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cjlerch_gw

Indentifying Antique Mantel Clock

cjlerch
14 years ago

Hello,

My wife and I recently purchased an antique mantel clock for our one year wedding anniversary in Salisbury, North Carolina. We are not familiar with the subject matter, so I was wondering if anyone could provide some insight.

I discovered from the dealer that the clock has a German two jeweled movement made by Henry E. Frett. As you can see in the picture, the rear door is engraved 'Henry E. Frett - Craftmember - British Horological - Institute # 7890'.

Also, the dealer informed me that this clock was distributed through the Marshall & Field Co. Dept. stores. There is a Marshall Field & Co. name applied to the dial of the clock. I have since discovered that the name changed to Marshall Field's in 1982. This is the only sort of dating I have been able to identify thus far.

The driver license number of the original owner has been very crudely carved into the back of the movement, the inside rear door, and into the wood framing inside the clock. This seems very strange to me. Is anyone familiar with this sort of practice? Why do this? Why in three different locations?

Any help in identifying more details concerning this clock would be greatly appreciated. There appears to be very little information on the web concerning Henry E. Frett. I also would be interested in learning more about why one would carve license numbers as done so on this clock. We paid $200 for the clock and it appears to be in very nice condition both physically and functionally. THANK YOU!

**Please click to see the pictures (http://photobucket.com/clock_2009)

Here is a link that might be useful: **Please click to see the pictures**

Comments (18)

  • sunnyca_gw
    14 years ago

    I have number of things I ID'ed years ago with a number in case they were stolen. Your clock is called a "shelf clock" other than that I can't find anything about it. My books are mostly on American antiques. I do have a British clock book & it has a couple of somewhat similar clocks but no maker listed. Look at your local library either for book to take out or 1 you can look at in their reference books. Judith Miller books are English. Might be able to check at local bookstore & see if you can find it in their Antique books. I Googled the Henry E Frett & British clockmaker Henry E. Frett & came up empty. So you have a nice shelf clock!! Someone must have thought it valuable to mark it in 3 places!! Good Luck!

  • jemdandy
    14 years ago

    A few years ago, it was common practice for people to add their driver's license number to objects for identification purposes in case of theft, or other events. The use of one's social security number was discouraged for obvious security reasons.

  • jemdandy
    14 years ago

    The handle on top signals this may be a "carriage" clock. The handles on carriage clocks could fold down. the clcok would be spring driven and could be transported while running. Run times were from 1 to 8 days. The simpliest were time keepers only. From there, more features were added at additional cost, of course. Possible features:
    1. Strike on the hour
    2. Strike on te hour and half-hour.
    3. Alarm.
    4. Repeat - push a button on top to get a repeat of the hour just struck. If you were traveling and were in a dark hotel room, and you awaken to the clock striking, but were not sure of the hour, you could get a repeat.

    I did a search by Google and found only one clock made by Henry E. Frett. It was a wall clock with a long pendulum and had the word "Regulator" etched in the front glass. The pendulum appeared to be of the temperature compensating type placing it in more modern times, say since 1850. But this showed that the name, Henry E. Frett, did appear on more than one clock. However, we can not be sure if this was the clock maker. Henry E. Frett could have been the owner of a jewelry store who also sold and serviced clocks; He could have contracted to have clocks made for him with his name on it. This name would have been in a prominent location, similar to advertising. Today, we call such practice, private labeling.

    It was common for clock makers to buy movements from a different manufacturer to put into their clocks. Also, but less common, a clock 'mechanic' in desperation might swap out movements thus creating an unknown mix of parts.

  • cjlerch
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thank you for all the insight.

    jemdandy, I found an obituary record (of all things) of a Henry E. Frett, which mentions his beatiful clock making. So I do believe he was a clock maker, but this is all I have found. Also, some other features I forgot to mention (which may contribute to your "carriage' clock suggestion):

    -The clock chimes on every hour and short chimes every 15 minutes!
    -The clock features 4 differnt chime settings: Westminster, Winchester, Whittington, and just silent.

    Does anyone know what the general appraisal range would be for similar shelf or carriage clocks like this one? I have seen ones considerable less and higher than the $200 I paid, so I'm not sure if I got a fair deal or not.

    THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!

  • cjlerch
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Oh, I forgot to mention. The description tag of this clock at the antique store called it a 7-day clock. I have seen many references to 8-day clocks, so I'm not sure if the dealer made a mistake or if there really are 7-day ones.

    jemdandy, yes, the handle does fold down, so I think it very well may be a carriage clock! Thank you for pointing that out- I will need to research this further!

  • lindac
    14 years ago

    Here's a close cousin to your clock. Unfortunately they don't give the selling price.
    From what I remember, those shelf clocks were a popular wedding gift in the 1960's.
    I suspect that yours is from that era.
    I also suspect that the case was made after a clock that was made by the British Horological Society ( that is stamped on the case but not on the works, am I right?) And the works were made in Germany by an unknown maker. Assembled for Marshall Field ( or Ethan Allen or B. Altman's or Bamberger's or The May Company) and the decal applied to the face.
    It's nice, but not really an antique, more "vintage".
    What kind of chime does it have?
    Linda C

    Here is a link that might be useful: Clock

  • lindac
    14 years ago

    A carriage clock was made with a large handle by which the clock could be carried. As stated above they were spring wound and usually brass or perhaps porcelain.
    Your clock is a shelf clock
    And the "8 day" terminology meant that you wind it at the same time every week and it won't ever stop.
    As for your costs, I think you did fine, since it's running well and I would hope recently serviced.
    You could likely buy a very similar clock for about $100, but perhaps you would spend another $100 having it cleaned and serviced.
    Join the site linked and do some research and you will learn more than you want to know about old clocks.
    Linda C

    Here is a link that might be useful: antique clocks

  • cjlerch
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    lindac, Thanks for your help! The site you provided does contain an extensive amount of information conerning clocks!

  • jemdandy
    14 years ago

    I have seen clocks similar to yours listed from $200 to $800 and beyond depending on quality, rarity, condition, or uniquiness. Your clock appears to be in very good condition and runs placing it above the $200 mark. The older collectibles of course, carries a higher price than later models.

    Keep researching your clock. It may turn out to be a very nice piece. Open the clock and look carefully for any sign of a date. Is there a serial number on the clock works? If so, this can be used to date the mechanism. Is there any kind of serial number inside the clock case? Is there a label or repairman's note pasted iside (with a date).

    Very often, clock faces were made by job shops (supplers) to a clock maker. Your clock face has roman numerals all pointing toward the center of the face, thus the numeral, VI, is upside down. This places the face before a transition date. At some point in history, clock makers began turing over the bottom half of the roman numerals so that numerals from 4 through 8 or 9 were right side up. Do some searching for this date as it may provide a clue to age. However, modern pieces can have a face emulating an old style numeral orientation.

  • jemdandy
    14 years ago

    Refer to this site to find a modern copy of your clock by Seiko.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Seiko Carriage Mantel Clock

  • cjlerch
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    jemdandy, Thanks for the help!

    I took another look at the clock and I have found some serial numbers, I believe. On the back of the movement it says-- "627148, Urgos, Made in Germany, 2(two) jewels, unadjusted". Also, on part of the chime mechanism there is "R (or B) 122/15 and then what looks like a "S" inside a circle... It is very hard to identify for sure. Does any of that ring a bell to anyone?

    Thanks again!

  • jemdandy
    14 years ago

    "627148, Urgos, Made in Germany, 2(two) jewels, unadjusted".

    The 6 digit number is probably the serial number.

    The 2 jewels would be the bearing and pivots for the balance wheel with hair spring, a place of high wear. A commonly used material is corrundum. (Transparent, red gem quality, corrundum is known as ruby.)

    "Unadjusted" indicates that the manufacturer of the clock works did not invest time and labor to fine tune the timing of the escapement mechanism. It was set to a nominal position at the factory. The final adjustment was left to the clock maker, merchant, or purchaser. This term has no effect on judging the quality of workmanship of the clock drive.

  • jemdandy
    14 years ago

    To find out more about the clock mechanism, google: urgos germany.

  • dlneedy
    14 years ago

    Henry E Frett was a family friend and neighbor for over 50 years in Palos Heights, IL 60463. "Sir Henry" died in January 2009. He has in his late 80s. Hank, as we knew him, was a watchmaker and superb cabinet maker who specialized in clock cabinets. Marshall Fields sent him all over the world to evaluate antique clocks that they were interested in buying. He built mantel, as well as magnificant grandfather clock cabinets ... Fields bought antique movements and Hank built the cabinets. I have a grandfather's clock that he made that was $10,000. Through his relationship with Marshall Fields (now Macy's in Chicago), Henry was knighted by Queen Elizabeth. His son, William, spent years learning cabinet making from his dad. Don't have a current address for Billy, but he probably still lives in the Palos area. Our family has several of Hank's clocks ... all treasures.

  • lindac
    14 years ago

    Amazing!!...I hope the OP sees this!
    I had a pretty strong feeling that something like this was the case....but never thought of a follow up by a neighbor of the man who made the cabinet! It's a small world!
    Linda C

  • dlneedy
    14 years ago

    I actually have a very similar rosewood bracket clock that "Sir Henry" made for me about 1975-76 ... a time when he was very prolific. My clock is a little fancier ... it has solid brass finials on the top four corners, solid brass claw feet on the bottom, and an ornate solid brass handle on the top ... these decorations were cast from antique molds. My movement, however, is the same sans the Marshall Fields label as I commissioned the clock personally from him. The clock was $900.

  • boettchc
    12 years ago

    I inherited a beautiful grandfather clock made by "Hank" - see dlneedy - who was a friend of my aunt and uncle. I can verify the stories noted above about him. Our clock was a prototype he made to lure fields into employing him - it was last valued at over 10K. :-)

  • HU-333113568
    8 months ago

    I have one too! still chimes and keeps good time! My mom bought in early 70’s?