I don't think there's an easy way to deal with Miele service. If you can get your dealer to help you, that would be great, although I'm not sure that Miele treats their dealers much better than their customers. Keep calling Miele technical support until they're sick of you. Send them an Email request for service every day. See if you can find the names of "authorized" Miele service people in your area and contact them directly. Your dealer should have a list.

You'll just have to be persistent and not give yourself a concussion from beating your head against the wall. Miele just plain doesn't care and their system is not designed to help customers with problems. Make sure you document every phone call, case number, whom you spoke to, etc, and make sure to ask what the next step would be if the problem isn't fixed on your first service visit.

I will say that the oven did take some getting used to - both the convection and the surround settings. Never use just the standard bake funciton - honestly I don't know why they even have it as a choice. The people on this board were the most helpful in explaining what settings to use with which food items.

baver -- it's not possible to email you. please send me an email.

Sent, rococogurl.

I've had nothing but excellent service from Miele and Luwa, their service representatives up here in the Pacific Northwest. The usual procedure is to try trouble-shooting over the phone. If they can't resolve the problem that way, the Customer Service technician decides what part will most likely be needed to remedy the problem and it's dispatched via FedEx to Luwa so they'll have the part in hand on their first visit. Luwa calls (usually the same day) and schedules the service appointment for a convenient time after the part is scheduled to arrive. Usually within 2 or 3 days.

I have a kitchen and laundry room full of Miele appliances. Miele has never been anything but extremely helpful when I've called their Customer Service department, either for a problem, or just with a question.

This is absolute crap !

An oven may have a temp swing of 20 degrees like when the door is opened, but an oven that is supposed to be at 300 and is really at 280 is pretty useless.

Also, ask them if if their temp probe is off by 20 degrees and under cooks a pork roast by 20deg. and someone gets sick and possibly dies, would this be "that bad"

What "region" are you guy in that is peddling this load of horse pucky?

Gary

Baver, I really, really, really wanted this DW to work. I am so disappointed. And I dread shopping for a new DW again.

One thing I learned while going through the DW repair routine is that all the Miele service literature and computer diagnostics use Centrigrade measures, and the Miele techs don't really understand it and can't convert the numbers to Fahrenheit. I think that's one reason the first Miele tech set my water temp too high and the second Miele tech couldn't figure it out. You may be seeing some of the same communication issues regarding your oven.

Gary

PS, You could be right, Maybe He thought that was a "Duckie Post"?

Gary

Apparently the Miele ovens are so over-engineered, they CANNOT be recalibrated, even by Miele.

Back to the original poster's thread: It's not acceptable obviously to be 20 degrees out of whack. I can't believe the bad experience some of you have had with Miele. It's really not acceptable on such an expensive product.
I've had great luck with Miele up here in Canada and so have my friends (there was another Canadian in this forum who had a bad experience I saw)...

I don't know this oven at all as I have an electrolux like I said but is it possible what they are saying is true? Perhaps for some methods they cook based on a recipe? I know my electrolux offsets the temperature when putting it in convection that kind of makes it strange...

Gary

I don't have wi-fi internet, so my Miele fridge can freezer can't phone home. They can only talk to the stereo.

My last ditch suggestion on these things is to go airhead. "But, Sir, it just doesn't work. You have to send someone to fix it! I don't know about codes but my cake is all soupy." It's dumb, but sometimes fighting dumb with dumb is smart.

2. Suggest sending a registered letter to Nick Ord in Princeton spelling out your dilemma and his reg. mgr's. less than stellar performance. Ask him if this is the high quality product and customer care Miele is known for?

3. Send copies to Messrs. Miele and Zinkann in Germany (Gütersloh) and ask them if this is "immer besser"? Also ask if their personal ovens are off by 20 degrees and if so, do they really think that they are getting good value for the money they pay their engineers?

This will get you attention - especially the German angle and will not only help you but will start to pressure the U.S. operation to hold people accountable.

(Sorry. Had to go to the smart answer since I felt so bad about the playing dumb one.)

Gary

Gary...my old KA cleaned the dishes fine but was impossibly noisy in this open-concept home.

Fridge - Miele won't refund the install charge mainly because they didn't install it so that money was never on their books. I'm not sure on the warranty.

Service tomorrow (confirmed), update to follow.

Our Miele tech said when pre-heating, to set the oven on "intensive bake" and then after it reaches desired temp, reset it to desired program. We don't always do that but it takes less time for the oven to heat up when preheated with the intensive bake setting.

I don't know if this could be part of anyone's problem with temperature on the Masterchefs, but I would check to make sure they have indeed been adjusted to US current!

Gary

I have never been so thrilled to hear those words. I am actually happy, the anger can wait. Apparently, the part that regulates the temperature is not functioning properly. SHOCKING, eh? They will call back in a couple days when they have what they think is the appropriate part and come back out. The tech really did seem surprised, as he said there is such a low failure rate on the ovens. (Or, is it that people can't get the technicians out, because the customer is basically being told that they are stupid and don't know how to use such an advanced piece of technology?) Ok, I am getting angry again.

Anyway, the technician was very polite and very professional, and for that, I am grateful. But all of the unneccesary time, energy, and hostility that it has taken to get to this point is totally unacceptable.

I will continue to post updates until the situation is resolved.

No s#$t !

What does the tech support mgr and the western reg. manager have to say about this new revelation?

I think a followup to your last letters or maybe just when you hear back from Germany you should tell this tale about how middle management : 1. Doesn't seem to know squat about their own product. 2. If they do, isn't following general high line appliance customer service protocol and is trying to "handle" you. 3. Maybe is on secret orders from on high that this bleeding on the balance sheet (service) has got to stop, in which case we all will benefit from knowing and start to avoid Miele.

I think the default for the ovens in USA is 208v which is two legs of three phase power commonly found in highrise buildings that have elevators.

Gary

Besides the actual service-related issues, my Miele tech bad-mouthed Miele's technical support dept and the design of the DW itself. While he may have been right, he shouldn't be saying that stuff to a customer with an appliance problem. Very unimpressive performance all the way around.

We've been fortunate to have worked with Miele's own tech representatives, and have nothing but high praise for the ones we've had come to our residence. Miele's Customer Support in New Jersey, now thatÕs a different matter...nothing but a major PITA.

Was your Miele tech under the employ of Miele or a third-party that Miele had service your unit recommended by Miele?

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a great deal of badmouthing with very little resolve regarding your actual issue. May I ask what your issue is with your dishwasher?

Believe me, I have no love for Miele's customer service departmentÑthey suck. However, I do like their service techs. But I have to be fair here as I think ASKO's customer service sucks too.

I showed my etched glasses to the last service tech, and he managed to adjust my DW so it started etching the dishes as well. These dishes have been through many, many cycles in a dozen different DW's over the years, and this is the first time I've ever had this problem.

I also know about the lame service calls -- 2 useless repair guys as you describe -- the first one didn't even put the panel back on properly and fixed nothing. The second one told me that there was "just something about" certain houses and appliances didn't work in them. Fixed nothing.

But it really takes a lot to etch glaze off commercially manufactured dishes. That would be some weird water to do that all by itself.

Has anyone asked you which dw detergent you use? Which rinse aid?

The not cleaning reports here in the past have sometimes changed with the detergent (not to say there isn't anything wrong with your dw as there certainly was with mine).

Has anyone reprogrammed the final rinse temp? Do you have a whole house softener? Anyone had you run the dw empty once or twice to be sure you don't have residual soap in there that's etching the dishes?

Guess I'm asking because I was encouraged here not to give up and I didn't and it got fixed. Also, I like my new Optima so much and hate to see you give one up if they can get it to work right.

Funny how the same dw works really well now after it was properly adjusted. Have they made any adjustments for you?

My opinion, not being a DW repair person, is that there is something wrong with the rinse function, which has caused the dirty dishes from day 1. Instead of fixing that, the techs have progressively increased the water temps and wash/rinse times, which in combination with the salt, have caused etching. But what do I know???

My 90-day performance guarantee expires next week. I need to return this thing while I still can.

Sounds like they really have failed you. Have you tried calling Paul, the head tech guy in Princeton? Haven't spoken to him recently but unless you've definitely decided to rip it, perhaps it's worth a final try. He's very nice and you can request him.

water can be too soft also!

the salt for Miele's is used only to re-charge the softener - it does not enter the wash water. Think batteries.

agree that you should send the unit back to Miele as you have been caught in a bureaucratic run around and this is the best option that has been presented to you.

Am I nuts or is this unbelieveable?

I guess I don't understand why you are calling Miele service ???? Seems strange...I don't even know where" Miele service" is LOL. All you have to do is have any authorized service tech from any appliance dealer come out. That is what my appliance person said. I hope this helps. c

I guess I don't understand why you are calling Miele service ???? Seems strange...I don't even know where" Miele service" is LOL.

The reason for an actual Miele employed tech is that they have propriety computer software, that is installed via a computer laptop they carry, for Miele models with the PC update feature. This allows them to connect to your appliance and perform diagnostics, upload current firmware, and to access and record data into their databases. Third-party techs do not have access to this software/hardware.

In your situation this is of no consequence, and you fared well. Consider yourself lucky.

mona thanks for the tip. I am using the vacuum now so I think that it won't wear out anymore. Good to know though :)

Baver - this is for the new part(s) for the oven from LUWA ???

You could call NJ and give them the serial # and ask for a disposition.

Not true. Speaking from personal experience, third party employees who are Miele-certified have the laptop programs to run diagnostics and fix appliances.

Miele has not sent me the paperwork as promised to enable me to return my DW under the 90-day guarantee, so I need to go another tiresome round with them.

baver - I was just clarifying that it was for the service call and not the letter campaign. Did you call NJ for a status report?

Very much in the manner of how some early importers and dealers in mass market German and Japanese cars did business. The products were good quality thanks to foreign exchange rates but the quote then was "It doesn't take genius to succeed while selling $20,000 worth of car for $15,000". Today the figures might need to be swapped and "it does take genius".

UPDATE - PART2: I may have misunderstood the clock thing, it sounds like perhaps they are replacing the whole control panel, but who really knows anymore. The tech has been very cooperative. Apparently, the oven is OK to use, but will I screw up my new temp sensor using an oven possibly made for 50 hz? I'm so confused.

YES, and get your dealer more involved, like yesterday.

"That being said, I will say, the numbers described below are well within the range we would expect. Convection ovens are tricky to test for temperature, they are most accurate in convection mode, but moving air is very hard to measure. Mieles strength lies in the consistency of temperature at any given setting, and predictable, consistent results."

"but we paid extra for the Electrolux for the same reasons you described. The replacement ovens work perfectly and the oven temperature is dead on."

Come to think of it, I know how, as you can calibrate the ovens right from the front "Wavetouch Controls". I haven't measured mine but it cooks just like our old oven did, same time and using the same set temps so I haven't bothered to check it---of course when using convection, we have to turn down the temp a bit and shorten the time.

Were I Miele, I think I would be a bit embarrassed by the fact that the Swedes (Elux) can put out an oven that is "dead on" @ temp calibration, has glide out racks and
at half the price of the German one (Miele)

I am not in Antss category when it comes to what is right/wrong/acceptable as far as oven calibration goes, so we anxiously await his answer.

I think I would be a lil "put out" by using (Please excuse the expression), "Fudge Factor" for such an expensive appliance!!!

Good Luck ---Hope all is resolved to your satisfaction!!!

Gary

Please bear with me, the mistake in all cases involved converting a temperature range not a temperature reading.
Example:
Quote:
"The water is approximately 50°F (10°C) hotter than what’s available from your hot water faucet." Unquote.

Mistake #1: "50" is a temperature range and is correctly written F°, not °F.
Mistake #2: 10°C is the equivalent temperature of 50°F but that is not what we are after, we want the range in C° equivalent of a RANGE of 50F°.

How to do the math:

There are a range of 100 degree divisions between 0°C (freezing) and 100°C (boiling).
There are a range of 180 degree divisions between 32°F (freezing) and 212°F (boiling).

Therefore one degree division C is equal to one decimal eight degree divisions F. ( 180 divided by 100 )
Therefore one degree division F is equal to decimal point five six C. ( 100 divided by 180 )

A range of 50 F° in C° is: 50 x .56 = a range of 28 C°

A range of 28C° was never a temperature of 10°C at my school if I correctly remember.

Pretty simple. But perhaps your oven is suffering from a similar error.

The two companies that I did contact had zero interest and continued to publish manuals for newer models containing the same mistakes.

Dacor readily offered to buy back my first double wall oven due to excessive condensation between the glass. Their other option was to give me their brand new model - which was $2000 more than I had paid for my defective model.

I do find it helps to speak with a supervisor - providing Miele will let you. Good luck.

dodge- I not sure the muckety mucks at Miele are totally aware of this situation at this point ! The nonsense baver is getting is from a regional distributor's head sales weasel who has no clue what he's talking about.

baver- you need to spend your time and energy navigating the Princeton , NJ bureaucracy and forget about LUWA. NJ, will try to push it back to the distrib. , don't accept this. Detail how you will drop everything and let everyone on the internet, a nationally syndicated consumer advice radio show, and your local TV News' consumer expose show that will reveal how Miele's glorious oven undercooks a pork roast by 20 deg. and makes everyone sick. The local distributor will be named also so you (sic) can imagine how much this is going to help sales !

Be very polite and unimotional but firm when you lay this out. You also have to be prepared to follow through.

Ayway guess Antss' tip will work great.
Agree with him, @ Princeton they aren't aware of Baver's troubles.
Whenever the Guetersloh headquarters will be aware of this situation I forecast a tornado in NJ .....

Go figure some years ago a serie of their toploaders had some flaws. In case of a service call involving one of these machines they replaced with a brand new - new design toploader, no matter the service call was actually due to the design flaw or not.
They prefered spend money in replacement rather than have unsatisfied customers and lose their reputation.
I read it on another forum and also was told by a serviceman

antss - your undercooked pork analogy is not really relevant - the internal temperature of meat is different than the oven temperature and you can cook the pork longer to achieve the desired internal temperature

I went in all prepared to find the Miele to come to 375 and 400, without any problems. NOPE. Preheat temps WAY off, 20-60 degrees. That algorithm they use, they need to throw it out - it does NOT work. On Convection Bake, the thermometers never surpassed 370 on my two thermometers. On Regular Bake, off by about 20. (I failed to write any of this down, foolishly thinking I would remember every detail, but you'll get the idea. SO, in the end, either this Miele was in need of help, or this is how they work.

2) The Wolf. I was angry now and ready to confirm 400 degrees on the Wolf and be happy to get my money back so I could go out and get a Wolf. Even though this means reconfiguring my cabinetry and losing my beloved rotisserie. I had a 48 AG range of the theirs in the past, and their service was always TOP NOTCH, although the range had a couple of issues, they were dealt with respectfully and promptly. THE RESULTS, their preheat was SPOT ON, well for about 95% of the time; obviously Miele could learn a thing or two from Wolf in how to display preheat temperatures. Use a sensor, not a formula. I was impressed. Ultimately the Wolf got to just below 400 on my two thermometers on Convection Bake, BUT THEN WENT DOWN after just a couple of minutes and settled in at about 380. I was shocked. Then, I thought, "Well, maybe these ovens are taking into account the different cooking modes when coming to their final resting place temperature." The whole "Reduce temp my 25 degrees or reduce cooking time by x amount of minutes when using convection" instructions most of us have heard. These ovens were essentially doing this. HOWEVER, then one would expect the BAKE function would be accurate. It wasn't. It too, got up to temp, then fell back 15 degrees.

3) JennAir. This has some really cool looking technology built in. A REAL Master Chef, that visually, on the oven screen, shows you where to put the temp probe in meat, an explanation of the different cuts...I was impressed, but I am also a bit of a snob, and it is still just a Whirlpool. :) The Rapid Preheat, not so rapid, took about the same time as the Wolf, much longer than the Miele (although who really knows, because the Miele never did see the correct temps). The preheat temps listed did not match my thermometer, like the Wolf did, but were much better than the Miele. JennAir is trying, but not quite there. The ovens came up to the temp selected, BUT ALSO slid back about 20 degrees on the Convection, 10 on Regular Bake.

4) GE Monogram. Worst of the bunch. The Preheat temp seemed like a totally random number selected by the oven. At one point off by 70 degrees. Even the Miele was better than this. It settled at 350 on Convection Bake at 400 and then slid back to 340. I had seen enough.

I came away really dismayed. It seems that no oven was truly accurate. For $4000, you'd think that's the least a manufacturer could give you. Now, perhaps, these showroom ovens weren't calibrated correctly, but I did stay away from another JennAir, that the salesperson told me was not calibrated correctly. And the Miele is allegedly "self-calibrating", so it shouldn't be needed.

ANYHOW, I got home and decided to make some Blueberry muffins, from a box. It said 400 degrees, 18-20 minutes. I selected Convection Bake 400, let it preheat, buzzer sounded at 325(according to my two thermometers), I put the muffins in anyhow, set the timer for 18 minutes, took them out after 18 minutes and they were nearly perfect, although the temp in that oven NEVER exceeded 365. So what gives? It MUST have something to do with the different functions, but why wouldn't REGULAR BAKE come to 400. Mine stuck at 360. I then tried Surround Bake; a little higher, maybe 370. THEN I tried SURROUND ROAST at 400, and even though the preheat temps were still not correct, it got to 400 or 200C AND STAYED THERE.

So, my question to all of you is, IS THIS CORRECT? Has anyone out there checked their DIFFERENT oven program temps with another thermometer? (I used BOTH the dial one, which does take a bit longer to respond to temp changes, and also a 'mercury-like' one from Taylor, which again, was RIGHT ON with the Wolf 95% of the time during preheat.

Of course, monaw, above had temp issues and says that her/his temps DO MATCH their separate thermometer on their Miele, so I am skeptical. Has anyone tried this? Could someone, please?

And if this turns out to be true, WHY DIDN'T Miele explain this better, other than "You just don't know how to cook with it."??? Their service has still been utterly appalling.

The occasional "Clacking" Convection Fan is a concern, and now I need to be on the alert for that and keep a recording device nearby. Despite the new control board, the clock also is still running a bit fast (electrical has been ruled out as a factor in this), but maybe it's using an algorithm for that too.

So, it's very late, I am probably rambling, so I will leave it at that. PLEASE check your ovens, if you have a secondary thermometer and let me know. I am incredibly curious and don't want to spend another afternoon in a showroom.

THANKS AGAIN.

Mindstorm is able to explain what goes on in the oven to bring it to temperature, then keep it there. Perhaps she'll post and explain how it works. Essentially, the oven heat must fluctuate some is my understanding. How much may be another story.

I spoke to them multiple times before I bought my oven. Their test kitchen guy told me 30 minutes to fully preheat -- don't pay attention to the beep. Right upfront.

Trailrunner, myself and others use the package stuff for temperature tests. Preheat 30 mins. Then, if packaged baking items are coming out done and on time, the oven's probably ok. Try Toll House cookies, or better, a Duncan bundt or angel food cake. Pillsbury biscuits.

In my oven, bake is a wimpy cycle. I use it for things like baked potatoes or a lasagna. Come to think of it, it's kinda slow. Mostly, I use intensive as it works best for me. Convection bake mostly for multiple racks or if I have thrown 2 racks in there with 2 different foods cooking at the same time.

Sounds like you need a replacement/repair but I'd see what more food tests show.

Thanks for posting your thermometer results. It's fascinating.

You've got mail.

Some background: our ovens were installed just before Thanksgiving 2007 and Thanksgiving dinner, which was to be eaten at 5:30 was ready at 8:00. It sill took me two months after that of failed cooking and baking, to realize it was the ovens not me. Off I went to get the required thermometers at BB&B and sure enough the ovens were off by a good 50 degrees.

The first phone call resulted in a reprogram over the phone to the correct voltage. Whoop dee whoo, I was only off 30 degrees now.

After much angst and being told this was an acceptable range, at least three service calls by a Miele service technician and one registered letter to Germany, they offered to either buy them back or replace them. I would have loved to get the Gaggenau ovens but the $500 for cabinet reconfiguration was just not in the budget so I chose to replace them with new Miele ovens.

Guess what? The new ovens were off too. But a reprogram to the correct voltage, what is it that they can't do this before shipping them out?, and a visit from the tech, AGAIN!, to recalibrate and I use that loosely as I don't really know what he did, and they work well enough now.

I bake for sweet tables and birthdays and use my ovens a lot.

This is what I've found:

1. I NEVER use regular bake and have no real idea why its even an option

2. Most of my day to day baking is done on the convection setting. I find recipes run true to time AND temp at this setting and need no adjustment for cooking on a convection setting. That being said, my ovens bake very evenly. I have made 6 sheets of cookies at a time and KNOW that the top right of the top rack cooks a little faster than everywhere else but I take that into consideration. Sometimes I don't put cookies there on that sheet and sometimes they are just a little more "done" then the others. I NEVER rotate sheets.

3. Pizza are cooked on Intensive and come out perfectly to our taste. I know there were many threads on here about the perfect pizza. Trailrunner can follow up on that if you want more info, I am sure.

4. I regularly roast turkeys using the Master Chef setting and they are the best turkeys I have ever made. I just lower the probe temp to 170. With tenting and resting for 30 minutes they are PERFECT!!

So here are the results of my tests...drumroll please :)

Starting temp was room temp (about 70 give or take a degree). Two thermometers were used: A Taylor liquid thermometer on the left of middle and a Tru-Temp dial thermometer on the right of middle.

I placed them on the rack third rung up from the bottom

First, I set the oven to regular bake 375 and started at 8:28 am. The beep went at 8:35 at which time the liquid thermometer read 340 and the dial thermometer read 300 (YUP, I had to check that one a few times myself).

At 8:38 the liquid thermometer was at 350 and the dial was catching up at 330.

At 8:45 they were both about 348

At 8:55 they were both around 352.

Then my kid missed the bus and we walked to school. When I came back at 9:33 both thermometers were at 375.

So at 9:33 I changed the oven from regular bake 375 to convection bake 400. At 9:37 the ovens beeped and both thermometers read 400. Yes, that was just 4 minutes later BUT after an hour preheat.

I turned them off. The fan is still going to cool them down and from my experience this will be another hour at least. Something to consider as it does use power.

Hope those test results help you get the results you want.

You know, maybe those original ovens of mine are still doing the rounds.

Time for another test.

11:23 Internal oven temp 150 on both thermometers. Set oven to Intensive bake 350.

11:30 Beep. Liquid 310, dial 275

11:45 both thermometers 350.

All above tests done in upper oven without fan guards in place

Next test: Bottom oven, no fan guard

11:58 Bake Convection to 350, start temp was room temp
12:07 Beep, Liquid 315, Dial 305
12:18 both thermometers read 350

Loves2cook4six, any idea why this one particular program would be correct and all of the others off???

Wow...they are terrible, I cannot believe the incredible bad level of service people they have. I don’t expect to be talked to like a king but also don’t expect to be addressed as if I was late on my house payments. Next stop Regional Manager and now I have plenty of information to complete, and send the letter to Germany. "Miele...anything else is just a compromise", really?????!!!!

CC the same letter to NJ and wait for the S#$% to hit the fan and believe me it will.

With the economy the way it is, you can't afford to throw your money away and Miele can't afford the bad publicity. Hopefully you will get a new oven in a few days from receipt of your letter in Germany.

The next stop IS NOT the regional manager. IT IS head of the company and no one lesser.

Good luck and please keep us informed. Your experience makes me hesitate to recommend these ovens as I don't want anyone I know to end up in the same situation as you due to a referal from me. Which is kind of sad, because despite the initial problems, I do think they are great ovens.

Antss, or anyone in the know - Is 'Messrs.' Miele and Zinkann short for 'Messengers' or something else? My proper German is a bit rusty.

If you KNOW their actual last names, address your letter to Mr. Miele and Mr. Zinkann. (I believe Marcus Miele and Reinhard Zinkann are there full names IIRC)

I'd also direct a copy (registered) of the letter to the executive officers and the shareholders secretary.

I would also seriously consider the buyback. Maybe your appliance dealer can help you out. Look at the Gaggenau's. Their side opening oven doors are a wonder and make working with hot racks, dishes etc, a breeze - very commercial style. A rotisserie may be an available add on accessory but their steam oven alone, would make me switch in a heart beat. It came out a year after we were done but if I had the chance, I would seriously consider them.

I REALLY DO NOT want to do the buy back, I just want Miele to be the Miele I had heard about, the Miele that has the great customer service, the Miele with the precise controls, the Immer Besser, the "Anything else is just a compromise." I have a Miele induction cooktop I love, and an oven I WANT to love. This lousy service just needs to be addressed by Miele in Germany. It sounds like they need to move their US operations to a state where people actually are happy to have jobs and happy to help the customer that has spent a lot of money on a product that could be had for A LOT less. There is no reason to ruin your good name worldwide because of your lousy, borderline dishonest operations in the US.

Yes it's disappointing that the product and the support don't live up to your expectations but at some point you have to cut your losses, and the fact that you're being offered a buy back is a lot better than other people with appliance problems have fared. Good luck.

I haven't been officially offered the buy back yet, but the oven is still under warranty, so that is the least Miele could do, but honestly, just give me an oven that is 400 or even 395 when set for 400. The oven costs nearly $4000!!! This shouldn't be a case of "Just set it 20 degrees higher." If I wanted that, I would have kept my old 1949 Kenmore that I had used for the past 4 years. Besides, the amount the oven is off varies by the temperature and the function selected, so that really isn't an option here.

I hope it works out for you. Check the date of manufacture to make sure you are getting a new one out the box and not my old one ;-)

BTW, if you do go for the buy back, then seriously look at the Gaggenau ovens. And I did a bit of research and those DO come with a rotisserie AND side opening doors.

ANy advice before I call for service?

(The install wass done by the son of the appliance store - which is a Miele live cooking showroom. He did a great job of spending time describing how to work all the appliances, but I have no idea if he qualifies as a Miele tech; I don know my warranty is in full force becuase I used them.)

We have a Miele dishwahser, induction cooktop, and the two ovens. The temperature problme on the full oven is the only issue we are having so far - except for having to learn how to use all the fancy features.

The only appliance we did not buy from this store was our refrigerator. We decided on an Electrolux and the first store did not carry them, nor could they order one. So we ordered the fridge from a second store. WHAT a difference on customer service. The first store spent lots of time, was careful with the kitchen, explained everything. The second store has a "dump and go" attitude - while they did hook up the refrigerator - which I paid for of course - they left packing tape all over it, damaged the ceiling (with no apology - we will fix) - told us severl things wrong (including handing me a box saying "this is a DVD to watch" - which turned out to be the air filter cartridge instead.)

Sorry to go on. Thanks for the help.

detective - I think your attitude is the one that's wrong. How many other companies are going to send out a brand new unit for one they feel there is nothing wrong with? Bosch ? No way. Kitchen Aid? They flat out lied to people for years about their faulty self clean shutdowns and they wouldn't even know how to send out a new oven if they wanted to. Wolf has sent out new gear, but it's generally rare to get a new unit from anyone. Repair,repair , repair. Also, where did you get the idea that the new oven won't have a warranty??? That Miele may be unwilling to deal with "lack of satisfaction" is not the same thing as no warranty !

baver - the letters should have gone out two months ago. You have simply been caught in the cogs of bureaucracy, the letters would have taken this to a different level in a shorter timeframe. Now they are simply going to be window dressing.

I have decided that I can't live without the rotisserie, so I eliminated the Wolf and I'm not about to play with Thermador.

Gary

Gary

Tracy

Certainly 20 degrees is much closer than 50. I have only checked Standard bake (which I will seldom use.) SO I need to run a lot more tests. I am surprised it claims it is preheated so long before it is.

Since it looks like I am in for some serious testing I am thinking I should invest in a better oven thermometer. Suggestions would be appreciated.

I will do some more experimenting before I decide if I want to call and discuss with technical support further.

In an UPDATE, my new oven arrives next week. An interesting conversation took place last night with the Wolf distributor at a National Kitchen and Bath Association function, who said a woman asked to come in last week with her thermometer to check the temps in their Wolf ovens. She had just had the Miele installed, and was told by Miele's wonderful service people in NJ that you can't go by thermometers (her oven temps were off as well), and that she basically didn't know how to cook. (Sound familiar?) The temps on the Wolf were allegedly within 5 degrees of her thermometer. The Wolf distributor was also shocked to learn that Miele uses an algorithm (one that is not accurate, BTW) rather than sensors for the preheat.
I am beginning to think that MANY more Miele ovens may find their ovens to be off in temperature if they were to cross-check the temps with another thermometer. Perhaps, that is why Miele is saying not to use thermometers, hmmmm. Oh well, new one on the way for me and a letter detailing the whole mess off to Germany. May need to follow-up that letter with a new one detailing the new oven, keeping fingers crossed.

Baking off a mix affords perfect results which is confusing to me - since my tried and true recipes need more fiddling with to bake properly. It really is the bake functions that are the most difficult in my oven. I always preheat for the full 30 minutes - except for box mixes which seem to come out perfectly no matter what I do....confusing. I preheat for 60 minutes when using a baking stone for bread or pizza. Also, I find I get better results with brownies, pies, cakes etc, to use a lower rack vs right in the middle. Sometimes I find the bottom not quite done if placed in the middle.

Regarding your clacking noise - the fan is expanding and hitting when it moves through a certain temperture range. You need to record it so the tech can hear the problem - open the door and HOLD the button on the side in so the convection fan still turns - then proceed wtih the recording. The fact that you only hear noise intermittantly tells you how slightly the fan is off and can probably just be adjusted. Jared at LUWA can help you with this. If it is the cooling fan, I believe it still turns with the door open, so you won't need to hold the button. Note the temp of the oven when you hear the noise so LUWA can check it when it occurs. Jared was able to adjust mine, and believe me it sounded like a machine gun as it went through 270 - 280..

I do think there is a bit of a learning curve with the ovens - but I find the rotisserie great, the temp probe perfect for roasting, turkey is perfect etc. It is just the baking that I had to adjust to, and I am getting better. I had to start giving away baked goods as I was trying so many recipes on different settings.

Honestly, it doesn't matter what the thermometer says is if the product comes out properly.

The manual DOES say when you are using Convection Bake, that you should use the first or second runners from the bottom.

Jared at Luwa has been great. No problems with him at all.

Still keeping my fingers crossed with the new oven, but the more I hear from others, the more it sounds like it is the luck of the draw. We'll see.

First off, I now have a rolling rack on the bottom. Yea! It's called a flexi-something, but it basically is one rack that rolls that comes with its OWN manual. The manual makes it sound awfully delicate, but it is nice to have.

Secondly, the new oven has the "Smart Steel", a coated stainless which is supposed to resist fingerprints. I was specifically told NOT to use any kind of stainless cleaner on it, basically just water and a microfiber cloth. The color is darker with this new coating, which frankly is fine, it looks better with the 48" Liebherr next door.

Next, there is no grease filter. There IS a place for it, but they no longer give you one, nor is there any reference to it in the manual. Strange. Good. Bad. I dunno. Most other ovens don't have one and seem to be able to handle the grease, perhaps Miele thinks theirs can at least handle it until the warranty period is over, whatever.

The broiler works SO MUCH better than my old oven. Totally, night and day. I am very happy. Don't get too excited for me yet.

The temperature tests on the other functions do not come out well at all. Temps are off even a bit more than my old oven. Convection Bake at 400, is registering 365. Surround Roast at 400, 385. I have to think that Miele does this on purpose and that is how they differentiate between all of the various program modes, but you would think one would be accurate. And then there is loves2cook4six above who showed that the temps can be exactly on, so I remain confused. I will try and get some baking in this weekend and see how it goes before I proceed with my next move. I will try the rotisserie tonight. I haven't checked the clock's accuracy yet, just been too busy. Still waiting to hear from Germany.

Any thoughts from people?

Thanks for following.

Just wanted to say that my tech who installed explained that the grease filter is no longer provided as the ovens are now Self-Clean rather than Perfect-Clean and the grease filter is no longer necessary.

I also have the new glide rack which looks (and feels) lovely!

Also, I noted that my tech said he set my voltage at 240. I'm in Canada, so maybe there's a difference (as I see references above to 220)?

I'll report if I have any temperature issues! VS

I ruined mine with all the artisinal bread baking that I have done for 4 1/2 yrs. I luckily bought the 5 yr warranty so had them both replaced in Nov. I will cont to bake at high heats but you need to be aware that if you use the self clean you had better have the extended warranty. The parts are $120 each and then the service call.

I will also add that this is true of ALL self clean ovens not just Miele and they ALL use the exact same part. I have Perfect clean and would never ever use/have self clean. So just be aware and have your warranty on hand. c

You have posted any news since april of last year on your oven issues. I was about to purchase the Miele magic chef double ovens until I came across this thread. Could you please give us an update? Thanks

I am at the point that buying anything at all literally makes me sick at my stomach (and this is not just because I am a guy who does not enjoy shoppping in general). I have noticed that I have become openly hostile to sales people in general. With very few exceptions, I have never met a "sales" person who had even the scant ethics of even a democrat politician. The fact that I am now expected to buy appliances from one of these ingenuine sociopathic sales types is so upsetting that I have my two kitchen remodels on hold. I have great inset all wood custom cabinets with great custom granite counters ... and no appliances. Friends of mine in CA hate their Miele, friends in Henderson Nevada hate their Subzero and Dacor, friends in NY hate their Monogram, friends in Naples Florida hate their AGA and Viking, friends in the Netherlands hate their Miele, friends in Carmel Indiana hate their Traulson and Miele, friends in Arizona hate their Kitchen Aid ... and it goes on and on with nightmare after nightmare of new appliances defective out-of-the-box, incompetent installers, unethical distributors, sales people that grab the big commissions and then can't even return follow up calls, manufacturers that don't honor their warranty committments or try to stong arm the very customers that their business should be treating with dignity and integrity. To add insult to injury, many regional better business bureaus rate these retailers and businesses A+. No wonder consumers have stopped purchasing ... it is not the recession that has stopped people from making major purchases, but, rather, the expectation that after-purchase headaches will take months and months to resolve with stress levels higher than paying for your childrens' college educations. Short of having an attorney produce a contract that the appliance supplier has to sign and be held to legally, does anyone out there have any other magic process. A process that assures the customer won't be setting themselves up for an extremely stressful experience with underpaid customer disservice departments trained by the Insurance claims industry to intimidate and wear down the customer to a point of having to just give up?

signed - a potential appliance customer in limbo