I'm just an excited beginner with the steam oven. Got most of my knowledge from others here with more experience with it.

Yes, we have a CC. I'm not the main cook in the family (though I've been heavily using the steam oven) and so haven't personally used the CC all that much. I sure do love the food that's come out of it and he says it's really great to cook on.

Does it matter to you which way it opens (to the right or the left)? It can't be switched.

Which 30" oven are you stacking it over? If it's the Gaggenau of the same design, the only way to make them look good is to center the smaller one. If you do that, you can put slots for the trays on either side. You can make doors to match your cabinets, stainless covered, even stainless with glass over, to match the ovens, or open. That's assuming the plumbing will work out. Now that I think of it, it may not, since the drain has to go down the side of the lower oven, though since it's just for water, you might be able to put a little extra space between and have it all work. You wouldn't need a steep fall line.

If you need to put it to one side, or it's over a different brand oven (you'll probably have to have all the plumbing, not just the valves, in the adjacent cabinet if so), you also put a door that matches the oven(s) over the area that's left, or perhaps use it as a niche for a toaster or something.

You can make it work. The plumbing is the most important thing to work out. The rest is just decor. :)

Congrats on your find!

Thanks Plllog!

I am trying to see if I can find the 24" electric oven to match. I found one on Ebay (kinda leary of the Ebay route). The local dealer is checking his clearance stock and thinks they may have two left. That would be perfect. I also found the 24" warming drawer for $700.

New build so I can address the plumbing and cabinet config. I am just so excited....I was going to go with the Wolf but I know I would regret not getting the Gagg every time I used the Wolf.

I will have two full size ovens as part of my range (BS or CC) or if I go the rangetop route, two full size ovens (probably Wolf E series - unframed flush). Starting to all come together now.

Cheers,

M

Have you considered getting a speed oven instead of the 24" conventional oven?

Plllog,

I have considered that and have read good things about them. For two of us and quick meals, it would be perfect. The issue is how to make it all work and still look great (Mister's requirement). I am open to ideas....

Inspiration Cooking wall (will be slightly longer than this so could fit another bank):

We will have an open mud/second kitchen behind where a speed oven/micro combo could work (not full wall on the second kitchen - windows for views):

I am just not sure I would use a speed oven that was not in the main "cooking wall". If I could find a speed oven that would look great with the Gagg Steam Oven, I could do that. Unless I am missing something, there is not a speed oven in the Gagg line that could be stacked with the steam oven. I know, I know...doesn't have to match...but for Mister, it does.

M

PS. Reason for rangetop over range is he does not like the CC range handles. Not at all, not one bit and won't consider a CC range. If we go with BS, the handles r OK which then changes oven config.

Beautiful Kitchen but I'm a bit worried you won't have enough light during the day with all those small windows above.

unsigned

I am worried about light too! Told the architect to make them a bit larger. ;-)

Oh, dear. If handles are make or break on a functional appliance your only option is the matching oven.

None of what I said about making mismatched sizes work together applies. ;)

I don't know if or when the Miele combi-steam is going to be available here, and whether it can pair with their speed oven, but that would be the alternative.

Regarding the CC range handle, are the optional handle endcaps also a no go?

The optional end caps are no longer available from CC - not enuf demand. It isn't that all of the handles have to match...just that he doesn't like the CC handles.

Another question for gaggenau steam oven owners:

Does your door gasket pop out easily? Ours keeps coming out. It's simple and quick to reseat, it's just annoying.

Mine has never come out. I'm pretty gentle while cleaning it. Perhaps it's worth a service call?

Do you take it out to clean? Ours comes out and goes back in so easily.

I'll call and ask. They were good about promptly shipping us an accessory that was supposed to come with the oven and didn't (which reminds me, I recently noticed we were missing the temperature probe as well).

I'm impressed, so far we've had really good service from manufacturers on small issues that have come up on our very extensive remodel. (Milguard coming out to check on a window screen and then ordering a replacement, Modernaire taking a report on a fitting part that had issues and in one week making us a new part out of heavier guauge metal and shipping it right away, Gaggenau shipping us a missing accessory, Navien (tankless water heater) has amazing and detailed tech support that helped diagnose and fix an installation error. Labor and installation has been hit and miss, with some contractors making good on errors and others ....).

Zartemis-the door gasket should not come out. It should be in tight. It sounds like you have a problem.

My door gasket comes out all the time too and I wondered if this was supposed to happen. Please let me know what they say about it.

An update:

I called Gaggenau and they said that the gasket is not supposed to pop out, that it is supposed to have an adhesive behind it. Ours clearly had none (the metal and gasket are clean and new looking). This may be a known problem with some units, as soon as I mentioned the gasket the rep said quickly and matter-of-factly (without looking anything up, or asking for more detail, which is common) "it's not supposed to pop out, we'll have a service call scheduled".

It seats back in easily and will stay for awhile, so I didn't think much of it, initially. The manual does say never to remove it (which we haven't, it pops out all on its own).

This issue is covered under their 5-year warranty.

They also shipped out the missing temp probe.

I am thinking about this steam/convection oven but with my layout will have to have it on the wall about 10 feet from the cooktop. I don't really like that idea because I find that I frequently start cooking items on the cooktop and then finish them in the oven. But I was told by an owner of a gagg combi steam/convection that with all of the cooking modes, you can do it all straight in the oven and wouldn't need to ever start (eg. sear) food on the cooktop. Has this been your experience?
Also, it seems like other combination steam/convection ovens like Miele and Wolf only offer steam on or off whereas Gaggenau gives 5 or 6 steam levels to choose from. Do these make a real difference, or do you think that just being able to have steam on or off is benefit enough for most cooking?

Zartemis, thanks for the update.

Drbouba, I don't often use 80% steam, but I use the other levels all the time. From my experience, I'd say that, yes, it makes a difference. How much that difference is worth to you is a different question. You might be able to simulate the different levels by switching the steam on and off, though I don't know for sure.

As to the searing, I'm sure you currently have an oven. Do you sear in it? It would be the same in a combi-steam oven. I use a cast iron grill plate for broiling in my regular oven because I can get a good sear at the same time, and bottom cooks, too. Similarly, you can caramelize an onion in the oven, and in the combi-steam you can use the steam retention to keep them moist. But would you? Someone shared a recipe for making risotto in the combi-steam, and I set out to try it just for the heck of it. It was too complicated and confusing for me, however, and including using plastic wrap, which I didn't like, so I ended up making it the normal way on the stove. Risotto is easy! And I like stirring. I'm not sure how you get the starch to shed without it in the steam oven recipe, but then, I also didn't give it a chance.

That's the best I have to answer your question with: You probably could just do it all in the oven, but it's hard to change ingrained habits.

I have the lower budget little brother Thermador steam oven. It only has on or off steam, but some settings or preset programs seem to have more steam than others, but that could be imagined.

I haven't been too adventurous yet (feel free to send me favorite all steam recipes plllog) but risotto is one of the first things I tried and a new family favorite.

Mine has a tank, which is good because I could not have plumbed one high enough, and no drain, which is a bummer. We live in a very humid climate with very hard water and the cleaning after each use is not a favorite chore.

I'd love mine more if it were plumbed to a filter, but so far am pretty happy with it.

Good to know the 'lower end" unit works work too! Still looking and thinking of the Wolf.

Readyalready, I don't really have recipes. I'm really glad you're adding to the discussion. You're the first Thermador owner I've seen here. I've found that the combi-steam is great for the lazy. My favorite lazy thing is boneless skinless chicken breasts (the kind from the butcher, not Costco (I've never used the latter and don't know if they'd be different). I just dump in some vegetables and season the chicken and pop it in. Turns it into convenience food. With the steam you don't have to do any worrying about keeping them from getting dry. I think 100% steam would be too much, however, and would condense into the bottom of the pan and make the chicken soggy. In otherwords, use a rack to keep the chicken out of the puddle. :)

Re the water, invest in some reverse osmosis ("purified") or distilled water. It doesn't cost much compared to the annoyance of cleaning out the hard water. Use it in your iron and for making coffee and tea too. Really worth it.

Michelle, of course they work!! The thing about the steam ovens, though, is that they're all about convenience. You can do everything in a regular oven that you can do in a steam oven, only it's a bother. Each additional feature is that much less bother. How much less bother is worth to you is the question, not whether the intermediate units work. :)

I did try boneless chicken tenderloins and put on some spices and stewed tomatoes, it did get diluted and they were not very tender. I haven't tried it again, but will.

I would get kicked off of top chef for my risotto. I roast a butternut squash at 350 in steam about 35 minutes or until tender. I brown onions, then cook the risotto, onions, twice as much stock as rice in the oven using the program for risotto, about 30-40 minutes. It does not come out as runny as many think it should, but I could control that by adding more liquid pretty easily. Then I stir in 3T butter, 3T parm cheese and the squash that I have mashed.

I have a filter for drinking water and our ice machine and use that water in the oven. Getting even more purified water is a good idea, it definitely still leaves deposits.

I didn't know they were advertising the Wolf yet, it obviously wasn't available yet when I was shopping. It looks remarkably similar, I am intrigued by the 'automatic' mode where it senses the food size and shape and heats accordingly, not sure how that would work.

I have been using mine to reheat, it worked really well with beef and chicken that would not be as happy in a microwave. I weigh whether the results will be better enough to be worth the wipeout at the end.

My not entirely accurate sales guy claimed the Thermadors were made in the same place as the Gaggs, the size and models are similar enough that he could be right. He said the steam was variable, but it isn't unless it is varied in the preset programs.

Viking had one for a while but I heard it was discontinued because it wasn't very good. Miele is supposed to have a hybrid out this year too, but I haven't heard a new update of when. I know theirs has been out overseas and might feel better about a Miele vs a brand new model from a company that hasn't made them before, if you can wait.

The Thermador has a lousy one year warranty, as best I remember. How long is the Wolf's? Wolf's service is supposed to be pretty good, if it is longer that might help me feel better.

I received a quote for $3500 on the Wolf - I won't be installing until November so I have time.

Wolf Warranty:

Residential Use Only Full Two-Year Warranty*
For two years from the date of original installation, your Wolf Appliance product warranty covers all parts and labor to repair or replace any part of the product that proves to be defective in materials or workmanship. All service provided by Wolf Appliance under the above warranty must be performed by Wolf Appliance factory authorized service centers, unless otherwise specified by Wolf Appliance. Service will be provided in the home during normal business hours.

Limited Third Through Fifth Year Warranty
From the third through fifth year from the date of original installation, Wolf Appliance will repair or replace the following parts that prove to be defective in materials or workmanship: gas burners (excluding appearance), electric heating elements, blower motors (ventilation hoods), electronic control boards, magnetron tubes and induction generators. Labor to remove and replace defective parts is not covered. Wolf Appliance recommends that you use a Wolf authorized service center to perform such service.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wolf Specs

Plllog,

Is your steam oven plumbed to an RO system? We are planning an RO system but I had not considered using that for the steam or for that matter to the pot filler or the ice maker in the freezer. For the gaggenau steam what is the advantage?

Lalitha

zartemis - I know you use the steam oven a lot and with the picture you posted above I couldn't help but notice how shiny clean the interior still is! My oven has baked on splatter that I cannot get off, especially on the side rails - what is your secret to keeping this oven clean!!?? Thank you for the follow up to the door gasket. I called my dealer this morning based on your post and they are in the process of scheduling a service call for me too!

Muskokascp, not Zartemis, but have you taken it apart? The instructions are in the manual. It should be easier to clean the side rails if you do that. Also the steam assist is good, and I've found an inexpensive general cleaning steamer to help. Something I have to find to do this week as I make something spattery in there. I mostly make vegetables, and when I do there's not much to clean up.

Lalitha,

A lot depends on what your R.O. system is for. When I first moved to my neighborhood (about 6 years before this house), I wouldn't use the tap water for pasta because it was so foul. Not bad for you. Just awful tasting. They've improved it a lot since then, and it's neutral hardness, low on minerals, etc. My house came with an R.O. system that was plumbed for an ice maker as well. I sure never used the tap water for ice! When the R.O. system bit it, however, the numbers didn't add up, and I started buying distilled water for ice trays. By that time the tap water was fine for cooking. The (nasty, expensive) filter on my Miele freezer is good enough for the ice. The combi-steam is plumbed to the tap water. I occasionally see a mineral residue, but not enough to be concerned about. As I said, the water here is neutral for hardness, about 6 grains.

If you have minerals, especially things like lime, it's probably worth plumbing to the R.O. just to keep from having build up inside your very fancy machine. Check with the Gaggenau people though. I think there may be a kind of test thing you can do.

I still buy distilled water for the iron and coffee, but the tap water is fine, and I use it for tea. My kettle has a lid, so I can scrub it out if I need to.

We've only had and used (pretty much daily, tho) our steam oven for one month, not really long enough to acquire the really messy look. Truth be told, before that photo, I did clean it first! We have softened water (0 grains hardness), but the water can deposit salt when left to dry on a surface and it does (but it's much easier to clean off than hard water spots).

We did get one crusty spill on the bottom of the oven that didn't clean up well. I put the oven through two cleaning cycles (which unlike regular ovens isn't super high temp, it's mostly a high steam session) with some elbow grease with a soft sponge in between and it came up.

For those that have the steam ovens: ever wish you had two?! With two of us in the kitchen coordinating multiple dishes, we've sometimes had to fight over it. This is where the technique of steam roasting by doing 100% steam for the first part and 0% or 30% for the last part can help (instead of doing 60% the whole time) -- after the dish steams, we often shuttle it to the regular oven for the browning phase, freeing up the steam oven again. This technique can also be used for those who have steam ovens that don't have the midrange steam settings. (I got the technique from adapting a Cook's Illustrated carrot roasting recipe).

2nd gasket update:

It took a bit to get service for the steam oven gasket problem (where it popped out on its own). The first appliance repair contact given to us by Gaggenau did not service steam ovens. The 2nd one did. They first came out to look at and said they'd have to contact Gaggenau for advice. They came back with a replacement seal and said there is no adhesive.

Gaggenau reissued the seal. The old one was part number 663689. The new one is labelled 'kit, door seal, upgrade' and is part number 678479. I'm hoping that it actually is different and fits better. It seems to fit tighter, but I'm not going to yank on it and see. Time will tell.

I must admit I'm confused as to why they didn't just ship out a new seal -- no need for a service call. These things are just friction fit into the groove.

The reason for the service call is so that they aren't responsible for homeowner incompetence and stupidity. You would be surprised at the wide variety of ways people can figure out how to install a gasket wrong. If they send the repair guy and are responsible for his incompetence and stupidity, they can put pressure on his superiors.

3rd update, after 2 months heavy use (we use the steam oven between 2 and 5 times a day):

The new seal is definitely better. It's not 100% perfect, one corner popped out after a month of use and we reseated it and it hasn't come out again. All in all, much better than the first seal.

That's good to hear!! And, see! Your self-perceived competence to handle small tasks wasn't misguided at all! (VVBG)

I did the boneless turkey and it came out beautifully. I put the thigh bones in the pans alongside for flavor. Three breasts, three thighs, two pans, two hours, no basting!

PLLLOG,

I have not *seen* you here for a few days! Good to *see* you, :-)

I have a question for you.

Do you have water filtration system for the water source going into your combi-steam? I am about buy one and the sales person told me I needed to install a filtration system. That is another expense I want to postopne till later.

Eleena,

What is the hardness of your water? If above 7 grains per gallon, Gag recommends a softener. Mine is about 9, but I'm not planning to install one. I do have the mesh screen that goes inline, to keep particles from getting through.

What filtration system are they recommending? I have not been able to find the Brita softener recommended in the Gaggenau installation manuals (recommended when water hardness exceeds 7 grains/gallon). If that filtration system doesn't soften water, or if you don't have hard water, I would just get a screen type from Gaggenau or other.

plllog, I envy your guests!

The steam oven, especially the Gagg, is so expensive that I'd highly recommend softening the water into it if you have hard water. Anything that heats the water is going to have a hard time dealing with the mineral buildup. And I don't know if it is possible or if it is, how much of a pain it is, to do a vinegar rinse through the plumbed Gagg like you would with a coffee maker or electric pot that gets mineral buildup.

I agree that demineralizing hard water sounds like a good idea. My water is 5-6, and it wasn't considered necessary, but I sometimes worry a bit about it.

Nice to be missed. ;) I was offline for over a week. :(

There is a procedure for removing the inlet pipe and descaling it by soaking it in vinegar. I have no idea whether calcium will accumulate in other places than the inlet pipe.

The oven will display a symbol to tell you when to do this, based on hours of operation and the hardness range that you program into to oven. The lowest of 4 ranges is 1-7 grains per gallon; the highest is >21 grains/gallon. If you don't program it, it will default to the highest hardness/minimum time between descaling.

No, I don't think he was talking about water hardness, though he might have had in mind too. It was more along the lines of using "clean" water for cooking.

But thanks for the tips, everyone!!! We don't have hard water either but a filter is a good idea anyway, I think.

If your water is unpleasant to drink without filtration, then maybe a good idea for the steam too.

One of the combi oven user manuals (I think it was the Gaggenau tank model, but may have been other make tank model) specifically says not to use distilled water. No idea why.

We plumbed it to use softened water. We had to get a whole house softener as our water hardness varies greatly (the city sources water for 6 months and uses well water for 6 months). However, my plumber did warn me to not use RO filtered water as it can be aggresive with any metal it touches. I assume the distilled water issue is similar. Water is a natural solvent and very pure water which has had all minerals filtered can apparently corrode any metal it touches. This is also why my potfiller does not have RO water. LOL.. the things we learn during a remodel :)

Lalitha

I have a 24" Gaggenau combi/steam oven which I installed about 3 months ago and I love it. I have two questions:

1) I'd like to buy some additional pans. I see sites like Katom Restaurant Supply have them for much less than Gaggenau rep. For those of you who have them what depth do you recommend? Gaggenau only offers 1 1/2" deep for $149 and looks like there are a range of sizes for a fraction of cost.

2) Has anyone found a source of recipes for steam oven? I can only find a handful here and there. There doesn't seem to be a cookbook for steam ovens.

Many thanks!

martita34, regarding recipes, the first ~70 pages of the linked file are combi-steam.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gaggenau cook book online

I have not been able to find a good cookbook that applies to combi steam ovens, but most of the manufacturers offer one. Here is the Viking Thermador has some charts on time and settings for various foods http://www.thermador.com/public/documents/MES301HP%20IU.pdf

Wolf has some recipes as well in its book, though it has a number of auto settings - so it may not be of much help

http://www.subzero-wolf.com/resources/products/downloads/Steam%20Oven%20UCG.pdf

While the ovens offer convection, steam , and combined, sometimes they use diff terms for those functions, keep that in mind in using the different books.

Here is a link that might be useful: viking cookbook.

I am considering a Gaggenau steam oven as part of our kitchen remodel, and after reading all of your wonderful posts, I have a few questions. I appreciate any advice (and ammunition used to convince my husband that I really need this!):

1. I read about the door seal popping off on several of your ovens. What other maintenance problems have people had with these ovens? I talked to our local excellent appliance store, they don't sell these but they service them, and the repair guy I talked to said that he doesn't get a lot of service calls for the Gaggenau ovens, which seems like a good sign!

2. As I haven't seen one in person yet, do you need access to the water connection regularly? Does the oven just pull out if you need to access this for cleaning, etc? I saw one on-line site which recommended a cabinet next to the oven for easy access to water connections....not sure that was necessary, or exactly what was meant.

3. How hard are these to keep clean?

I do a lot of bread baking where I take the trouble to simulate a steamy environment, so I think having a steam oven would be fantastic! Thanks for your advice.

I am also considering buying Gaggenau combi-steam and have a couple of questions. I've posted them already on the forum but somehow have not gotten any answers. I apologize for my repetitions, but I feel that real experts are on this thread and thus you may know.

1. Gaggenau combi-steam oven manual says that the oven cooks with normal pressure of the steam. I've contacted Gaggenau and received that as a reply:
"Thank you for your email and interest in Gaggenau Appliances. I can confirm that our Combination Steam ovens are non pressure. Pressure steam ovens work by building the steam in a pressured and sealed cavity, although cooking in a pressured environment can cut down on cooking time it doesn't allow you to cook different food types to the desired and required time and also to maintain taste and nutrients. As different types of food require different lengths of cooking time the Gaggenau non pressure system will allow you to access the oven adding and taking foods out at different times to ensure the varying types are food are cooked to perfection whilst having them cooked and ready at the same time."

Miele combi-oven does not say anything about steam, only mentions that if the door is opened, the operation stops, and pressure needs to be equalized. Do you cook with Miele in stages, meaning do you add things in the process?

Can you please comment on it? Is there real difference btw Miele and Gaggenau ovens or not? And does it matter?

2. I also hoped that Gaggenau oven would have pull-out racks but it does not. Miele does. Gaggenau however has a side door. Will I miss the pull-out racks if I go with Gaggenau, or direct access to the oven ensures that I really do not need the racks?

Thanks a lot!
MTC

MTC,

What model Miele? Last time I looked (been a while), the models available in the U.S. were steam ovens, not combi. Did they finally bring a combi here, as they were promising (or are you elsewhere)? If not, they are limited to about 212F/100C maximum.

The Gaggenau has a button you can push to condense the steam before you open the door (at least the plumbed one does).

Martita - here is a link to alternative pans for the gagg courtesy Zartemis.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gaggenau combi alternative pans

Mathjen: my gagg combi is going on 7 years old. I have never had a service call...the oven has been a dream to use, almost daily. The gasket is tight. I have never had to gain access to the plumbing. There are 4 rack guides you use to slide your trays in and out of the oven, so no need for actual "racks".
There is a fault prompt that goes off about every 2-3 years to "decalcify" a part, it takes about 30 minutes or so to do this and is outlined in the manual. My oven does get nasty on the inside, as I roast in it, do BBQ ribs, etc. About every 6 months I use Easy off on the interior, and wipe it dry in the morning. For best effect, I remove the tray runners and filter on the side. I put them outside and spray them with Easy Off also. My oven looks brand new after I do this. It is not a manufacturer recommendation, it is my own method I tried to get my oven sparkly clean. I would repeat this purchase and cannot recommend it highly enough.

Marvin: I am not sure there is a real competetor to the Gagg combi on the market (totally plummed, steam variable). So I cannot help you with a comparison.

I have the combi. Mine is about 6 yrs old and replaced a combi that was originally in my new home that was built 7-8 yrs ago. Replaced under warranty. The first one had the gasket problem

I haven't had any problems with this oven. I love my combi. I am in love with my combi. I could go on and on. My oven is nasty inside too.

I have extra racks and pans because I got to keep the originals. Extras are nice.

This oven is plenty big enough inside for anyone with doubts.

Redoingit. Your oven looks new after cleaning it using your method...I'm going to try it. Hope mine works out this well.

Mathjenn--my plumbers screwed up (or maybe my KD and I did) but we do not have access to the water line behind the oven through another cabinet. Thankfully, we have never needed it.