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36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Posted by Peke (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 6, 13 at 14:23

I have read on this forum about people pulling their cabinets 3" from the wall so they would have more room for large pots on their rangetop. My cabinet guy said it would make the cabinets weaker to not be connected to the wall. He instead is offering to make the rangetop cabinet deeper.

BS installation guides say...This appliance has been designed to be installed directly against rear walls and side base cabinets. It cannot be installed directly against tall side cabinets, side walls, tall appliances or base cabinets extending beyond 24 inches [610 mm].

How can this be when people put rangetops in islands? There are no rear walls then.

Others have placed their BS rangetops at 27" deep. I can see that you wouldn't want to have extra deep cabinets with it placed back too far, but what about moving it 3" on a 27" and have the 3" extra behind the back burners? That would be a problem with the island or stainless steel backsplash I guess. Any thoughts?

For BS rangetop owners...do you have enough room for big pots in the back? Is it too crowded against the backsplash? Thanks for any advice or info. Peke


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Your cabinet guy ought to be able to connect your cabinets to the wall, no matter how far out you want them. It's pretty basic!!

(Is this his first kitchen?)

Dunno about the rangetop. I think that I would feel comfortable installing it "island style".


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

It's a great idea to pull your base cabinets out by 3". You will love the deeper counters. Don't forget to get your hood deep enough to cover the front burners. That means you will need either a 27" deep hood, or you could hang a 24" deep hood so that it too is pulled out a bit - this topic has been discussed on the Kitchens Forum before, so you could do a search. See the pic below which shows a hood pulled away from the wall.

I do not understand your cabinet guy's issue. You could post on the Kitchens Forum and ask, because there have been quite a number of people there who have pulled their cabinets away from the wall in order to have 27" counters. If you will have upper cabinets over that deeper counter run, make the uppers 15" deep. They'll hold dishes and glasses much better than the standard 12" depth anyway.

Here are a couple of photos of ranges set into deeper countertops, with countertop trim behind them, to help you picture how good it looks.

Bluestar range with island trim and counter behind it

Bluestar range with island trim and counter behind it


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Cabinet guy could add a couple flat 2x4"s behind the back, bringing the cabinets out about 3-1/8", and run the same 2x4"s behind the range top to put your countertop on. You also could use an Island hood, and pull it off the wall...


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

I moved to this small town on the lake and never realized I would have a hard time finding workers to do things. Took us forever to find a "real" elecrician with an actual license and insurance. I think my cabinet guy hasn't ever heard of doing that...he probably just does what he always does to build cabinets...now he will have to "think" about what to do! LOL He tried to tell me I couldn't put the dishwasher at waist level and I told him I have had one that way for 12 years. 15" is what I am planning on the uppers. I think I will look for a 27" depth hood if I can find one I can afford. If you know of one, please let me know. I see 24" ones mostly. Thanks, Peke


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Correction, I see 22" ones mostly.

New question: If I have a 27" deep rangetop cabinet and pull the 24" vent hood out 3 inches, what kind of "filler" do I need from the wall to the back of the vent hood? (The 3")

Would the filler piece be horrible to keep clean?


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Stainless steel is a popular filler. I bet you could use backsplash material as well--tile or a strip of granite or whatever.

It won't be any harder to keep clean than the rest of it. Easier if you're tall. :)


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Pulling the cabinets forward isn't a big deal at all. You just have to pull the rangetop forward as well. Stainless steel makes a fine trim piece, or your stone guys can probably make a granite "bridge" for behind the rangetop.


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Peke:

As GreenDesigns says, it is easy to bump out the rangehood and bump out standard depth cabinets. You only need frames built from 2x4 lumber cut to the depth you need. You are basically making bump-outs on the wall behind the cabinets and appliances. For the one behind the rangehood, I would sheath the bump-out face with 3/4" plywood to properly support a wall mounted rangehood. If you are using a cabinet-hung rangehood, I would still sheathe the face of the bump-out (and stuff the space with insulation) unless you want a resonance chamber that magnifies and echose the vibrations and and noise from your hood.

However,

(1) I think your cabinet guy is right to offer to make the base cabinets deeper. Not because framing them out would be weaker, though. Seems to me that, if you are going to trouble with having deeper counters, why put unusable dead space at the back of the cabinets?

(2) For bumping-out a 24" rangehood, you will want to have a fairing -- a piece where the back wall angles out to the back of the rangehood. Boxing it out at the top is certainly easy, but it creates a flat surface behind the hood which will collect moisture and goo and is likely to interfere with the effectiveness of the hood. Especially if you are using those big pots on the rangetop that extend backwards as you mentioned in you original post. Our resident hood-guru, Kaseki, has posted on this. Use his name in a search string and you find some discussions of this point.

(3) For pulling the range-top out from the wall:

(a) BS says you must use a backsplash-vent piece on the back. For your application, you can use the "island" trim backsplash/vent. What you read from the BS manual in the "safety" section is about using the island trim piece. The manual says you must not use the island trim piece if you are going to butt the cooktop against a wall or tall cabinet. They want the island trim piece to be at least six inches from any combustible wall or cabinet. But, if you have noncmbustible surfaces behind the cooktop and on the back wall, you can do what you want. I just checked the manual and it says:

"If the island trim option is used without the 6" clearance recommended, a non-combustible rear wall extending a minimum of 6" below the countertop must be used."

That means you can do what you want but you need to have something like granite, tile, or stainless steel behind the cooktop and on the backwall.

(b) The mandatory trim piece will prevent large pan bases from overhanging off the cooptop in the back. No problem with pans with smaller bases that flare much wider, like the woks in the photos linked above. But, it will keep you from pushing a 16 or 20 inch diameter stock pot off the back.

(c) the mandatory back trim requirement is a bit puzzling to me. The unit is designed for use with both the ranges and rangetops. I can see the need for it with the ranges because the pice provides a riser for the oven vent. But, the separate rangetop unit has no oven to vent. Might want to call BlueStar/Prizer and see about a clarification on that. It might just provide a modicum of venting and needs to be high enough to limit how much stuff can fall inside the cooktop from the back.

(d) Anyway, how big are the pots you want to use and how much of them do you think you want to have hanging off the back of the rangetop? As noted in the linked photos, there is no problem with things like woks but the trim will impeded large diameter stockpots and such.

Seems to me that one of the benefits of having a 6-burner, 36" wide rangetop is that you have enough space to stagger really big pots to avoid the need to have big pots hanging off the back. Are you thinking about trying to run six 14-inch diameter frying pans simultaenously? Maybe several 65 cm paella pans?

Unless you need to do things like that, I'm not sure that you would really need to have pots hanging over the rear vent/trim and off the back of the rangetop. Bear in mind that any "pro-style" cooktop, rangetop and range will have the burners spaced more widely than on major brand stoves and cooktops. For instance, on my old GE stove, the burners were spaced 9-inches on center, front to back. On my current 30" NXR, the burners are on 11" centers. My largest canning kettle is 12.5" in diameter at the base. My stove has an oven vent-riser/backguard at the back, similar to the ones BlueStar uses. The burner spacing means I can put two big canning kettles on the back burners and still use 12-inch diameter frying pans on both of the front burners. The frying pans will be slightly off-center over the burners, but not enough to adversely affect evenness of heating. (There would be no problem at all if I were using 10-inch fry pans). If I had wider stove with six burners, I could stagger the pan placement and avoid the problem.

So, my point is that, if the idea of hanging big-pans off the back seems like a useful thing, consider how much you actually might be needing to do that.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Fri, Jan 18, 13 at 15:54


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

JWVideo - great post. I just have a comment about your point (1) about having the base cabinets be deeper than the standard 24" when you also have deeper counters. You asked why leave the cabinets at 24", thereby having dead space behind them under the deeper counters. There are actually a number of reasons to keep the cabinets at the standard 24" when the counters are deeper. We opted for the countertop to be 27" (not including the overhang of 1-1/4"), and kept the base cabinets at the standard 24". Several reasons: (a) deeper drawers than the standard 24" depth were significantly more expensive, (b) although it is easy to find cabinet makers who make deeper-than-standard uppers of 15", it is more rare to find cabinet makers who will make deeper base cabinets and base drawers, (c) we were concerned about the weight of the deeper drawers when they'd be filled with pots and pans, and fully pulled-out, (d) if you opt for base cabinets instead of base drawers, it will be more of a pain to reach toward the back of those deeper base cabinets, and (e) like many who chose deeper counters or deeper uppers, one reason is because we had a small pipe along the wall; it was either move the pipe, or make the counters deeper and have the 3" of open space behind the 24" cabinets for the pipe.


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Good points.


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Thank you! All valid points.

I guess I was thinking about my old gas cooktop and how the pans always touched the backsplash. When I looked at the BS in the store, it didn't look very deep. So I assumed I would have the same problem. Now that I think about it, it could be an optical illusion. Maybe it just looked shallower.

I have had 3 huge pots going at one time before plus a huge skillet. But if your largest canner fits then my largest pot should fit. Those canners are huge.

I hope my cabinet guy understands what a fairing is. I will try to explain like you did.

So the 6" clearance is only for the back? I thought it might include the side since the gas flames are close to the counter tops. So if I need to put nonflammable material 6" below rangetop on the back wall, why don't I need to put 6" on the sides of the base cabinet next to the rangetop.

Ok I am probably over analyzing it. I will call BS on Monday.

I think you are also saying that the trim piece will NOT let a large pot hang over. The pan will bump into the trim piece. Then there will be granite or ?? behind the rangetop on the small piece of countertop then stainless steel can go up the backsplash. I guess I would do 36" wide SS up to the 42" vent hood.

Will the people that make stainless steel backsplashes know what a fairing is? Will they know what I need? I live in a small town.

I never even thought of the drawers being heavier because of the length. So much to consider.

Thank you all for your insight and help. Cabinet guy is wanting to build them, but I am not ready yet. Peke

By the way, can anyone post a picture of a fairing or how they used a filler. Maybe a picture will help explain to the SS guys.


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

I had my cabinet bases, on the range side of my kitchen, built 29.5" deep. I have 27" deep drawers, vs. the 21" deep that typically go in 24" cabinets, so it is almost like having an extra drawer in each stack. Heavy duty Blum drawer hardware -- I didn't need heavy for the top drawers, but Blum only makes heavy duty in lengths over 21". I don't think I paid more for the drawer boxes; 27" heavy duty hardware cost about $30 more per drawer.

It does turn out to be a bit of hassle (hood, etc), but the deeper counters give room to fit a toaster, etc at the back, and still have good prep/staging at the front.

Oh yeah, the main reason for the deep counters was that the wife wanted a "full depth" refrigerator -- now it looks "counter depth."


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

>>>"So the 6" clearance is only for the back? I thought it might include the side since the gas flames are close to the counter tops. So if I need to put nonflammable material 6" below rangetop on the back wall, why don't I need to put 6" on the sides of the base cabinet next to the rangetop. "<<<

No. It applies to any vertical surface that is within six inces of the rangetop and which rises above the rangetop. Bear in mind the rule only applies to surfaces that are vertical AND above the rangetop. You don't worry about the side cabinets because they do not extend above the rangetop, at least you won't have any side cabinets within six inches of the sides of your rangetop. (Also note that the BS range must sit slightly above the countertop so the horizontal countertops will not count as "vertical surfaces above the rangetop." IIRC, the BS user manual says that the back and side trim must stand at least 11/16" above the countertop.)

I suppose somebody somewhere might be silly enough to want to shoe-horn a 36-inch rangetop into a 36-inch wide alcove. It would not be somebody who wants to cook. Picture trying to cook on a rangetop that was on a shelf inside of a base cabinet.

But, anybody silly enough to want that would most certainly have to extend the non-combustible side-wall coverings down six inches below the level of the cooktop.

You, on the other hand, seem like a rational person who will want to have at least a foot or two of counter space on either side of your rangetop. So, you don't need to worry about the fireproofing on the sides.

>>"I would do 36" wide SS up to the 42" vent hood."<<<

Might want to check into the kitchens forum on that. My inclination would be to make the backsplash as wide as the hood. I believe that there are some photos over there that might help you better visualize the design.

..."Will the people that make stainless steel backsplashes know what a fairing is? Will they know what I need?<<<

If you get the SS panel made for you at a metal shop, they could put it in a bender and bend the top 5 or 6 inches out about 3 inches. (The exact dimension will be the distance between the back side of the bottom of your rangehood and the wall behind the rangetop.) Your cabinet guy or any reasonably handy person could make a small triangular frame to sit on the wall behind the bent piece to provide attachment as well as keeping it braced for cleaning and such.

I've seen photos of fairings here somewhere but cannot locate them just now. Try Kaseki's clippings page and also search the kitchens forum.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sun, Jan 20, 13 at 16:55


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Thanks, I think it is finally starting to make sense to me. Thankfully it made sense to all of you which is why I am asking. I knew someone would understand it all.

If it takes me this long to get the vent hood right, imagine how long it will take me to choose a backsplash material! LOL

Thanks again! Peke


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

JW video you said........ sheath the bump-out face with 3/4" plywood to properly support a wall mounted rangehood. If you are using a cabinet-hung rangehood, I would still sheathe the face of the bump-out (and stuff the space with insulation) unless you want a resonance chamber that magnifies and echoes the vibrations and
noise from your hood.

I am not sure what you mean by "sheath the face". Also does the range hood get attached to the wall as well as the upper cabinet? I agree there would be an echo chamber there so I will insulate it as you have suggested.

Thanks for everyone's help and advice.


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

I am not JW, but when you build a frame for something - either a wall, or in your case, a bump out, the frame is made of lumber, such as 2 x 4's. To sheath it, you would cover the bump out with a piece of plywood. It is the same as your exterior walls - they use 2 x lumber to make a frame for a wall, then attach plywood to the face of the wall to sheath it. Some hoods are designed to be attached to the bottom of a cabinet, and some are designed to be attached to the wall behind the range. JW's point on sheathing, is that if you do that, it will be easier to mount it to the wall, since you won't have to find the studs in your bump out to screw into, the plywood will cover the entire back of the bump out.and you can screw the hood into that.


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

Oh that makes sense to me. Thank you.

While I was at work the range hood was installed. There is now just a rectangular hole behind the hood.

So now what do I do? Still put a frame in the hole? Still put insulation inside? Still put a rectangular piece of plywood there? Then get stainless steel backslash made?

Or...do I have to remove the range hood and start over?

It is a good thing I bumped the rangetop and hood out 3". They said they wouldn't have been able to install the hood.
Something about a rectangular part in the hood needing to change to 10" round vent to go outside.


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RE: 36" BS rangetop with cabinets pulled out 3"

I know I'm reviving an old thread, but when I searched "Gardenweb base cabinet install away from wall" this is what came up.

I want to do this in my mudroom, but I am DIYing it and looking for guidance. I know that I can use 2 2x4s to build it out about 3"s. My question is, do you build it out with 2x4s in the horizontal, or do you have to build some support studs to hold those 2x4s in place? (I am thinking, here, about how I would attach the 2x4s to the wall at the upper section of the cabinets, not where they'd sit along the floor).

Has anyone done this who can offer me a "this is what we did, and it is all still in place"?

TIA!


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