Just happened to see this thread. I baked 4 loaves of Challah a little over a week ago. They each weighed almost 2 # . I put 2 braids on each baking sheet and used 2 racks in the oven. I preheated at 350 convection bake, only until the tone signified it was ready . I never ever preheat longer unless I am using the stone in the lower oven. ( it lives in there). Anyway since the loaves were larger than usual, I usually make 6 not four from a double batch, I baked for 35 min. They were perfect. I have made this same recipe in every oven I have ever had....right at 35 yrs now. They always bake the same and in the same time.

I used auto roast on a 4 1/2 # chicken a couple weeks ago also. I don't usually use that setting but remembered others saying it worked really well. It performed perfectly. I loved the feature that counted down and the probe was perfect as I double checked the internal temp with my digital thermometer.

As for pizza I have started preheating with convection and then switching to surround. I like the 550 better.

Anyway just one more voice that is very pleased with the Miele ovens and the performance and the quality. I have used mine hard for 5 years in April and am very pleased. c

trailrunner,

Your's is the no longer available in North America, Perfect Clean model, isn't it? Most of us who seem to have issues, have the Self-Clean models.

I did a 425 degree auto-roast on a 3.5# chicken on Friday, timer went off indicating it was done. Looked done, took chicken out, let it sit for 10 minutes. Started cutting it up and it was nearly raw where the wing connects. Go figure. I officially hate my oven.

Oh no ! Yes I do have the Perfect Clean. After having self clean and rarely ever using it due to the horrible odor and then it messed up my oven....this was in our other house I decided that I would never ever have self clean again. I bet the mechanisms are different in the PC oven and that may well make a huge diff. I am SO sorry. I still would contact Miele and make them take the whole kit and kaboodle back. I would raise so much sand. I bought the extended 3 rd party warranty for $100 when I first got the ovens. I used it 2x and it expires in Aug....have had it 5 years. I was offered the extended again for 3 more years and I have snapped it up ! On all my appliances. It is not as cheap but with my service person 1 hr away it is $120 to come out and then repairs and labor so I will be ahead if the DW or the Twins or the Miele ovens go out one time. I know folks don't think they are worth it but I can't afford to replace $4000 ovens and the warranty will if they can't fix them. I sure hope you get some satisfaction . c

How long did the chicken cook baver?

Till it quit "clucking"

Dodge (exits Expeditioulsy, stage Right)

I have the same issues with the Miele Master Chef double ovens we bought as part of our kitchen remodel last fall. The ovens are beautiful, but they have never worked as well as the 11 year old Jenn Air ovens they replaced.

We noted very quickly that the preheat signal and the temperature display on the new ovens were totally worthless as they had no relationship to the actual oven temperature. I found that preheat on BAKE took 20-30 minutes AFTER the preheat signal went off to actually reach the set temperature. All that time the temperature display on the oven reported that they were at the set temperature. We had Miele out 3 times to address this. The service people were nice, but kept insisting that this was how the ovens were supposed to work. But they backed down when they put their temperature probes in the oven and saw how long after the preheat signal it took for the ovens to reach near the set temperature (the last 20-25 degrees took the longest). They replaced pretty much everything that could be replaced on the ovens to no avail. Finally, they agreed to replace the units.

The new units perform the exact same way, which has led me to conclude that this is a design flaw, not a defect in the ovens I had. I have a request pending with Miele for them to buy back the ovens so we can start over. I am supposed to hear from them this week, but they told me the same thing a couple of weeks ago too. We're not happy about the need to replace the ovens since we're concerned about how they may fit in the custom cabinets, but we're also not happy with ovens that cost over $5000 that require us to rely on a $10 oven thermometer in order to gauge when the oven in ready to bake.

In the interim, I have learned that the fastest preheat is on INTENSIVE BAKE. I just baked something tonight at 450. When the preheat signal went off the ovens were actually at about 375. It took another 15 minutes or so to get to 450. For some foods I preheat on INTENSIVE BAKE and then switch to another setting, but I find that the ovens tend to lose heat and then are VERY slow to recover.

Anyway, I'll let you know when I hear a decision from Miele, and I would welcome advice on a replacement.

John

JOhn you might want to post a note to rhome410....she has been in oven replacement H#$% and come out the other side and and is pleased with her choice. She has email through GW and also looks at Kitchens on a daily basis. Good Luck, c

LOL Gary. I was depending on you.

jk makes a good point. Trailrunner and I have different ovens which clearly explains the different experience.

rhome seems happy with her Wolfs.

An update. Miele now claims there will be a software update available by the end of the month that will hopefully address the temperature issues. They appeared to be stalling in answering my direct request for a buy back. I agreed to wait for the software update since buying new ovens will not be easy since the new ovens will need to fit into the custom cabinet cutout.

We'll see if this makes a difference or is just a stall.

Is this software update going to be made available to all?

Wow, a potential fix. This is news. The question remains, why does this problem not seem to exist for those with PerfectClean ovens? Of course, is the software update just for the stupid preheating algorithm (which isn't correct), or is it for all of the weird temperature issues?

Do we know which Miele oven models this forthcoming software update is for? Single ovens? Double ovens? Speed ovens?

I'm not sure what models the update may apply to. We have the double MasterChef. The guy I spoke to was pretty cagey about whether this was an update for all units, I think he was trying to avoid admitting to a systematic problem. But, since he told me the update was coming from the engineers in Germany, it seems highly unlikely that this is just an update for me. I suspect only those who complain will get the update since it will require a service visit to install new software or a new control board.

So, after months of waiting for Miele to call me with the availability of the software update, I called them a couple of weeks ago. They said there was a firmware update that would correct the heating/temperature problem. Great!! Except, it did not work. The Miele technician came today and installed a new "updated" power control board. He then tested the oven and the same heating issues were there as before. For example, he tested on convection bake at 325. The preheat signal went off when the thermocouple in the oven read about 225 and the over did not heat above 260 in the time he waited. He also tested in surround bake and the performance was even worse. He gave up when the oven got to 280 for a 375 setting.

Hopefully this saga will come to an end soon for us since he admitted he had no further suggestions for how to fix this problem. To recap, we installed the new double ovens as part of a kitchen remodel last summer. We immediately noted problems with oven heating/temperature accuracy. Miele replaced essentially every replaceable part on those ovens to no avail. They also had us take out all the drywall behind the oven to improve ventilation, similarly to no avail. Finally, they replaced the ovens with a new set. Same problem. Now the firmware update that we've waited many months for has also failed.

We plan to demand our money back and move to some other brand. This is sad since we like the look of the Miele ovens in our kitchen and I'm very concerned about finding another high quality oven that will fit in the same hole in the custom cabinets. I'll post separately for recommendations for a replacement.

I am just sick for you. And feeling very lucky about mine since it is a replacement. Been there and it's no fun.

All I will say is: Wolf.

jkjjpc - it doesn't really sound like you need spine-stiffening advice; you sound like you have your rights under control. But I just wanted to note that the 'buy back offer standing only once' doesn't really sound reasonable. If they offered once, and there is all this broohaha for so long, they should offer twice.

good luck. I'm sorry for your mess.

And while this isn't directly relevant, I thought it dovetailed with the notion that German electronics are too complex. I have the lower-end speed oven and it comes with a completely useless manual. Figuring out how to use the thing is a huge problem. I know it sounds racist, but I would expect this sort of manual uselessness from a non-Germanic-language company, but from Germans I expected they could hire someone to write in a way that was explanatory in, say, German and then just translate it easily-enough. When the native language is composed of pictograms, I could see there might be a translation-issue, but German-English? I don't get it. I asked and was told "oh, but we sell to so many with so many languages, blahblahblah....". Bottom line, I think, is the speed ovens even at the user-level, never mind the electronics one, are too complicated, apparently, to even write about.

Weird....

Plus, btw - there are all these good writers on GW. Why can't one of you write a manual for the speed ovens??? ;)

Mojavean would be the best bet for a good writer, and it should be a "Good Read" too, Goooooo MoJO er I Mean MoJA!

Gary

Any update on the software update? Has this issue been fixed yet? We were leaning toward the miele speed oven and would prefer to have an oven that matched.... or at least looked nice with it.

bump

We are thinking of pulling a trigger on a double oven Miele. MOdel # H4892BP, it's NOT the latest model. It's a floor model. Anybody have any info?

I wouldn't be anywhere near "pulling the trigger". Given all of the nightmares reported here, I wouldn't even be "setting my sights" on the Miele ovens until this problem is resolved.

1) If it were just one person reporting the problem it would be entirely different, but there are SEVERAL on this forum reporting the temperature problems

2) Furthermore, there are pretty detailed discussions on Miele trying to fix the problem(s) to no avail

This has to be a nightmare to spend this kind of money on what you hope is going to be a "BMW" oven only to find out your particular car won't come out of 2nd gear!

We have been totally pleased with Miele dishwasher and are getting ready to purchase Master Chef Speed Oven but I would not touch a Miele Oven having read this (and other) threads re. the temperature issues.

I wouldn't buy the regular Miele oven. We have had one since April 2011 (along with the speed oven). The big oven has had bad temperature problems (actual temperature is much lower than stated temperature). We have had repair people in 4 or 5 times, most recently a few weeks ago. We have had the electronic guts replaced and most recently the temperature sensors. Can't say whether the most recent repair has fixed the problem yet. For an ultra premium product, the machine should work better.

I moved into a house last year that had the Miele oven and cooktop built in's installed. I was so happy to see them, as I've been a big Miele fan since having one of their vacuums, and once I saw the cost of the oven I thought it must be amazing. Well...it took some getting used to as far as which mode to use for which application. I think I have that part down now and very happy with the results BUT, it is SUPER slow to preheat. I used to preheat in surround, but even that seems to be slower than ever to start out now. I find if I start with broiler for 15 minutes then switch to surround it's pretty good, but the first 300 degrees is painfully slow. I'm tempted to call a repair man in to see if something is wrong, but after reading this thread, I wonder if it's just a piece of crap oven. Yes, it produces great results, but for day to day use, a 45 minute preheat is pretty long and likely a huge waste of energy. I mean sometimes it just sits at 84 degrees for 5 minutes and slowly starts to add a degree here and there....pretty sad for any oven, let alone a high dollar oven. Anyone have any ideas as to what I could check? Could it be wired incorrectly?

I find it interesting how the various modes work. Some are gentle heat, others blast...very cool oven, but the warm up time is just sickening.

Like several others that have written in, my Miele ovens (separate, not double), have been very reliable. I did check oven temps at first, and admittedly, they were always about 25 degrees off. However, they reliably produce a good product within the time frame stated on most recipes. If a recipe says 25min. or until lightly browned, it's almost always spot on 25min. I just use the "Rapid Preheat" mode, then for insurance leave it on the selected mode for a few minutes (NOT 45min. as 1 person stated). I do not have the Master Chef ovens, just Chef.

Just wondering if the issues with Miele ovens have been rectified. I've been debating between wolf and Miele and am now thinking gaggenau. I'll be so angry with myself if I spend this kind of money on ovens and am not happy with them!

Just wondering if the issues with Miele ovens have been rectified. I've been debating between wolf and Miele and am now thinking gaggenau. I'll be so angry with myself if I spend this kind of money on ovens and am not happy with them!

panzer1, not sure if the Miele temp issues have been corrected, but i do have gaggenau double ovens and they are magnificent! I swoon every time I look at them and using them is a breeze! If you are going to spend the money, go with Wolf or Gaggenau and you will be happy!

Thanks Clarygrace, do you know if the gaggenau's have something like the masterchef on their ovens? Or even the ability to program once you have a favourite?

Also, can you tell me what you love specifically about the gaggenau?

I'm wondering if I will hate the side swing, how do you feel about it?

Does it come with a probe like the Wolf and Miele or how does it know when its done cooking?

One of the things the website says is the preheat is really fast. Do you find that?

What about service? have you had any issues?

I'm just looking at their website and their induction cooktop has the ability to program in favourites, I'm guessing if their ovens had that ability it would be mentioned!

Do you have a gagg induction cooktop? If so, do you notice if it has the loud buzzing that some people notice with their induction units? I'm also looking at the full 36" cooktop, but how do you monitor if you want to cook two different things at different temperatures? I also like that I can get the gaggenau griddle as a single unit, which I cant with Wolf (I can also get this as a single unit with Miele).

Thanks again for your feedback!

The other thing I like about

I actually love the fact that the doors have a side opening, you can open them and be right in front of the oven to pull items out and you don't get a blast of heat coming at you! I believe you can preprogram, however I have not done so yet. It definitely comes with a probe and it has a rotisserie, which is a great feature! Used it this weekend and it was easy to use, my filet mignon was cooked to perfection! the preheat is fast on convection, and that's how I usually start and then change the setting if need to. It cookes evenly and quickly.

I have not had any service issues, but did call c/service after install since it was in demo mode, they quickly emailed me instructions and voila', up and running.

I do not have induction cooktop. I love gas and have a six burner Bertazzoni cooktop which I love. I lived in Italy for a number of years so it makes me feel like "home"!

Good luck with your purchases. You will not be disappointed in a Gaggenau -- they are simply the best, it's what you can expect from a company that has been in business for 300 years and invented the enamel process that you see in ovens today.

Thank you so much Clarygrace! I've got some calls out to the places listed on the gaggenau website to get a feel for their opinions on service. One thing they said about Miele specifically was that it takes a long time to get parts because they have to order them from Miele directly, but I think I would have that issue with Gaggenau or Wolf too, so if thats the only issue they mention, it would be the same strike against all of them!

The rotisserie was something that I thought I would use tons too, which was why I was leaning towards the Miele over the Wolf. I just can't seem to get past the reviews on here, so I started looking into what else was available. I would have gone with the Wolf, but I've talked to people I know personally who have one and say they have the same issues with the temperature (although I don't think anyone here has had that issue).

Thanks again for your opinion.

Spring

IMHO, the reason why you don't see a lot of reviews may be that folks who own gaggs aren't necessarily plugged into review boards much. I would also posit that the oven is almost in a class of its' own, much like uber upper end french ranges etc.

I know many here will tout the virtues of their appliances over others, and will cite the high price tag as deterrent, but would not trade my ovens for any other, and I did my homework, just like you.

Cheers!

I have not seen any postings dated after July 2012 regarding the Miele oven temperature issues. Does anyone know if this means Miele has everything fixed? I have terrible oven heating issues with my Miele double ovens, which I have owned for about 3 years. I have not been as persistent with Miele as many of the others who have posted here. But now I plan on taking this on as a project, because I thought I was buying such a wonderful product. I am disappointed, to say the least. The Miele dishwasher I had was a dream, as is the top of the line Miele vacuum. I find it hard to believe that they would allow the oven temperature problem to continue. Would love to hear from anyone with current updates.

^Miele has fixed the problem. See the page 80 of the linked service manual.

Here is a link that might be useful: MasterChef service manual

Thank you, thank you hvtech42! I had just scheduled a service call before I saw your post. Now, at least I have some hope that I will have an oven I will enjoy.

Baver here (the original poster). The link above no longer works, does anyone have access to page 80 of the service manual? The page that perhaps could fix our Miele oven temperature issues. It had been so long, I had given up.

Nice to see you here again Baver (or at least see your typing)!!!

From the research that I did on the temp problem, it was found to be a "Software Problem".

Unfortunately I can not find the Miele service manual that hvtech42 originally posted.

But I do recall doing a search for the "Power electronic EPL 782 (as Miele calls it). That is what we call the "main control board". It is Miele part number 6203395.

I do recall that in the service manual, this board was "blamed for the oven temp problem"~~~~well actually the software on the board.

Asssuming your oven uses the same board as rococogurls oven, then replacing that board, (as long as it had the same software revision as Rococogurl's should be the solution to your way too long suffering!!!!

I do hope that hvtech42 is able to find that service manual and post it again, (ya know, just to "double check" my Memory!!!!

Good luck with it!!!!!

Gary

Baver/flattail: I got your email. Sorry to hear all that all this time has passed and your oven still hasn't been fixed. After what you went through with them I can't believe that Miele did not contact you once the fix was available!

Instead of sending the manual to you as an attachment I will post it here again so that it might help other people who need it. It looks like your board needs to be replaced. This version of the manual was published in 2013 so I would guess that's when the fix came out. The manual also explains how to enter service mode, which will let you check the software version you have, and compare it to the table in the manual to make sure it is the known defective version.

Miele had better not charge you a DIME for this fix.

Here is a link that might be useful: MasterChef service manual

Thanks hvtech42! Sorry taken a bit to respond. Still waiting to hear from them. I certainly hope this fixes everything. Once that is confirmed, a certified letter will be on its way to Germany. Can't believe they aren't doing anything unless someone complains. Apparently, many buyers only buy Miele ovens to look at and not to cook in. This service bulletin explains so much of their past behavior. "We don't use thermometers." Yeah, right. Glad I checked back in after so much time has passed. Thanks again and I will post if and when I get the update.

Hello All,

I was curious about the Miele H4886BP (it's a Master Chef in the Europa design). The showroom here is remodeling and offered a deal on it. Does anybody know how I can find out what year this model is (the showroom guy wasn't much help). I checked the service manual link above and do not see this model listed, so is it safe to assume there were no issues with this particular model? Any info is greatly appreciated. I am so sorry to read about all the issues some of you have been having. I can only imagine the frustration you must be experiencing.

As best I can tell, from googling H4886BP as well as downloading the install manual for it (the install manual is "coded" as "Specification Sheets OJS 09102011" so based on that number I would guess the oven came out in 2011.

I could also find some "internet chat" about the oven starting in about 2012.

I could not, however, find any reviews on it.

It does appear to be built after the redo of the earlier software that "Some" had problems with.

There are several "Deals" on the oven on the web, most are priced at less than 1/2 MSRP.

Be sure you get the original factory warranty, check out service in your "Particular Geographic area", and check out the company you are buying it from.

And yes, it is not listed in the software update chart, (whjch I hope is accurate.

Good luck!

Gary

I believe the year of manufacturer is coded into the serial number somehow.

Thanks for your prompt replies :) They've offered a good price and I believe he said 1 year warranty. It looks great although I am a little concerned that the Master Chef series may be a little more oven than what I need.......can it be used fairly simply (i.e. manually) or is it best to utilize the programmed modes? Will I hate all the menus? I'm a pretty basic cook. I went in to look at the Bertazzoni 30" oven in black glass (yes, I liked the looks of it), but not too much info on those ovens around and he offered up the Miele.

Also, we live in a Miele/Wolf dominated area, so service should not be a problem if needed.

I have had MAJOR problems with the Miele oven and they have never admitted there is a problem except for a European/US setting difference. I suggest we get together and fight this legally.

jc15, I'm looking at the same Miele, also at a good price from a showroom. Did you end up getting it? If so, what do you think?

funkysoul, I did not end up purchasing it. I went with the Bertazzoni.

hvtech42, Do you mind posting that link to the Master Chef Service Manual again? The dropbox link above is not working any longer and I couldn't seem to find it online. Did you find it on Miele's website or elsewhere?

I have the 30 Double Oven H398BP2 oven and have had very similar temperature problems as others have described on this thread.

One was pretty scary where I was making yogurt using the very low heat "Proof" setting overnight. We woke up to a red hot oven that seemed to be in Self Clean mode! It was scary hot. While under warranty, Miele tech came out and couldn't replicate the issue... that was a number of years ago and since then we have been nervous to use the upper oven.

The upper oven often now tends to overheat and just keeps heating uncontrollably even though the temperature setting says otherwise. For instance, last night I was making pies for Thanksgiving and I thought I might try the top oven again. I preheated it to 375 on Convection Bake and it beeped when completed. However I wasn't quite ready with the pies and later opened the open and noticed it was very hot. When I checked it with another oven thermometer it read 600 degrees.

The bottom oven works pretty consistently most of the time, so we have just been using that for many years now and actually getting great results.

I would love to get this finally fixed if a new logic board/firmware might do the trick.

Thanks everyone who has posted to this thread over the years! It's been very helpful in identifying the issue.

I'll keep the Miele temperature issue current for 2016. I have a Miele H4890BP2 (MasterChef 48" double oven) and have had it in operation for about 6 years. From the start it has *never* worked properly. Unfortunately, I assumed for the first 2 years that the temperatures were correct as shown on the display, and that the issues with baking were my fault. After putting good oven thermometers in both ovens, I realized that the oven temps were not at all what the ovens were displaying. After about 30 minutes to reach temperatures, the actual temperatures are always 25-50 degrees below the display temp (not to mention the "reached temp" alert beep occurs within 5 minutes.

However, for the past year, only the bottom oven heats and maintains temperature. The top oven will heat to a maximum of 325-375 and within 15
minutes stops heating entirely. It shows no fault messages, and the display indicates that it is still attempting to heat...it just goes cold despite the display declaring that it is preheating.

BTW, the Miele installer (who no longer sells Miele) did not set the voltage to the proper US setting--something I only knew to check after reading these boards!

There is no Miele authorized
service provider in my area and every other
appliance repair people I've called all have refused to work on Miele ovens!

I finally sent an Email to Miele about two weeks ago and have not gotten a response. It's incredibly disappointing to say the least to have paid this much for an appliance and it never work properly, and then be unable to find a local service provider. Especially horrifying is that Miele clearly must know that there was and is an issue with these ovens but have not been proactive and/or responsive to customers who own these ovens. This is not at all what I expected when doing business with Miele.

Two weeks ago I got the 30inch 2018 gas range. I am in horror of the wait times to call. The oven temp is way off! The timer goes off (there is no display on this new range) so I had to get three oven therms to prove my point. The timer goes off in about eight minutes. The oven is set for 450, but the the temp is 300? Yes. And it took close to 40 minutes to get the temp right. If I cannot trust the timer and there is no read out? I guess I have to return and get the Wolf. The tech came out and said they are like this. I am a pretty serious cook and baker, so this is not acceptable. I love the stove top and the looks of the range, but even after he, supposedly, calibrated it, it's way off. I have been given so many stories by Syndner Diamond in Santa Monica, the installers .... my head is blowing up. And for 5K? I am so disappointed.

i have the same problem with my new miele 24” oven installed in 2022. For example if i set the oven to 375 the preheat indicator will beep

and the display will show 375 but the actual

ambient oven temp is 300. This was verified and confirmed in the site visit report by the miele tech. Depending on the stlected mode the temp diference can be greater and It can take additional 10 to 30 minutes gor the oven to get to the set temperature. Once the oven finally heats up it seems to maintain the set temperature.

What is most infuriating is that miele engineering issued a statenent claiming that the preheat indicator versus actaual temp variance is implemented by design and the oven is functioning properly.