Gardengr166 - Thanks for the post, it was good to hear. Space is definitely a big consideration and I like the size of the Miele as well. I forgot to ask, but I am interested in any of these can toast well. Is it possible to toast bread in the Miele? And can you help me understand the difference between the Chef and MasterChef? I know the MasterChef has a probe and the navitronic menu, but other than that, is the Chef just as easy for a novice like myself and my family to use?

There may be other threads on this, here. Briefly, I think the consensus was its best to keep your old toaster (mine's plugged in, in the pantry) although at least some of these speed ovens can make toast, after a fashion. Search below for more on this, and Chef / Master Chef differences.

Master Chef has the programmed menu stuff, and lacks knobs; presumably programmed cooking would be easier than telling the oven exactly what to do (you can just tell it to cook a given weight of fish, or whatever, and it beeps when its done). That's the most significant difference vs. the cheaper Chef model; I forget if the Chef has an element below (useful for pizza).

BTW, Electrolux makes a speed oven, which may be worth considering as well. I'd shy away from a 120 V Advantium, due to reliability and speed issues -- obviously its slower than a 240v model. Not sure Advantium wants to be mounted undercounter.

FWIW, I ended up with a Master Chef (it fit better in our small kitchen), and like it fine.

A speed oven isn't the same thing as a convection/microwave. The speed program uses a combination of all inputs to achieve a finished dish in a fraction of the time which is cooked thoroughly, rather than "zapped". I have an Advantium 240, which suits my purposes, but I think the speed cooked foods are mostly still too zappedish, but if I were trying to get wholesome food down the throats of teenage scavengers after a hard day at work, I would love it as much as others do. It might not be the best ever roast chicken, but it's a roasted chicken in half an hour.

The Advantium is more microwavish than the Miele, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the speed cooked chicken out of the Miele was better. I also think if I had more sticktoitivity to beat the programs on the Advantium, I could improve the product without a significant loss of time.

Only the 110 V Advantium is approved for under counter installation, and that is significantly slower.

If you're more interested in having one unit do either microwave or convection cooking, that makes your comparisons more equal. I haven't looked at the convection/microwaves for a few years, and they're probably improving constantly. It used to be that they were basically microwaves. I believe that at least some of them used the microwave generator to heat up the air for the convection part. I know many people IRL who absolutely hate these and feel they don't do a good job as ovens at all. I do like the oven mode on the Advantium well enough. It works as well as my Gaggenau convection only oven, plus has the ability to do top browning (halogen) if you use a speed cook combination. If I understand right, there's an actual heating element in the floor that heats the air for the convection. You can power that independently in speed cook mode, but not in oven mode, as far as I can tell.

The Miele, and I think the Elux, works like a regular oven with microwave added. I'm pretty sure it has a broiler, bake element, etc. Several years ago the concensus here was that the Miele speed oven baked better and the Advantium microwaved better. That's at least one model ago, however.

I believe (from what owners have said) that the Miele makes adequate toast. The Advantium makes terrible toast that is dried out and not very toasty. It makes okay cheese toast on a Speed setting, however. If you like toast from an oven, the Miele should be okay. If you prefer toaster toast, you might want to hang onto that toaster, as Chac_Mool said.

For choosing between Chef and Master Chef, if you're going with a speed oven (which isn't all that intuitive to use), your best bet would be to read through the manuals and see which suits you better. You can find them on the Miele website.

As C_M said, do also check out the Electrolux.

I have the Miele Chef and find it to be very versatile and easy to use. I have it undercounter. We use it as a MW several times every day and as an oven several times a week. It is a great companion oven to the main oven in the gas range.

Had considered the Advantium 240 but it is not approved for undercounted installation.

I too have Miele Chef mounted undercounter. This is my favorite appliance in the kitchen. I kept my trusty decade old cobalt Viking all gas range that I love for sentimental reasons. I also wanted to keep the gas oven for its infrared broiler. When (and if) my Viking dies, I will probably replace it with a Bluestar range (?)
I wanted a second oven for the kitchen but did not want to lose the wall space. I opted for a Miele Chef mounted undercounter. I got a deal and paid about 1500 and was not willing to splurge on the Master Chef.

It functions as a 'good' capacity oven except for the largest of pans. You can put jelly roll pans directly on the little lips on the side without using the rack. I bake 2 sheets of cookies at once. If I had a third sheet, I would bake the third sheet :) I suggest that you either bring your jelly roll pans and see if they work or buy the pans that fit. This really gives you flexibility.

Right now, I have the Viking going because I am roasting two chickens at once and I am using my larger roasting pan to roast 2 chickens. My smaller turkey roasting pan fits in the Miele (to give you a reference point) but the larger one does not.

I too looked at 240V Advantium and Electrolux speed ovens and could not install them undercounter. That was a deal breaker for me.

On a MW/bake function (speed function), 4 baked potatoes take about 30 minutes. It is much faster than standard baking but I don't think it is 1/4 of the time either.... In my experience, it is about 1/2 of the standard time.

We're looking to put a Miele Chef 4044 in build-in cabinets but not over an oven or anything.

There will be a 24" TV over it. also with cabinets build around it.

Miele offers a 30" Trim kit to make things even out if you put it over a standard 30" oven.

Does any1 have a picture of their build-in Miele Chef 4044 WITHOUT the trim kit?

Would appreciate some visual references.

Thanks!

With apologies for bumping the old thread ....

I'm not totally following the discussion about over-counter / under-counter approved installations. Could someone please fill me in?

For some reason, not all speed ovens are approved for undercounter installation. Not sure why that is. The Advantium 240 is not approved for undercounter installation. That is one reason we went with the Miele Chef. We needed to install undercounter. Not sure about the Electrolux or the others.

Thanks nycbluedevil. Do you know if this true of any standard convection ovens and/or convection-steam ovens?

120V 30"w Advantium only one approved for undercounter installation. However, GE is currently introducing a new line of combo full size convection/conventional ovens with a smaller Advantium above it, with a single control panel on the top controlling everything. These will look like similarly-configured units from other brands, be sold in 27" and 30" widths, in Profile and Cafe styling, and in 120 and 240 volts.

^Those look nice, unfortunately although they are to be connected to a 240V circuit, the Advantium part of them will only run as 120V. If you want a 240V Advantium you need to stack it over a single wall oven separately.

I've read that both 120 and 240v configurations will be available (see link below). It seems silly to me to have the Advantium portion run only on 120v given that 240V service is already required by the big oven, although I suppose retrofits for oven/microwave combo units drove the decision to offer a 120v Advantium version.

Also, the Electrolux buyout could mean some of the planned GE appliances don't make it to market, given Electrolux already has a combo unit like this and they wouldn't want to make two similar units that don't have interchangable parts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Advantium combo wall ovens

The 120V Advantium version is already available, but if you click on the "Reviews/Q&A" tab someone asked if there will be a 240V unit and GE responded that they had no plans to offer one. I think that was probably just a mistake on Cnet's part (why is a consumer electronics site writing about appliances anyway);

Here is a link that might be useful: PT9800SHSS

As much as I like my Electrolux Speed Oven, It CAN NOT be mounted below counter. I have no idea why, as the door does not get hot or anything, but according to Electrolux, under counter installation is a "NO NO"!

Gary

> I think that was probably just a mistake on Cnet's part (why is a consumer electronics site writing about appliances anyway)

Modern appliances are loaded with electronics, which is why comsumer-electronics companies like LG and Samsung have moved heavily into the appliance market. Some appliances, including some GE ovens, can be monitored and controlled by smartphone apps.

Looking at GE's press release it indeed looks like they will only offer the combo oven/Advantium in a 120V version, and probably only 30" wide although it doesn't explicitly say that. It does allude to the new model being intended for remodelers replacing competitor's oven/microwave combo units, which use only 120V/15A for the microwave. The cutout opening would usually be too short to accomodate a separate Advantium over a single wall oven, but the combo unit is shorter since it needs only one control panel for both ovens.

The press release does say they'll be available with both Profile and Cafe styling; thusfar only the Profile is on the main GE website. The Cafe would be the first Cafe-series Advantium to be available in a wall oven of any sort; until now only an over-the-cooktop model was offered in the Cafe line. Both models will list for $3,999 and assumedly have the same features.