Wow! And I thought the granite vs solid surface discussions on the Kitchen Forum were lively...I think this discussion is at least as lively!! I just spent probably an hour or so reading every post...one thing I noticed is that no one mentions that many of the TL machines have temperature controlled water fill...mine has a "warm" and "cold" that mixes hot & cold water to meet what's considered "optimal" for cleaning purposes. The amount of each temp water used varies depending on the temp of the water coming in. My manual even states that detergents do not dissolve very well in cold water and that clothes do not wash as well either. What does work better in true cold water is rinse...items rinse more thoroughly in cold water than hot or warm. My washer does have the traditional "hot" and "cold" settings, but I never use "cold" and I only use "hot" for certain linens...I stick to the controlled warm & cold for the vast majority of my laundry. My experience w/washing in hot water is that colors fade quickly--especially darks (navy, black, etc.) so I don't like using hot water. BTW...those of us on a well worry more about water usage b/c we do not want our wells going dry! Which, right now in this moderate-to-severe drought is a very real concern (mid-Atlantic states). My concern, however, is FL options....do I have options for longer/shorter wash cycles, "type" of clothing cycles, "agitation" speed, rinse speed, additional rinse cycles, soak, and, very importantly, can I wash a KS comforter in it? I cannot do so in any (residential) TLer I've owned or seen to-date. For me, it looks like a FL is my primary option. Both my DS and I have allergies and I need to be able to wash our linens in HOT water (to kill dust mites)--that includes towels, sheets, blankets, comforters, curtains, rugs, etc. [My DS is very allergic to dust (i.e., dust mites)] I've been hearing that many of the European makers (Miele, for example) are stripping down their functionality for the US market--not an advantage in my case! I'm currently researching to find out which FL that is sold in the US is best--so if you live outside the US your washers probably don't compare to US washers...sorry, but your experiences w/specific manufacturers/machines, while interesting, may not be relevant to those of us in the US. Any thoughts or comments?

Blood stains are removed easily via cold water to warm/hot (120F-140F)profile wash, or pre-treating the area with any good stain product and or hydrogen peroxide then washing in cool to warm water. Heat sets the protiens in blood, modern enzyme detergents/pre-treatments work quite well in removing such stains. It also helps to flush the stain while fresh with cold water. As for "boil washes", most all my vintage laundry books from about the 1940's on clearly state boiling laundry went out with modern automatic washing machines and certianly as laundry products have evoloved from soap. Boiling was done mainly as a way to loosen muck,grime and other soils from laundry without all the rubbing/scrubbing one had to do prior to automatic washing machines. Very hot water washes were also a way of combating common vermin found in laundry (lice, nits, fleas, etc), which happily are not as widespread today. Very hot water washes do offer a way of sanitising laundry, but at widely differnt temps. E coli requires only 160F at 20 minutes, but yeasts, and other types of bugs require much higher temps for longer contact times. It must also be remembered that there was much more of an emphasis on "boil washes" in eras past when there were few if any modern disenfectants and especially antibiotics. Cathing a germ until as recently could almost mean certian death, unless one was strong enough to fight off the infection, even then many still died. Therefore housewives did everything they could to keep their homes "germ free". However because of modern sanitation and health care we simply do not see the sorts of illnesses/widespread diseases housewives commonly were used to. Thyphoid fever, measles, cholera, minor strep or staph infections that rapidly turned into major systemic infections which caused everything from child birth fever to pneumonia can are are controlled. Also modern hospitals have replaced sick rooms in the home. This means less disease in homes to infect other members of the same household. The final reason for very hot water washes was that perborate/percarbonate bleaches require temps of 120F/130F and above to become really effective. The lower the water temp, the longer contact time must be for equal results. Modern chemistry as gotten around this problem by creating "activated" oxygen bleaches found in most better quality detergents/laundry products. Bleach activator chemicals when combined with oxygen bleaches in wash water,provide equal or better bleaching/stain removal action at wash temps of 100F, and even 80F. This is why repeated washing of darks even in cold or cool water using products such as Perisl or Tide will eventually "bleach" those colours. Activated bleaches also provide very effective disenfection of laundry at wash temps of 100F to 120F, with a contact time of at least 20 minutes. In fact the chemical produced by combining oxygen bleach and bleaching activators "Peracetic acid" is a very, very effective broad spectrum biocide and stain remover. Peracetic acid is such an effective biocide that brewers and other use it to clean stainless steel vats because unlike chlorine bleach it does not cause damage. Commercial and hospital laundries around the world have long switched to activated oxygen bleaches because they can obtain the same level of stain removal/disenfection at wash temps of 120F or lower, which results in a savings on energy costs. It also results in longer textile life as lower wash water temps are less harsh on textile fibers. Again, unlike chlorine bleaches (never very popular outside of the United States for laundry use), activated oxygen bleaches do not cause textile damage. For all the above reasons, the average wash temp in Europe/UK is widely documented to be 40C. The use of activated oxygen bleaches, and better detergent formulas has really removed the requirment for long boil washes. Of course if one uses lower quality detergents and mainly cool/cold water washes, that is a different matter all together. Americans have really only recently "rediscovered" front loading washing machines, and built in water heaters. Just because one can launder something at 160F to 200F, does not mean one ought to; first of all not many items produced today can withstand repeated super or even very hot water washes. Second of all many American detergents are not designed for long boiling washes. Designed with enzymes and activated bleaches, they work quite well at wash temps of 140F and below, (140F-120F the common setting of most hot water heaters in American homes, with 120F usually the factory setting). Indeed long wash times with detergents not desigened for the purpose can lead to poor results, as the componets of said detergent begin to loose their soil suspension ability, allowing removed soils to redeposit back onto laundry. Conversely many European detergents designed for long boil washes have been redesigned to work in lower wash temps and or shorter cycles. Have washed everything from badly soiled table linens to muddy gardening clothes setting my Miele to ho higher than 120F and using plain old Tide or Wisk dual action tablets, and the results have always been great. Have also "restored" vintage linens that had foxing stains (that yellowing one sees from linens lying about stored), using the same low wash temps, but quality products. My Miele goes up to 200F, and cannot remember the last time (aside from occassional "maitaining washes), ever laundering anything at that temp. Especially as I still do quite a bit of ironing, and cottons/linens laundered at very high temps emerge with lots of wrinkles. Simply do not fancy making more work for myself. C.dS

Please allow me to post my opinion and experience on this stinky issue. I am the owner of a HE3T washer, and I am really unhappy with it, mainly because of the smelly and moldy issue, that crept up on us unexpectedly. My wife and I have 4 kids, so doing laundry is a daily affair, and not to be underestimated or procrastinated either... I am on the verge of throwing that ugly beast out of the laundry room for good. It is unbearably revolting to pick up an (alleged) clean towel to dry one's face just out of the shower, and "smear" moldy smell all over you. The vomit factor is very high on this one.... :-( However, I want to highlight a point, and that this issue is NOT an issue with ALL the FL (front loader) washing machines in general. Maybe just US made ones... Overseas, ( Italy ) where I grew up, FL are 99.999999% of laundry machines available on the market and this issue is completely unknown. To put it simply, I am now 45 years of age, I have lived in Italy 28 of those years, and I have never, ever, seen or heard of moldy smell on clean laundry out of the washer. Never. If you knew my mother (she redefines the word "neat freak") you would understand. Just the hint of a remote possibility of having mold in the washer and/or laundry, would bring that washer in the front yard in flames... Seriously, I believe US manufacturers have gone wrong somewhere in the making of this machines. They either cut one too may corners ( quality of rubber, maybe ?) or are attempting to reduce the amount of water in the cycle at the point where the quality of the rinse cycle is not an issue with them, and us as consumers are not part of the equation. I just came back from a one year of living in Italy with wife and kids, and the FIRST thing we notice, ever single time we go over there, is how much fresher and overall incredibly better smell of "clean laundry" they have from their washers. I know, we are weird... and on the contrary, as soon as we are back to the US, and to our $#@! HE3T, we pick up the moldy smell again. The customer/user/consumer SHOULD NOT have to do any gimmicks or use any "special" tablets, in order to operate these washers, or any washer, for that matter, NOT A SINGLE ONE. This washers are NOT cheap and they should just... well, work. Living in Italy for the last 12 months, we used two washers, one that came with the apartment we rented, and besides a slower spin cycle, it worked as expected (put dirty clothes in, put detergent, push the button, wait, get wet CLEAN laundry out, END OF THE story. Then the landlord needed his washer back, and for a "rent discount" he took that one back, and I got my old 12 years old Miele washer out of storage. This Miele has a somewhat smaller load capacity than most, and it worked for a family of 6 for a long time. Same for my mother's Candy ( Italian brand), and my sister's old Italian washer (San Giorgio). That one lasted 16 years of day in and day out operation for a family of six. It is just so frustrating, since I know that as a concept, FL do work very well, I have seen it work for decades... and one more time, we should NOT need to use "tablets" or do complicated procedures to have clean and good smelling laundry. As I said before, millions of people overseas use FL day in and day out, without doing anything else other than 1) put dirty laundry in 2) select cycle 3) put detergent in 4) push button 5( get clean clothes out. End of the story. Kenmore, Sears, whatever, get your acts together !!

I just can't see the big deal about a heater that is active on all cycles Have you read the group FAQ on heaters? If the current sanitary kills 99.999% of the bactaria then why the need to have it hotter? how huge improvement would that be? Well, first of all, I question your figures. In truth, just washing and drying kills *most* of the bugs and bacteria, but not necessarily the ones you should be most concerned about. For dust mites you need protracted heat at a genuine 140F; most of the washers with heaters already did that, those without heaters would be hard-pressed to maintain even 120F. To kill E. Coli needs 160F; not all washers, even those with 'sanitary' cycles, can get there. For conjunctivitis you need to go as high as possible, preferably with bleach as well. In fact, the additional microbiocidal effect of temperatures above 80C is well-established, cf Davis, S., & Ainsworth, P. (1989). The disinfectant action of low-temperature laundering. Journal of Consumer Studies and Home Economics, 13 , 6166; also Belkin, N. L. (1998). Aseptics and aesthetics of chlorine bleach: Can its use in laundering be safely abandoned? American Journal of Infection Control, 26 (2), 149151. Of course, one can argue that science is "asinine" and we should just make stuff up about the utility or lack thereof of higher temperatures for laundry. In fact, someone who made their living selling washing machines might well argue that the machines they sold were all one would ever need. And the heater on cold fill, sounds great but if you are already drawing the hot water from the water heater as an assist and yet boost it up to adequately remove stains for stain removal and stain treatment, what more do you want? The extra cleaning power from heating gradually from cold in the machine is well-established, which is why so many European machines have moved to cold-fill-only. I think the performance feature is quite adequate enough? One man's adequate is another man's dirty. Many people here talk about how they only wash at low or medium temps and their clothing is perfectly clean. However, according to the experiments described here: http://www.sifo.no/files/file48506_fagrapport2003-1.pdf if you wash your underwear at, say, 40C, then whatever you wash with it will be teeming with e. coli when you remove it from the laundry. You don't see the e. coli, so might think you are putting on a nice clean shirt, when in fact you are draping yourself in germs. In fact, recent studies indicate that this is not just a theoretical consideration, and that there is a correlation between illness and doing laundry in cooler water without bleach, see Larson, Lin, and Gomez-Pichardo (2004) Predictors of Infectious Disease Symptoms in Inner City Households. Nursing Research, 53, 190 - 197 While we needn't obsess about temps (after all, you can always add chlorine bleach or phenolic oils to a cooler load to kill germs), there is no denying that higher temps offer more, genuinely useful options. - DR