Are you looking at the plumbed Gaggenau or the tank model? The plumbed Gaggenau is far better than Miele. No need to fill anything up, just set the temperature and humidity and the oven does everything and drains it away when you're done. You can inject steam with the touch of a button at low humidity levels, or condense it with the same button at higher humidity levels before opening the door. If you know you're going with a tank model though, Miele becomes a much more compelling option.

These ovens are expensive and relatively new on the market, so you're not going to find many people who have cooked in more than one of them and can compare their actual experiences. The closest you're going to get is the linked comparison chart made by someone who tested most of them out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Steam oven comparison chart

Have you tried using either/both? I liked the simpler Gagg user interface and the fact that it was plumbed. The hinge door also fit better than the drop down door in our space. But mostly I prefer very simple ovens and kitchen appliances without a lot of buttons/bells/whistles. The Gagg has been great. I like its precision and the functions, though I have to admit it can't really compete with our Lacanche range in terms of cooking enjoyment and simplicity of use.

We got our Gagg off of ebay. It was less than 1/2 of list price, new in box and came with a full 5-year warranty. It has worked perfectly since it was installed. People who have Miele combi steam ovens seem very happy with their choice. If you aren't fussy about the user interface or plumbed steam, I'd probably say the Miele simply because the price of the new Gagg is kind of ridiculous. Or shop ebay. :)

Disregard my last post, I didn't realize Miele's new line of steam ovens had a plumbed option as well.

I, too, are having trouble choosing between the Gaggenau and new, plumbed Miele combi-steam ovens. When you make a final decision, I'd love to hear what finally won you over.

I like our Miele, but honestly you'll probably be more than happy with either. I read wonderful things about both.

The Wolf combi steam oven and the new M series convection ovens have "Wolf Gourmet" which is the same idea as MasterChef.

It is good to see that Gagg has some competition for plumbed steam ovens. The biggest functional reason to buy Gaggenau over Miele now would probably be the side swing door. Also, does the Miele have a "condense steam" button you can use before opening the door like the Gagg does?

I don't see a "Condense Steam" button per se, but, there's a "steam reduction" setting in the menu that seems to accomplish the same thing. The drawback as far as I can see is that there's no way to do this manually. It only happens at the end of a program and only if the program fully finishes. If you stop a program mid-stream, it doesn't go through steam reduction.

That said, while the oven indeed lets out a lot of steam if you open the door mid-program, it's not a big deal. You just stand out of the way for about 5 seconds.

I did confirm though that you *can not* set the moisture level on the pure steam setting like you can on Combi Steam settings. I guess "steam cooking" implies 100% moisture with a max temp of 212F. I think this is pretty much a non-issue though -- if you want lower moisture, you'd probably get a similar effect by doing a Combi Steam convection setting at a low temperature, and setting the moisture level to whatever you want.

I also confirmed that you can create and save multi-step programs, which I think is kind of a big deal with this kind of oven. My reheat pizza example from above is a good one, where you might want a phase where there's little moisture and high temp to crisp the crust, and a phase where there's higher moisture and lower temp to get the rest of the pizza to the appropriate temp.

Yes, the Gaggenau swing sideways. If memory serves, the Miele is $4K new, and the Gagg is $8K. That's a hell of a price to pay for a side-swinging door. ;-)

I believe the Wolf M-series convection ovens were also about $1,000 more than the Miele 6780. I think Wolf updated their menuing system with the M-series, but if not, their old menus -- particularly for the pre-set cooking programs -- were very cumbersome. It looks like the Wolf M Combi-steams still lack a broiler and aren't plumbed, at the same price as the plumbed Miele. Wolf's "Gourmet Mode" where it claims to be able to auto-detect amount of food and set time/temp/humidity to deliver perfect results does sound pretty sweet if it works.

I think we're going to go with the Miele based on the price, Master Chef programs, and larger interior dimensions. Here were the upsides of the Gaggenau as we perceived them:

The Gaggenau ovens have more power heating elements and a smaller interior volume, which presumably means they preheat faster and return to temperature more quickly if the door is opened and closed. On the down side of course, they have a smaller interior volume.

The Gaggenau ovens have a higher maximum temperature in many modes compared to the Miele. The BO 480 can go to 550F/300C [1] in convection mode, while the Miele H 6880 BP will only reach 475F. For the combi-steam ovens, the Gaggenau can reach 450 while the Miele will only go to 435.

I like the Gaggenau controls a lot more: turn one knob to pick the mode and turn the other knob to set the temperature. The Miele, on the flip side, is more programmable and the M-touch series has a ridiculous number of built-in programs; to an extent richer features require more complicated controls, but I think Miele could do more to make basic use easier.

Gaggenau has been making plumbed steam ovens for a much longer time than Miele, so there may be less risk of being a guinea pig.

Both brands suffer from purporting to achieve a humidity percentage rather than letting the user set the wet bulb temperature directly. I recommend reading the section on combi ovens in Modernist Cuisine, volume 2 (get it from your local library), which lauds combi ovens but goes over the science of why fine-grained humidity control is largely bupkis.

I wish I had the time to reproduce the experiments they performed on the Rational combi ovens on both the Miele and Gaggenau to see how well they perform in practice.

[1]: 300C is 572F. I've contacted Gaggenau to figure out whether 550F or 572F is the real maximum temperature, but I'm still waiting to here back.

Here's the response I received from Gaggenau about the maximum temperature in convection mode on the BO 480/481:

"The oven will actually reach a different maximum temperature depending on if you are using centigrade or Fahrenheit. On centigrade the oven will reach 300 degrees C, while on Fahrenheit it will reach 550 degrees F. I’m unsure why there is this difference, however if you are looking for a slightly higher maximum temperature, then you would be able to use the oven on centigrade to reach this higher temperature."

hvtech42 on down is absolutely correct to point you to a plumbed model over other versions. Gaggenau probably has a slight edge on experience in this sector, but Miele is very close if not equivalent. They have been at it a long time and now have the edge in the 30" full size product (not the Combi-steam). Miele also certainly wins on price (frankly, every brand wins on price versus Gaggenau...) and if price is an issue then your question is answered. I don't know of anyone who has the Miele top end units that aren't extremely happy with them - and their service record is the best in luxury appliances followed closely by Gaggenau. The caveat is that any and every appliance purchase is only as good as the install, and that assumes a unit that operates as it did when it left the factory. The higher-end units and brands can be much more particular at the point of installation. It's not a negative, more a reflection of the features and options involved. Often times when a serviceman faces a disgruntled customer for high-end appliances, it's one that took short cuts on the purchase, installation, use and service. That doesn't sound like you - but it's always good to keep in mind. Like the old carpenter adage: measure twice and cut once, which for the appliance installer should say: I'll RTFM first, and second...

How does the gagg compare to miele with cleaning?

Now that they have a plumbed model available in the USA, I would go with the Miele rather than the much more costly Gaggenau. I have the original USA Gaggenau version. I like the side-swing door, but I would just install the Miele a few inches lower and it would be perfect.

One caveat: This plumbed Miele version, like their previous unplumbed one, seems to require 240VAC. If your wiring is 208VAC, it probably will not work at all. Most ovens (the Wolf, for instance) run fine on 208, they just are slower to preheat since the elements produce 25% less power. Not a problem for most of us, but my friend in a high-rise condo had to go with the Wolf rather than Miele 6800XL for this reason.

is the cost the only negative for the gagg?

My wife really really wants the gagg because of it's self cleaning capability... is self cleaning mode working good... like $3k good?

price and self cleaning apart, are they both comparable from ease of use, overall capabilities and food taste?

Thanks in advance....

The Gaggenau combi-steam oven doesn't do self clean. It is stainless steel inside. There is a steam assist feature, which gently warms and moisturizes the oven, to cut down on the elbow grease needed. You may need a cleaner like CLR or a household acid like vinegar to remove mineral scale.

The current model does have a "grill" (broiler), which makes it a complete oven. It has a temperature range from 85-450 (by fives), which means it'll do everything from plate warming and dough rising, to slow cooking, "low and slow" braises and roasts, normal bakes and roasts, to breads, pies, and even pizza (though hotter might be better for that). All that with the ability to select 0%, 30%, 60%, 80%, or 100% humidity. Plus the grill which can be used with or without convection dry, or has two levels of grill with humidity. That's great for steaks, chops, cutlets, and creme brulee, among other things.

You can even get a surface handle if you want one. :)

I don't know how it stacks up against the Miele. Maybe Miele does all that too. Gaggenau has by far the simplest interface. What I would say is don't cheap out on ovens. If your wife really wants the Gaggenau because she really wants it, and you can afford it, don't make her give you a "logical" reason. I'm not knocking Miele or Wolf. Sometimes you just know what works best for you. Or perhaps, she was talking about the regular oven she wants to match the combi-steam. That has 905 degree self clean, which really does the job. It leaves just ash, and doesn't have enamal chipping issues.

How big of an advantage is the plumbed model? How often does the tank need to be refilled if one buys a non plumbed model?

I'm also trying to decide between the Miele and Gagg plumbed combi-steam ovens and am on the fence. I like the simplicity of the Gagg -- as someone else pointed out, one dial for steam % and one dial for temp. The Miele interface is really complicated. But the Gagg is almost ludicrously expensive compared to the Miele.

I'm also tempted by the Miele's multiple programmed settings, mainly b/c I've never cooked with a steam oven and am sure I'll have a big learning curve (the MasterChef is a lot less appealing for me in the convection oven b/c I do know how to bake on a regular oven already). The Miele oven interior is slightly bigger than the Gagg (but only slightly). The Miele also looks like it might be easier to clean -- that may be bupkis, but when I was in one of the stores looking at the hooked up models, the Gagg was a mess inside the slick, stainless interior (although of course the store may also not clean it well). The Miele has some kind of textured metal surface that doesn't look like SS.

I did confirm that you can select temp and steam % on the Miele, so it seems to perform the same as the Gagg in that respect.

I liked the Gagg, but gagged at the price compared to the Miele lol. Ended up finding a floor model Miele from the old line, haven't installed it yet.

Honestly, I don't use the self clean option that often. It's fine, but it certainly wasn't one a feature that sold me on it. But that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't find it super useful. Even with the simpler Gagg interface I still find myself referring to the documentation to remind myself what some of the symbols mean and how to do stuff. I would have been more frustrated with the Miele in that respect for sure. The plumbed nature of it is really nice to me, also because it makes it less work and is simpler to use.

I actually don't think the settings would be that helpful but that's because we all have different tastes as to how long certain foods should be cooked. For example, we've tweaked how long we roast the chicken and at what steam level (less steam, shorter time, higher dry temp) than the Gagg calls for because we want crisper skin and usually roast small chickens (which turn out AWESOME in the steam oven). Pre-programs could however give you a starting point which could be helpful, but that's what the documentation does.

But the Gagg price is stupid high which is annoying and definitely generates struggle in the decision making process. I certainly wouldn't feel like someone was "settling" if they bought a Miele combi steam oven. They get great reviews and in the end, we all simply get used to what we have.

Floor models, ebay with warranty, etc. are definitely worth exploring here. It was a little nerve wracking to buy on ebay since return wasn't really a possibility and it was put into an old dumb waiter with very tight margins. There was a big sigh of relief when it was finally in and plumbed and working. But we measured about 20 times, consulted the contractor and it all worked out. We also got an aluminum model which looks just fine with our Lacanche Volnay in a navy blue with brass and brush stainless finishes.

Anyway, good luck with your decision!

Our Updated 1950s Kitchen with French Inspiration · More Info

Please let me know if anyone is interested in some new, closed box Gaggenau and/or Subzero appliances. Someone stiffed us, and the appliances are with an extremely reputable, high end kitchen cabinet company in their storage.

The manufacturer warranties are still effective. We are negotiable on the price, and these appliances are never discounted or go on sale.

Here is the list.

1. Gaggenau BO 480-610 30" built-in wall oven (RH)

2. Gaggenau BS 484-610 30" Combi-Steam Plumbed (RH)

3. Gaggenau CX 491-610 36" full surface induction cooktop

4. SubZero UC-24R 24" All Fridge (RH)

5. SubZero UC-15IP 15" Ice Machine with Pump

6. SubZero 424G/O-RH Wine Storage Undercounter (this has a premier custom door panel that goes with it)

I am interested in your ovens and cooktop. How may i contact you?

Call me at my place of work (310) 573-9979 x81. My name is Cora

We finally got our Gagg 400 combo-steam installed last week, and I've tried out a few things on it (but not a lot, since we don't have countertops in our kitchen and it's still pretty much a work in progress).

So far, I really love it -- it's smaller, so it heats really quickly, and even though I'm still in experimentation stage with heat + humidity, I honestly haven't cooked anything yet that was a failure (and I did cook a damn amazing loaf of yeasted potato bread a few days ago).

We went with the plumbed Gagg over the Miele mostly b/c I liked the simpler interface (as others have commented), and my husband wanted it to match the regular oven we got -- plus we liked the modernist look. However, we also got it through an open box sale from a reputable company, so the price made it about the same as the Miele. If I hadn't found it open box, I would have gone with the Miele b/c of the price, even though I'm not that fond of the Miele interface.

One thing to note about the Gagg is that purchasing additional pans is absolutely usurious -- a full size pan that can be slid in runs about $150, and since they're sized to the oven, there don't seem to be any real workarounds that I can find (I did ask about the Therm/Bosch steam oven trays, but apparently since those don't offer a plumbed oven model, they aren't as deep as the Gagg trays). Sigh.

On the pans, check to size if you can find hotel pans or steam table pans that will fit. http://www.webstaurantstore.com/guide/556/food-pan-buying-guide.html I found that 2/3 size works great for my Combi ( an older Viking ) and the cost from Amazon was 20% or less than the cost from Viking, so I bought extra perforated and non perforated trays.

Like Barry mentioned, a basic G/N (Gastronome) pan should fit. If current tray size/rack width is 325 mm, it is the typical size for G/N pan. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastronorm_sizes for more info.

Most G/N size residential steam oven should fit 2/3 G/N. Miele larger steam oven can fit 1/2+1/3 G/N which is a bit larger than 2/3.

Bigger combi ovens' rack size is about 40-42 cm, so normal G/N pans won't fit directly on the side rack. For Miele, however, there is a wire rack adaptor that allows up to 2/3 G/N pan size.

These G/N pans are pretty cheap from hospitality supply stores. Their prices can, however, climb up pretty quickly from more expensive manufacturers. I have some G/N pans from Pujadas, a Spanish company, and they are as nice, or may be even nicer than Miele pans.

Stumbled across this thread while searching for a replacement for my Gaggenau Steam Combi 30" BS280. It's now 8 years old, and has gone casters up. I can't believe I paid $5k for a built-in appliance that was only designed to last a few years. Was I unreasonable in expecting that this would last longer than 8 years?

I've had the Gaggenau recommended service technicians working on my oven for nearly a YEAR, and today they finally gave up and told me to buy a new one. I originally called them out in October 2015 when the descale icon appeared and wouldn't go away. The descaling instructions in the manual are useless, as they only tell you to remove the filter inside the oven and wipe the surface. There's no way to actually descale anything. Service technician only made matters worse to where the unit would fill up with water and not drain. After a year of working on the damn thing they replaced the drain hose and got it draining, but now it spurts water inside whenever you turn the oven on.

I'd definitely NOT recommend the Gaggenau!

Oh dear!!! I'm so sorry you've had all this trouble, and I do believe the techs have caused most of it. If I were you, I'd demand a supervising tech put your oven back to normal.

It's probably too late, but here are the instructions I got from Gaggenau (sorry about the sideways pictures):

A note on descaling the
combi-steam oven: The manual is very hard to understand. "Lemon based
descaler" according to Gaggenau Service is CLR (comes in a bottle),
lemon juice or white vinegar. In other words, kitchen acid. :) The
part that needs descaling is the valve behind the cowling on the left
side of the oven.

From the Gaggenau rep:
Pictures on how to get to the water inlet tube. Simply use a pipe
cleaner or something skinny enough to fit into the tube . FYI. Only
the front screws get removed not the rear screws. You could also fill a
small container and immerse the tube, while off with clean water.

Hm...the pictures went away. I put the info on my kitchen site so I wouldn't lose it: http://jcskitchen.net/appliances.htm  scroll down.

I am VERY unhappy with my Miele products and would not recommend buying a Miele. I have the latest steam ovens and they have never worked. The first set leaked all over my wood floor and they tried to fix them 3 times and then replaced them. Second set the steam STILL does not work and the finish is cracking on the inside trying to get them to replace it again. Warming drawer has been replaced once already, and the new version does not work either. They are coming to put the third one in. The microwave feature on my Speed oven just went out and they are going to be coming to fix that. I have a hard time believing this is all coincidence and I just happened to get all the lemons. Worst of all, through all this pain and agony, we have been basically ignored. Were we not the squeaky wheel, they would have ignored us. Don't buy Miele.

Gaggeneau is expensive and not reliable if you are looking for something to last a several years. Their customer service is horrible and they do not stand behind their products. Only for this reason alone, I recommend you not buy from them.

We have the Wolf combi steam and we have been very happy with its performance. It is now 3 1/2 years old with no problems to date (knock wood).

MJ

Trayceek sounds like someone who has had a bad experience. My experinence is opposite other than the expensive. My Gaggenau ovens have been exceptionally reliable, even when caught in a power outage while at work, the customer service has been exceptional, to the point of one of their agents going out of his way to research something and get back to me with several progress reports, then a comprehensive answer.

My combi is relatively new (April/16) and while I love the oven, I do have some mixed views of the service. It started with a problem connecting the hose to the bib. The agents that I talked to insisted that no additional parts were necessary, but in fact I did need one. OTOH, they sent out a technician a couple of weeks after I had it installed, and he confirmed that yes, the hose they supplied was wrong, and the "fix" that I did was good. The most recent service issue is the descaling cartridges which have been out of stock since October (except for about a week at the beginning of December).

I found 1 Gag BS485611 (30") floor sample from 1 dealer in my area. They're selling this for $4000, which is a bit less than the Miele (plumbed) one.

I'm very new to cooking with steam oven and have been researched on Miele. I like Miele's menu options. I don't know how easy it is to operate the Gag.

If the price is the same between these Gag and Miele, what would you choose?

Thanks in advance

That's a great price on the Gag. I have a Gaggenau combi steam oven (going on 7 years now), and I love it. I mostly use it for steaming vegetables, steaming then browning vegetables such as potatoes and Brussels Sprouts, reheating food, and sterilizing jars for canning/yogurt making. Occasionally, I'll make a beef tenderloin in it, but my temperature probe doesn't work anymore (doesn't really matter to me, as I know when it's done). I don't have a Miele combi steam (though I've got many other Miele appliances), so I can't comment on that. I was really impressed when I was learning about steam ovens that you can cook rice, pasta, and sous vide in them. However, in actually using my steam oven, I have never use it for those applications (there are much more efficient and less energy-intensive ways to do those things). One thing to be very careful about if you do get the Gagg (and it's probably the same with Miele) is how it's installed. The Gagg needs to stick out from the face of the cabinets, because the steam vents a LOT and will destroy your cabinets if you don't set it up right. My installer put mine in flush, and after a destroyed cabinet, we learned our lesson. Good luck!

Old thread, but AttoFarad is completely wrong on the power supply for Miele. Everyone, including Miele builds for either 208 or 240V, and I confirmed this both in the Miele installation manual and with customer service. What is more likely is that there might be a difference in the max amperage draw, and some older apartments cannot handle that.

I am in that boat now. Miele has a 10% promotion + 5 years warranty, and I found a gaggenau 400 series open box from the dealer in my hood with 20% discount. end result is new Miele 6705 and 6880-2 BP would cost just a couple hundreds more than then floor model 30 inch Gaggenau steam combi + wall oven. Caveat is the hinge, it's right hinge (so opens from the left).

I did buy the Miele today, but I can change my mind, coz I won't need delivery for many months. I like the bigger cavity on Miele (1.84 vs 1.6 cf), and I like the self-cleaning option on the gagg, and the side hinge (although i don't like a right hinge, as someone who uses mostly the right hand). My husband likes the interface on the Miele.

Any advice considering that the price is exactly the same?

Eric Smith -- at the time I wrote it, the info I gave on the Miele was correct -- the only model available in the US absolutely required 240V, not 208V. The newer models run on either.