Are you saying that you want to buy a stove that was designed to use pilot lights instead of an ignition source, and disable the pilot lights and continue to use it? Also, not sure about the reference to commercial versus consumer, are you saying you want to buy a commercial oven and use it in a home?

The "danger" that I see here, in doing the conversion to "pilotless" is that you will not have the "safety feature" that if the burner does not light, or the burner goes out, after being lit, the gas will not turn off automatically, as it would with one of the newer style gas cooktops, (IE Capital, Bluestar, Wolf ~~~etc.

To do it "right", one would have to buy the "ignitor control module" along with the proper ignitors.

Myself, that is the only way I would do such a conversion, and in fact there is a post where a gas burner went out , or did not light, yet the gas stayed on ~~~~ fortunately, (in this case), the story had a happy ending, but it "Easily" could have gone "The other way"!!!!!

Gary

How will you fit this into a residential kitchen? It is not insulated, so it cannot touch a standard wall, and cannot have cabinets next to it. It has to stand alone with fireproof walls adjacent. It will also need a commercial exhaust hood with the built in fire suppression system. And makeup air. Heated makeup air. And that is if your insurance company would even allow it. They might just tell you no, or cancel you. Commercial ranges do not belong in residential homes without a lot of special safety conditions being met.

Michigan, I agree with live wire oak. When I was looking for a pro style range years ago, I was surprised to see commercial ovens were cheaper than the home version. I thought it was due to excessive markups in the home appliance sales, then I found out that commercial ovens are designed to be installed against fire resistant surfaces, for example the entire back wall may be tiled as opposed to just a backsplash, and they have set backs - say 3 or 4 inches from any surface like a cabinet, wall or floor, that would not look right in a home setting. So the home style ranges are more expensive because they have more insulation and safety features.

Even if you complied with all the set backs and fire resistant surface requirements, I don't think your plan would work for the oven. The way most gas ovens work is that the thermostat senses the oven is below temp, and it opens a valve that allows gas to flow into the burner assembly. Then when it gets above temp, the valve is closed, and when it drops below temp the cycle repeats. The cycle may repeat many times over the course of an hour. I don't think there is any way you would know when the gas was being released by the valve so you would be there to ignite it. In addition, most gas appliances have a safety feature that prevents the gas from being released if things aren't correct. Many use a thermocouple, which is a small pin that sits above the pilot light - so long at it is at a certain temp, it will allow gas to flow when the valve opens. If it is cooler that a certain temp, because the pilot light has gone out, then even when the valve opens, the safety device prevents the flow of gas. The link is to an article explaining the different ignition systems for gas ovens

Here is a link that might be useful: oven ignition systems

We had a commercial oven in our home in the 80's and 90's (a Garland). I just used cement board (Hardibacker) and tile over that. Didn't really get much hotter than our Viking.

The safety feature of a standing pilot is the thermocouple. The thermocouple will not allow the gas valve to open - unless the thermocouple is hot. The thermocouple tip is mounted in the pilot light flame.

It's so easy to light a pilot light - near the bottom front of the over you'll see a red button hold it in, strike a match, light the pilot and hold the red button in for about 20 seconds - so the thermocouple heats up. That's it.

You'll never have problems with igniters and it's a time proven (100 yrs) design.

I understand the challenges of putting a commercial range in a home kitchen. I have researched it extensively and I still have plenty more homework to do before I decide its going to happen. That is why my question was not "should I put a commercial range in my home kitchen?". I am sure I will have plenty of hood and mua questions to ask too if I decide to buy this or any other commercial range. But I am in no way expecting this to be an easy drop in solution.

So I am convinced that this set up would not work for the oven portion of the range (thank you Barryv and geofferyb for the info and link). What about a manual shut off valve? I turn the gas on, light the pilots, cook, turn the valve off when I am finished cooking. My main reason for this is to avoid burning NG from 10-12 pilot lights 24-7 and also having to air condition the heated air that comes from them in the summer.

Michigan DIY, so long as you are happy with the safety aspects, ( and with the internet, it is hard to know how much a poster knows about safety issues, so for live wire oak and I, the best way is to make sure that they understand the safety differences between home and consumer, not everyone does ) I think your solution seems to make sense. Actually, if you are okay with using a lighter to light the top burners, you could probably rig it so that the top pilots are always off, and light the burners as you use them. However you cut off that pilot light for the burners, I would make sure that it is reversible, since you might tire of lighting each burner each time you used it. Generally, the code will require a shut off at the appliance anyway, you just need to have it located so that it is convenient to reach, not buried behind the appliance, and preferably get a long handle on the shut off so it is easy to open and close. BTW, I have no idea how much gas those pilots would use, but I am guessing that the heat load is not very much. Leave a halogen light on in your vent hood, and that will put plenty of heat into the room.

Here is a link that might be useful: shut off with long handle

Pilot lights use up very little money - maybe $1 to $2 a month per pilot light.

You may want to consider a commercial Vulcan range that uses 1 pilot light to light the front and rear burners so that you'll only have 3 pilot lights on a 6 burner range.

@Michigan DIY: Being as polite as I can... you have the wrong focus. Saving energy by turning off pilot lights is a folly. So is the A/C savings in the summer.

Since the pilot light tubing is under the deck of the range - there is no way of turning them on/off easily. You could permanently turn them off, then use a butane lighter to light the burners. However - if you have a burner that 'goes out' while simmering - it would not relight. A big safety concern.

IMO, your concerns are misplaced.

those are very valid points. thank you for the information and the concern for my safety.

It seems like the answer to my question is no. no one does it because there just isnt much of a payoff. the risk to reward isnt worth it.

I appreciate everyones input. Thanks for your time!

MichiganDIY, I have never used induction, but if your concerns are efficiency and heat , you might want to look at an induction cook top, and some wall ovens. The cooktops are supposed to be incredibly efficient, and faster and more responsive than gas, and won't put any extra heat in the room. All other things being equal, a gas oven will vent a lot more heat than an electric oven, since the electric oven is usually sealed much better. I have a 30 inch gas range, and you can feel it in the kitchen when I run it in the summer at 400 F or more.

Top burners= I have shut off the valving in old 1940's home ranges. The pilots stay off (there is a screw adjustment) so you just light the burner with a match or one of those cheep BBQ lighters. The problem is only if you turn the knobs and it doesn't get lit.

Oven pilots vary. The old ovens were lit with a match that would suck the flame down to the main burner... But if you have an oven pilot, I would just leave it= they rarely blow out accidentally and usually there is just one per oven.

I think i misspoke a little bit when I said my concerns were heat and efficiency and i apologize for that. Those are just the concerns that led me to kicking around the conversion to electronic ignition idea. Also those are only really concerns of mine when the range is not is use.

Basically I do 2 types of cooking. Day to day cooking which is just to throw food on the table for myself and my girlfriend (basic meals). I have thought about adding a 2 hob induction cooktop to my Island near the prep sink to accomplish this. The other type is cooking for fun and for when we entertain. For this purpose gas is the only option for me because its more enjoyable for me when i can feel the heat and see the fire. I am drawn to the bigger ranges and double ovens because our cooking has caused our events to grow over the years. We now cook meals like thanksgiving and christmas dinner for 35-40 people.

Another option I am considering is a 60" commercial cooktop only on top of 2 high end (not as high end as some people here have) but residential 30" ovens. I havent totally thought this one through but welding up a rudimentary frame and skinning it with stainless comes to mind. Still with the option of adding a small induction set up elsewhere for regular use.

Jimmy - did you end up going ahead with the conversion and if so do you have any info/pointers/resources/parts I should know about? looking to do exactly as you were.

Wish this conversation was more current. I have a vulcan range with six eyes fitted for propane. I never thought about the issue until I had it for a while. I had old timey ranges that only had pilots and it never seemed like an issue. These six eyes have large pilots that waste a lot of gas. The oven is a completely separate issue. I'm also a jack of all trades electrical engineer that has been a controls engineer and a controller board designer among other things. The post about the igniter control module is probably the most reasonable way out, but then you need a solenoid valve that must be activated to supply the gas and time out if the flame detect feedback signal is not received. Right there I'm already over anybody's head that does not have at least some of my training. That is also a point of contention for me because consumer type controllers have no source code or schematics so you can maintain the thing indefinitely. They expect you to throw it away after 5 to 10 yrs and when a controller goes out that you can no longer get (and they are ridiculously expensive if you can) typically renders an otherwise perfectly operating appliance worthless. So let say one other thing in response to the post above that defended the high price of consumer type similar stoves: You will always notice that the commercial grade are built from much heavier gauge metal and and have less custom plastic or otherwise easily damageable parts on them. Those reasons are why I wanted a commercial range.

I am still on the fence of what to do. One option I have considered is use igniter modules with a solenoid valve at the oven input regulator and then I will need a user interface, the simplest being a small NEMA enclosure with some industrial push buttons and and lights. Next I need a way to control these. This falls in 3 categories: 1) a bunch of relays ('70's stle industrial control - big, cumbersome, wiring in a cabinet, but he most Neanderthal electrician that work on it, but you need to know how to design it, but it's not rocket science). 2) a PLC - (programmable logic controller) - some electricians can work on these, these days, the are reasonable price ones out there but you need the experience of design and programming - another step up from relays - however, if the PLC has an Ethernet connection and a Modbus interface, you can integrate you oven control into an overall home control system and control or monitor it from the other side of the world.

3) The next is custom design a board with a microprocessor, the advantage being that you can make the wiring minimalist, but beyond that the requirements of what you need to be able to do are so great I won't waste any time discussing it further. No one else would be able to ever work on it and your insurance company would not like it. I lamented the same issues when I designed my septic system that uses crude float switch control and ended up using a PLC for that project. The inspector passed my system and said it was the most sophisticated in the county. So I can monitor the flow of T---s from the other side of the planet....Eureka !!!! Seriously there are a lot of advantages to it, but that is way beyond the scope of this post.

I know this conversation is old, but I keep coming back to it. I bought a new home 3 years ago that was built by a chef. I have a 72" commercial Jade range, 8 burners, a flat top, salamander and double ovens. In addition, an indoor grill. I love it all, it is so fast to cook, but my propane bill in the winter in MA is close to $1000 a month. I have sealed and insulated the house, put doors on the fireplace and replaced windows. It is still high, so now I am down to either it being the pilot lights (all 14 of them going 24/7) OR the fact that I have a 15 foot commercial hood sitting in the 22 x 22 kitchen full of ice cold air when that bill comes in highest. I have written to Jade and asked the commercial stove repair company (while they were tuning it up) if it could be retrofitted. Noone really wants to even give an answer. So my guess is no. I will say, I think I should just purchase a system that has spark ignition and call it a day, but I am worried that after all of that, it will turn out to be the cold air sitting in the hood. Also, the heat actually functions like a constant heating stove and that room is always warmer which is only really a problem in July and August.

I can tell you it is not the stove. I have a vulcan w/ 6 large eyes and a pilot (200K BTU) for the oven and a vulcan grill (64K BTU) that has 4 more. My griddle is electric so it has no pilots but that's a total of 11. Not far off what you have. I also have a 200K BTU on demand water heater and fire places with gas logs (31K BTU ea). I live in So Central TX. So far this year I have not spent 700 on propane and my 250 Gal tank is nowhere near empty.

If the hood is very cold up top, then you are probably drafting cold air in. You need an automatic damper that will open when the flue is hot and close otherwise. There are quite a few ways to sense the need to be open from a manual switch, to thermal and smoke sensors appropriately mounted. The damper is electro/mechanical and needs to fit and adequately seal out the cold air.

Being an engineer this is small potatoes to me, but to anyone other than some sort of industrial mechanic or commercial kitchen installers it is most likely Greek. But armed with that info you might contact that company and ask for advice on how to get it done. The hood company might be better as they know their hood and can maybe recommend a model # and an installer.

I will say it is always warmer near the stove and my wife put a plastic tray on top and melted a hole in it.

The above advice is not to be considered an answer to your problem as I have not seen it. It is only a possible suggestion based on your anecdotal claims. I do find the pilots annoying and a nuisance. I can understand why a commercial unit works that way - b/c they turn it on in the morning and run with it all day and igniters add a level of unreliability that a restaurant could not tolerate. Unfortunately they are not that easy to retrofit unless they are all turned on/off at once but then there is the oven which has a mechanical safety valve and so that would have to be lit manually whenever needed - a pain.

Hope that helps.

-pm

Update:

I found that on my Vulcan stove the pilot light could be disabled by a screw valve under the burner knob. I switched gas carriers and the new one came inside and that was how he tested it. I told him just leave those off. So now I have to manually light the burners but that beats the propane waste.

Thank you. I just came back to this thread again. I did have the commercial appliance company come out and they said the same thing. It is the lack of a damper in the hood open 24/7. We are working on a motorized damper that I can hopefully close to stop the influx of cold air. Closing up the vent is another issue. I don't think that is legal. I also found out that this kitchen had been added as a catering kitchen for the chef that built the house, so the more you know...

This thread is currently valid as there are many older stoves such as the O'Keefe & Merritts as well as the Wedgewoods, which are being used in homes all across the country. This is

in regards to the recent national news about the problems with combustion emissions from gas stoves inside homes causing asthma in children. This can be a problem during cooking but really adds up when you have standing pilots burning 24 hours a day. Many of these older stoves can have up to five or six standing pilots. We have turned off the standing pilots for the burners in our Wedgewood stove but the oven and broiler pilots need to be connected for the thermocouples to activate the safeties.

It would be a great idea to make a kit that would convert these beautiful, historic ranges from standing pilots into electronic ignition. What is funny is that there are various kits to turn older, standing pilot furnaces into electronic ignition. If anyone has any ideas about this possibility please comment on this thread.

I purchased a house that has a Classic (possible 60s) 30" Wolf 6 x burner stovetop (only) which has pilot lights for each burner. Is it possible to cap the pilots and replace with a new ignition system? It's a great cooktop but the pilot lights get so hot when not in use and burn handles, etc.