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lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Posted by flyleft (My Page) on
Wed, Dec 23, 09 at 2:09

So my 12 y.o. DD, of the amazing eye, finds this bowl among all the others at Goodwill. It has that certain vibrant "something", which definitely comes through when it's tapped, as well - beautiful long low resonating 'ping'. 3 even lobes that make a full circle from the top (I just took the pic below to capture the undulation), with a swirled underneath, no marks at all (a couple of little scratches). I'm thinking it might have been blown and the open end is somehow where the pontil was.

I can't find anything like this anywhere--closest I get is Whitefriars, but the shape from the top isn't the same.

Any ideas? TIA!
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

I have more pics if anyone's interested, but these were probably the two most important.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

There is only one picture....
It's a mouth blown one of a kind "thing"...fine quality....obviously an artesan piece....
What do you want to know?
Linda c


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

linda, you only see one pic? Which one? When I look, I see showing it from the side, slightly above, and one showing the ripply bottom of it as well. I wonder if you only get one because the pics are too big? I didn't realize how large they were when I posted them...

And I guess I'd like to know if it's a known maker or if it's another one-off, like that little crystal goblet with all the cuttings up and down the stem I posted a few months ago. I swear, it sounds like a bronze bell when I tap it. Amazing. Do you know of any company that wouldn't put any kind of etched mark on a piece like this? I remember the VSL glasses weren't marked either, I was just lucky I found them when searching with search terms. I've tried searching under 'lobed crystal bowl' but come up empty.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

The pictures are too large....
And I can't see the bottom clearly.
It looks blown....you won't find another like ti....because there doesn't appear to be a mold used....just a guy with a gather of glass and a blow pipe.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Ah, o.k., thanks for the info on the pics. The bottom is just swirly, that's all. If it was just a guy with glass, it was a talented guy with really high lead content glass, judging from the sound :)

but ah! I just figured it out! Your off-the-cuff comment made me realize--it was a mold it was blown into, not one with seams, though -- it was a roundish kind that made the lobes exactly evenly (I have another too-large pic that shows how even the lobes are, making thirds of a perfect circle). So it *could* be repeated, I imagine. The pontil must have been on the open side.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Please try to make that picture smaller.....and how about a picture of the bottom? That's where the punty rod would have been fastened.
What would have happened is....
A blower would get a gather of glass on the end of his pipe....and blown it and flipped and flopped it and blown and kept putting it back into the glory hole to keep it molten and when it got big enough, he would have let it cool just a bit, broken or cut it from the blow pipe and attached a punty rod to the closed end....then reheated it and twirled and worked it until it was flared and with tools worked it into lobes....
Then plunged it into the oil and broken it off of the punty....and fire polished the rim and polished the place on the bottom where the punty was attached.
I have spent hours at various places watching the glass blowers...most recently in Glassboro New Jersey...on av ery hot summer day!! LOL!
Linda C

Here is a link that might be useful: blowing glass


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

linda, we have a rather strong tradition of glassblowing out in the PNW too, you know ;)

I'm used to evaluating pontils in various conditions (being a bit of a Blenkonian :)), but that was what I didn't understand about this piece--there's really no place a pontil could have been. It seems *smooth* and blown, as if it had been placed in a concave lobed mold and then the top part of the bowl was what was cut off. I could be wrong, but to me it definitely doesn't look polished or anything other than integrally part of the swirling.

I'll resize tonight when we get back and post smaller pics.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

O.K., let's try (sorry I'm late):
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Well gosh, I resized the pics and everything...this beautiful singing bowl needs some ID help! (I know it's not a 'singing bowl' but it was amazing when I just brushed up against it, didn't even mean to tap it, and it rang a quiet "diiiiing")


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Sorry, I did some searching and haven't come up with much either. If you're feeling particularly ambitious you can check the Corning Museum of Glass. There is a lot there, and I haven't explored it, because my browser is giving me fits right now. I do see they have an extensive list of pieces by various creators and dates. (They have an Image View but I can't see any in my browser :/ )


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

I just wish these things could talk!


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

OOoooooh. I didn't know they had a website, which of course they do.

That's a wonderful museum to hit should one ever be in the region.

A very pretty bowl, whatever it is!


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

And to think I lived on the east coast most of my life, in NYC for 10...I could have gone there but I wasn't interested in glass at that time...*sigh*


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Yeah....as I said...a little learning...etc .
Even mold blown glass can be carefully finished and will show no mold lines.
And higher lead content does NOT make a louder ding...
I'd be curious to see the store....but not going to add my click to the count.
Linda c


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

I dunno, I personally find Dean's input on various subject matter rather refreshing. He's definitely not hit-n-run. (psst, Dean, we're not supposed to post commercial links. ;)

Don't get the remarks being made about 'a little learning'... does that sentence end with 'can be a dangerous thing' ??
Lots of people are a little knowledgeable about a variety of things antique related. Doesn't make one more dangerous than the next. Even the best of pros out there will acknowledge they don't know everything and consult with or defer to colleagues with more refined expertise. Or be open-minded enough to share knowledge as a progressive means to get to the heart of the matter. Leads that are like stepping stones to the answers are a good thing, dickering over who's right just gets in the way. So in that regard, IMHO the more responses, the better!

I like this quote from the Chicago Appraisers Assn., when talking about their teamwork approach and utilizing their fellow members of the International Association of Art Historians if they get stuck. Always ask any appraiser you're considering hiring, how many people will do the research. "One man bands" don't cut it anymore.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Oh, I usually agree wholeheartedly with the 'more minds' approach, esp. after seeing the ant-colony exhibit at the local children's museum :), BUT I felt that Dean's comments were mostly meant to pique interest in his link, not really share substantive info. I hope I'm wrong. I really don't like it when people who have never just commented helpfully suddenly appear with comments and link to a site over multiple threads, though. *Bad form*. There are plenty of design professionals over on the HD and Baths fora who never link to their business or blogs or whatever else. People contribute here or don't; they don't contribute in order to advertise. Same with the JB Forum, and look at all the amazing high-level advice shared there, just for pure love of the craft. People can put links to their websites in their "page" descriptions, but linking in a thread is really 'not on'.

Back to the lovely bowl :)

I've seen completely 180 degree rounded wooden hollowed-out forms that could shape glass actually used about 10 ft in front of me, with no two-sided mold (and thus mold lines) necessary. I feel that that's what happened here. A lobed 180 degree/semi-spherical mold was made and the glass blown into it. It *could* be free, but the lobes are very regular in their irregularity (i.e. all the same but very loose), so either someone who's really perfect with free-form blowing OR a form to start the shape with was used.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

I'll not disagree w/your first paragraph. Maybe he just didn't read the rules well at sign up. Hopefully it's nothing more than that.

Wooden bowl as a starter mold is an interesting theory!
Oh, and before I forget, it's a really pretty bowl, so unique! (I did compliment the other day on it but that's when gremlins swallowed up half of GW content.) Just out of curiosity, are you in an area with a lot of artists?


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Yes, that must be it -- he didn't read the rules. Harebell did, though. Can't wait to see the replies to that thread. I can't reply since I'm not a pro, but maybe Dean could get a clue as to how things work here on that thread.

Thanks for the kind words on the bowl. Yes, I live in the PNW, suburbs of Portland, Oregon--an extremely artistic/craftish area, long tradition of glassblowing on the coast (and in town too -- and Bullseye Glass is in town, with their galleries...), and west coast studio pottery, including the Museum of Contemporary Craft. Re that instigator thread: finding amazing older signed pots at Goodwill was the instigator. I knew I was seeing some really cool stuff, so I bought it and brought home and started learning. Now I'm hooked :), and already have the Oregon Potters Association Ceramic Showcase on my mental calendar for the end of April :) I love glass too, got into it through mosaic and through the glassblowers on the coast.

(oh--the same weekend, in the same place, is a Glass showcase and a Woodworkers showcase...we have a strong tradition of woodworking here, too)

Here is a link that might be useful: a weekend of sheer delight


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

I just saw harebell's thread, glad it was started, I'll be interested in responses, too.

What a great event you have coming up! Now that would be fascinating! I checked out the showcase awards, very unique and creative. Are you going to watch any of the demonstrations they have on the schedule? I think I could really enjoy something like that. I've dabbled in all kinds of media and have wanted to take pottery classes for years but what's offered through our arts association is always too late at night for me. I'm so wiped out by the end of the day, I'd probably fall asleep at the pottery wheel. ;)

Since you're in artists colony area, I'm wondering if your bowl isn't a creation of one of the locals? I googled Dean's suggestions, found a piece that made me think of yours here. I hope this makes sense, side by side the two don't look the same, of course. But the two when compared to other pieces seem to share similar traits...minimalist yet the height of elegance. Kind of like how only Jackie O could wear a dress of simple clean lines, a strand of pearls and be stunning. Hope that makes sense! (I've just inhaled a hot glass of Starbuck's on this cold blustery snowing morning and am pretty sure I have a caffeine buzz lol) Just an aside, the Holmegaard site has some of the most interesting, delicate designs, I'm finding it quite captivating. Only one dealer in the U.S., tho, in Hot Springs AK.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Isn't it fascinating, moon? We went last year and watched Patrick Horsley's demo (it was at the same time last year--wonder if he has a standing spot there, given his stature in the community), DD made a little canopic jar for me [we'd just seen an exhibit on ancient Egypt and the animal-headed canopic jars really struck her] with a cat's head (it fell apart since it wasn't fired :( )...I think sometimes that I'm attracted to studio pottery because I *cannot* throw a pot to save my life. At least I couldn't when I had the best use of my hands back in high school, so I doubt anything has changed for the better :) I just LOVE the solidity/physicality of three-dimensional art, be it pottery, or glass, metal, or wood. And in light of the thread about the Kewpie doll, wanted to mention again that DD found this bowl, too, btw. She *does* have a good eye.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Oh Flyleft, how cruel of you to post that link! I'm in Vancouver BC and that is just not quite far enough away for distance to be a barrier to going. Pottery is my major weakness, probably the only one I'd actually travel for.

Oh, and I'll bite: if it isn't the lead, why does crystal ring in a way that other glass doesn't?

KarinL


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Who said it isn't lead glass?
Lead glass "rings"....but the loudness of the ring isn't directly correlated with the percentage of lead in the glass.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

karin, come on down! I admit, my radar went off when I saw in the "name your poison" thread that you buy handmade pottery -- I've got a houseful that you could come play ID with if you come to the Ceramics Showcase :) Do you collect Canadian studio pottery? There's much beautiful work coming out of BC and that has come out in the past, but I try to restrict myself to the US PNW/CA. We'd have a blast at the Showcase, I know it.

And aren't you the person who said you collect baskets too? I think we have a lot in common...I have a soft spot in my heart for anything handmade (and preferably true amateur art), rather than manufactured things. Not exactly a growth industry :) Found a cool basket yesterday that has its handle anchored by little dowels slid into splits in the handles a ways down into the body of the basket. I've never seen that before.


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...ps

uh, CA in this case meaning California--sorry for any confusion!


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Flyleft, I admit to being sorely tempted, and it would be fun to have a partner in crime. I hadn't looked south of the border at all until prepping for a recent trip to Seattle for another purpose, in November, hoping to find a few galleries or studios to visit en route down and back, and although I didn't end up getting to any, was impressed by some of what I saw. But... the credit card bills from December are just rolling in and it's property tax time... sigh. But I'll put in on my mental calendar and you never know, perhaps another reason for a trip will just suddenly materialize that weekend.

I don't like to claim expertise, particularly, even on the BC scene, although I think I basically know who's who. I am a regular at the local galleries and craft fairs and have allowed myself a few special pieces (now that my kids are less likely to break them), but my collection tends toward the budget end of the market. I might not be much help on the ID but I'd love to look!

And baskets... yup, that's me too. If it's a vessel of some sort I'm probably into it. I actually use baskets for grocery shopping a lot, so I have a practical excuse for buying them. Not that I need as many as I have. And I am often particularly intrigued by mixed materials so would probably have been competition for the basket you saw.

And thanks for clarifying on the crystal sound, Linda.

KarinL


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Hello all

I would like to reitterate about my earlier post regarding this bowl. Dear Linda C, you have stated in another post that you have never been a dealer so I would hope that you will refrain from suggesting that those of us who are active in the trade, are less than knowledgable about a variety of items. Any dealer of purveyer of fine glass / crystal will tell you that the heavier the content of Lead in the construction of a piece is relative to the ring it produces. Any cyrstal will ring when struck and those items over 33%PBO will have a clearer and cripser ring than those will lower lead content. Waterford Cyrstal is a typcial example as the Lead content is extremely high. So Linda, I would strongly suggest that you cease dismissing my comments and questioning my expertise as I find it offensive and quite amusing given that you have never been a dealer nor do you hold any qualifications as such. I appreciate your comments on items but your comments regarding my expertise and standing as an antiques and collectables dealer are not only offensive and belittling, but ill-directed. I will continue to post in these forums and provide only the very best reliable and thoroughly researched advice from previous experience and well-researched topics. Posting a link to my on-line shop was a mistake as I was not aware this was not an allowable thing to do. And by the way Linda, the hit count on my store is just fine thankyou. I must say that I would welcome you to visit our on-line store and I challenge you to prove the validity of what I have listed as being incorrect or unsubstantiated. If you can, then comments you make within this forum as a NON DEALER may have some substance and would be worth considering. My store has exceptionally exquisite and exclusive items which are all of the highest quality and of superb provenance. I would quite confidently state that unless you can provide irrefutable proof that what I am saying within this forum is totally incorrect and of no substance, then you cease and desist from snowballing my comments. What you are saying can indeed be deemed as slanderous and a personal attack and I would hate to think that you would keep going with your belittling comments with this in mind. This is a friendly, people based forum with EVERYONE able to post comments. I am proud to offer my extensive knowledge and expertise to others who are willing to learn and share what I have to offer. You are not the forum moderator, not an expert Antiques dealer so I will say no more other than your comments regarding my posts are ill-informed, malicous and quite self-righteous and it would be quite a disadvantage for you to continue the path you have criticising my expert comments. For all others in this forum, I am happy to answer any questions or provide any advice to you on any item you may have. Thanks very much and this a forum for EVERYONE, not just a single person who is dilluded in thinking that her opinions and non-professional ideas are gospel. I also appreciate input from others as none of us in the trade can say they know about every item they come across. I take offence to those who criticse others in an attempt to glorify themselves when in fact all they do, is cast a shadow of doubt as to their real itent or reasons for becoming part of forums such as these. I am proud to do what I do and will continue to offer iron clad advice if and when requested to do so.

Best regards to all

Dean

Dean


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Dean,
Thanks for the input on crystal and lead. (That's been driving me nuts!) I searched earlier when it came up trying to find info on lead content related to ringing sound, no luck. Just tried another search, changed my terms.

This is what enotes (educational site) has to say:

The Manufacturing Process...
...The lead adds density to the glass so it is heavier; this weight advantage over ordinary glass also changes the crystal's light diffraction properties and the sound or ring of the crystal when it is struck.

Not the concise answer I had been searching for, but it stands to reason if weight advantage due to lead changes the sound of the crystal when struck compared to glass, then higher lead content would create a more resonant ring. Shape of object probably has something to do with it too?


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RE: lobed undulating crystal bowl ID help...

Puhleeze....the fact that I do not choose to be a shopkeeper no way diminishes my knowledge, nor does your decision to sell automatically enhance your knowledge.
33% is the maximum lead content in blown glass...Waterford has lead content between 24% and 33%, depending on the item. High lead content makes glass softer and easier to cut but also more fragile.
Lead content determines the length of resonance of the ring, size and shape determine the tone and loudness.
I see nothing in the bowl in question that suggests Orrefors, Kosta Boda or Holmgaard, I still think it's studio glass, likely from the PNW.


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