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berrypatch_gw

What is it?

berrypatch
15 years ago

I have a pair of these. They are 14" high. They don't seem to serve any purpose except to perhaps be ornamental. They appear to be made of cast pot metal. The tops are not open. The two circular sides are attached with a threaded rod that goes through the middle of the piece with brass nuts at each end. The winged figure is cast separately and attached with two threaded rods (don't show from the outside) and nuts.

I'd appreciate any info about what these are and the approximate age.






Comments (27)

  • jemdandy
    15 years ago

    It certainly is decorative, but I have no idea what it purpose is. My wife noticed something in the hair of the figurine. She says, if that is a bird on a nest in the lady's hair, it represents the spring season. There is a poem to that effect describing "a birds nest in her hair".

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks for taking a look at the piece. I think the lady just has hair and some sort of tiara. There are a number of faces throughout the piece. I haven't been able to find anything like this on the internet so far.















  • mahatmacat1
    15 years ago

    I have no idea, just wanted to say that your photography is excellent :)

    (a hunch: a significant clue is going to be the brass parts -- there's no way such an ornamental piece would have those unless it were absolutely necessary)

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks for your feedback. We recently got a better camera for closeups.

  • mahatmacat1
    15 years ago

    Oh, may I ask what you got? A whole camera for closeups? I have a macro setting on mine but I haven't seen yet exactly how close I can get and still keep detail...now I've got a fun project :)

  • lindac
    15 years ago

    I don't think it's pot metal....pot metal is brittle and if it were it would have bits thatw ere kniced or broken.
    Does it hold a magnet?
    I suspect they are purly ornamental....but from where, by whom, when etc....I have no clue!
    But they are nifty!
    Linda c

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    flyleft - The camera is a Canon EOS Rebel XSi;12.2 mp. If you google that model you can get more detailed information about it. It has a 18-55 MM zoom lens and takes "regular" as well as close-up photos. It's single lens reflex camera. You can switch from automatic to manual focus. I don't have a macro lens for it but with this lens you can get within a few inches of a subject and still be in focus.

    Lindac - I tried a magnet and it doesn't stick so I think it's a non-ferrous metal. There is a small crack on the spout of the piece pictured and it shows a silver colored crystalline metal. I think it may be spelter which is a zinc based alloy. I found this description on the net:

    Spelter: Spelter [metal] is an alloy composed chiefly of zinc. It was much used around the latter part of the C19th as a cheaper substitute for bronze, principally in cast decorative pieces, and was often painted or patinated to simulate ivory or bronze. It is very soft and malleable, but when cast tends to be crystalline and brittle, and which when broken shows a granular, silvery fracture plane. In many cases it was copper-plated before any other finish such as gold plating was applied and therefore a worn piece may look coppery. It as quite fragile if thin and there is no really satisfactory method of repair. In some cases such as figurines, a filler such as plaster may be added to give weight and strength. Spelter can often be detected by a scratch in an inconspicuous place showing a bright silver colour where otherwise one might expect bronze or copper.

    A photo of the crack.



  • markmizzou
    15 years ago

    Someone (berrypatch in this case) knows how to control "depth of field" or,in other words how much is in focus. Nice photos to explain your "piece". I am curious -- are you shooting with a DSLR (changeable lenses) or a "point and shoot" (non-changable lenses)?? My guess is a DSLR -- or you have really mastered your P&S very well.
    Either way -- great job!

  • markmizzou
    15 years ago

    Sorry my "old-fart" brain failed me again !! If I had read more -- I would have seen "canon XSi" Nice camera -- my daughter has the same -- I shoot (with a camera) all of my 8 grandkids with a Canon 40D and "Too many lenses"-- according to my wife.

  • folkvictorian
    15 years ago

    Berrypatch - you say that "the tops are not open" -- could they be sealed ash (funeral) containers?

  • lindac
    15 years ago

    I thought that might be a possibility too....but shes aid that the sides were attacheds eparatly.....and that doesn't seem "funerary" to me.
    Linda C

  • jemdandy
    15 years ago

    Have you ever opened it to see if anything is inside?

  • lindac
    15 years ago

    EWWWW!!

  • Ideefixe
    15 years ago

    Garden ornaments? Part of a fountain? I doubt they're funerary urns.

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    When I have a chance, I'll take a cover off and send some more photos. I don't think they are urns.

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Here are a couple more photos. The round pieces attached to the outside have thin metal plates that are fastened to the inside with three clips. These round pieces are not solid; i.e a light would shine through the patterns cast in the pieces if those metal plates were not there. The round sections of the bodies have a small hole (3/8" or so) in the top and bottom so they would hold nothing securely unless it was placed in an inner container.

    I got these from an elderly Aunt several years ago. I'm going to try to find out from her if she recalls anything about them.






  • justlinda
    15 years ago

    Does anybody think that the "animal" feet have any relevance to this piece and also, how heavy is the piece?

  • mahatmacat1
    15 years ago

    Is there anything like "Ask Antiques Roadshow" or something where you can try to stump dealers? IMO this is not just decorative, had a very specific purpose, but maybe it's a purpose we just don't have any use for anymore, so we can't identify it...?

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Each of these weighs 7 pounds.

  • caliloo
    15 years ago

    They are really cool and I'm glad you didn't find someone Aunt Edith or Uncle Ralph when you opened them. I will be keeping an eye on this thread since the are fascinating and I have no idea what they may be for either.

    Alexa

  • jemdandy
    15 years ago

    Since these enclosed space are not air tight, I'm wondering if this was a container to hide fragrances such as rosemary or bayberry.

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Update: I checked with my Aunt about these. She doesn't remember giving them to me and thinks it was another relative. She has had a bit of antiquing experience but doesn't really know what they are. She thinks they may be from Europe and that they may be garden ornaments. I personally doubt that they would hold up outdoors even just during the summer.

  • sweeby
    15 years ago

    Sometimes you get lucky --
    I just Googled "Spelter side opening urn" and look what I found!

    They're calling it a Victorian brass urn and the similarity is amazing.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Victorian Brass Urn

  • sweeby
    15 years ago

    so I did some more Googling. I'm getting more and better hits with 'ewer' rather than 'urn'. 'figural ewer' gets some interesting results as does 'spelter ewer' -- but still nothing like my first lucky guess, and no hints as to the side openings...

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Sweeby, thanks so much for finding this. I had been googling "spelter ewer" and was coming up with alot of items, but none with open sides. The casting seems identical. There is a difference in the treatment of the interiors of the side covers and mine have a small round hole in the flat plate covering the bottom. I'm wondering if this item you found is solid brass or spelter with a brass finish.

  • sweeby
    15 years ago

    I wondered the same thing -- (Brass finish over spelter)
    It looks like the Rubylane piece is being sold by a dealer, and there's some contact information. It's possible she may have more information about the design, though if she did, it would make sense to me that she would have included more information with her listing.

    How easy is it to open the sides? In other words, do you think that was something the maker intended the user to do daily? Monthly? Only once or twice?

    Many of these ewers seem to have been intended to sit on mantles rather than being used for liquids. Clearly yours was primarily ornamental, and wouldn't have been either liquid- or air-tight, though it wouldn't have let light through either since the pierced portions were covered by the thinner plates.

    Might the interior have been intended as a hiding place for valuables of some sort? Though I can't think of what might logically have been hidden there...

  • berrypatch
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    The sides come off very easily and quickly. I'm thinking that they may have been constructed in parts for ease of casting. I bet some people did put things in them.

    I emailed the seller on Ruby Lane:

    I saw your urn and am wondering if you would know the country of origin for this. I have two almost identical pieces that are gray in color. Is yours solid brass or brass finish?

    and this was her response:

    I don't know too much about them, they did have some purpose as the center of mine unscrews for some reason. I have had a couple of others before that did not unscrew and I am sure they were just for decoration.