Return to the Antiques & Collectibles Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Unknown Prints (3)

Posted by jonathangill (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 5, 10 at 18:27

Hello!

I am researching 3 unknown prints. Any information is helpful & appreciated.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Thank You!


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

From your photos and without the benefit of a magnifying glass, they appear to be hand colored lithos...because of the style and the fact that they are what they are I suspect they are from around 1860 to possibly 1900....but likely earlier.
They appear to have some foxing but the colors are bright.
They seem to be a set...telling a story. about an explorer?
I sure wish I could read all the writing....might be clues to the origin.
I am assuming that there is no0 plate line...I can't see one, unless it's under a mat....but I don't see a mat either.
What does the back look like?
Linda C


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

I do not have any photos of the back right now. And If I explained what the back looks like it would be from memory (they aren't with me right now).

I got some feedback from another antique forum. Someone was able to direct me to a site that has one of the maps up for auction.

That site can be found here:

http://www.sanderusmaps.com/antique-maps/europe/moravia--znaim-znojmo-_22145.cfm

The site doesn't provide too much information, but everything is helpful!

What is foxing?

Here is a link that might be useful: Similar Map


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (and more)

Foxing is that brown discoloration that prints on cheap, and also not so cheap, paper get. See the brown spots in the close-up of the printing? That's foxing, and also the discoloration at the corners and edges of some of the prints.

My question about the back are because I am hoping they are not backed with wood or cheap cardboard.

The site linked calls it a copper engraving....
Yours isn't....and I doubt that that one is either.
But it is not unknown to have a later lithograph made from a copper engraving which was made from an oil.


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

Thank you!

They may be backed with wood. I suppose I should have the backing changed on them if that is the case. I will ask the local frame shop what they think I should do.

Thanks again!


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

Don't have the backs changed, it ruins any value they may have.


 o
Moravia

I looked in my old 1960 dictionary & Moravia was a region of C Czechoslovakia, chief city, Brno! It was between Poland & Austria in center of Czechoslovakia. So you know what country they are showing. The ones you have maybe could be restored by an expert. Someone at a frame shop wouldn't know what to do. These things can be cleaned but it takes an expert to do it. Anyone know how much 580 euros is? that is what they wanted for that 1 & it is a company, don't think price is negotiable. I think the "C" up above refers to communist country.


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

Absolutely replace the backs especially if they are wood or cheap cardboard. The acids in the wood will destroy the print.
Old lithographs like that were relativly inexpensive when made, so they were framed without much thought to lasting a long time. Etchings and engraved prints were made with good rag paper and didn't turn brown so quickly.
That's why we can have Albrecht Durer prints from the1 5th century in good shape but Currier and Ives prints that are brown and discolored and crumbling.
And there is nothing that can be done to "restore" a hand colored lithograph. The paints used were water colors, and as I have said the paper was cheap and will often have areas where it will just crumble away if it's been too long in a wood backed frame.

The writing I can see is in Latin...would be interested to know what the other printing says. The dress of the one man is of the 15th or 16th century. The one man appears to be a clergyman holding perhaps a bible? And there is a word "anabaptyl" I think....perhaps referring to the Anabaptists also known as Mennonites? Could the incident pictured have something to with the religous changes that came about at the time of the Munster incident....although the town depicted is plainly not in the Netherlands.
Just some thoughts....
Linda C


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

The last picture seems to have the word Anabaptist below the figures, so it could be something to do with one of their religious leaders spreading the word (Vulgo can mean to impart or spread). The Anabaptists were often persecuted and some came to North America (Amish and Mennonites). It would be great to be able to see the written passages enlarged. I imagine they could be translated and you would have a lot of information there!

It is unlikely that the C. has anything to do with communism which came into existence with the Bolshevik Revolution in 1918. In Latin, civitas means state, so sunny is probably right that the illustrations show some place in Moravia.


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

Thank you all so much for all of your suggestions. Many of them are oh so helpful. I will be taking some macro shots of the passages on the prints. I have tried using online translators to translate, but I have not had much success. Did you know that many translators do not offer Latin as a language choice? Anyway, I will post the pictures of the passages later today.

Thank you all so much!


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

If you live near a university or high school where Latin is taught, try a professor. A lot of the private high schools and parochial schools teach Latin. Also, if you can find an older priest (Jesuit, in particular), you may be able to get help translating the passages. My meager attempts were based on HS Latin, so not a lot of depth there.


 o
RE: Unknown Prints (3)

I can't read the print on your first picture, but I know a little of this history as some of my ancestors were from that region (and my brother lives in Bratislava, not far away). Znaym is both a province and a city in Moravia which is what the large inscription indicates. During the 16th century Moravia tolerated Anabaptists, who flocked there after persecution in Zurich, Munster, and elsewhere in Europe. Eventually they were led by Jakob Hutter, a German hatmaker, who formed the Moravian Anabaptists into a group that practiced Gospel-based communtarian living. When persecutions caught up with them (Hutter was burned at the stake in Innsbruck in 1535), especially under the Catholic Hapsburgs, they fled elsewhere, including the U.S. and Canada--hence, the Hutterite communities that still exist. I'm not precisely sure what role the city of Znaym played, but it would be interesting to find out. Wish I could read the small print of your picture. Is there a date or any names that are readable?


 o
More

I meant to add that Znaym's modern name is the equally unpronounceable Znojmo. :)


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Antiques & Collectibles Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here