American Range Performer Series ARROB430 is 29 7/8" wide like the Dacor but burners are far superior.

Cheaper at $3300 too.

I would say customer service and reliability for American Range and Dacor is about the same, a notch below Wolf and Capital.

According to the install guide, the Bluestar ranges only require a 30" opening.

Are you referring to the superiority of open vs. sealed burners? Beyond those differences, one of the things that I did like about the Dacor was the placement of the burners ... the smallest burner is in the back, whereas AR puts that little burner on the front, which I don't like. Cosmetically, what I don't like about the Dacor are the flimsy oven racks, the glowing blue stuff around the control knobs, the shiny chrome inserts stuck on the corners, and the giant 14 inch grates on the top which are just too big to manuveur around. Function-wise, I have no idea what it's like. They've plugged some of the holes on the burners to protect the grates from the flames ... I'm not sure if this affects the function of the burners and wonder if it's an indication of the poor quality of the grates. It also has a ceramic broiler and I've not had any experience with those so don't know how well it will work. It also kind of bothers me that I've never, EVER, seen a Dacor in anyone's home, so I can't get a single first hand opinion on the brand. I'd really just like to get some feedback about the Dacor at this point.

This post was edited by jellytoast on Wed, Feb 13, 13 at 17:34

I have a twelve year old Dacor closed burner SS gas cooktop with those large grates you mention. It's easy to move from burner to burner and the grates (two) are not overly heavy and clean up well. So does the surface; hardly any aging of the stainless around the burner area after lots of spill overs and cooking.

Dacor is promoting tech intelligent ranges. I read a little but you might want to delve into that-possibly impact on circuit boards? Heard about the blue lights-it's part of this advanced tech look and cell phone programmable start/control.

Only thing I've heard about the Dacor ovens was on an electric so no comparison, but that they had a long pre heat time. Good luck jellytoast.

The performance differences between a competently designed open burner and a sealed burner is no small thing. In your first post you mention choosing function over form.

You can customize the AR.

But the price starts to add up.

A ceramic broiler functions just fine but is not as durable as SS mesh broilers.

The average home cook will not use the broiler enough to wear it out but for around the same money rather have the SS mesh broilers.

I know Dacor electric ovens are very expensive yet have a life expectancy of about 10 years or at least that is what a friend of mine heard from a Dacor rep when her wall oven died after 10 years. Their attempt at a dishwasher was also a mess but a gas range is a much more simple machine. I have read no more complaints on Dacor than average.

Thanks so much for the input. I am stalling my decision for as long as I can, hoping that I will see or hear something that will make the choice easier. Unfortunately there is not one range that I am madly in love with, and I haven't quite accepted that I'm going to have to settle for something that isn't perfect.

AFAIK, the blue lights on the Dacor gas range serve only to illuminate the knobs while the oven or the burners are on. Small thing, I know, but it's just gimmicky to me and I find things like that annoying and distracting, especially since the one circling the oven knob flashes on and off continually as it maintains temperature.

deeageaux, do you have an AR range? If you are wowed by its function, perhaps it's worth anther look. I ruled it out early in my search after going to look at one, but can't remember if there was more to the decision than the burner placement (which I really don't like). Also, changing the riser and adding leg caps adds to the cost. I also thought the specs said I needed 34 inches between the range and the bottom of the hood (I only have 30), but maybe I misread them.

Still hoping to hear more on the Dacor, and am bummed that I can't get any feedback about the newly designed Wolf from an actual user.

This post was edited by jellytoast on Thu, Feb 14, 13 at 10:29

Posted by deeageaux

American Range Performer Series ARROB430 is 29 7/8" wide like the Dacor but burners are far superior.

How so? Have you used both to compare? "Superior" is such a subjective term.

I would say customer service and reliability for American Range and Dacor is about the same, a notch below Wolf and Capital.

How are you coming to this determination?

Going by what is written on this forum, there is very little if any written on American, Dacor service varies wildly, Capital, which you might have experience with, is variable too but better if you can get Trevor Lawson to go to bat for you. Wolf owners have gotten good service the most consistently of these brands mentioned.

I personally have only experienced Dacor which for me was abysmal but thankfully it was five years ago and they wrote me an email saying they have changed. One thing about Dacor other than the electronics was that the pretty blue knobs were flimsy and one cracked just while turning the knob. Another thing was the blue enamel chipped very easy inside both ovens (wall and range). Hopefully this has all improved. You are probably better off with one of their gas ranges-if it is an older more proven model. I think at one time they were good.
I own a Wolf DF range now but have not experienced their service other than a call after I bought it inquiring if everything was working correctly. It was.

Most service seems to vary geographically if nothing else.

"Abysmal experience with Dacor" ... not quiet the review I was hoping for. :-) I'm surprised at how little information there is about them. Are people just so happy with them that they don't feel the need to complain about them, or is no one actually buying them? Looks-wise, Wolf is my first choice. Plus, I like the burners on the Wolf, as well as the fact that most seem to rate their service and support as top notch. The problem is that they have redesigned the new all gas version and the new model isn't available for delivery until March 1st, so I can't get any first-hand opinions about it. I don't think the new-style range top is an improvement over the old. It has little removeable plastic trim pieces that fit into the cracks between the stainless and the porcelain ... they are supposed to keep crumbs out, but would do nothing to prevent liquids from going in. Plus, the plastic pieces are not available for the cracks between the stainess and porcelain in the front and back of the range, so what's the point, really? Why not just seal the rangetop and be done with it? Still, there are lots of Dual Fuel owners who seem thrilled with their ranges (new gas model is supposedly modeled after the duel fuel) so obviously others aren't bothered by this. I can probably overlook that issue and learn to live with it, but the new oven ignitor design is really giving me pause. I was told at the Wolf showroom that there were no changes to the oven, but I was told otherwise when I contacted customer service. Apparently, the spark type oven ignitors last longer than the glow type, so they changed the new model. Not the best trade-off IMHO. I may try to hold off on my decision until after this range is released and I can get some real feedback from someone who has actually used it. The frequent ticking from the Viking oven is quite loud and distracting, but maybe that isn't the case with the Wolf. One thing that does attract me to the Dacor ... they list "no ticking from the oven" as one of its features. It may come down to the question of which features will irritate me the least ... the funky blue glowing knobs, or the ticking oven and unsealed cook top? I think I may need a third option, as I'm not ready to settle quite yet.

Posted by jellytoast
"Abysmal experience with Dacor" ... not quiet the review I was hoping for. :-) I'm surprised at how little information there is about them. Are people just so happy with them that they don't feel the need to complain about them, or is no one actually buying them?

It is a mixed bag though as one poster here when I had mine actually got great service on the corporate level. He lived close to the mothership though. He went through 3 ovens and they actually drove one from the factory to his house.
I don't think the new-style range top is an improvement over the old. It has little removeable plastic trim pieces that fit into the cracks between the stainless and the porcelain ... they are supposed to keep crumbs out, but would do nothing to prevent liquids from going in. Plus, the plastic pieces are not available for the cracks between the stainess and porcelain in the front and back of the range, so what's the point, really? Why not just seal the rangetop and be done with it? Still, there are lots of Dual Fuel owners who seem thrilled with their ranges (new gas model is supposedly modeled after the duel fuel) so obviously others aren't bothered by this.

I really like the sealed burners and think that the difference is negligible in heat to the pan. Mine does not have the plastic things though and is so tight nothing spills through. I do use a toothpick or toothbrush to clean it. Maybe something has changed there. Plastic things would irritate me.

I can probably overlook that issue and learn to live with it, but the new oven ignitor design is really giving me pause. I was told at the Wolf showroom that there were no changes to the oven, but I was told otherwise when I contacted customer service. Apparently, the spark type oven ignitors last longer than the glow type, so they changed the new model. Not the best trade-off IMHO. I may try to hold off on my decision until after this range is released and I can get some real feedback from someone who has actually used it. The frequent ticking from the Viking oven is quite loud and distracting, but maybe that isn't the case with the Wolf.

I wouldn't like that either. If you have a Wolf center near you maybe you can see a live one and see how loud it is. It is a lot of money to spend. If it is like the Thermador burners that would be a deal killer for me.

Wekick, I went to the Wolf showroom, but they only have the dual fuel set up "live" so I couldn't test out the new gas oven ... disappointing.

Consider yourself lucky if you don't have the plastic inserts on your dual fuel. I don't know why they would add them to the gas range since the cook top is supposedly the same as the dual fuel, but the spaces between the porcelain and the stainless trim were anything but "tight." The long plastic strips just scream "cheap" to me and they look like an afterthought. Their entire purpose is to discourage crumbs from falling into those spaces, so that is just poor design IMHO.

Perhaps the new spark ignitor's ARE longer lasting than a glow-type, but you would think they would use one that didn't continually spark. My old Caloric range (I'm beginning to really miss that thing!) sparked to ignite, but after that, it never made another sound. I'd rather replace a quiet ignitor more frequently than be irritated by a long lasting noisy one.

jellytoast--

I've forgotten but I recall that you really wanted the older model Wolf that is now discontinued, but you thought it would be too wide. Is the new model really skinnier? When we just installed our Wolf (the now discontinued open burner) we had to pare our countertops down just a bit to get it to fit in as a replacement for our old 30" range. These counters are tile, and we are replacing them so we didn't mind doing this. Could you do something similar if you are only talking 1/8" or 1/4"?

The old model measures 30 inches and the new model is 29 7/8. I have an opening about 30 1/6 on the cabinets, and 30 exactly on the granite. I wouldn't want to plane the cabinet opening, but could shave down the granite a bit if I had to ... but I don't really want to because it has a machined edge that is now perfect and I don't want to deal with the mess it would make either. When I measured the floor model of the old gas model, there were places where it measured over 30 inches. Wolf's tolerances are +/- 1/8 of an inch. Part of me wishes I'd just picked up that floor model and did whatever it took to get it in. It drives me crazy that manufactures don't have a universal standard for what a 30 inch range should actually measure.

Go back and see if they still have that floor model you want.

I just measured my range, and it is 29 7/8 all the way. If you have to have someone in to plane down the edge of the granite (and have the accompanying mess), you'll have to do that. But, the range just might slide right in. And, in the long run, no matter what you'll have the range you want rather than making a compromise on short term pain (hassle and potential mess) over long term satisfaction with the range itself. Just my two cents!

needinfo1, thank you for the advice and the push ... I needed that! I called the dealer and the floor model is still there! They are holding it for me and I will go down and get it tonight. We will just have to find a way to make it work, and maybe it won't take too much tweaking to get it in. I'm excited and will be happy to put this whole range thing behind me. I'll let you know how it pans out, and thanks again. :-)

Good luck! I hope it goes smoothly!

We too were caught in the range analyzing and shopping and debating cycle (where I am right now with countertops). It reaches the point where you just need to make a decision and be done with it. Finding the Wolf on clearance finally pushed us to make a decision because we knew if we didn't act sooner rather than later, and then ended up deciding it really was what we wanted, that option would no longer have been available.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you all will go smoothly with the install.

Thanks needinfo1! Just got back from the dealer and the range is mine! It doesn't have a backsplash on it, so I will have to get either the small riser or the island trim. We will have to move (yet again!) the gas and electric locations. Did you say in the other thread that it needs a 3/4 inch connect? We have a 1/2 inch now which is all the Viking required.The range will be delivered Wednesday and we will see then exactly what needs to be done to the cabinets and granite to get it in. PITA for sure, but I'm excited to be moving forward. I've been hung up on ranges 24/7 for two weeks ... it is exhausting!

Congrats!

Yes, it needs the 3/4" because we also had to change ours from 1/2". Hope it goes well!

The floor model we bought had a 10" backsplash mounted on it that we were required to buy. If it hadn't been on it, I probably would have never thought of this size, but I do kind of like it.

Needinfo1, if you don't mind my asking an install question ... the specs show that the gas line needs to fit in an area no higher than 2 inches off the floor. I have no idea how we could get the gas line to come out that low. Our gas line runs down the wall and comes out very close to the floor and about 7 1/2 inches from the left of the cutout. It is already sitting nearly on top of the 2x4 plate that runs along the bottom of the wall. Including the shut off valve, it measures about 3 inches off the floor. How did you install your gas line? I could see the back of the range in the showroom, and I could see that there was an open space all along the bottom about 2 inches high, but the gas line input on the stove was actually at about 7 1/2 inches off the ground. I don't know why the specs show to bring the gasline out so low ... can you clarify that for me?

Also, would you mind measuring the width of your riser? My range measures a little wider in the back than the front, and I am worried that adding the riser will add even more width to it (there is no riser on it now so I can't measure it). Right now there is just an open space along the top back where the riser goes ... does it fit INTO this space, or stick out OVER this space on the edges?

(posted to your other thread as well, in case you don't see this one)

UPDATE: I have the range at home now. It is really lovely and in excellent shape considering it is a floor model. I can't locate the anti-tip mechanism in the packaging, but everything else appears to be there.

This post was edited by jellytoast on Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 22:44

jellytoast--I'll post this here and in my posting reviewing this range. Notes are from my husband.

We installed the gas through the floor with the shut off valve lever on a horizontal plane. The issue is the rear channel brace used for the anti tip mechanism. You can gain a little more clearance by raising the legs and casters. That gives a maximum of maybe an inch more height. If that is not sufficient or if it causes issues due to the counter height I donâÂÂt see any reason why you could not have the gas service fitting in the area above the rear channel brace and anti tip bracket. You can see the position of the gas
fitting in the photo below. I needed to use a 5 foot connector hose to give me enough play so I could climb in behind the range while it was being positioned and manipulate the connector to fit under the range.

The riser fits flush with the side of the stove and is 29 7/8 wide. There is no overhang so it should not affect the fit.

I have the photos in a PDF; if you can get me an e-mail I can get that to you if you'd like. I can't figure out how to attach or copy a PDF to this.

Many thanks! I've changed my preferences so that you should be able to send me an email through GW. A photo would be very helpful! We have changed the electrical, but don't see any way we can bring that gas fitting through the wall to fit in that 2 inch space under the rear channel brace. The specs were just so specific about keeping the gas in that area, and I can't figure out why, as it seems like there are other options for placement. Our fitting alone is 2 inches tall! We have the legs set as low as they will go and can't raise them because of our countertop height.

It seems this thread has moved to a wolf install thread (understandably), but going off the title I'd like to add I'm entertaining the Dacor DRT366 S, and I too am having trouble finding reviews.

Honestly I'd prefer to get a Bluestar or AR, but the budget puts the Dacor in my 'range', pardon the pun ;). So the DRT366 is just a 6 burner rangetop, no oven, I wonder if anyone has experience with it?

Bump up. Anyone with Dacor gas rangetop/range experience? Bueller?

My Mother in law has a 8 year old 36" Dacor. It was like 5900. She loves it and has no problems with it at all. I am in a similar boat as you. I am torn between the Thermador Harmony 30", the Dacor Renaissance 30 and the leader which I think I will buy is the American Range Performer 30. I test drove it and it is pretty amazing. The ove is quite awesome as well. Test driving the Thermador this weekend.

Hi armada and MrMajor - did either of you choose the Dacor? I'm looking at their new all-gas 48" range and would love some input. I'm generally sold on it for a variety of reasons. I'm a little nervous about baking in an all-gas oven, but I think I'll figure it out over time and that it will be worth it for the other advantages the Dacor offers. My only remaining hesitation is the (potential) sound of the cooling fan. No appliance shop near me has an all-gas Dacor range live for me to turn on and listen to how loud that fan is. Curious if you (or anyone) has a gas Dacor range and can give input on the noise level? (Our current oven -- which, granted, is a cheap-o Sears Outlet model purchased simply to get us from the death of our old oven to through the remodel -- sounds like a jet engine taking off... hence my worry!) Thanks.

Somebody please answer about the Dacor ovens!! I love the look of the Dacor 36" all gas range. Yes or No?? Am I the only person who has never heard of American Range?

sarahmlee44

Did you end up getting the Dacor? I am also looking at the 48" gas rangetop. But not much luck on the feed back of a Dacor rangetop.n

Thanks,

I ended up with a Miele--it is fabulous!!! The Dacor used to have lots of problems but i think they have fixed them from what I was told. Good luck!

Thank you GDP

Owlwie Owl, I did end up getting it ... but can't tell you anything yet. It's sitting in my garage at the moment and won't be installed for a few more weeks yet. (At least, I'm hoping a few weeks!) I will let you know when I get it in what I think of it. I'm pretty excited about it, so my fingers are crossed that it's as good as I'm hoping!

sarahmlee44, Thank you.. Finger crossed. :) Waiting to hear from you... What hood you decide to go with?

"GDP

I ended up with a Miele--it is fabulous!!! The Dacor used to have lots of problems but i think they have fixed them from what I was told. Good luck! "

_____

I think the biggest problems were with the Discovery electric ovens. They work on a computer program rather than a thermostat. This in theory is to keep a narrow range of temperature but in practice, the computer program is programmed to have the elements come on and off at a set rate to maintain a particular temperature so it cannot adapt for anything like a large load of cold food or opening the door like when baking cookies. They have improved them but still allow for the oven to drift down by 50 F before the preheat can come back on. They used to allow it to drift by 150F which was actually 200F in the middle of the oven. This is a protective mechanism to keep the preheat from coming on because once the preheat comes on, they recommend that you remove your food until the preheat goes off or you will have "excessive browning". The other side of this is that if you want to raise the temperature, you must increase it by 50F to trigger the preheat ( and remove your food) otherwise it can take a very long time if it does it at all to raise the temperature as it can only oscillate the element to maintain the set temperature. Many electric ovens, working on a thermostat, now only vary 5-10F from the set temperatures. The standard variation for any oven is 25F variation from the set temperature. This is all in the use and care manual.

We got a Vent-A-Hood liner (cabinetmaker constructing custom wood box for it). Haven't tried that out either! But in the showroom it was whisper-quiet.

Wekick, thanks for your heads up.

GDP, I'm torn between a Dacor and Miele 30" all gas. I can't seem to find any reviews of this Miele and I see you say you have one. Can you please opine? Even the Pirch showroom only shows a dual fuel and I could really use some first hand experience. Afraid to buy a first generation appliance before any kinks are worked out, but darn I love the specs and looks of this new Miele. Any feedback would be most appreciated.

Okay...so I am glad you asked. I am going to suggest that you do not buy the Miele.

I have the 36" in my home and it will be leaving shortly. It is a very long story but I will tell you that the outer glass is very breakable on the 1134 model. Two have already broken -one in transit to my home and one at my home. The second one was the fault of my contractor but to have TWO break (SHATTER) it should make you think twice. I also know that Miele has had many issues with this glass and will probably be changing the door shortly.

Having said all that --the range is GORGEOUS and I am very sad to see it go. I have decided to just go with a dependable Viking. The Dacor is very pretty but I am not sure if they have worked out the kinks with their ovens?

I hope this helps.

Helps?? You saved me! Thank you! Actually I heard that they were having glass door issues but I thought they had corrected that recently. Can I ask, we're it not for the glass door, we're you happy with the cook top? And did you hear and feel air coming from the top if the oven door where it is noticeable? I wish I had room for a 36 as it would give me more options but in a 30", I am quite limited. I will look at the Viking again but I have a bar next to the range and it limits my back splash height. I can't go beyond 3" tall and even some island versions have a 3.5"-4" back vent. Your post was so helpful and I appreciate these forums where we may get real time feedback from homeowners/users instead of commissioned sales people.

GDP,

Viking is not dependable at all. You may want to do some research on this.

Good luck!

homepro01 --any specifics

Desantis--Yes absolutely did hear and feel the airflow from the top of the oven door. The cooktop was very powerful but great. And did I mention pretty? LOL

Ok folks--before my Viking gets delivered-what are the problems with it?