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Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Posted by jerzeegirl (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 9:43

I recently bought a Bosch DW 500 series dishwasher.

At some point I noticed that the glasses were filmy and so I checked the filter and it was full of greasy gunk. I cleaned it off and raised the water temperature in the house thinking that maybe the water wasn't hot enough.

There is still gunk forming in the filter and I can't figure out why. This is my second Bosch DW and the first one NEVER had any gunk whatsoever in the filter.

I had Bosch service out to look and he said there was nothing wrong with the installation.

We do not eat particularly greasy stuff, so I haven't a clue what might be causing this and I rinse the dishes (out of habit) before putting them in the dishwasher. Please help my solve this mystery.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Filmy, greasy looking and feeling glasses are a classic sign of too much rinse aid. Is it possible the dosage is set too high or perhaps the reservoir is leaking? I'd have a repair person come back and tell them that's what you suspect.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

The glasses only get slightly filmy (never greasy) when the filter has the gunk in it. If there's no gunk in the filter, then everything's fine.

What really mystifies me is what is producing this gunk? My other Bosch (same model) never did this.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

"What really mystifies me is what is producing this gunk"

Really ?

Where do you think all the food, sauce, fats, bits, and dirt from your dishes go ???

You don't have to eat fried chicken, or jowls, to have fat in your foods. That get sent through the filters of these DWs. That's why all of the manuals have a section on "cleaning the filters". It's just part of the maintenance, like adding rinse aid.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

My old Bosch never had grease in the filter and I haven't changed the way I eat. And like I said, I rinse the plates before putting them in the washer. It looks like the grease used to pack wheel bearings in a car. That ain't right.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

No that isn't right. So are you saying that this "grease" is thick? Is it possible that the dishwasher was installed without the "high loop" and food/grease is backing up from your garbage disposal into the dishwasher?

Just throwing that out there.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

markb: That's actually my theory too, because the guy who did the installation (my contractor) is a boob. But Bosch did come out and looked at the installation and didn't say it was wrong. And it appears to be the "high loop" (which I remembered from the last Bosch I did which was installed for a while without the high loop).

And yes the grease is thick with a yellowish gray color.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Can you post a picture of the installation and an item with the grease on it? This does sound strange.
Homepro01


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Yes, pictures please. Does the dishwasher heat? What detergent are you using? Too much rinse aid will cause foaming and a blue-ish film on glasses but it won't cause chunks of grease in the filter.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

There is absolutely no grease on any of the items in the dishwasher. The grease only ends up in the filter (which is a double basket filter). I first discovered this problem when I noticed the glasses were a little hazy and the dishes had grit on them.Now that I am aware of the problem I clean it regularly. In fact I just cleaned the filter this morning so I will have to wait a few days before I can take a picture of the grease buildup.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl - I think I know what you're talking about.

Around the time our 18-month-old Bosch DW's filter is ready to be cleaned (usually once a month--- we generally run our DW once a day --- use Finish PowerBall Tabs), often the gray plastic frame will have gunk (but not always!) and it is mostly on the top and bottom.

The gunk is greasy and looks almost like some weird, faded residue of Velveeta cheese in color. And we don't eat Velveeta cheese! I have to use Dawn dish detergent on it to cut the stuff and get it clean. It grosses me out.

I figure the filter is clogged and this is the result. But it doesn't happen all the time; just sometimes. Often the water in that reservoir looks milky, too. Dishes are still coming out clean, probably because things haven't gotten too way gunked up.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Cavimum: That's exactly what happens with mine! Velveeta is a good description. Well since my last Bosch (same model but older machine) didn't produce gunk, I'm thinking this is not supposed to happen.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

The culprit is probably all of the recent changes in detergent formulations. You might try a different detergent.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl - My guess is a combination of using less water and the dergents. Our water is not hard (4 grains) but maybe I'll try adding some STPP with the Finish tabs and see what happens.

Mine certainly gets the water hot enough. We can't touch the dishes after a cycle ends, until they have cooled off..


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I believe you are just over thinking this.

I don't think anything is "wrong" with your DW. Don't get fooled into the "my last one never did this trap".

Was it the exact same model, in the same exact place , with the same water supply ( and how would you know if its properties changed), using the same detergent (who's formula also may have changed) ? My point is - there are too many variables in a non controlled environment for you to make an exact comparison.

This gunk happens in a lot of peoples DWs. I have it in several of mine, Bosch and Mieles, and I've seen it on a few Askos around town too. I've seen a miele that was almost totally plugged up with the stuff.

Clean your filters when they get "gunked" up and get back to enjoying life.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

lol, xedos. I do tend to overthink things, but since I have never seen this on any DW I have ever had, it does seem unusual. I would just love to know what chemistry is producing this icky stuff!

In fact, I just came up with another theory (I am never short of theories!).

We have had the plumber out twice now to replace the cartridge in the master bathroom's shower.....four months ago and now yesterday. A part failing in four months is kind of ridiculous....but the plumber said it is being caused by our old water heater.

Apparently there is sludge in the bottom of the water heater that is getting into the pipes and causing this cartridge to fail. Well it stands to reason that if gunk is getting into the shower, then why wouldn't it also get into the DW? I am guessing that as soon as we replace the old water heater, this problem might disappear.

Is this plausible?


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White Residue

Oh, I've discussed that topic at lengh in the German forum. My Bosch did have an issue with milky water as well. In the end, it turned out that it was leftover grease that caused the dirty water in the sump (the part of the dishwahser where the filter is). Finish Quantum, Europe still has the version with phosphate, is the best detergent I have tried so far. I also add a teaspoon of regular washing up liquid onto the door for the prewash.

What is strange, though, is that you get the gunk despite rinsing your dishes. You can fast-forward my video to about 4:50 to see what a poor detergent (in this case Henkel's new Somat Gel Tabs) does to my Bosch. After that load with Somat, I rinsed the filters, placed them in the top rack and ran a cleaning cycle with some citric acid. That returned to dishwasher to is normal, shiny state.

Alex

Here is a link that might be useful: Test: Somat Multi Gel Tabs


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Alex: I did notice the dirty water in the sump. In fact, that's when I knew something was not right. I use Finish with the little pink ball since that what was recommended by Bosch (via a sticky on the top of the dishwasher!) I also use Jet Dry - if I run out the light on the top of the door comes on. That's all I have ever used on this one as well as the previous one. I am going to try that Quantum Finish as soon as I find it in a store. I honestly don't think it's anything that I am doing, but I do see the possibility of the detergent being incorrect.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Those manual clean filters are sooooo nasty. I hope they never stop making traditional American dishwashers with grinders. Give me a little noise over mystery goop any day.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I dont think I have cleaned my filter two times in the years its been installed. No goop in mine. When there is the occasional large food item left over such as seen in the video, after another cleaning cycle those get disolved and gone. I have not even run a dishwasher cleaning solution in my Bosch.....EVER (or my Miele before it) Trust me, if it was nasty in any way I would not be on board.

The big disadvantage to traditional american units is not the extra noise imho, but the inconsistant and inaccurate temperature control because of a lack of a flow thru heater.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzee girl:

One other thing to check -- make sure the drain line is not getting plugged up with stuff. You might want to detach it and run a snake or wire through it and the fitting on your garbage disposal to make sure nothing is plugged in there.

Beyond that, you may need to do more frequent cleaning of the filter plate and basket. I think the screens on the new Bosch units may be finer than on the old ones so stuff cna build up more quickly. A year and a half ago, my 16-y.o. old Bosch died dw and I replaced it with a a 500 series, Like Cavimum, I have found that I have to clean the new unit's filters more often. They seem to trap more of the gunk that the older model just washed down the drain. The old one's filters I would clean every three or four months. I'm cleaning the new one every three of four weeks.

Haven't seen any velveeta-like build up, but I also have to ask: have you turned down the rinse-aid dispenser setting to "1" from what the default factory setting you had it on before? I ran the old one on the mid-range setting, but I noticed a filmy deposit on some glassware when using the default mid-range setting (#4) that mine came out of the box with.

That old (and apparently expiring) water heater could be contributing to the problem and very hard or very soft water may not be helping, either. You might need to replace the rods in the water heater.

I've seen also the symptoms like you describe with a couple of friends' places where they use well water. One had no water conditioner at all and the water was so hard it shattered when dropped on the floor. ;>) The other had a malfunctioning water softener. (Apparently, the watter was way too soft and detergent residues were building up.) IIRC correctly, one had an Asko DW (where cleaning the filter frequently seemed to help) and the other had a GE (no-filter). Adjusting the water hardness seemed to help, at least it did the last time we discussed this. Something else to check.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I have a Miele but I don't have gunk.
I also solved the filter issue - I have an extra one and swap them out. I put the used one in the next DW load - no scrubbing and comes out sparkling clean. Just swap every once in awhile.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Yay. I just got a snapshot of the gunk. Here it is. I cleaned the filter three days ago so it really shouldn't be doing this.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

And here's a picture of the water in the sump. The water is not clear.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Looks bacterial to me. Yuck. What type of detergent are you using?


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Finish Powerball Tabs and Jet Dry (both recommended by Bosch)

I just realized what the gunk looks like - it looks like yeast. But unlike yeast it's greasy and needs Dawn to dissolve.

So maybe it has to do with the temperature of the water. If the water were hotter, this stuff would not be congealing in the filter, right?


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Since you only bought it recently, I'd send these pictures to Bosch.

These dishwashers have non-return valves (a rubber flap) built into the drain line right after the drain pump, so there shouldn't be any water backing up into the dishwasher. Also, the amount of water left in the dishwasher isn't too high from what I can see on the picture. Very bizzare to get so filthy water when you're putting rinsed dishes in the dishwasher to begin with.

It could be the soil sensor choosing a low intensity wash cycle because you're putting rinsed dishes in there and then there isn't enough water in the rinse cycle(s) to flush everything away. Does it happen on every cycle (Normal, Heavy...)?

Could be too much rinse aid, thus the foam residue on the underside of the plastic filter. What's the rinse aid dispenser set to?

Could be that the dishwasher is just malfunctioning and not filling, heating, ... properly.

Alex


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Wow- that is really ugly.
My first thought before reading your post -yeast
I have never seen that either- yuck!
Maybe it is yeast mixed with other gunk
Something is not right as you already know
I would send a picture and get some answers.
In the meantime- what kills yeast?
Good luck!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I would place my bet with whirlpool trainee.

Given the intermittent nature of the problem, I would suspect obstructed drain-line and/or incomplete fill and/or insufficient water-heating. Any/all of these can lead to gunked filter and any/all can be maddeningly intermittent. Thankfully, they are all pretty easy to check/verify. Suggest starting there.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

It takes a month for my filter & gray housing to look like that, velveeta-look gunk (yes, mine looks exactly like that). After three days since last cleaning, I'd say something is not right.

Sometimes one of my hints to check the filter is I will see a dry white residue on the floor of the tub, small amounts in random areas. I don't know what it is, it is dry and powdery, but it is weird. Disappears after I clean the filter & housing.

The owners manual for my 800Plus model tells me the target water heating temp, as well as rinse temp. So the machine would have to heat the already hot water to raise the temp. I use "Auto" cycle 95% of the time, and "Heavy" if I have cruddy casserole dishes the other 5% of the time. Powerball Finish tabs (not Quantum) and Finish rinse aid dispenser set at "1".

jerzeegirl - which cycle do you use most often?

"Apparently there is sludge in the bottom of the water heater that is getting into the pipes and causing this cartridge to fail. "
Water heaters will get build-up of rust, minerals, and gunk. Just look into the tank behind the toilet and you'll see a similar coating on the porcelain, especially near the bottom.

It's a good idea to flush the water heater annually. Of course, I forget . . . but it does help the WH remain efficient.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

My Dh flushed the water heater on Friday and a fair amount of sand came out of it so we know that had to be done! But what came out of the water heater was sandy not greasy so I don't know if there's a correlation.

whirlpool trainee: The water in the sump is what I find puzzling. Why is it so murky? Shouldn't it drain away and be replaced by fresh water? Shouldn't all the detergents be flushed away once the DW rinses? I am going to try sending the thread to Bosch to see what they say.

Cavimum: I always use the Normal cycle. The granite above the DW seems pretty hot when the DW is on so I know it's heating.

OKay, here's something I will throw out there....we do brew beer. The DW is used to sanitize the bottles (with bleach, of course). Is it possible that wild yeasts might be somehow infecting the tub? I don't see that could happen because the water is hot and the detergent (and bleach) should kill anything like that. But it does look yeasty.

Here's what's really weird to me - many people have complained about how bad their Bosch DW smells. This one always smells good!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Don't know which Bosch you have (all the current 500 models have the new wave-shaped filter) but the Normal cycle often has soil-sensing capablities. I wonder if it could be that, since you put rinsed dishes in there but use a full dose of detergent, the dishwasher doesn't rinse enough to get all the detergent out - because it adjusted the cycle for light soil in the first place. The Normal cycle is also often programmed to be especially frugal.

I actually don't think you have yeast growing in there. If you are using finish, which already has rinse aid (surfactants) in it, and add more rinse aid (surfactants) in the final rinse, you can get excessive suds. It really looks like the white stuff clinging to the filter are suds - could be wrong, though.

I'll attach a picture of the builder's garde dishwasher that came with the kitchen when we moved in. It was a true piece of sh!t dishwasher with piece of sh!t programming. It went from the detergent wash straight to the final rinse with no rinse in between like all dishwashers should do. You can see how milky and still somewhat sudsy the water in the final rinse is.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

WT: That is kind of gross! The inside of mine always gleams after a wash and the only water is what's in the sump (which is why I assume that draining is not an issue.

I hope Bosch will respond soon. I will post their take on the situation if they respond.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl - I only used the Normal cycle once and dishes weren't all that clean. I figure it's like the Normal cycle on my washer & dryer.... just the bare minimum to meet the EPA requirements.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I always use "Normal" - actually, just last night I asked my DH if he knows what the "Auto" cycle is (what is it?). My dishes and inside of dishwasher come out sparkling clean (Finish Powerball Tabs (not Quantum), Rinseaid on I have no idea what setting - whatever it came with. This is just weird and not necessarily a dishwasher issue (seems more like a drainage issue to me).


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

The Auto cycle senses the amount of soil and dishes and adjusts the cycle accordingly - more/less water, heat and time. Because many people, however, just press Normal, the Normal cyle has similar sensing built into it like Auto. It's just not quite as flexible.

jerzeegirl: it was gross. I always had to run two cycles. One with detergent that I cancelled before the drying cycle and another one to rinse the dishes. Whoever made this dishwasher should be forced to live with it.

Alex


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

This happen to mine too. My gunk is very yellow, like melted cheddar cheese. I pull it out and just wash it and it comes right off. Use finish power balls and finish rinse aid. It really doesn't bother me to clean it but if there is an answer to this I'd like to know.

The dishes are usually sparkling clean and I use auto clean with sanitize. Our hot water heaters are new and set fairly high.

OP, you should not be rinsing the dishes first.

I wanted to add that I had my DW several months before I realized that the metal screen (filter) came out. Pull that out and that is where you find the gunk. tyguy, do you take that part out and look at it?

This post was edited by debrak2008 on Mon, Feb 10, 14 at 14:51


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

We have a Bosch 500 series DW and use it almost exclusively on Auto. We don't have the above problem, only occasionally there is a weird smell we notice that we attribute to RinseAid overuse.

You mentioned you brew beer and have yeast in there, right? - this might be your culprit. Yeast can grow very quickly during the initial cycles when your temperature is not hot enough. Yeah, they maybe dead at the end of your wash cycle, its just there's a lot of them. Pre-rinse yeast containing utensils with bleach and see how it goes.

The residual water in the sump (and it is my theory!) is due to condensation drying method used in Bosch. Once the water condenses onto the walls of the tub at the end of the cycle when everything is still steaming hot, it makes its way to a collector and sits there. You noticed, I am sure, that after drying cycle is over - there is no pump activity, your red light will just go out indicating the end of the cycle. Also - if you have run dishwasher empty - you won't have that water in the sump, at least not that much. If you look in your manual, there is a shutdown procedure - by simultaneous pressing of a combination of buttons you can empty that pooled water if you plan to not use the dishwasher for some time to reduce risk of contamination.

good luck.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Last night I tried it on Automatic and this is what I saw this morning. It looks like watery peanut butter (or like Velveeta as others described it). This happened in one wash. The stuff was in the outer and inner filters. It was clean yesterday!

No word from Bosch yet.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Debrak: yup I check the inside of the filter.....never much there. I always use auto plus which sanitizes, so possibly the extreme hot water flushes all of that away.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

In case anyone is interested....last night I used a different detergent as Hollysprings suggested above. I used Cascade Powder with Dawn. The dishes and glasses came out sparkling and there was no gunk in the filter this morning. I am going to keep on using the Cascade for a week which should give enough time for either grease to build up in the filter or for the mystery to be solved!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl, Please keep us posted. I have always used Finish power balls as it was recommended.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

If it works, then stay with it. I had some Cascade powder from previous DW, used it in the new Bosch, and had sudsing "out the wazoo", and there were suds left on floor of DW tub after the cycle finished.

For that reason, I'm staying with the Finish brand, for now. PLEASE keep us posted on the gunk. I might try a newer formulation of Cascade if you have continued success.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Cavimum, just curious why you want to change to Cascade. I'm using Finish Powerballs and they're working great (so far).


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I live in a soft water area and yes I also get filter buildup but not in just a few days and my sump water is clear-[Fisher-Paykel DishDrawers]. In traditional American style DW's there is also build up but you just don't see it since it is in the pump sump area under the floor along with whitish mineral like deposits. I have replaced a couple of leaky rubber pump sumps and found this each time-a bit gross. The good news with a Euro filter style machine the gunk collects at the water line level in the fllter and you can easily check and clean as needed-albeit a little awkward reaching it. BUT, your situation after 1-3 days, something is interacting badly and not as designed. Does your water utility change its source in winter? I hope you are able to send your photos to Bosch for their opinion and solution and please advise us all here.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

sjhockeyfan - Am considering Cascade since jerzeegirl didn't have the mystery cheese-looking gunk after using it. Perhaps Cascade has an ingredient that deals better with *not* leaving the cheesy gunk. The newer formula might not suds up like the old box of Cascade powder I had on hand. There is a six-month supply of Finish Powerball Tabs on hand in the pantry, so I won't be able to experiment for a while. I might even have to give the Finish Quantum a try. I think it has more enzymes than the Powerball version, but is more expensive, which is why I do not use it.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I might even have to give the Finish Quantum a try. I think it has more enzymes than the Powerball version

You can check the ingredients of Renkitt Benkiser products on:

Here is a link that might be useful: RB North America Info


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Day 2 of experiment using Cascade.

The glasses and dishes are sparkling.

The water in the sump is clear.

There is no cheesy looking gunk whatsoever in the filter, although I did notice a very subtle layer of grit particles on only one side of the outer basket of the filter. It almost looked as if some detergent did not get dissolved.

I will use Cascade for a week to see if it solves the cheesy gunk problem; if the problem seems solved, then I will switch back to Finish to see if the gunk comes back.

I feel like I should be wearing a lab coat, lol.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

if the problem seems solved, then I will switch back to Finish to see if the gunk comes back

that would be really helpful to those of us who use Finish. In the meantime, glad the disgusting gunk is gone!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Thank you so much for keeping us updated!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl - Please keep us updated on the results. Perhaps the Cascade is working better with your local water quality, etc.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Day 3 using Cascade: No gunk. Dishes and glasses sparkling. Sump water clear. A tiny bit of grit on one side of the filter which easily rinses off.

I just wanted to share this about Finish which I found online when doing research about the problem. There are others who are having issues although not exactly the same issue that I had.

Here is a link that might be useful: linky


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl: I read a lot of posts in the link you posted and it seems that a lot of problem with Finish Powerballs comes from the wrapper not truly dissolving in the wash cycle. I used to get large round cans of them at Costco and we never had a problem. But we never knew that you could put them in the dispenser with the film cover on them. We always tore them open and discarded the covers before putting the speckled bar with the pink spot into the dispenser and closing its door. I wonder if all the problem is coming from trying to use them in their covers. If so, the problem is easily solved. I am now using the Cascade tabs we got at Costco which we leave in the plastic film as instructed. They work well but no better than the powerball Finish tabs we used to use. Of course we have a 13 year old Maytag that uses a lot of water, has a heating element in the bottom and we turn on every heat switch it has. It uses hot water and heats it more if needed before starting the first rinse and wash cycles.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

nerdyshopper: We always took the Finish Powerballs out of the wrapper. I didn't even know you could keep them in the wrapper!

The Cascade I am using is the powder stuff given to us by our neighbor who bought it by mistake.

And just so everyone knows - I had another day of sparkling dishes and glasses! No gunk in the filter. Clear water in the sump.

I did get a response today from Bosch. Here are their suggestions:

In regards to your inquiry, we definitely have a few suggestions which may address the issues you are experiencing with the cleaning capabilities of your dishwasher.

· 1st, have you been cleaning your filter regularly? You definitely want to regularly clean your filter (located in the base of the tub), the amount of times you clean it will vary on your actual usage.

· 2nd, have you been running the monthly recommended dishwasher cleaner? There is a product called Finish dishwasher cleaner, we recommend running one in your appliance once a month for regular maintenance.

· 3rd, are you cleaning your spray arms? Please make sure to check and keep the spray arms clean. If there is debris blacking the small openings you will definitely notice the lack of performance.

Last but not least, are you using the recommended detergent? After rigorous testing we here at Bosch found the Finish brand works best in our dishwashers. If you are using a gel or liquid based detergent we ask that you try to switch it out for a tablet or if need be a loose powder as gel and liquid based products are known regardless of brand to be the poorest performing products.

I am going to use the Cascade for a few more days, then switch back to the Finish to see if the gunk starts building up again. I feel bad about the Finish because I have used it for many years but the dishes really look much better using Cascade!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

The Powerball All in One tab wrappers are supposed to be removed. The Powerball Quantum tabs have the clear dissolving cover. Having two versions of Powerball tabs makes this confusing.

So...... for clarification, we mainly use the All In One type and get the cheesy gunk.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I definitely use the All in One and I remove the wrapper. Do you think it could be the little Powerball that is causing the problem?


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl - I think I read, somewhere, that the red ball in the center has the enzymes.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

cavimum:

I have been using the Cascade powder for about a week and the gunk is no longer forming and the sump water is clear. The dishes and glasses are clean and sparkly.

This leads me to conclude that there is something about the Powerball tabs that is causing the gunk to form - maybe it's those enzymes reacting with something in the water. I know I said I'd go back to the Finish to complete the experiment but now that my dishes are getting really clean, I really don't want to, lol!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I just read on another forum that Bosch used to recommend Cascade but apparently in the last few years switched to Finish. I have a lot of finish power balls so I think I'm going to wait until I finish the box and then try cascade.

Are we talking about cascade in the powder form or those little plasticy packets? I have read several places that those plasticy packets can gum up all dws.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Wow. I have a Bosch 300 series and am thanking my lucky stars I don't have the cheesy gunk problem. I don't think I could tolerate the grossness factor.

Jerzeegirl, you are my kinda gal, with your experimentation and powers of observation. You do indeed deserve a lab coat!!!

I have several kinds of detergents: Cascade swirly bundles that Costco sells (sold?) in bulk, Finish Quantum in the "plastic," and Powerballs in little candy wrappers with no plastic.

My DW came with a supply of Quantum but the installer said the Cascade would be fine. I've often wondered what happens to the outer "plastic" wrapper.

JG, I hope your switching to Cascade is the end of the gunk for you. I could not abide having that stuff.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

jerzeegirl - I have a similar problem with my 2 yr old Bosch dishwasher. Actually I have to wash my filter after each use and it looks exactly as yours each time. And I prerinse my dishes (which is a pain). My dishes for the most part come out clean - the odd one might have some debris stuck to it.

I am debating calling a plumber to check my installation. But honestly am ready to throw my DW in the garbage.

I will try the Cascade like you did even though I know Bosch recommends FInish.

Keep us posted on your findings!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I get some cheesy gunk at the top of my 5 month old bosch 300 filter but only once every few cycles and it's not heavy. Using finish powerballs.

This post was edited by goldenguy on Tue, Mar 4, 14 at 13:02


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Since my last post, I have been checking our filter for the mystery cheesy gunk after every wash cycle which is pretty much daily. I have also been using only the Finish "Quantum" tabs since then, too. There has been no mystery gunk in the filter, at all!

I have used the "Auto" cycle every time, and have not engaged the "Heavy" cycle. No other options are used.

So, + I wonder if my candy-wrapper Finish "All-in-One" tabs weren't up to the job, or if it is a matter of the cycle I used.

Seems like the last time I got the mystery cheesy gunk, I vaguely remember having a lot of stuff in there + cruddy
pots, etc., and I used the "Heavy" cycle.

When I use the "Heavy" cycle, perhaps I should add some powder detergent to make up for the extra water it uses? Stay tuned! The experiment continues! Sooner or later I'll have one of those big "heavy" loads to wash...

Update --- when all else fails, read the owners manual. (duh) It has dosing amounts for the cycle options and the "Heavy" calls for almost twice as much detergent. I will continue to observe the filter and pay attention to cycles. This might be why our DW had the cheesy mystery gunk. One Finish tab for a "Heavy" cycle is not enough in many cases.

This post was edited by Cavimum on Fri, Mar 7, 14 at 11:56


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I always did use cascade powder, not to much. After DW detergents changed I was hesitant to change since I had clean dishes and no DW problems. I haven't changed & continue with small amt of cascade powder and never had a problem. Clean dishes, clean drain , knock on wood. I do open the DW about 1 inch for drying and don't use jet dry.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I just wanted to followup for anyone that is still interested. I have not had ANY cheesy gunk since I started using Cascade powder over a month ago!

And the dishes and glasses are coming out clean and sparkling. I guess I can declare the experiment over for me, but I am still interested in hearing others' experience who have the gunk problem. .


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

When I use the "Heavy" cycle, perhaps I should add some powder detergent to make up for the extra water it uses? Stay tuned! The experiment continues! Sooner or later I'll have one of those big "heavy" loads to wash...

Update --- when all else fails, read the owners manual. (duh) It has dosing amounts for the cycle options and the "Heavy" calls for almost twice as much detergent. I will continue to observe the filter and pay attention to cycles. This might be why our DW had the cheesy mystery gunk. One Finish tab for a "Heavy" cycle is not enough in many cases.

Dosage is based primarily on soil level. More detergent is directed for the Heavy cycle on the assumption that the soil level is greater, AND that the cycle has more than one wash period.

Each fill for each wash or rinse period is likely the same volume of water. A cycle that uses more water has more water changes ... i.e. a prewash, rinse, main wash, more rinses ... as compared to a lighter cycle that may start with a prerinse, then one wash, and a couple more rinses ... or a very light cycle that runs only a wash and a couple rinses.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

My update ....

I had a "Heavy" cycle last week. For the sake of experimentation, I used one candy-wrapper Finish powerball All-in-One tab ~and~ added extra powdered detergent. I had the mystery cheesy looking stuff on the filter! I couldn't believe it. The filter has been checked after every cycle, so I know it was clean before starting this cycle.

The Finish Quantum tabs, so far, have not left any cheesy gunk on the filter. Although slightly more expensive, the Quantum might be the detergent best suited for our machine and water quality.

I will post if there are any more updates.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Cavimum: It was the FInish Powerball that caused my problem too so it doesn't surprise me that it's causing yours! There is something in the formula that is causing some kind of chemical reaction that is producing cheese! How weird.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

" There is something in the formula that is causing some kind of chemical reaction that is producing cheese! "

jerzeegirl - Either that, or it is just not up to the job in our respective water quality. Maybe this is why my old DW wasn't cleaning so well?

Last night, I ran a medium-to-small load and used a Finish Powerball all-in-one (candy-wrapper) with Auto cycle. Nothing greasy on the dishes or pots. Dishes were all spotless. No visible cheesy gunk on filter, but it was greasy. I had to wash it off my hand. Eeew! I'm going to stick with the Quantum formula.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

For a number of reasons, not the least of which is "too much detergent" and Eco waste, we don't use power balls and pre formed dishwasher tabs. Have used cascade powder for years in 25 year old Asko, and two Bosch (3 and 7 years old)... Multiple homes in the family where we design our kitchens and are similar in our practices. A small level tsp of cascade does it.
We clean the traps once a month. Once I while I run the DW with vinegar
We use short cycle and air dry our stuff. We don't totally rinse clean before loading because soap formulations are designed to cling and grab food. Totally clean loading leads to more scratching (really. There are a couple of NYT articles on this about 4 years back).


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I have exactly this same problem! Greasy velveeta like gunk. Did you get it fixed?


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Copied here in case you can't find it above

Posted by jerzeegirl (My Page) on
Sun, Mar 16, 14 at 0:12

I just wanted to followup for anyone that is still interested. I have not had ANY cheesy gunk since I started using Cascade powder over a month ago!

And the dishes and glasses are coming out clean and sparkling. I guess I can declare the experiment over for me, but I am still interested in hearing others' experience who have the gunk problem. .


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

As I posted earlier in this thread, I was using finish powerball. I have sinced switched to regular cascade. There is now just a slight trace of the greasy cheese stuff in the filter. I do think however in general that the cascade doesn't clean as well.

I may try the other versions of Cascade and maybe finish quantum.

hermy229, don't leave the site. You just reminded us of how different we all "see" this forum. Sometimes some will post about a viewing issue and others will say they are not having any issue. Some see ads, others not. Some say they see certain colors, others see different ones. Everyone's experience is different especially now that people are viewing these forums on different types of devices.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

First, I use the recommended Finish detergent & rinse aid. I have followed the manufacturers instructions on all counts. I have a Bosch DW that I bought 3 yrs ago and am finding the same black, gunky, greasy goop in the bottom of my drain. I noticed black streaks on my dishes. Luckily I also purchased a 4 yr extended warranty. Problem solved, had a repairman out today. The seal is faulty and is disintegrating. Whatever material the seal is made of (synthetic materials, petroleum, polymers, etc?), it is unable to break down in the dishwasher thus causing a black gunky mess. My major concern are health issues. It can't be good to ingest these petrol particulates that leaves its residue on my dishware :(

This post was edited by LenSan2104 on Thu, May 1, 14 at 14:53


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

And I am still using (and have always only used) Finish Powerball (not Quantum) and have no such problem - so I think it must be the combination of detergent and your particular water that causes some to have the problem and some not.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

As long as I use the Finish Quantum tabs, I do not have the mystery cheese-like gunk on the filter. Ever.

We still have hundreds of the All-In-One powerball tabs, so I still use them in order to use them up. Sometimes the filter is okay after using an All-In-One tab, but mostly there will be mystery gunk on the filter. Go figure.

The Quantum tabs formula works best on our DW for reasons we will never understand. Life is full of mysteries...


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Here's a Cascade/Finish powder/tab question. I have the Bosch SHV68TL3UC and when I first got it, I continued using my old detergent: Palmolive Eco gel. Dishwasher started to smell, so I switched to Finish Powerball. The smell went away, but my mugs immediately started fading. These were mugs I'd been putting in the dishwasher for years. Bosch says it's a Finish problem; Finish says it's a Bosch problem. I switched to Cascade Complete powder and another mug faded, so now I'm thinking it's the powder and my NYC soft water. Anybody have any ideas? Could I use a different gel, like Cascade or Finish do you think?


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

>>>>We still have hundreds of the All-In-One powerball tabs, so I still use them in order to use them up. Sometimes the filter is okay after using an All-In-One tab, but mostly there will be mystery gunk on the filter. Go figure.

Sounds like a bad choice. Since you know that they cause a problem, just write them off and throw them away. If you had a large number of cans of tainted food, you wouldn't keep eating them just to use them up, would you?


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

@weissman - I know, I know .... I will give them away to someone who doesn't have a filter in their DW before I would throw them away. Just too frugal...


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

joeycorp- since you have Cascade Complete powder now I would try reducing the amount per use, your Bosch probably uses less water per fill than your old machine resulting in a stronger solution and with soft water too strong. There is a chance of further pattern fading of affected dishes even with smaller dosing now-at least in my experience after once running dishes along with stove hood fan filters on the heavy high temp cycle with lots of detergent and my soft water. I think a whole tab is too much with low water fill modern DW'S and soft water, with a powder I now try to use only a teaspoon, of course if I actually USED a measuring spoon I could be accurate.


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I filled to just under the low line, so not very much at all. But do you mean that if the mug went through once with the too strong tab it's now compromised in some way and will continue to fade regardless? I'm considering seeing if my contractor can finesse a swap with a GE Profile. I don't love the Bosch, though it does get the dishes clean. I'd rather use gel and not have to deal with the rinse aid. I feel like I've spent a fortune on dishwasher detergent since I got it!


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

A dishwasher does not cause dishes to fade.
A d/w fills, with water,
Circulates the water,
heats the water,
and drains the water.

The acids/ chemicals (detergents) you put into a dishwasher can fade colors or designs, etch glassware, etc..


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

Yes, the detergent is what will cause things to fade and many have bleach in them for cleaning and sanitizing.

I have 2 Bosch (Thermador) DWs. I started off using Cascade because I had been using it in my old DW and I think they recommended it at the time. I found the tabs were too much and left a residual scent on the dishes. Switched to Up and Up gel from Target but recently tired OxyClean DW detergent and really like it. I use half a cup or little less (DW detergent cup, not measuring cup -- maybe a Tablespoon?) and use a rinse aid in the dispenser. Have never been happier with the cleaning of any DW, even when DH loads it weirdly.

I have never had the mystery gunk, so I don't know if the OxyClean would help, but since I've used Oxyclean to soak pans with burned on residue, I know it really breaks things down well. If Cascade is working for you, I'd stick with it, but for anyone it doesn't work for, wanted to mention that OxyClean is really working well for me.

This post was edited by lascatx on Tue, May 6, 14 at 13:13


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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Gunk Mystery

I love oxyclean for laundry. I can soak something over night and the stain will be gone. I just got a coupon for oxyclean dw detergent. Maybe I will try it.


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