good starter. Always look for cfms. If you are getting a 6 burner with no wok cooking and no grill then the vent doesn't have to be totalbtus/100 you can give or take some cfms.

If e.g you were buying a Capital rangetop then 6x23k = 138k = 1380cfm but i think you can get away with 900-1200 cfm range.

As for KA Double ovens and or any other double ovens using self cleaning will lower its life i mean they are all made out of metal and not lead or titanium when you run self clean oven will hit 900-1100 degrees and its a bit too much. The KAs i read here almost all fail after a self clean cycle used once or twice. I personally do not use self clean and will not use so it's something to consider.

Electrolux i have read seem to be good at ovens and even after self clean they do not "burn out" a fuse.

SO if matching the appliance is not a priority then it would be hard to get one manuf to do all appliances.

e.g miele and ka seem to be well liked here for dishwashers.
electrolux for wall ovens
blustar and capital for ranges
kitchenaid for fridges

then you have higher end wall ovens and fridges that people like.

I have read mixed reviews and issues for electrolux fridges here ... some complaints about previous blustar models.

I think you should decide in terms of what you want and then if all appliances should be same brand or not, and go from there its a messy thing to pick out appliances for kitchen.

It's not like a commercial kitchen where functionality is more important than looks and/or resale value.

We just installed something close to one of your options: a Kenmore elite double wall oven (both ovens have dual-fan convection) and a Bosch 5-burner 800 series gas cook top. We love both. I did ask our GC and electrician about the heat issue with double ovens. Apparently the problems arise when the cabinetry surrounding the ovens doesn't allow for sufficient ventilation. The new Kenmore elite model we bought have very strong fans that are designed to keep the units cool. The Bosch cook top is also wonderful and I particularly appreciate the pots and pans drawers just beneath it that I couldn't have fit in if I had gone with a range.

Last thing: we didn't have space for a warming drawer, but the second wall oven makes a good one when you don't need to use it for cooking.

I think $10K is extremely optimistic for appliances if you want wall ovens. If you want a 36" range or cooktop that requires 900-1200cfm venting, you should also check whether make-up air is required in your jurisdiction.

I had to install heated make-up air for my 600cfm system, which alone was about $9K.

Wekick, thank you! I have a huge stack of kitchen books from the library and books I bought used :-) I haven't heard of that one, so will look for it. H'mmm...easier on the back...a definite plus for wall ovens! And another vote for Electrolux :-)

Sue, I did think of putting an oven in the island. Have to think about it some more. The current downdraft cooktop is going away, so if I don't do double wall, it's an option. I haven't quite figured out what I want to do with the island aside from adding extra seating, changing the shape, adding storage, and banishing the cooktop.

jmith, I will have to do some research and talk to the contractor. Thank you for all the helpful information!

Oh, no, I will NEVER use self-clean. No way, no how. I never liked the concept--and Easy-Off smells MUCH better these days--and last year a friend of mine woke up in her condo after smelling smoke. She had set her brand-new oven on self-clean and went to bed--it caught fire. I don't know what brand it was. Luckily, she escaped, only the oven was totaled, but she had smoke damage on the cabinets.

No, all I care about is that they are all stainless steel and that they are all RELIABLE. I have suffered enough with these garbage-y appliances for the past nine years.

I'm thinking KA KUDE70 DW--expensive, but apparently very well liked--and starting to lean heavily towards the Electrolux wall ovens. My mother has a Miele DW and it has frequent problems :-( Will look at BluStar and Capital, thank you. Liked the GE Monogram 25 cu ft cabinet-depth, but cannot find pricing online--Plesser said they couldn't deliver to CO--but Great Indoors saleslady--she of the MW venting fame--said GE doesn't allow discounts of more than 15% for the Monogram line?

I want functionality and good looks :-)Not just skin-deep beauty :-)

MCMesprit, is your Kenmore Elite the one Consumer Reports recommended? I don't think I've seen the Bosch 800 cooktop, just the fridge, DW, and wall ovens. I will go look it up, thank you! Have heard unhappy stories about Bosch DWs, alas.

Cooksnsews, DH is paying for the fridge and possibly the wine fridge, too. I'm thinking "Make-up air"? What new horror is this?? I will have to ask the contractor. I can feel my hair greying! $9K...ugh! What an unpleasant surprise for you :-(

KUDE70 and KUDE60 are identical units except for kude70 seems to be quieter. If quietness is important then do the kude70 otherwise stick with kude60... kude60 also has a HX model which has a nice pull handle. KUDE60HX.

Basically if you have anything above 900-1000 you need an air makeup unit so you don't have a negative pressure inside your home. I think you should be ok with Good luck.

Summerbabies--a few quick thoughts.

1. Undercounter ovens are very low to the ground, even lower than range ovens I looked at. The ergonomics of wall ovens is better.

2. If you want two ovens (I do too), two single ovens cost significantly more than a double unit.

3. If you opt for a cooktop instead of a rangetop, consider the Wolf cooktopp. Price for a 36" is just less than $2K. The burners are double stacked which means they can go up very high and down very low to a true simmer. I was going to go with this one until I researched more about the Capital Culinarian rangetop. I'm sold and can't wait to cook on mine!! I'm planning the 30" non-Icon Elux ovens.

4. I assume you've found the ajmadison dot com website? Good place for appliance research and general pricing. You won't see GE Monogram prices listed. They are, oh I forget the term, price controlled somehow. Pricing is essentially the same no matter where you buy and prices aren't advertised much.

5. Don't do the OTR MW for venting as others have warned. I hated mine. Venting was horrible. Glad it's torn out now! Can you do a cheapie MW on a shelf where an upper cab would be? Not convenient for the kids though. I wouldn't do a MW on a shelf undercounter, but I know some people do it. I'd hate to bend over to put items in, set controls, and take items out. I hate to suggest a MW drawer (recommend a Sharp) because of the cost, but that's what I'm doing. It'll be located near the fridge for reheating. I seem to do a lot of that for the kids.

6. I assume you know about the Kitchen Forum. Someone might be able to suggest a great spot for the MW if you post your floor plan. Forgive me if you've already done this.

7. Make up air seems to be required more and more any time you have a hood with 400cfms or more. That's the code in my area. I freaked out when I found out as I think that 400cfms isn't adequate for most gas cooktops/range tops. My ex-contractor told me that the code has never been enforced where I am and that my house isn't tight enough to worry about it. I AM worried about it, but will proceed with a vent selection powerful enough to take care of my new CC and pretend like I've never heard of MUA. Most people haven't!

7. That's quite a fridge budget! You can get a good counter-depth one for much less. KAs are good. Then you can afford a MW drawer! ;)

jmith, thank you AGAIN! I really appreciate your posts :-) Uh...where does the air make-up unit go??

Breezygirl, wow, thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned post!

Yes, upon reflection, an underccounter oven would not be good for my back. I was thinking that maybe I would only use the second oven for parties and holidays, but sometimes we have friends over every weekend.

Good point about the cost of separate ovens. I do like the look of double ovens, too. Especially the Bosch 800 series and the Kenmore Pro, but it is very hard to find anything on them...few mixed reviews online. I will ask on this forum. And do some research on Electrolux as well, since they seem to be popular here.

I saw the Wolf cooktop at Great Indoors. My mother has a Wolf range, but she hates to cook. Lol. OK, will also look for the Capital. Hadn't heard of it until this forum.

Yes, found ajmadison and HomeEverything. HomeEverything has slightly better prices, and usually free shipping. Yes, you're right, I couldn't find a published price on the GE Monogram counter-depth anywhere. I have to call or email each site to get the price, and from what you and the GI saleslady said, there probably won't be much difference except for no tax if I buy online.

I have accepted that I can't vent with an OTR MW. I will have to spring for an undercabinet hood. Bleah. $1400. Ugh.
Loss of cabinet space. Boo. I am thinking that, since I was planning for stacked 42" + !2" or 36" + 18", I will have to mount the MW under a cabinet...h'mmm...maybe I will have to do a mullion door on a 36" or 42", since the 12" or 18" are supposed to be mullion? Thought briefly about putting MW in island, but kids are 6 and 10 and tall, too.

LOVE the Kitchens forum. Haven't posted my floor plan yet, trying to get up the courage to post pics of my truly UGLY kitchen. It doesn't look as bad or difficult on the floor plan as it does in the pictures

Will check with contractor. Presumably he is up on all this stuff. Never heard of MUA until cooksnsews mentioned it!

The GE Monogram ZFSB25DXSS is currently $3825 @ Great Indoors, on sale. I liked it bc it is 25 cu ft and well-planned inside. It looks.like close to the same amount of space that we have in our KA Superba, which we bought 9 years ago and has never given us a problem. I will look at KA fridges, thank you! I need the MW drawer money for the undercabinet hood. Boo. But the fridge isn't in my appliance budget, anyway. Lol.