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Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Posted by trinkette (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 13, 14 at 10:45

Lacanche, Cornufe, or Bertazzoni Range with Bosch 500, DCS wall oven for small kitchen?

I am looking for an LP gas range, 36" or larger. Ideally, I'd like two ovens - one gas and one electric - and I'm ambivalent about an oven convection feature. In terms of looks, the professional style ranges do not appeal to me. So, I'm hoping I can get the kind of performance I want in the European-style package. Eye-appeal, performance, and cost-for-what-you-get are primary reasons for considering the Lacanche, Cornufé and Bertazzoni ranges. If I could find one at the right price, I'm not opposed to a used La Cornue, Molteni or similar range.

I prefer knobs to electronic displays. I'm always in a hurry to get things done and I'm one of those people who burns herself and chops-off fingertips, so design, ease of use and ergonomics are important to me. My husband jokes that after I cook, FEMA needs to come in to clean-up! Regardless, I'm persnickety about quality of build in all things, and when I cook, I want a stove top and oven to heat evenly, I don't want things to feel flimsy and I want them to last. I'm looking for a stovetop that has at least five burners, a low simmer and also puts out enough heat to stir-fry effectively (I'm torn between a French plate and power-burner). I'd prefer quiet ovens that heat-up relatively quickly, put out even heat, have low heat settings, and have quality thermostats and close-fitting doors. I don't care if the ovens have interior lights, windows in the doors, self-clean, or beep when pre-heating is done. Pretty much, performance trumps accessories/options. I've not cooked with any of these appliances except for the DCS single wall oven.

Our kitchen is a small, U-shaped area with a narrow island and we'd like to work within the current footprint. There is not a lot of room, however I'm willing to dedicate the center portion of the "u" to the range/ovens. The range and hood would be the focal point. I have small concerns about the relative cost of an effective hood over a larger-sized, multiple-oven range (like a bigger Lacanche) as well as the cost to deal with potential MUA issues, however, the quality of the range/ovens comes first. Also, the disconnect between the old-style looks of Lacanche and La Cornue/Cornufé and the modern appearance of a Bosch or DCS oven is secondary to performance.

I'm an average cook, with a husband and teen-aged son. We do not entertain much. My husband and I cook a little of everything, including: cakes; pies, breads and cookies; roast fowl, meats and vegetables; egg dishes; chocolate confections; casseroles; sauces; stir fry; pizza; pancakes and crepes; and pasta dishes. Usually, we grill outside. I use a slow cooker and would prefer to do that in my new oven. Also, I dehydrate fruits and plants and use the oven for crafts.

My question is: which range or range/wall oven combo do you think is my best bet in terms of servicing our cooking goals and meeting expectations for quality? After reading the forums extensively and researching the internet, I have reservations about each possible combination, and yet I still believe the solution is here. These are my options as I see them: 1) Any one of several Lacanche models with gas and electric oven combo (and maybe a warming cabinet); 2) Any one of several Lacanche models with gas oven paired with single electric wall oven (again, maybe add a warming cabinet) Bosch 500, DCS or similar; 3) Cornufé 110 (no gas oven here, but it can work); Cornufé 1908 paired with single electric wall oven Bosch 500, DCS or similar (I like the La Cornue style gas oven here); 4) Bertazzoni double, dual-fuel oven; 5) Bertazzoni gas oven paired with single electric wall oven Bosch 500 or similar. 6) Another option - I'm happy to hear your ideas, even if you think my ideas are all wet.

It is very early in our kitchen redo process and I am completely open to suggestions. Sorry to be so long-winded. I appreciate your expertise and advice. Thanks in advance for your input!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

There are a lot of Lacanche fans here, so they will chime in with their view.

I have a CornuFe Albertine, and of your choices, I think the newer 1908 is the best candidate of the CornuFes. Paired with a good electric oven, it would be a compelling combination. They also have a french top accessory available now. I would check out the size of the vaulted oven, as you do lose some vertical space but your horizontal space should be better than your other choices.

For me, the Berta burner configuration was lacking. After the power burner, the power distribution drops off dramatically.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Thank you, gooster, for your response. Turns out, you described my first-pick solution. And I didn't know about the French top accessory; thanks for the heads-up. Also, I appreciate your thoughts regarding the Bertazzoni.

I'm still eager to read other points of view, hopefully someone will chime in ...


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I'm giving you a bump, as I know there are people who love their Lacanche ranges and I am surprised they have not chimed in. I have never used one, let alone see one.

If you get the 1908, please come back and report your experiences. I will post a full review, once I have more time with some of the oven modes.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Okay, I'll throw in my nickel.

We have had a cluny since 2005. Short story - we love it. It's perfect for us. It's burgundy. It's name is Julia.

The one question which seems to pop up is the size of the ovens. We have a small kitchen (as you say you have) The ovens are more than adequate for anything we cook, and we cook a lot and are pretty serious about it. The largest thing we cook in the oven is the thanksgiving turkey. Not a big family, so we get by with a 13 pounder. This year we needed two, so we deconstructed them. Worked great.

To me, it's always seemed odd that people are worried about a meal they make once a year and so they buy wall ovens, or larger stove to accommodate that bird.

We also make pizza nearly every Friday night. They turn out great.

If you can avoid the wall ovens, you have room for a lot more cabinets.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

We are in the process of getting the Cluny as well, with the warming oven. We went to the showroom in NYC with the expectation of getting the Sully or the Citeaux because of the larger ovens. Ends up my wife loved the Cluny and the small ovens. As JoeBoldt states, the small ovens will not hold you back unless you do lots of large quantity baking with full size sheets. It has the quality and solid feel, soft close storage drawers ( new this year !). Many options on the cooktop. Not sure you can go wrong, except if budget gets in the way. Also, can slow cook In the warming drawer. Very compact too with two ovens. Good luck


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Two cents on oven size. We have a 1956 range that has a double oven and is 40" wide. The larger oven, probably about 28", fits a 1/2 sheet pan just fine, a turkey, chicken, pizza and more. This avid home cook doesn't need anything bigger. We are a family of two adults and entertain often enough for oven size to matter.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Thanks everyone for your input! The oven size is not an issue for us, I'm sorry I did not mention that fact in my initial post. I actually prefer a smaller oven.

The warming oven option is especially appealing and I can see using it often. It is a strong motivator to go with Lacanche, as is the ability to get gas and electric ovens all in one unit which saves precious wall space and improves overall aesthetics. When we were planning a new home a few years ago (which did not end up happening) Lacanche was my first choice.

gooster, the 1908 intrigues me. If it were available with dual ovens - one electric and one gas - it might have been an easy first-choice solution this time around. The fact that I want an electric oven in addition to gas complicates things.

Joebolt, I am happy to hear Julia turns-out great pizza; we make pizza once a week. Happily cooking with Julia since 2005 is a solid recommendation. And I hear you regarding the space-gobbling wall oven. It is precisely the reason I'd prefer to have all the ovens in one range, IF I'm not sacrificing performance - especially with the electric oven.

bakerboy63, your description of the solid-feel Cluny with new soft-close drawers sounds promising. And, I agree, Cluny offers a ton of function in a compact space - perfect for my limited kitchen area. I've been considering Cluny, Chagny, and Volnay/Vougeot models.

ChristyMcK, sounds like we have similar cooking needs! Your range sounds perfect. Thanks for chiming in.

Again, I'm most concerned with overall quality and performance. After moving quite a bit during the past ten years and cooking with many stovetops, ranges and ovens, I've seen it all. I'm not a great chef by any means, just a home cook who aspires to continue to learn more, to improve, and to present delicious foods to my family and friends. However, after cooking on various appliances - from a monster Dynasty range to glass and electric cooktops, to a modest 1960s gas range - my critical nature has reared it's ugly head. If I do my job, I want my appliance to do its job as well - I expect my meats to be moist, my souffles to rise, my cookies to brown, and my omelets to evenly set.

There is no perfect appliance. I'm seeking input from all of you experienced users so that I may objectively weigh all the pros and cons in order to come up with the best possible combination for us and our space. And I'm not beyond re-examining my desire to have a European style range, over a more pro-style range, if folks think I am being unreasonable in my expectations. I realize there may be a trade-off of sorts between aesthetics and performance, and there is not perfect solution. Thank you all for chiming in.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Well, I am disappointed. I'd done my research online but still not seen the Bosch 500 in real life - until today. I know it is a good oven, however, the racks seem so piddly and lightweight, especially compared to the heavy, rolling racks of the DCS I've been using! So now, if I go the wall oven route, I'll spend a bit more and go for another DCS.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Hi trinkette,

Just wondering how your decision making process is going. Did you ever consider a combi-steam oven (Gaggenau, Wolf)? We don't have one, but I hear nothing but great things about them. We are in the early stages of planning a kitchen remodel but our 1956 range is terrible from a functional standpoint (uneven heat, only 3 burners work) and so I'm most focused on my new range/ovens these days.

I'm a bit all over the map (blue star, Lacanche) but lately the LaCanche Volnay plus steam oven seems like a good combo. I like the idea of a warming drawer (I make yogurt and bread and the lower temp range of the drawer would work) and the idea of having both a conventional oven and steam oven.

I was out of town when I posted last and have since measured the double ovens on my 1956 range. The larger one has a 23" door and a 21" wide cavity. The smaller oven is 16" door and 13" cavity, but like I mentioned the sizes work well for us.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Hi ChristyMcK,
The hunt continues and it's been an interesting and unexpected ride so far! Realizing my preference for function over form (if I can't have both) I re-aligned my criteria and I've spent the past few weeks looking into ALL types of ranges, from the traditionally styled European models to pro-styled ranges and wall ovens. So far, I've seen in person (but not cooked on) Wolf, BlueStar RNB Series, Viking, Thermador, Electrolux, Bosch, GE, LaCornue Chateaux, Cornufe 1908, Cornufe 110. Plus, I have seriously considered Lacanche, and considered Capital and American as well as a few other brands.

One significant change to my Want List: if there is to be just one oven, I want it to be gas (I've always preferred a gas cooktop) and I may forgo an additional electric wall oven. I don't bake enough to justify dual-fuel and when I really thought about it, I realized that some of the best meals I've ever baked came out of an old GAS oven, not electric. Also, I have such limited space in my kitchen, it seems most prudent to limit myself to range oven(s) only.

At this point, I would say my top-choice range in terms of FUNCTION is BlueStar, hands down. I especially love the new Precision series; I wish they offered it n the 36" size. What I most covet about BlueStar is the star-shaped open burners. Also, I like the size and feel of the single grates, and the ease of cleaning the drip pan. The component that put me over the top with the oven(s) is the infrared broiler. The HEFTY oven racks are awesome (as well as the weighty accessories that come with each range); I love the telescoping rack (the unit comes with only one of these racks, but for a pretty penny you can swap out the other two for rollers). My only caveat with the BlueStar is that they are still not eye-appealing to me even with their multiple configurations and scads of color offerings.

Speaking of colors, the enamel finishes offered by La Cornue for the 1908 (some at an upcharge) and the Chateax series are simply divine. Best of all the ranges I looked at, including Lacanche. I'd take the fewer colors offered by La Cornue followed by the Lacanche colors over the ton of colors offered by BlueStar anytime.

All three that I saw - La Cornue Chateaux 120, Cornufe 1908 and Cornufe 110 - were stunningly beautiful to look at. And the Chateaux 120 is a monster (which is what in the end kicks it out of my top picks. It would be over-build for the house and community we live in today). However, every single LaCornue/Cornufe had rough-moving, "squealing" oven racks and it drove me crazy! Even the sales woman warned me before I pulled out the rack in the 1908 that it would "hurt" my ears because they'd never cooked on it yet, so the racks weren't "greased up" and gliding smoothly. Think: fingers on chalkboard to the hundredth power! In all three ranges, including the Chateaux 120 which is used for weekly demos where I viewed it, the racks were difficult to move and screamed bloody murder when I pulled them out.
Also, the saleswoman said they'd had the 1908, specifically designed for the American market, in the showroom for about two years and have not sold ONE yet. By contrast, they've many of both the other models. Seems people see the CF110 as a better option over the 1908 because it is less costly, is the preferred dual fuel and has two ovens as opposed to one gas oven. Folks don't seem to care that the 1908 embodies the highly coveted LaCornue arched-top gas oven. In fact, the sales woman said most people chose their ranges just by their looks and actually had the pros choose the colors (to go with their pro-designed kitchens).

I knew more about the BlueStar and LaCornue/Cornufe ranges than each of their sales people (thank you Gardenweb), although this fact does not instill confidence!

The Wolf products are gorgeous. And, against my better judgement and usual preference for simplicity, I like all the gizmos. However, I am haunted by the issues with the oven interiors, as well as having to pay for the cachet of the name. The racks on the BlueStar had more heft than the Wolf racks.

I still love the Lacanche products. I just need to make an appointment to see one in person. I worry that the racks, which I know have been problematic for some owners, may give me reason to stay away. And, since their gas ovens do not have broilers, I must either go with double ovens/dual fuel, or go back to an electric wall oven.
*SIGH* There is STILL no perfect range!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Ooops, ChristyMcK, my last post was the long way of saying that like you, I'm a bit all over the map!

However, I agree, that if I go the Lacanche route, the Volnay/steam oven combo would be a perfect way to go. I love everything about the Volnay, EXCEPT, as I understand it, there is no broiler in the oven! Of course, I could go to a Chagny ... I love the many options offered by Lacanche.

Still, in addition to the no-broiler issue in the all-gas ranges, my hesitation with Lacanche concerns: 1) oven rack ease-of-use; 2) evenness of heat from closed burners; and, 3) low-simmer capabilities. These are all functions where I think not-as-pretty BlueStar trumps good-looking Lacanche.

I'm hoping some Lacanche owners may decide to chime in with their thoughts and experience ...


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Well, the racks on mine are okay - just racks. I am jealous of the new racks with rollers though. Heat evenness is also a function of the pan you are using. We use all-clad. We don't have much of an issue with that. I make rice on the small burner turned all the way down. No problem. If I'm simmering something in a large le cruset, again, no real issue. If it worries you, you can always get a simmer plate.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

joeboldt, I know what you're saying about being jealous about the rolling racks! I love them. Even so, do your "okay" regular ole Lacanche racks slide easily enough? Or, do they bug you every time you use them?

As far as pans go, I pretty much use use cast iron, the thickest/heaviest All-Clad (can't remember which series), Falk copper, Le Creuset, Staub and Emile Henry ceramics in the oven.

We cook rice for three (so it's a small amount in a small saucecpan each time) on the crappy electric burners we have now and it is easy to burn it to the bottom of the pan if you're not attentive ... good to know that you are able to simmer successfully on your Lacanche. Even so, part of the appeal of the Lacanche for me is the French plate. So that's all good.

If I could just get the BlueStar broiler and rolling racks in the Volnay oven, or a BlueStar wrapped within in a Lacanche skin, I'd be in heaven!

Thanks for your input.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

trinkette,

I've been looking at combi steam ovens and the new combi steam Miele has a broiler so that may take care of that concern. From what I call tell reading online, it looks similar to the Wolf in quality and price.

I also don't know entirely what to think about the evenness of heat from closed burners. I do think what joeboldt says about the quality of pan you are using being a big factor is true. Most of my pots and pans are Demeyere or Le Crueset so I think they'd be optimal.

I've also wondered about having a single 18k burner versus multiple 22k burner. For so long I've worked on cheap rental stoves that "I don't know what I don't know" and so it's hard to chose something with less BTUs because of the "what if" it would be great to have 22k power? But at the same time I'm not sure I'd simultaneously need 22k burners and I'm not sure the 18k and 22k is that much of a difference. Particularly since I don't often wok cook (although I didn't make pizza until I bought a pizza stone so it's hard to know!).

Best,
christy


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Christy, we're pretty much on the same page with regards to the burners. Of course, most of this stuff can't be answered until one actually uses the range in question.

I'll look into the combi steam oven. Sounds like a viable solution. Thanks!

I just have to figure out the racks.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

For what it's worth - I went with the BS, not the Cornufe. It was delivered yesterday. Still wrapped. I will let you know how it goes. I already KINDA have buyers remorse because ultimately I ended up getting a 24" Fagor wall oven for everyday use PLUS the range. why? Because my 36" gas DCS takes SO long to heat up I usually end up using my 12" portable pizza oven outside. I opted not for the Cornufe because I felt the oven was too small, which is now a nonissue with my 24" additional oven. I will let you know. I am so excited and can't wait to check it out....but it will be a while because I have to have the inspection to have gas turned on.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Oh - and 1 more note: I ordered the 24" Fagor on 12/16 online (appliance connection) and they still do NOT have the oven in stock from manufacturer yet. Supposedly they will get it this week. That's a bummer.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

TeeBeeNOLA, Congratulations! I understand your ambivalence about purchasing both range and wall oven, however, no doubt your new appliances will each be wonderful and your buyers remorse will be for naught.

Still, I must ask, what size BS do you have? And, please, why did you feel a BS alone would not do the job for you? Because it is gas, not electric? Also, was it the Cornufe 1908 that you passed-up? Or the 110?

Can't wait to hear more about your new BS/wall oven combo. Thanks for chiming in!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Hi trinkette et.al! I've been kind of lurking following everybody's trials and tribulations in the search for a perfect stove because I'm in the same boat. And it seems like the more I look, the more cofused I've become! Like trinkette, the "form" is super important to me, and also the function.
Just to share my recent experiences, here's what I was able to see/learn etc. Maybe you guys can chime back in with more input.
We live in the Bay Area, so I was fortunate enough to go up to San Francisco, where both a "real" La Cornue (as opposed to the CornueFe, no "dis' to the Cornue Fe intended-they're just different stoves)) AND a Lacanche were both on display (the Design Center, if anybody wants to know, and by an odd coincidence, the two stores were right across the hall from each other, which made window shopping super easy!).
The first store had a burgundy/red Cluny on display. In terms of build quality, I'd compare it to a Wolf (that's what I have right now), solid, but not a super tank. The french top had just one ring in the center as opposed to the la Cornue, which had three. The french top was a single piece of cast iron, kind of like a lid, that set over the burner. The stove top itself was a single base of steel, which means that if one burner spilled it would a) be easy to clean up, but b) would have run under all the burners. The oven, like most European ones, is smaller.
I had emailed the Lacanche rep a couple of days ago, and she mentioned that they also have a "pro" line (after six plus months, this is the first I've heard of it.) It's called the eCaumatin or something like that, and I should have info regarding it soon.
The LaCornue is gorgeous and extremely well built, but again, the ovens are smaller. The finsihing details are superior to the LaCanche in every way, but the price tag is greater also.
I'm also looking at Molteni (there is a model in the rep's home, again in San Francisco, that he does cooking demos on), but I'm concerned that the amenities I'd like in a stove will push it into the price of a new home!
I've contacted the Rorgue vendor (Gordon Ramsey has one of these). They will make you a stove in any size with any color and accessory you'd like. Although not cheap, they were not nearly as spendy as I thought they would be (about the cost of a LaCornue, and built again like a tank), so I'm going to Skype with the rep next week. Doesn't look exactly like a true french range though.
Last, I'm still in total lust/love with the Officine Gullo, which has both a home line(the depth is pretty standard) and a pro line (it's deeper, which is what i'm looking for for when I can with those big old pots, but you have to use a lighter to light the burners-they're designed to be left on during cooking, but it's not that big a deal). I was able to play with one on a visit to Miami, and all I can say is WOW! Gorgeous, well-made, sexy, tons of options. Not sure about oven lights-does the Lacanche have oven lights? I know that brand has made some recent changes. Hubby is NOT on board with any of the price points. Grr! Counting on trinkette's real life experiences to help guide me, as well as all your input. The clock is ticking-I need to decide soon! Help!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I have no connection with these folks, but the two Moltenis on Green Demolition seems to be down to one. (The other appeared to be larger, and was a bit less).

Here is a link that might be useful: Green demo


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Nice looking stove. But, $23,000. wow.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Oh - and 1 more note: I ordered the 24" Fagor on 12/16 online (appliance connection) and they still do NOT have the oven in stock from manufacturer yet. Supposedly they will get it this week. That's a bummer.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Fagor is out of production i thought. I have one waiting in the garage to be installed.
I was just looking to see if any info has changed...

Here is a link that might be useful: fagor


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I had been looking at the CornuFe 90 when I chose my BS rnb36". I didn't know about the 1908 til after I had been looking. I have a DCS 36" all gas range. THe oven takes FOREVER to warm up so my 12min cinnamon roll/bisquit in the morning becomes almost a 45 min ordeal - not happening. So I got the 24"wall oven that heats up so quickly (or so I hope) for all my quick bake things. It fits under my cabinet with a small pull out drawer below it. Perfect. I chose that over a speed oven.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

HadesHounds, thanks for your input. I was most interested to read your build comparison between Lacanche and La Cornue. Although, I must admit, even before reading your post I'd been thinking: after a certain point, does "super tank" really matter for my home range? I mean, its not like we're driving these things around and they need to be heavy for safety's sake! When I checked-out the La Cornue, for example, it just oozed uber-build; so much so that it was difficult to imagine it in my current home. It might be like putting a heavy-duty Tonka Toy in a Matchbox garage, so to speak. Certainly, there are homes out there (more grand than mine) that provide the perfect setting for a gorgeous super tank. However, my current place is of a scale and style that probably makes a less massive range more appropriate.

I'm looking forward to hearing more news of your range hunt!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

chesters_house, I'd been following the two Moltenis. It'll be interesting to see how long the smaller/pricier one lasts now ...


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

" Posted by joeboldt
Well, the racks on mine are okay - just racks. I am jealous of the new racks with rollers though
."

I'm not a big fan of rolling racks because I move my racks around a lot and they are a pain for that. My wall oven came with both and I keep one rolling rack on the bottom and a regular rack on top. I can add an additional one if need be.

" Posted by ChristyMcK
I also don't know entirely what to think about the evenness of heat from closed burners. I do think what joeboldt says about the quality of pan you are using being a big factor is true. Most of my pots and pans are Demeyere or Le Crueset so I think they'd be optimal.

It is a specific quality that makes a pan heat evenly, that being the ability of the metal the pan is made of to conduct heat. LeCreuset being cast iron does not conduct heat very well. The Demeyere would be better, but it is difficult to tell how much copper or aluminum is in the pan which would make it heat quickly and more evenly. Best would be heavy gauge copper$$$ and second to that would be heavy gauge aluminum$. Contrary to popular marketing strategies, the fact the burner is open has nothing to do with even heating. It is the configuration of the burner and the pattern of the heat in relation to the footprint of the pan. If you use cast iron , it will heat more evenly on a star shaped burner IF that burner is matched to the size of the pan. If the pan is too big, you will have a hot spot in the middle. You would might have a more even heat with a larger ring burner pattern. Most people want the ability to use most of their pans without considering if it will match the burner to heat evenly. Heavy copper or aluminum will maximize the performance of any burner if you are looking for evenness of heat. I have a big 15x23" two burner griddle made of heavy aluminum and it heats evenly wall to wall on sealed single ring burners. You can fill it with sandwiches to grill and they will all brown perfectly evenly.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Wekick: Thanks for the clarification - it makes sense. Depending on the Demeyere pot/pan there is either 2mm copper or 3 mm aluminum. There are other layers of other materials though so based on what you're saying an all aluminum or copper pan would do a better job. The Le Crueset isn't that responsive in my experience to changes in heat but it does seem to heat evenly (or maybe I just haven't noticed it doesn't!)

What do you think of burners with two concentric circles (e.g. Miele cooktop) rather than a star burner configuration?


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I took note that BlueStar ranges come with one rolling rack on the bottom and two non-rollers above, as you mention wekick. And I see your point about the rolling racks being a pain if you frequently reposition racks, as well as the logic for having just one roller on the bottom. I tend NOT to reposition my racks often, so this all would not have occurred to me. Glad you mentioned it.

Also, it's helpful to consider your comments about cookware; I'd say that with most of the burners I've used over the years, a good number of memorable "evenness issues" involved LeCreuset. I'll pay more attention during the weeks ahead (although our nasty counter-mounted electric cooktop is not level, so it creates it's own troubles). Thanks!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

The blue Molteni is sold! Not to me, you can be sure. But I'd wish it went to a Gardenwebber who would report back.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Well that didn't take long! I must admit, I thought about it for just a moment or two ...


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Ok more updates from your perfection-seeking gardenweb stove hunting friend! Sorry-long post!
I too saw the Moltenis on that recycling place, but by the time I actually got my hands on one up close and personal (more on that in a moment), it was sold. And it wasn't green-if I'm going to spend my kids' inheritance, I think it should be my favorite color.
So I live in the Bay Area, which is turning out to be stove shopping heaven. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are a lot of different high-end (and medium end) stoves to actually go and see- the Molteni, La Cornue and Lacanche to mention just three.
The Molteni rep lives in Oakland, and he graciously opened his home to my husband and I with very little notice to allow us to play with the stove and examine the construction. If you go to his website (it's separate from the "official" Molteni web page-the addy is www.frenchstoves.com), there's a pic in the slideshow that shows his actual stove. Not sure what model it is; hope someone more in the know than me can chime in here. The stove is white and there's a young man with his back to the camera cooking. Not sure if he's gift with purchase...lol
The stove is built like a tank-my husband was super impressed with the build quality. The rep really pointed out the key features, including how well the flame functioned around the pan without heat waste. As a chef, I can agree that it was functional and efficient. The flames stayed exactly where they should even witha change in pans, unlike my aging Wolf.
The true star of the show, and perhaps an incentive to those with less room and a more limited budget(that being a relative term with this stove-it's still very expensive compared to 'regular" stuff) was the coup de feu/french top.
On this model, the top is to one side, which not only allows the user to plop a multitude of pans on the actual surface, but also allows one to utilize even the stainless back edges for keeping things warm and low slow cooking. If you have a small space but need big performance, I would heartily encourage one to consider a french top. It blew us away, and I've cooked on the things!
The model we saw was a single oven which seemed to be a regular size-not huge, but certainly adequate. I don't think I could fit a 40 lb turkey in it (I cooked this size one year on my BBQ, and it bent the grill, but that's another story) but a regular 22ish lb. one would probably work just fine. The rep says he uses the oven bottom(the actual bottom, not the rack) as a sort of pizza stone, then when it's crispy, moves the pizza to the top to finish it. Neat!
He indicated that the oven was fabulous for roasting, but not so great for baking, so all of you have the right idea with ordering the second oven. I did think the Moltenis look a little, well, clunky. I know. Blasphemy.
Today I attended a Miele demo and got to see the induction cooktop(cool-literally), and the four ovens including a ?smart? steam oven (haven't had a chance to read through the literature yet. Will post more if anybody is interested. The chef cooked chicken, salmon, brussel sprouts, asparagus, broccoli and a nice little sauce-and we got to eat it all! The steam oven was amazing. The roller rack on the larger oven (it has a rotisserie too!) was smooth. Thank you trinkette et.al for pointing out the importance of this-didn't check it on all the appliances I looked at. The induction also comes in a single large burner hob that can be flush mounted, and the rumor is more ovens and appliances are due out in June. I'm Skyping with the Rorgue rep tomorrow-they have stoves in the same price range as a La Cornue, and will post my experiences with this if i'm not boring anybody.
Sorry I went on so long, but there's not a lot of input on some of these stoves out there, so I thought I'd chime in. As for BS, lots of people love them, but they are (at least the models I saw), like the Viking and Culinaire, a living nightmare to clean if you have a spillover IMHO (on this, I speak from sad first person experience. Last, a small La Cornue or Lacanche isn't overkill in a modest house-it's the charming jewel in the crown.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

HadesHounds, thank you for your post. And, no worries - an enlightening report can NEVER be too long! I'm still out here researching - painfully going back and forth in terms of what I "must have," juggling perceived performance, appliance build, integrity, and options as well as customer service with aesthetics and how it all ultimately fits into my house (the house is most definitely NOT my style BTW, so there's a bit of a disconnect there). Regardless, I'm looking forward to visiting a few working ranges soon.

I agree about the sageness of a French top, especially with a smaller range. And, I've considered a single, counter-mounted induction top along with whatever gas range I end-up with; interesting to read you are doing the same! A steam oven is not out of the question either. Still, I'm not sure that either, induction top or wall-mounted [steam] oven, is really necessary for my cooking needs.

Also, I understand the color issue that is often at play when shopping for pre-owned or demo ranges - I've passed on several that I might've otherwise purchased simply because the color was wrong for me. Like you, HadesHounds, if I'm spending a good chunk of change on something that I will see and use daily - hopefully for many, many years to come - I better like it each and every time I see it! If you're going with the enamel, color counts. I'd hate to go through all this range research,"settle" for a color, and end up feeling like if only I'd saved or spent more, I could've had what I "really" wanted.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I have had two of the aforementioned....in our last house (thinking it would be our LAST house), I had a LaCanche Sully...ivory. She was a beauty! And a workhorse...and house sold to a woman who couldn't care less. Doesn't cook and probably has sold it or something....(tears...ok, take a breath); in our new house, I have a CornuFe 110 in dark (and I mean DARK green)....it's beautiful! When I was deciding which stove I'd choose to replace the one that was already here, I knew that I wanted one or the other...or a Wolf. Now, I love the look of the French-style ranges and was extremely restricted on space in this kitchen....they still had to come in and cut down cabinets. Went with the CornuFe because of the two ovens. I cook a LOT and have a large family (there are 23 of us every Sunday for dinner...just the immediate family), so the two ovens are a necessity, even though there is still a 30" wall oven. I loved my Sully, but I love the CornuFe, also. I notice that the oven doors aren't nearly hot as the LaCanche, and that's important with all the little hands around here in the kitchen. The doors close securely and I have the same burners as I did on the Sully, but no French top.I had heard that the ovens took a long time to heat....not at all..in fact, I called Purcell Murray to ask about this before I bought the range....pretty fast time to get to the requested temp. My kitchen is not nearly as hot as it was with the Sully, either. Good luck with your choice; thought I'd post as I've had both of these ranges....both beautiful; the CornuFe has had several disparaging remarks that I've seen, but I have no idea why....I'm really picky and this range has done everything I wanted it to do! Mostly, it's going to be a matter of personal choice!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gigi7, I am so glad you decided to share your experience! And how fortunate you are to have lived with and used daily both of these lovely ranges. Now, it'd be so much easier of you'd written that you were UNhappy with one!

I'm curious, were ovens in the Sully gas, electric or one of each? Also, do you have convection in your Cornufe ovens?

Because you don't mention it I assume that for you - with the exception of the difference in the oven door temps - there were no other significant differences between the two, ie, the racks, grates or build of one brand/model don't stand out in any bad or good way from the racks, grates or build and etc, of the other brand/model. Correct?

Finally, in your experience, do you find one range to be a slightly better fit for certain dishes or cooking/baking styles?

Thanks again for your comments. : )


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Dear trinkette et. al, thanks for the props-I need 'em right now! We are sooo on the same wavelength-looking at and considering all the same things. What do I "have" to have, what do I lust for? I still have the rest of our pretty extensive remodel to pay for!
In regards to french tops/coup de feus/whatever the sales people want to call them; There is a quite a variation on what the manufacturer considers its' function.
I had tentatively scheduled an actual cooking demo at Purcell-Murray to test drive the La Cornue french top, and when I e-mailed the rep she was kind enough to send pictures and technical details.Seems that La Cornue has toned down the power(7500 btu's) "to allow a true simmer plate". There is also no cement or bricks under there as best I can tell (though this may be a difference in approach to the heat distribution, as OG also does not; there IS a metal plate under both the aforementioned, unlike the Molteni, which should make cleanup a breeze!) Maybe I'm missing something, but in restaurants, they don't use all that real estate to simmer stuff, but rather to actually cook it! Then you'd slide it further from the heat source to finish, stay warm, whatever. It's not supposed to be a giant warming platter!
Contrast that to Molteni's 20 thousand-ish (don't have the exact number off the top of my head) BTU's, Officine Gullo's stggering 36K, and Rorgue's similar to Molteni firepower. Rorgue uses bricks and mortar rather than cement underneath, on the theory that cement will crack. Rorgue also has some sort of water pan under the burners that flushes, thus keeping everything , spills included, super clean. All the stoves are about the same price, feature for feature, including the La Cornue, so if you can afford that, you can afford the others. Hope this tidbit was informative. So help me out-my architect is having kittens waiting for me! Ugg! who'a thunk something so fun could be turning into such a PITA!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Good stuff, HadesHnds. Also, I've noticed that BTUs for a French top may be slightly less if you use liquid propane as opposed to natural gas.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Yes, fuel source ( and having it adjusted correctly!) is key to cooking the best out of your appliance, no matter the cost.While I was at Percell-Murray, the rep ( she was awesome!) mentioned how many complaints she gets on appliances when like 99% of the time it's user error or failure to maintain.Bombe pots and pans really help too.I LOVE my All -Clad Copper Core! Supposedly there's an outlet that sells them for a great price. Not sure if I found it here or on Chowhound.
Off to make a spreadsheet to compare my choices...ugh sgain.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Hi, trinkette....yes, if I had hated or at least been a little dissatisfied with one or the other, it WOULD be easier!!! LOL...however, that's not the case...they are both beautiful...BEAUTIFUL!! You can probably search and find that I had asked on this forum about 3 years ago what anyone's experience here had been with the CornuFe, since I'd had the LaCanche..my issue was with SPACE..I didn't have that issue in the other house as we gutted the kitchen to the studs. Where did I find out about LaCanche? RIght here....gardenweb...on this and the Kitchens forum...and I read every single post...for months! I was cautioned to wait and buy another LaCanche...no one had anything nice to say about CornuFe...but I did do research...and called personally Purcell Murray and a couple of owners here....and, wanting the look I wanted, chose my CornuFe...and it's used every single day, cleaned every single day, and loved every single day; as was my Sully! My range is dual fuel, both ovens are convection and I have to use my cheat sheet still to do the left-side oven....it's no big deal....need my glasses!! Not complicated at all! LOL...they cook beautifully....and I've done it all in here...from turkey and dressing to cream puffs and pies and lava cakes....bread nearly every single day.....that's the way I cook....all from scratch. Just define your cooking style and go for it...you really can't lose with either! I promise! No, no problems with pans; got the new turkey roaster from Williams-Sonoma this holiday season and it rocked! The most wonderful turkey ever! But, was it the oven or the roasting pan? Maybe both? Easy to clean? Yes...takes time, yes...but anything worthwhile DOES take time, right? The size of this is almost 43"...my Sully was almost 60"....about 59", I think....so I lost some oven space and the French top...but other than that? Nothing...burners completely comparable! I did get oven thermometers and tested the pans on the top with the gas heat...perfect performance. I use All-Clad pots and pans; have Staub dutch ovens; various other odds and ends...especially my beloved cast iron skillets. All do quite well! So my opinion? buy what you love....get the look you love! You will be happy any way you go!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gigi, can you talk a little bit about your former french top and whether you liked it, used it etc? Any input would be great!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Honestly, I rarely used it, only ONLY because my kitchen (which was 400 sq. ft) got so hot...and yes, I used it when there were a lot of pots to heat....or keep hot, as at Thanksgiving or Christmas....nice? yes...do I have to have it? no...absolutely not! Does it look cool? YES, absolutely yes!! So...was this help? Probably not...lol...but it's way fun to decide!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gigi7 - This is really great information! Thank you so much for posting. We can accommodate a 39 to 42 (maybe 43) range in our existing space and I've been eyeing the Volnay + second oven (Gagg/Miele). Your input is great reassurance that I can't go wrong with a Lacanche or CornuFe.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gigi7, your comments are extremely helpful, even though they are NOT, lol. I've read GW for many, many years and was all set years ago to purchase a Lacanche. And the folks at Art Culinaire are a delight to deal with. Then our life went upside down and plans changed. This time around, I'm taking more time and exploring ALL the options to be sure I'm not letting form steal my heart over function. I'm heartened to see that Lacanche is still one of my top choices.

Also, as you mention, I recall the slams that the Cornufe range line received around here; I never quite understood what the problem was. As far as I know, the line has never pretended to be anything other than what it is. And I don't remember much ever written about the actual performance.

Anyway, in all fairness, if it were ONLY about function, I'd be tempted to go with BlueStar. And I may still. I've completely come around and, at this point, actually prefer all-gas to dual fuel. However, as fabulous as I think BS ranges are - and I do love their open burners and I do think they are actually EASIER to clean and I like the fact that they are manufactured just a few hours away from where I live - I just can't see one in the kitchen I'm envisioning. And, most likely, I'm not a savvy enough cook to need or fully appreciate any superior performance the BS may have over the European models I'm considering. Still, BS is another range at the top of my list. I wish they offered the Platinum series in the 36" size. I might have pulled the trigger a few weeks ago.

But time marches on, and I am still undecided.

Back to the French ranges: Gigi7, did you have gas ovens in your Sully? Also, are you bothered at all by noise from the convection in the Cornufe (and the Sully if you had convection there). Like sticky, squeaky racks, convection noise is an added consideration for me.

On a different note, FWIW, I think La Cornue may have misjudged the American market a bit with the pricing/marketing of the 36" Cornufe 1908, which I understand was created and sized expressly for the US market. It's got the coveted Chateaux gas oven in the Cornufe frame with Cornufe top - this single, fancy gas oven in the 1908 makes the unit considerably higher in price than the single electric oven Cornufe 90. Okay, I get it. However, the 1908 is also priced considerably higher than the dual fuel, dual-oven Cornufe 110. With about a $4K-plus difference (if I remember correctly), I can see many potential buyers choosing the less pricey dual-fuel with TWO ovens over the all-gas single oven 1908, especially if they are not sold on gas or don't have access to gas. And, as someone who actually prefers gas, I see myself seriously considering the electric oven 110 over the gas 1908 as well. I'm thinking, how many folks considering these ranges are going to distinguish significant performance differences between the Chateaux oven in the 1908 and the electric oven(s) in the rest of the Cornufe line? As you said, Gigi7, your electrics perform wonderfully for you.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gigi7: I remember reading your posts while I was appliance shopping -- so good to see it is still working out for you.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gigi, can you talk a little bit about your former french top and whether you liked it, used it etc? Any input would be great!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gigi, can you talk a little bit about your former french top and whether you liked it, used it etc? Any input would be great!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Trinkette, for what it's worth, I was checking out a Volnay yesterday and observed it with the convection fan on - I would not call it noisy at all. Just audible, but very low and muffled when the door is closed.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I'm so sorry, y'all, that I haven't responded sooner..have had a little bit of the "crud", sore throat, etc...so...oh, goodness, I DID neglect to report on the noise level...my VERY VERY favorite difference? Between the two LOVELY ranges? My CornuFe goes OFF when I turn the oven OFF....no noise. No NOTHING!!! OMG, I can tell you, I love that! That's one thing with the Sully: the noise level of those oven fans drove me crazy!!! Sorry, maybe mine was worse than others, but yes,very noticeable and I used to leave those doors open (EVERY night) so they could cool off sooner...even though they would heat up the kitchen (and in the middle of a West Texas summer, this was no small thing)...And to address the French top: I really didn't use it as much as I should have, but it WAS nice when prepping multiple pots. I don't miss it really...but that's just me. I did test all ovens with an oven thermometer before I used them to see if they were accurate and all of them were spot on and I didn't have any "hot spots", either. Would I purchase another Lacanche? Oh, sure! I think you get more choices with Lacanche than you do with CornuFe, and of course way more color choices. What's not to love? and the folks at Art Culinaire are very helpful, too! I neglected to say that earlier! So much is just a matter of personal taste and what's important to you!


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Trinkette: I have a hard time imagining the BS in our kitchen as well. It's a 1956 artdeco/midcentury style and we are not doing a full remodel in part so I can splurge on dream appliances. Still I have a hard time forgoing those 22k open burners. Like you I'm not sure I'd be able to appreciate the difference between a 22k BS burner over a 18.5k btu Lacanche burner. Yet I'm not sure I won't be able to tell (or care about) the difference, which makes choosing something over the BS hard. I've always been a function over form kind of person. The main downside I see is the 36" BS has a very big oven which will take a lot more time to heat up than the smaller ovens in the french ranges and on a daily basis I think this would be very frustrating. Although I do plan on getting a steam combi oven I don't want to buy a range with an oven I'll rarely use - it's seems like a waste.

Achaeur: Lucky you re: seeing the Volnay - It's what I keep coming back to. Its the exact same size as our existing range and I like the idea of having the warming cupboard. I was considering a gas oven but now that I'm going to get a combi-steam oven I have an oven that provides moister heat so am on the fence about whether I should go electric or gas.

I'm off to see the Lacanche ranges this week. I'm very much looking forward to it!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

The Lacanche convection fans have a toggle switch now, so you can turn them on and off as desired.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Hi Garden Webbers! I hope I'm not boring anybody to death here with my updates, but I wanted to let those that might be interested to know that I went up again to Oakland and this time I actually cooked on the Molteni! It's the funniest thing-I'm a more than capable cook, didn't plan a super complex meal and came with almost all the ingredients and tools I needed, but I still felt like a kindergardener when faced with the Molteni and the owner's amazing kitchen. It wasn't the stove-it's very basic to use with plenty of power and room. It was me.
The oven the rep had (his name is Michael and he is so kind and knowledgable!He's taken the time to respond promprtly to my every query, no matter how trivial) is an electric one (you can pick either gas or electric. He has a smaller galley kitchen, so his reasoning was that he could use it both as an oven and a salamander, since it has two seperate elements.)and holy cow!-it was a beast!
I let him lead the way (he doesn't bake, but he loves it for roasting) and we popped my brownies in. All did not go well-they were cremated, but I think truly that it was user error-both of ours, and primarily mine, as I was distracted by all the things the coup de feu could do)-rather than the oven's fault. I seem to recall reading a Lacance or La Cornue owner that had the same issue until they realized not to bake with both elements on. I'll have to track that post down.
On to the french top.As I mentioned above, many vendors have dumbed down the plaque and turned it into some sort of wimpy warming plate, which isn't the point of the whole thing. Not so with the Molteni-it was a true super giant multi zoned cooking surface. My two types of rice (I cooked them in two different pans to see what would happen) came quickly to a boil, then we slid them waaaaay off to the side to gently simmer and steam. I seriously could have fit ten pans into that medium sized space because every inch is a cooking surface.There IS a learning curve though. You have to fire up the top in advance of your cooking because it takes a while to heat up. The rep does his prep work during this time, plus he does have two regular gas burners on the stove for quick cooking. You also have to learn where the hotter and cooler parts are, but this doesn't look like it will be hard.
The ovens, the burners, and the plaque can all be adjusted temperature wise, so I don't want anyone to think subtlty isn't a possibility on this brand.
Am waiting for quotes on the Gullo as well as definite specs so I can compare. Hope someone out there finds this helpful. Trinkette, how goes your search? You really should consider the Lacanche. It was just too shallow on the cooktop end to fit my super giant pots.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Well, I had a similar experience on a Lacanche today. I burned myself and burned a pot - both total user errors. I learned that a french plate is not where you should boil water. I am definitely not a chef. But I had a lovely time and was very impressed with the Lacanche. I made an omelet, boiled water, made cookies, stir fried veggies, melted chocolate and generally got an overall feel for the range. It's an entirely different beast than my 1950s coil electric range. Although to be fair, my largest burner can bring a pot of water to boil pretty fast and the oven heats up pretty quickly.

I think my test omelet was the best omelet I've ever made. If I get a Lacanche (likely) I think I might call her Judy after Judy Rogers. I have learned so much technique (including how to cook an omelet) from the Zuni Cafe Cookbook and was so sorry to hear of her recent death. Anyway, I digress. I left there just thrilled with it. I haven't had the same feeling after seeing the blue star (thought admittedly I haven't cooked on it). I think there is something about the beauty, fit and finish that speaks to me. And the power relatively to what I am used to is P-L-E-N-T-Y for this sometime forgetful and not always coordinated cook. I definitely confirmed that the 39" Volnay + combi-steam oven would be a great fit for our needs. I took my bigger cookware to make sure it could fit simultanenously and perfectly centered on the burners of the 5-burner range top and had no problem fitting all of it on there perfectly. My 'big' cookware includes mostly 12" and 10" wide casseroles and stockpots. Hadeshound is probably using bigger cookware.

Not quite ready to pull the trigger but definitely headed in that direction. I'll probably go with the classique since I'm not trained to use a french plate, want the ability to boil big pots of water fast, and because it comes with a simmer plate that I can use ad hoc across two burners. My burning question now is whether to get the gas oven or the electric/convection oven if my second oven is a combi-steam oven. Opinions?


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I've learned so much through this forum, thanks for all the postings! We have to replace our wall oven/microwave unit and I'm DONE IN with researching all the options.Unfortunately, price is a serious consideration - Miele being on the high end of what we can spend. My husband is sold on the DCS double oven unit but we're new to the brand and haven't read much in the way of reviews. Although we adore our 5-burner Wolf cooktop the wall ovens don't seem to be getting good marks. We have to move on ordering something so...help! Can anyone weigh in on the DCS, Wolf, Electrolux...or anything else? Our one demand, it needs to have a Proof (85-110) option.
Thanks!


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Dear Port, I found a couple of brand new last-year's model Mieles on eBay for a really great price. They have warranties and everything. So maybe if you have champagne tastes and a beer budget, you could consider that. I was able to attend a live Miele cooking demo, and I was very impressed. I'm tryng to set up one for Gaggenau and Thermador too (they're very similar, but I want to understand the features. I'm also shopping for a second oven, so I'll be following your adventures!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Gardenwebbers, how goes your search? The stove quotes are rolling in, and now the DH is waffling ("Don't you want one of those Wolfs?"-"No.") Christy McK, did you pull the trigger on a Lacanche? I think it sounds like the perfect stove for you!
If anybody is looking for a french stove with an island configuration, eBay has a Caumartin (spelled wrong in the search bar, so maybe that's why it's still there-yes the stove has an "a" in it) for an amazing price/ Starting price point is $5K, with a Buy it now option for $8. It's a $40 K stove.
Ok, just checked my ebay and it went from "starting bid $5000/buy it now $8K to a higher number. Not cool, but still a pretty good buy.
Here's the link if anybody is interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/French-Range-Cooking-Island-E-Coumartin-Burgundy-France-/271421815132?pt=BI_Commercial_Ovens_Ranges&hash=item3f3200395c
This person bought this item from Art Culinaire, the west coast Lacanche dealer when they carried these stoves.
Trying to decide between a Molteni, an Officine Gullo, and Rorgue (waiting on that quote, plus a Caumartin quote.) Bonnet was the bomb but at least $18k ABOVE the staggering prices of other vendors. As a side note, if you Google Molteni, you get all these articles proclaiming "World's most expensive stove", and "Would you spend $100,000 on a stove?" Then they show a picture of a stove that retails for the low $40's. The "$100,000s" are all the extras you can add into the kitchen-vacumn sealers, rotisseries....the list goes on. Talk about hype! Am absolutely sick trying to compare apples to apples, do the research etc.yah, yah, there could be worse dilemmas, but sure am hearing it from the hubster (who doesn't cook).


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Hades: Haven't pulled the trigger. We're meeting with contractors and finding out that what we want to do isn't necessarily that cost effective. We want that nailed down before we buy the range. As of late I've been drooling over the french blue color.


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Hi gang,
I've been traveling due to family circumstances and haven't checked-in for a bit. However, I'm still out here on the hunt for my perfect range!

I'm curious to know how the search is going ChristyMcK, HadesHounds and others. Anyone made a decision yet? All the posts here have been extremely helpful.

Okay, so, it took me MONTHS, but I finally got to see a Lacanche at an ambassador's home. The range was abut six years old and the owner seemed to have cooking interest/skill pretty close to mine (ie, neither one of us is remotely interested in cleaning the ovens, lol). It was good to see an "in use" range.

I had to chuckle, before I went to see the range, I had no idea what model it would be or what color; seems the owner couldn't remember either. Turns out it was a Cluny in what was most likely Terra Cotta. And I must say, much to my surprise, the color was quite lovey; it matched the beautiful brick exterior of the owner's antique home - tying indoors and outdoors together - as well as the tile on her floor. If you have an older home, or one with a rustic brick, Terra Cotta is a color to consider. It was not nearly as harsh a color as I'd expected. And it was a lovely contrast to the creams and blues in the owner's home.

After years of looking at Lacanche's online and reading GW posts, I was heartened to see that the actual range was exactly as I thought it would be. Except for being pleasantly surprised by the Terra Cotta color, there were no surprises - good or bad - at all. So I feel confident in saying that f you read all the GW info regarding Lacanche, you will have a thorough understanding of these ranges.

Oh sorry - gotta go for now. I've got a little more to report, so I'll continue when I get back ...


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Trinkette - good to hear your update. I'm a bit obsessive (that might be an understatement!) so I've continued to read, reread, and reread gardenweb threads and to look at different Lacanche ranges online (they're so gorgeous!). I am spending way too much of my life doing this. :)

I keep coming back to the same combination of the Volnay with a combi steam oven, which gives us two ovens and a warming cupboard + a 5-burner cooktop. I'm going to go with the classique because we water bath can in the summer and I think having that big high heat burner would be more useful for our style of cooking. DH wants what I want on this one.

I'm also considering the Cluny 1400 but I keep thinking I'd rather have a steam oven and the larger Volnay oven. The Cluny would give me a french plate but it would also reduce precious counter space. The Volnay and my current range are the exact same size and the steam oven will fit in an unused dumb waiter (circa 1939) leaving the existing counter space unaffected.

My biggest question right now is whether to get a gas oven or an electric oven in the Volnay. I'm leaning toward an electric oven since it has a broiler. We currently use our broiler when we make pizza, which is often. But, we roast more than we bake so that makes me think a gas oven would be better, especially since the steam oven is also an electric oven. But the steam oven would be a moist heat oven so I keep going around and around in circles on this. Any opinions?
I wish the gas oven had a broiler.

This will be our first renovation and I'm a bit scared to pull the trigger since there are several parts (getting natural gas put in, changing out oil furnace, altering existing cabinetry, etc). But then I get super excited about finally have my dream cooking appliances. French Blue is the current favorite in terms of color. Miele combi steam oven is the current favorite for that appliance. Decision date TBD. :)


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

ChristyMcK, I can't write for long just now (I WILL be back with more, I promise), however I want to quickly say to you that the quandary about the Lacanche gas oven without broiler vs. Lacanche electric oven with broiler has been a sticking point for me. Ideally, I'd like a gas oven with a broiler. Not going to happen with Lacanche. So, if I stick with Lacanche, because I really do want a gas oven (especially if it is Lacanche), I must add another [electric] oven in the range for a dual-oven range, most likely without a warming cabinet because this would give me a larger oven than I want, OR I add a separate wall oven which takes up precious kitchen space I'd rather not dedicate to an oven - which is where I was when this thread began! *SIGH* At the moment, I'm thinking a Cluny with one gas and one electric oven might just be the best Lacanche solution for me.

To that end, no matter how much I may like a certain range model - regardless of brand - when I start getting down to the nuts and bolts of what features I want, what works for our house, what fits in the space, what appeals to me design-wise, and what we feel comfortable spending (taking into account the additional expense of a fan/vent/hood) there is always something that doesn't "fit" the plan, unless, of course, I want to shell out $37K+ for a La Cornue Chateau or similar.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Trinkette: I wonder why the Lacanche gas ovens don't have a broiler. I'd go with that option too if they had it and would prefer it over the electric since we don't bake that much.

You might consider a small 24" oven (steam or otherwise). They are only ~18" tall and the interior cavity is just a bit smaller than the cluny ovens. Not to make your choice harder but with the two cluny ovens you don't get low temps (80F) for proofing bread, making yogurt, though this might not matter to you.

At the end of the day, you are right - it really has to fit with your context and budget and what trade offs you are willing to make given your space.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

ChristyMcK, proofing bread and making yogurt were two reasons I thought a warming cupboard would be most useful. I'd love to have one, however, I'm not sure I want to add the component to the REST of the components that I desire - not only does the range begin to get bigger than I need for my small family, but also, the size and expense of a hood must be considered.

If Lacanche made a gas oven with broiler, I'd get that in a heartbeat, plus a warming cabinet. We'd be done!

For what it is worth, the Cluny owner with whom I recently visited said she regularly bakes bread in her electric oven (she admitted to just about never using the gas oven and it showed!) and she is extremely happy with her range. She proofs dough by setting the electric oven to the lowest temp, 150 degrees, and letting it warm-up. Then she puts the dough inside and turns the oven off while the dough rises. Also, she said that she has forgotten to turn-off the oven on occasion and it all worked out just fine.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I've also heard that putting a hot cup of water in the oven at the lowest temp which is then turned off also helps the proofing. I've had many a useful yogurt maker over the years so it's definitely not a necessity. Do you really think a gas oven is that different? They say gas is moist and electric dry but over the years using both in different homes I'm not sure I can actually tell. None of these ranges were special - just in rentals - and none had convection. I could see how convection might dry things out but I think the Volnay has a toggle so I could choose convection or not. Anyway, the journey continues!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

As far as the gas vs. electric oven goes, I am by no means an expert on the matter and I know there are *experts* out there with years of cooking/baking experience who swear allegiance to one or the other. When I began this thread, I wanted a dual fuel range - basically a gas cooktop with electric oven and broiler. If I couldn't have the electric broiler or a great electric oven in the range, then I was willing to add a wall oven. Then, as I thought about my own experiences and gleaned more information via my research, I decided that I really might prefer just one oven, and I'd prefer it to be gas. Only, I'd like the gas to have a broiler (Bluestar and La Cornue fit the bill here, but I still liked the Lacanche with the gas oven, so I was back to considering the addition of a wall oven, which I can do, but it really complicates the space in my kitchen).

Also when I began, I was willing to pile on whatever range components I wanted, ie, if I needed a 42" or larger range to get all the specific burner and oven elements I was looking for then so be it (French plate, four burners - one with low simmer and one high-heat producer - warming oven, gas oven, electric oven with broiler ... my list was endless). However, now, I've changed my approach. I'm trying to whittle-down on size and components to try to get the range as "lean and mean" as I can while still having everything (or near-everything) I want. And this is not necessarily about the money - although it is a part of the puzzle.

The plain truth is, I have a very small family and a small kitchen prep area. So smaller is better. And if we ever move, a large range may not appeal to potential buyers and it may not fit into wherever I land next. However, a smaller range is easier to take with me - or leave behind. Yes, I could put in a larger model range - like the Lacanche Sully models - the range could span an entire wall (omitting the need for lower cabinets), and it would look great. But, again, I get into issues of how desirable such a range is for resale of my specific home (which is NOT fancy or large), practical issues including the weight of such a sizable range on my already sagging floor, and the expense of a properly sized vent and hood, not to mention MUA issues.

In the end, it may be that trying to whittle-down the size right now is just part of the process. I could still land somewhere in the middle - the dual-oven Lacanche Cluny is a VERY solid option. Or I could go whole hog and end up with the Sully 2200. Or La Cornue. Time will tell. It is all about juggling cost, practicality, aesthetics, and performance with my expectations and being able to live happily with my decision in the end.

Regarding convection, I'm very sensitive to noise, and the house I'm in now already has annoyingly loud systems. So I'm willing to forgo whatever gain the convection brings to the table just for the sake of my ears. If what I end up with comes with convection, then, certainly, I'll give it a try. And I may prefer it. But for now, the convection is not a must-have.

Of course, ChristyMcK, "the journey" is half the fun!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Thoughts after visiting a Lacanche ambassador with a Classique Cluny range in terra cotta:

The Good:
• Owner said she LOVES her range. She has one electric and one gas oven (I don't THINK the electric is convection).
• Owner uses electric oven regularly and rarely uses gas oven.
• Owner admitted to doing minimal cleaning/care for range.
• Range looks just as I expected it would - thanks to GW reports and Art Culinaire info.
• Range is lovely to look at overall. Brass hardware was patinated.
• Owner proofs and bakes bread in electric oven regularly and is pleased with results.
• Owner uses two mid-range burners most frequently.
• Oven doors to smaller Cluny ovens take-up minimal space when open - something that could make a significant difference in a tight space.
• Smaller sized Cluny ovens appear amply sized for most uses.
• Smaller scale oven racks were easy to glide out and moved smoothly. Owner showed how racks, and brackets on oven walls, could be adjusted easily.
• Owner pointed out heavy double-burner grates and said they were easy to move about and clean. They were in like-new condition.
• Owner loved "simplicity" of her range operations.
• Owner was very pleased with Art Culinaire and service.

The Worth Noting:
• Owner admitted that when range was newer (said she thought it was about 6 years old now), she'd had two separate issues that required servicing. I am not remembering EXACTLY what they were, so I am not going to mention specifics, however, there were issues that needed fixing.
• Owner's range showed large scratches on stainless surfaces. This is not a product issue, but more of a user issue, however, I thought I'd mention it. Stainless looked great otherwise.
• The range I saw had the top-rear-mounted stainless wall spacer attached, which put the range several inches away from the wall behind it. Her range was set alongside a doorway, so that when next to the range, you could easily see the side of the range as well as the 6 inches, or so, of open space behind the range, under the spacer. Owner said she'd been surprised when her range arrived to see the spacer and to see how far the range set from the wall - of course this impacts how far it juts out from the counter as well. It also impacts the floor space in front of the range, especially when an oven door is open. None of this is a problem, it just needs to be taken into account when you plan your kitchen space. I said I thought the spacer was necessary because her wall behind the range was not heat/fire-proof and that there are other options.
• Owner said burners are HOT and she would benefit from using a diffuser at times.
• Owner wishes she'd gotten the French plate or Traditional model as opposed to the Classique; she is interested in the simmer capabilities of the French plate, especially because the burners are all relatively hot, and she uses the big burner infrequently - usually with a HUGE Le Creuset round pot.
• When I sat at the table and looked sideways at the range, I noticed the oven doors and drawers below were not all lined-up. They looked somewhat "wonky," if that makes sense. Owner agreed, but said she still loves her range. I'm thinking she might have said that this happened during servicing (when one door was taken off). However, again, I'm not sure I'm remembering her words exactly. Moreover, I know that the lower drawers are soft-close now, so this may be a non-issue.
• Owner expressed what many other owners have written in GW, something like: "It's not perfect, but I LOVE my Lacanche." This "it's not perfect" or "It's not for everyone" preamble concerned me for awhile. But then I decided that most Lacanche owners seem to have a realistic view of their ranges and graciously accept their imperfections, if there are any. Somehow, the loveliness and overall performance of the range along with the care and attention put forth by the folks at Art Culinaire seem to outweigh everything else.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Trinkette, Thank you for the excellent review of the Cluny you visited! I have researched so many ranges, cooktops and ovens, but I keep returning to the Lacanche. I have yet to see one in person, although I recently learned there was one within a 10 minute walk of where I lived last. Unfortunately, I wasn't in the market for a range then and I had no idea it was so close! Not seeing one in person makes your review even more important to me! Are you any closer to deciding?


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

"it's not perfect" or "It's not for everyone"

We've had ours since 2005, and I would agree with that statement. But, somewhere along the line you just have to think you've done enough analysis and buy something. There is no question in my mind I wouldn't buy the exact same stove.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

joeboldt, I've been thinking about you and your pizza-baking Cluny - since we regularly make pizza here, you affirmation that it can be done successfully in the smaller ovens is noteworthy.

And, I agree with your comment about there being a time to finish-up the analysis and buy something. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm there (well, ALMOST!), although I'll be waiting just a few more weeks/months in order to finish-up the rest of our remodeling plans before I jump.

Regardless, now that you've brought it up, joeboldt, I'm eager to learn what range you'd purchase today if you had to do it all over again?


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Cori4137, glad I could help. I realize my posts are lengthy, so my apologies for that!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Sorry, trinkette, terrible sentence. I would buy the exact same stove. Burgundy cluny.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Ahhh, joeboldt, I get it! Thanks. FWIW, I understand your attraction and loyalty to the Cluny. It's where I began years ago and now, after thoroughly checking out dozens of ranges from various brands and price points, I find myself right back where I began ...


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

I have been meaning to post something for awhile now and this seemed as good a place as any. So many people on this forum were so helpful when we were picking out appliances so I felt the need to put in my 2 cents. We looked at every "french style" range out there. I will admit, my decision was based purely on looks. My goodness, I fell hard when I saw a picture of one of these! And yes, we bought the Sully 1800 sight unseen. We had seen a La Cornue and a CornuFe, a Blue Star, an Aga and maybe one other Italian brand. We ended up building the kitchen around it (literally and figuratively). It is the focal point and we had to bring it in and then finish building the walls to the kitchen. It is never leaving this house will all the kitchen walls intact!

We chose the Sully 1800 with the warming cabinet. I wanted a model with two full sized ovens so that I would not need wall ovens. We have a french top which we never use - it was the extra burner over the warming drawer - perhaps someday I will figure out what to use it for but as of now, I don't really need it. I cook every day - at least two meals a day. We have a large family and I am frequently cooking for 8-10 and we have 5 burners open for every day use. I am not positive of the exact numbers. We use the 18,000 burner with a 14" pan at least once a day. WE debated getting the la planche (I think that's what it's called - the built in grill) but opted for the cast iron plate and the splash guard. We love it! Pancakes, hamburgers, grilled chicken...BUT its REALLY heavy - I would only get it if you have room to leave it out all the time as we do.

So what else - ours is black. I did NOT chicken out of a color. Had black not been the default color, I would have chosen black anyway. I LOVE color, but I like changing color and I did not want to stove to always dictate the colors of the kitchen.

I was surprised how well everything worked. We have never had it serviced. Our appliance installers found it simple to install (or at least no different than other gas stoves). It is level, the grates are heavy and stay in place. The brass has patina, except for the two burners under the iron grill plate.

We have a gas oven (used infrequently, but it works well) and an electric with convection. I do not find the convection fan to be loud. We use the convection oven very frequently. WE do have to take the racks out a lot. There are three racks per oven so unless you're baking three racks of cookies at once (which I have done - works great!) you need to remove racks for larger cookware.

I am not a neat freak - but I do clean the top about every day or every other day pretty thoroughly. The stainless is not a shiny stainless that shows everything, it has a brushed finish so that it looks great even if there are som e scratches or streaks.

Only thing I thought I would love and don't is the warming oven. It says that it has moist heat to keep food from drying out but I haven't seen that to be true. It's pretty narrow so only certain trays or plates will fit into it. Actually, I found a recent use which I like a lot - our crock pot got broken so I'm using the warming drawer and a le crueset dutch oven as a slow cooker.So far working pretty well!

It does sit about 6 inches from the wall but we had a fabulous kitchen designer who took everything into consideration and made sure the flanking cabinets were deeper than normal. We also purchased the "island spacer" so that the backs plash (which is a marble slab) comes all he way down to the counter.

It works best with a powerful range hood and ours works great but it it definitely loud!

I can't think of what else to say other than I love it. In my mind there are no downsides or imperfections (except the price!), other than the fact that there aren't self cleaning ovens. BTW - anyone out there have a suggestion for a product to clean the inside of the oven?!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Workingondreamhouse,
Thank you for sharing, your Lacanche experience. I cook for 6 everyday, so hearing you can cook for 8-10 with only the Sully is very promising. I am surprised about your comments on the warming drawer. Although, my main reason for wanting it is for slow cooking. But, your comments have made me decide I should measure my plates to see how they will fit. I am considering the Citeaux that has an oven the same size as the warming drawer, so the size could be a factor.

I also am a big fan of the black for the same reasons as you, black goes with everything. I do love some of the colors though as does my husband and a color would be a big statement. But, I need to decide if I'd love the color in years to come.

It is very reassuring to hear that you bought the range sight in seen and
that overall you love it! I have yet to see a Lacanche in person, but hope
to this summer. It's such a major investment, it just has to be right as I will have to live with it for a very long time!

May I ask how long you have had your range?

Thank you again for sharing your experiences!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Cori4137
You will love it, the black is beautiful. To prove my point, I would pick a different color now than I would have 2 years ago!

Just to clarify, we have the Sully 1800 which is huge (72” long) with 5 slots for burners. We have 7 burners (3 double, one large single) and the frenchtop. The ovens are large enough for anything we have tried, including 25lb turkeys.

Our range was installed 5/2012 and it gets quite a work out on a daily basis. Its really easy to use, even my kids can use it without difficulty.

The gas oven is a little tricky to figure out how to turn on and I don’t understand why there is not a “preheat” light for the gas oven, only the electric oven. Just seems strange. We don’t use it that often so its really not a big deal.

The warming drawer is pretty narrow and we seem to leave it on all night when I use it because the kids forget to turn it off, but that’s probably just my family!

ENJOY!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Workingondreamhouse, thanks for your input! I'm most interested to read your take on the warming cabinet. It's something I'd like to use in several ways, however, I'm considering leaving it off in favor of two ovens instead. I could add a cabinet, but I think I'd be happier in the end with a smaller range over all. Still not sure.

Also, when I began this thread, I was torn between purchasing a range with "everything I need," whatever THAT may be, lol, or splitting the work detail between a smaller range and an electric wall oven. Due to the tight space I have in my kitchen, at this point I'm leaning toward keeping the oven(s) to just a range and skipping the wall oven because it just complicates the layout scenario. Still, I know there are some marvelous wall ovens out there and I'd love to have one that's eye-level ...

Although I'm fairly certain I know where I'm headed, I'm still sorting through all I've learned, including opinions regarding certain brands that do "better" with gas ovens vs. other brands which are said to excel with electric; some brands note differences in burner BTUs for natural gas and burner BTUs for LP gas (which is what we have) and others note no difference at all; then there is gas vs. electric oven availability in a particular brand or size (ie, I didn't realize until recently that Lacanche's Rully only comes in electric); broiler availability (no broilers in Lacanche gas ovens vs. broilers in La Cornue gas and BlueStar, for example), warming cabinet availability (only Lacanche), French plate availability and BTUs (lower in La Cornue); burner configurations; open burners vs. sealed burners; hob materials; service reputatation; sales support ... the list goes on and on! And of course, there's what we cook to consider plus range size and cost ... so many combinations - and the more you dig, the more differences you come up with. And that's before I even get to COLOR!

When I'm in the kitchen, I find myself saying, "Okay, I'm about to do such-and-such now, which range/oven/burner do I want to use?


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Trinkette:
We went through similar considerations. Once I saw the open burners, Blue Star was out for me. The two ovens in the Sully 1800 are being enough and provide enough oven capacity. We do have a microwave drawer in the island, but other than that, all cooking is focused in one appliance. I really like that. We have a large kitchen and I didn't want to be running all over to do different things!

I think bottom line, all of these high end ranges perform exceptionally well for the casual, home cook. A true chef may be able to discern differences, but they are lost on me. I love our range. It's absolutely gorgeous. And when you add the prices of double ovens and a 48-60" range, it's truly not that much more.

Good luck. You really can't go wrong.


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

"When I'm in the kitchen, I find myself saying, "Okay, I'm about to do such-and-such now, which range/oven/burner do I want to use?"

That's a great way to figure this stuff out!


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Dear Gardenwebbers, I haven't posted in a while but have been following every single word you have all typed-I've turning into a stove stalker ROFLOL!
Of all the threads I've read over the past year regarding stoves, this is the only one whose posters have actually taken the time to break down the decision-making into the critical components. Not just reviews or opinion, but usage, wear, cost, BTUs, options,even the way the stove sticks out from the walls and integrates into the space. Well done!!You have no idea how helpful you've been!
I still haven't made a decision, but I'm inching closer. Like a few of you, I took a step back and asked what I really needed/had to have. One of you rightly pointed out that deciding whether one is a stove top or oven cooker could help out. My ovens are super important to me, and have been the big sticking point in my choices (more on that in a minute) but I do most of my cooking on the stovetop.I REALLY want a coup de feu.If I pick the two burner one coup combination offered by Molteni or Gullo, I'll have to really up my cooking game and plan a bit more ahead (you have to allow the plaque to come to temperature to really use it effectively. So I was concerned I wouldn't have enough "regular" burners.But then, like you all advised, I took a step back and paid attention to what I was really doing "most" days-turns out I'm usually only turning on two burners anyway. When i move to more burners, that's when I could use a million more, so the coup definitely could work out then. I'm still kind of intimidated by it-the Molteni and the others I'm considering are very powerful, but I think that's just lack of self confidence.
Burner strength/BTU's were very important to me as well. I currently have an old Wolf Gourmet line-they were better made than the current offering, heavier and more powerful.The max burner is 18K, but it loses power when the other ones are turned on, and then I can't get that nice carmelized sear on the food. I love the oven though. It's gas with a broiler and a (very noisy) convection fan, and sticky racks. Don't love the noise and the stick, but the size is pretty good, and it works well. All the units I'm considering are more powerful, but some more than others.Like everyone has noted, the ovens seem to be what pose the most dilemmas.
I worry about cleanability. My current stove is a PITA to clean.The Rorgue has a neat water bath under the burners to rinse out spills-cool!It's also the least expensive of my three choices (So far. Am waiting on the cost of the UL listing fee, plus I have to add in taxes and VAT) but I can have every little gadget I had lusted for(of course, I'm now really rethinking everything). But it's the least pretty/french range looking of the batch. It does come in colors though.
I'm nervous that if i select a range with two ovens that I won't be able to use them for what I occasionally need-larger sheets and pans, so I'm really leaning towards one gas oven in the range, and a Miele Masterchef 30" in the wall, which is 6" bigger than my current oven (I have a few pans that I really have to grease up the sides of the oven to squeeze in). I'm going to a Gaggenau cooking demo at Purcell-Murray this weekend and check out their ovens too. Anybody have some feedback on those?
I'm also considering getting a smaller range and adding in two induction burners into the counter for quickie cooking for the kids (I have five). I could have had them built into a bespoke range, but the electric components have to be kept far away from a high heat source, which screwed up the size of the unit massively
Our quotes from the contractors are coming-scary! I just wanted to thank everyone for all the input-every single comment has been so helpful. Oh, on a side note, there's a ROCKIN' Morice stove for sale that I found on the internet. It's not the right color for em (it's blue and silver) but maybe it would work out for you. It's got 3/4 burners (one is a single grate but with two burners under it-is that one or two?LOL) and a coup de feu. The oven is electric. I've (hopefully!) included the link. Parts are still available for the Morices. If it had been a different color, I would have jumped on it-great price. well, I'll be continuing to follow everybody's stove progress, and hope to have a stove too. Soon...

Here is a link that might be useful: Sea Sales Morice cooker


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Dear Garden Webbers, I forgot to add that there's a E. Caumartin on Ebay too for someone looking for an island application. I would have been all over it if it had fit into my design.How come I'm finding everything but what I want??LOL


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

Trinkette: Sorry for my delayed response - we were on vacation and I was not checking email. Thanks for your detailed thoughts on the oven situation. I keep going back and forth but would like to pull the trigger soon so hopefully the range can be made and shipped before the August holiday in France. I'm leaning toward electric right now because the broiler will go to 700F. It's hard to rely on the Miele broiler in the steam oven because it only goes to 437F and that doesn't seem like much of a broiler. Gas vs. electric oven is my last decision. DH is leaving it up to me.

Thanks also for your thorough review of your cooking experience - makes me even more confident in the decision. We are going to tile the back wall so we do not need the spacer and get the range a bit closer to the wall. Glad too that you clarified with Joeboldt re: his decision to buy the exact same range again - I was also confused when I read it.

workingondreamhouse: Is there a particular reason you use the electric more than the gas oven? (Trying to decide which one to go with). We'll have a 2nd wall oven that's a steam oven. If you had to chose only one Lacanche oven which would you choose?


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RE: Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

ChristyMcK, obviously, I [still] have no personal experience working on a Lacanche, however, somewhere along the line I came to the conclusion that if I could only have ONE oven I'd prefer that it be gas. Especially with Lacanche: I remember reading here and there that some folks noticed their electric Lacanche ovens did not always appear to be heating evenly. I don't recall whether these were the smaller, Cluny-sized ovens, the larger ovens, or both. Still, as far as I could tell, no one thought it was enough of an issue to make them unhappy with their Lacanche. By contrast, I don't ever recall reading that someone was unhappy with the cooking/baking performance of their gas Lacanche oven. Perhaps an owner can chime in here.

As I stated earlier, the only issue I have with Lacanche gas ovens is that there is no broiler. This makes a range like the Cluny, with one gas and one electric oven, VERY appealing.

Of course, if you are more of a baker than a roaster, you MAY prefer electric over gas. Still, I bet the cookies coming out of the gas ovens are quite yummy ... Is there a baker out there with an all-gas Lacanche?


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