thanks kashmi! looks great!

we ordered our 7ER (bar handle) on saturday and will take delivery on it later this week. we're looking forward to it!

I want to thank everyone for the input. It has been really helpful. The Bosch racks are really not all that different from the ones I have (and many thanks for the pics to help with that). Other than disagreeing with my husband about the best way to load them (which we resolved without bloodshed), they haven't been a problem.

Derek87, I hope you will let us know how you like it once you get it running.

@hillop: definitely. funny thing, i realized that with our frantic schedule, i wont' be able to give our dishwasher a good workout with some heavily soiled dishes for the first several days we have it because we have lots of things taking us away from full blown cooking. but i'll keep you guys posted. i plan to put it to the test and hope it succeeds with a combo of Powerball tabs and the miele salt the dealer gave me.

Well, there is one question that no one seems to know the answer to: Is there any difference between the racks listed as VarioFlex in the 8ER and those listed as Vario in the 7ER? The answer to that could mean a several hundred dollar saving if the 7ER is just as sturdy.

nerdy, as i suggested above and in the other Bosch 800plus thread, the difference in racks between the 8ER and 7ER, to my inspection is more flexible/fold down tines. i could not detect a difference in basket rigidity between the two. for the rebate which ends today, there is a $180 difference between the two models which buys one that small difference in foldable tines on the middle rack, 2 db quietness, the glass cycle and eco mode. while $180 might be worth it to some, in the end, we couldn't justify the cost.

i did not look at the 9ER at all since i knew it was well out of range of what we wanted to spend. and if we considered that, i'm sure we woud have looked at some Miele's as well (with water softeners which start in the 1600 range)

We bought two high-end Bosch dishwashers when we remodeled the kitchen, which I regret. I hate the racks, hate them. In particular, glasses don't fit well. One reason we added a second dishwasher was to clean up after dinner parties. But stemware fits so poorly, I have to run multiple, half-empty loads. The bottom racks has such a big grid that I couldn't use it for glassware until I wired in some small metal racks (the kind for cooling cookies, etc.). The units clean fine, and I like the natural drying, but I would not buy them again.

Seabird66: have you tried moving that middle rack down? It will shift down to one of two lower positions. Until we did that wine glasses would not fit because the stems knocked into the top cutlery rack. Once we did that, wine glasses (both ones with longer and with shorter stems) fit just fine.

In July 2016 I purchased a new Bosch dishwasher. I was told at Sears that Bosch has made improvements on the 2016 models. Am wondering why after all the trouble with the lower rack falling out, they have not done something about it. I see you can buy replacement racks for $139.00 but who is to say it won't be the same. This is a brand new machine.

I just got a Bosch Ascenta SHE3AR72UC dishwasher. It cleans well, and is quiet. But then I bought new dishes. They're rather heavy stoneware, but not extreme. I have to put the plates in every other slot, otherwise they crash into each other - and I don't want to break my new dishes! Can't believe it's that hard to design a slot to keep a plate stable. The section of the bottom designed for bowls allows the bowls to crash into the plates, to which it is perpendicularly oriented. So I have to separate them with a plastic cutting board every time. And the bowls have to be placed in every other slot, too. On the top section, there's another section for bowls but, if used for that, you can't use the rows on either side for glasses. The top has about 3-4 different style rows, none of which works well for anything I own. So very space inefficient. Can't imagine my kitchenware is that unique, wishing I could replace these lousy racks.

I have a new Bosch Benchmark and the old DW is a Thermador -- which is a Bosch for all intents and purposes and they were even more aloke then than they were when I bought it). The racks are so different between them -- they keep changing them. We took a few dishes to try in them, but without loading a few full loads, you really can't tell how it is going to work. I have loaded this new one and thought I got a lot in it and then got so frustrated the other day because it wasn't working the way I wanted it to.

Even going between two of the same make, it just takes time to figure out how to best use the space and racks. Now, one of the reasons I went with the Benchmarks was for the racking otions. I have more folding tines, three heights on the upper rack and the flex sides that can go up or down on the third rack. It's possible those options just extend my learning curve, but I wouldn't give up the options.

Cherylann, I don't know of your model has the same tines spacing as mine, but each section of the lower rack seems t be a little different. Try all of them. I wish my cereal bowls would fit above. The fruit/dessert bowls do, but I haven't figured out a ay to put the bowls on top without basically laying them flat and taking up a lot of room. We have a lot of cups and glasses most of the time, so that won't happen often. Keep working at it. Hope it gets better for you.

In case anyone at Bosh finds this, why don't you make a truly versatile rack -- all those folding tines and cup holders clip onto the rack. Make modular pieces that allow you to customize the rack for your dishes (narrow, medium or thick/coupe) and eve load to load. And if you really want to make it great, figure out a way to put a storage drawer underneath for thoses extra parts. Callenge on!

The racks on this model are so cheap! I would never buy another one of these. If you fill the rack at all, it sags in the middle,causing the lower sprayer arm to hit the rack. They could easily fix this by increasing the wheel size or adding a little height to the rails. Probably the most expensive option would be to put better, thicker, metal in the racks so they don't sag. The advice from customer service--put fewer dishes in there at a time.

I have none of the problems with my Bosch that others seem to be having - no sagging, no issues with the bottom rack falling out, etc. I have an 800+ series. I've had it for over two years now and really like it - it's the best at cleaning of all DWs I've ever had and very quiet.

.

"...I wish my cereal bowls would fit above. The fruit/dessert bowls do, but I haven't figured out a ay to put the bowls on top without basically laying them flat and taking up a lot of room..."

Do you mean the middle rack? If you want to put cereal bowls in the middle rack, lower the middle rack and the bowls fit fine "standing up".

...that's if the middle rack is adjustable in the Benchmark...

Wow, we have and old Maytag dishwasher and I have been expecting it to give out any time. I was most enthusiastic about Bosch but after reading this thread, I think fit may be more important than features. Maybe just get a cheap dishwasher that cleans well. We can fit anything in the Maytag. I like the old clock timer. They still have those on the cheapest dishwashers. Maybe the only thing wrong with dishwashers is how they engineer the new government regulations in.

I agree that fit is very important (more than "features" for me), but the no. 1 issue is ability to get your items clean, and the Bosch does a great job at that. I'm not sure there is a "cheap dishwasher that cleans well".

We have the 500 series and I *hate* our bottom rack. The tines in front are perpendicular to the tines in back, which makes it really hard to get all our dishes in the machine. And we have heavy stoneware dishes and the close together tines in one quadrant of the rack mean we can't get pots, pans, or dishes to fit in the quadrant. It's really frustrating!

The other problem I've experienced with this dishwasher and no prior dishwasher is there's a filter that needs frequent cleaning (and it's SUPER GROSS). With this machine, if you don't regularly clean the filter, your dishes will start to come out with caked on food bits and water won't fully drain from the machine. I've never had to do this with the GE or Kenmore machines of my past.

"We have the 500 series and I *hate* our bottom rack."

Me too. I'm looking into replacing it with one from an earlier Bosch, or even an aftermarket on that will fit. Someone suggested ebay.

I was also prepared to love my 800 series. I bought the model because I wanted fold down tines on top and a third rack. Those features are fine. I really wish I could buy a different lower rack. The tines are ridiculously close, and at strange angles. I find it really difficult to load plates unless they are paper thin. I recall other models having better lower racks. Does anyone know if I can buy a different lower rack? Sorry about the picture of my dirty dishes,

Off topic, but my Bosch doesn't dry well, particularly with plastic. If you really need dry dishes , you may want to consider another brand.

Well, since this is an such an old thread, the issue of the tines and dish racks for the Bosch were very well known. Accordingly when I needed to buy a new dishwasher, I took my dishes to the store. I then loaded the floor model dishwasher. I knew immediately that my dishes fit into the dishwasher. No magic; just research.

BTW, my dishes are not "paper thin". They are heavy crockery.

And if you did your research you would know that European style dishwashers do not have a US type drying cycle. The use the evaporation method which dries materials that absorb heat. Plastic does not absorb heat. Ergo, no evaporation. Nothing new there either. My dishes and flatware are always perfectly dry. Plastic, not so much. No biggie. I just hand wipe the plastic.

I posted my message to relay my personal experience with my Bosch dishwasher.

I agee with thorough research before purchasing an appliance, and I did a lot of research. Exerience,when feasible, always trumps research. Some things can only be discerned from using the item. Buyers should keep in mind you cannot fully experience how a dishwasher functions in your home by looking at it in a store. I really like the idea of bringing a few frequently used dishes to the store to test how they fit in the dishwashers you’re considering.

I've just gotten two new Bosch 800 series dishwashers, to replace my 18 year old pair of Bosch dishwashers, which cleaned wonderfully, were super quiet and lasted 18 years! We looked at the Bosch Benchmark Series, which are higher priced than the 800 series, but after a friend said he loves his new 800's we went with them. They are very quiet and clean very well - however - the racks are a big problem! The way the tines line up perpendicular across the back to the ones at the front, and how they're all sloped, really limits the amount of dishes, cookie sheet, large bowls, etc. that I can combine to wash at once. I pretty much have to place all dishes and cereal bowls OR larger cooking and baking items. I have removed the top, cutlery rack all together to allow for lunch plates on the middle rack in hopes of fitting more in the bottom rack, so I might as well not have paid for a model that had a top rack at all.

I am incredibly frustrated as these washers were $1500 each, and they work very well in terms of cleaning and are very quiet. The racks seem like they should be the simplest part of the design! Why they felt the need to over design their configuration in comparison to the old 2002 models I had I do not understand. They were perfect and far more useful the way they were!

That is so weird people are having issues with the racks. Our 3 year old Bosch 300 series machine is far superior to that of our old Whirlpool. We do not have the cutlery basket in the bottom rack, and we exclusively use the cutlery tray for silverware and knifes. All other large spoons and utensils go in the smaller row on the second rack. I find that I can fit nearly every plate and bowl in the bottom rack as long as we do not have any pots and pans that need to go in as well. I will say that it takes quite a while to adapt, but it is far superior to any other dishwasher I have ever used. In the future I will take a picture of how I load my dishwasher for a reference.

However, it will heavily depend on the type of dishware you are using. Bigger or thicker dishes can pose a problem.

Wow, sorry for your troubles! I was looking at the Bosch models for our remodel too, We have an older basic Bosch in our house now which has been great so I was leaning toward a new one as there are many more features for the money compared to Miele. But thanks to the Houzz crowd I brought my dishes to the store to try out. The new Bosch racks are really not designed very well, my dishes seemed to have a lot of wiggle room which I thought would cause chipping. I have a mix of stoneware and Corelle. Then I tried out the Miele which has shorter tines but they seemed to hold both the thicker and thinner plates more securely. So I went with the Miele but we won’t have it installed until late fall.

Eight, nine years ago I took my larger cooking and drinking items to try in the Bosch. Nothing fit right :o It was so small inside and the tines were just not going to work for me. Back to the drawing board (Internet). This time I decided on a KitchenAid dw. Wow oh wow!!! What a difference! And a bonus 3rd rack. I use it for silverware. Took out the large silverware basket and now I have even more room for a large item. Hands down the BEST appliance I've ever purchased. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that when it needs replace, the new KA dishwasher is just as good.

I can second the recommendation for the Miele. We have both a Miele in our main kitchen and a Kitchenaid in the in-law unit. It's like night and day. The Miele holds so much more and it does so effortlessly. The Kitchenaid is hard to load, and if I come even close to filling it up, it leaves lots of dishes unwashed -- something that almost never happens with the Miele.

Miele has been building overengineered dishwashers for at least 5 decades now -- at least that's how long my family has been owning Miele dishwashers. That type of experience really shows in their products ... and in their price tags.

The Bosch dishwasher racks are extremely flimsy, which causes the lower washer arm to jam if anything heavy is placed on the bottom rack. It might hold 2 stoneware plates. I called customer service and they said “that’s just how they’re made and we can’t do anything to fix it”

The lower rack falls out with any weight. It was defectively designed and Bosch won't stand behind its product.

I had a Bosch and the bottom rack fell off the guides all the time. The two repairmen who came out said my dishes were too heavy! Ridiculous as the KitchenAid I had in a previous house worked just fine with the same dishes. I never let up on Bosch and they finally returned my money along with the cost of the custom panel. I replaced it with a KitchenAid and never had another issue. I don’t know why Bosch gets such a good rating. My daughter has a lower priced Bosch and has the same issue, but she is more willing to accept this flaw than I was. There’s simply no reason that is has to be this way. If other manufacturers can do it, so can Bosch. Apparently they just don’t care.

The trays, especially the bottom one, are AWFUL!! It’s so cheap looking and constantly needs adjustment. I hate them but love the dishwasher performance. Just give me a stationary tray!!

I didn’t want to believe how bad the lower rack problem would be. I’ve had 3other Bosch dishwashers in the past and thought I was upgrading to an integrated, panel ready one. The bottom rack falls even with only 4 plates on it, jamming the turning water arm. It’s so awful I’ve had a repair person out who ordered me a new rack but it’s the exact same issue.

I will never buy a Bosch dishwasher again. I've had two and they both were crap. My current on is 2.5 years old and the bottom rack falls off the runners every time. You can barely put anything on the bottom rack or it falls in the tub and then nothing gets clean. Bosch doesn't want to do anything about it. I bought a top of the line model SHXM98W75N and it's useless garbage. I read so many complaints about this. I bet there are many hundreds if not thousands of people with this problem of the rack falling into the tub. People should all get together and force Bosch to take responsibility for this. We paid good hard earned money for a useless dishwasher.

The top of the line 2021 Bosch SHPM88Z75N has a fatal flaw. The lower rack falls off its rails when it is even only 1/4th loaded. To be clear, the entire rack falls off its rail and LANDS on the bottom washer arm, which prevents if from spinning. Total Frustration and SHOCKING that Bosch has not yet addressed this. Absolute shame on Bosch for ruining their reputation when almost everything else about the dishwasher is solid. I'm sadly going to have to return it. And never buy another Bosch again. How pathetic.

I can't really picture what's happening.....How does the bottom rack even fit in the tub base? I've had the bottom rack fall off runners if I pull it out too far, so I line it back up and roll it in. Is the rack bending? Do both sides of the rack fall off the runners, or just one at a time? I'm seriously wondering. I have not had a Bosch 800, but was happy with my 500 (and just ordered a new Bosch 500 for my new home).

I'm curious about this too -- I dislike our current Bosch which we inherited, it's an older cheaper model -- what drives me crazy is that the bottom rack often slides right off onto the door and I have to reposition the wheels to slide it back in, then a wheel invariably falls off, dishes fall off all over, ugh. But I can't say the rack's ever fallen into the tub itself.

Well, my Bosch dishwasher is now leaking and giving us the dreaded E-15 code. Ironically, this unit was a bosch replacement for a brand new unit that had a E-15 code within the first couple weeks. Bosch said it had a leak in the tub and was not repairable. I assume this is the case with this 2.5 year old unit model SHXM98W75N. Unbelievably disappointed in Bosch. Just terrible.

After 4 service calls, my Bosch dishwasher lower rack issue was "fixed" so the rack doesn't fall off the tracks. This involved having a technician pop off the wheels on one side and replace with slightly wider wheels. A 30-second, penny fix involving 4 service calls (thankfully under warranty) that makes it so the rack doesn't fall. It works better now but is still far from the quality I expect from Bosch. The plus side to the d/w is that is so quiet we often forget it's running.

Do you happen to know the part number for the wider wheels ?

i dont know the part number because the service tech odered them

Yes I called bosch and they mailed me fatter wheels too and now the problem is solved. Its a well known problem that bosch is aware of so just call them and itll be fixed.

Hi, do you know the part # of the wheels you received? I have the same problem. Called Bosch but the new wheels they sent me are just as bad if not worse. My dishwasher is less than a year old and I’m very frustrated. My 20 year old KitchenAid never gave me one day of problems.

I emailed Bosch because I couldn't get through on the phone. Always on hold for an hour or more and eventually had to give up. This was the response I received:

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We here at Bosch are always more than happy to assist you with your appliance inquiries and we appreciate you allowing us to do so.

In regard to your inquiry, we are sorry to hear about the trouble with your dishwasher. We can send you a lower rack wheel replacement kit, which includes wider wheels that have been redesigned to improve the stability of the lower rack. Please provide your address and an order will be created to send you the wheels, which should resolve the issue you are experiencing with the lower rack falling off the track.

You may reply to this email with your address – please leave the full email thread intact for reference. Thank you again for allowing us the opportunity to assist you in this matter.

Kind regards,
Rachel

BSH Home Appliances Corporation
Customer Support

I did receive the wheels a few days later and they did solve the problem.

I had the same issue 8 years ago and was told my plates were too heavy! Funny, this never happened with other manufacturers. Wheels didn’t help so after much hassle, I received a refund and they picked up the machine. I replaced it with a Kitchen Aid and have been thrilled. I’d never buy another Bosch dishwasher for that very reason. I don’t know why they don’t fix the problem.

I have a Bosch SHP878ZPN/01. I contacted Bosch and they told me they didn't have anything to fix my lower rack. Does anybody else have this model and was able to fix it?

My 2000 Bosch dishwasher was a dream until it just died, (Feb, 2023) The racks were very substantial. The washer didn't need any repairs EVER! I just looked at the 500 series and the racks feel so chinzy. I hate the layout of all the new dishwashers. If Bosch is considered the industry leader, then we are in trouble!

Even Bosch no longer 'makes them like they used to’ :-(

I've had our Bosch Silence Plus DW for 5 years and the rack continually jumps the track - video attached. I see there are many posts here regarding this issue. I installed the "extended lower rack wheel kit" part #10016657 that Bosch recommends and this did nothing to fix the problem.

I called Bosch Cust Svc and it was recommended that I purchase "lighter dishes." Comical.

Has anyone had any luck pushing Bosch Customer Service to fix this issue?

Ours doesn’t jump the track, but the lower spray arm jams with the slightest load on the bottom rack. Its an obvious engineering flaw where the wires on the bottom rack are bent down, instead of up. One lady up above said she made customer service send her a replacement but they blew me off

Has anyone tried moving the folding tines to a different area. We don't use the silverware basket (putting silverware in the top rack) and I was wondering about moving the entire folding tines rack to where the basket used to be, giving me more slots. It looks like the folding tines fasten with brackets or clips that might be repositionable.

The wheels on the bosch dishwasher both upper and lower racks break constantly. we have replaced them every couple weeks. My husband is furious about thisvdesign flaw!