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Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures!

Posted by chris18cls (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 22, 12 at 16:11

Hello all,

I purchased a antique plate today that showed signs of age as well as a blue flow color. I'm looking for some help determining the mark and age of the item. Also if someone has a price valuation estimate of what this may be work. I am going to attach pictures to show better details.

There are some interesting marks I'd like to note. If you notice, on the front and backside of the plate there are 3 marks as if thats where the plate was set when being made. As if they were stack while the glaze was a applied. Anyone know what they are?

Size widest point is 8 inches.

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Thanks,

Chris


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

The three marks are tripod marks, where the plate was supported in the kiln with stilts during the glaze firing.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

also called stilt marks.
It's Flo blue...can't read the mark, but is most likely English ironstone....I think I see that the pattern says it is "acadia?" or "arabia"??.
As you can see it's transfer printed, bbut not the really early transfer printed flo blue which had the transfer directly on the biscuit.....and really bled a lot of blue!!
I would say likely dating from about 1880 to perhaps 1910.
It looks like the bottom part of a covered butter dish to me, too badly damaged to have much value. The glaze crackled on a lot of the early pieces and moisture and stuff got into the body of the ware and caused discoloration. You could try submerging it in a 20% hydrogen peroxide (available at a beauty supply place!)solution for a week....it will remove some of the brown stain. and it will make a nicer shelf piece.
Value? Because of the crack and the chip and the discoloration and because it's missing it's lid and it's not a really early piece, I would say $3, $4....maybe $5.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

I think it reads "Arcadia pattern" and "England" but the something something Co. inside the banner is tough to make out.

I think that's really very pretty.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

Ok I found out the mark is wm Adam & son co. Arcadia pattern. Anything special?

Thanks


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

Where did you find the mark? I don't see the Adam backstamp? and William Adams did make an Arcadia....but your dish is not that pattern....at least according to what I see on Replacements.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

I think half the potteries in England (and the U.S.) had a pattern called Acadia. It is blue transfer ware, but calling it flow blue would be a little bit of a stretch. The mark is similar to some I found on that company, but it would put the time frame for the mark back to the first half of the nineteenth century. Possible, I guess. They changed their trademark numerous times and I doubt every reference source had a complete listing of all their marks. The little protrusion you showed in the last picture is probably just a bubble or lump in the glaze, burst over time. If it is, the glaze would be missing at that point.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

I noticed on Replacements they had a pattern called "Arcadia" but the sugar bowl was a red pattern, but lid is almost the same pattern as the blue plate.

Ummm...I wonder if it's the same - only different LOL

Here is a link that might be useful: Replacements....Arcadia pattern


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

The red transfer sugar bowl is very very similar, but It looks different to me.
It plainly says "England" which puts it at the end of the 19th century at the earliest. I see no impresssed mark of any kind and nothing that resembles the British registry mark...again speaking to later rather than earlier.
Flow blue was transferware as was the ware called "historical blue" all flow blue is transferware but all blue transferware isn't historical nor flowing.
Yeah....this piece doesn't flow much....but I guess in any shop it would be called flow blue.
I think that about all we can say for sure is it's cobalt transferware, made in England sometime between 1880 and 1920....and the pattern is called Arcadia.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

It is late 1800s ware and no doubt about that with England marked on it. When I said it's possible I guess, I meant it's possible it's William Adams because I found a similar trademark for that company in an earlier timeframe. Well, I kept plugging, and finally did find an exact duplicate of the trademark and it is indeed William Adams and Company of Staffordshire, England who made that plate.

And you had asked about the fading on the rim. I suppose if it's still got glaze on it, it's not faded. It was just a poor transfer and always had that.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

Lindac, someone told me that if you bleach a piece of stoneware, it becomes more brittle. Is this true of using hydrogen peroxide?


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

I have bleached both with clorox and peroxide. Since I still own the pieces and they are not broken, how would I know if they are more brittle?
And if a piece is so discolored that you don't want to use or display it....what does it matter?


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

I feel the same way as Linda on that. I have also bleached very crazed pieces. Yes, I've heard the same thing, but those pieces I did do see little or no use so aren't so at risk. It's a value judgement each owner has to make on their own. I do believe the peroxide would be gentler on it than bleach. This will make your hair stand on end, but I have some old McCoy and Shawnee pieces I throw in the dishwasher once a year when I do my spring housecleaning. No, I am NOT recommending that, but I've had no issues.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

I have some old mason's pieces, mixed with the newer ( but for the mark, you can't tell) and they frequently get into the dishwasher and are becoming crazed and discolored.
I think those wares you mentioned are more vitrified than some of the old transfer ware.
I have a friend who amassed pretty well a whole set of shawnee corn...plates, mugs, bowls pitchers, corn dishes....etc. they go into the dishwasher and are fine.


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RE crazed

I have some old mason's pieces, mixed with the newer ( but for the mark, you can't tell) and they frequently get into the dishwasher and are becoming crazed and discolored.
I think those wares you mentioned are more vitrified than some of the old transfer ware.
I have a friend who amassed pretty well a whole set of shawnee corn...plates, mugs, bowls pitchers, corn dishes....etc. they go into the dishwasher and are fine.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

You can say that again, lol. No, are you saying the dishwashing is making them that way? I put mine in to get rid of the dark where the grime settles into the crazing. The heat stress from a dishwasher could add to the intesity of the crazing, so that's why I don't do it often, but they come out very lightened so the crazing isn't as obvious and it's a great degreaser. Crazing from age, I don't find all that objectionable in my older pieces, it comes with the territory....but it crosses a line sometimes where it can be very distracting and takes away from the beauty. I think the OP's plate done crossed that line. It's old, but not ancient, not junk, but also not terribly valuable. I'd be cleaning it up a bit.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

Back in the olden days, when the world was young.....and I went to a couple of auctions a week! We would sometimes see stuff that "came from the ditch". When people cleaned out, they just took stuff to the ditch, then when a family member decided that maybe some old stuff might bring some money, they dug stuff out of the muck in the ditch. Old ironstone was discolored and stained, as were things that had been used for a planter, or a water holder on a radiator.

And I have a wonderful old blue pottery pie plate, crazed but not discolored. The first time I used it, apple pie, cooked about an hour and a quarter. that pie dish oozed dark brown grease out of the bottom. The pie didn't seem discolored....so we ate it!
Haven't baked in that dish since!


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

Well, when you think about it, if the crazing is deep enough, it goes clean to the porous interior. Clay would soak it up in a heartbeat. That's why one doesn't put cooking stones into soapy water. Mine have all seasoned off to a nice shiny black, like an iron skillet and it grosses people out when they find out those stones never see soapy water. Ever.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

I have sad tale of soaking Mason's transferware in bleach. I have great square teapot that was very crazed, and I soaked it for days to get rid of the dark lines. Since then, it effloresces: a powdery white something appears from the dry cracks. Soaking in pure water didn't stop it. Since I don't kow what this is, I haven't made tea in it for years, and I really miss using it.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

Ir's clorox that is efflourescing....I sure wouldn't use it for tea.
Tea discolors crazed pottery. Porcelain doesn't craze as much nor discolor.
You know the signature British tea pot? The Brown Betty?...can't see the tea stains in brown pottery!!

Soaking in bleach is for "shelf pieces". You might try soaking your tea pot in distilled water for a couple of weeks, changing the water often.
Then let it dry for at least another couple fo weeks.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

It's probably calcium chloride that's coming out, and that would be harmless, but who knows what else is mixed in with it.


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RE: Antique China Plate identification help please. With Pictures

This may be a very helpful page. I would describe this platter as 'historical blue on white' rather than 'flow blue'. The value is in the pleasure you find in owning it and showing it to friends, even though not monetary. if cleaned a bit as other commenters suggested, I think it would be prettier.

Here is a link that might be useful: English Flow Blue vs Historical Blue on White


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