Does no one understand what "appropriately dressed" means anymore?

Times have changed. We have to get used to this, everyone dresses for comfort now. I know what your saying but we can't change what is happening. You did what you thought was right, and appropriate, we can only judge ourselves.

JoAnn said it perfectly. Yes, maybe we are dinosaurs when it comes to fashion. I have yet to see what you have described though.

In the wake's that I have attended most dressed appropriately. Others come in sneakers and jeans. That said, I have not seen sneakers and jeans at the funeral.

I feel we should dress with respect for the occasion. For men, they should all have a decent pair of slacks and a dress shirt on hand. (A suit or sports jacket would be great) and for the women a nice pair of dress slacks, skirt, blouse(one for summer one for winter)

I think funerals in general have become less solemn affairs for many people, generally at the wish of the deceased. My mom made it clear that when she died, she wanted a celebration of life, and wouldn't have wanted people dressed up in black. She wanted colorful, comfortable clothing because that's the type of person she was.

Now obviously that won't apply to everyone but I do hear of these sort of situations quite often.

It isn't that you're a dinosaur- its that you're really judgmental. Its a consistent theme in your posts. Anyone who does something different than you or has different taste is lesser.

Oh heck, I"m sure a dinosaur that I always try to look nice when I go to a doctor's app't. Not just clean - that should be a given (but many nurses have told me that this is, unfortunately, not always the case!), but just nicer that a quick run to Kroger.

Of course, I remember the time when no self-respecting woman would go "downtown" to shop without wearing a nice dress or suit, heels, stockings, and often, even a hat! No, I don't go THAT far!

I always remember that famous picture of the "Three Queens" taken on the way to King George VI's funeral; his mother, Queen Mary, his wife, the Queen Elizabeth, and his daughter, Queen Elizabeth. They were all wearing full mourning garb and Queen Mary, a force of nature, is still ramrod straight as she had always been, Queen Elizabeth (his wife) so clearly devastated, and his daughter, the new Queen, so very young. It's just such a powerful picture.

Around here visitation dress is informal, street clothes even. This is rural farm country, and many are dressed as such.

The funeral is another matter, Sunday best all around. The thing is though, that Sunday best for some is a new pair of bib overalls and long sleeved flannel shirt. My brother in law, who always dressed that way, was laid out that way.

OMG! I went to a funeral service in a town, even smaller than my town, at the local funeral home. Was I ever surprised! The organist (youngish female) was wearing a T shirt and..............wait for it..........bib overall shorts!

Quite different than what I was used to!

I for one am glad things are more informal now. I hate getting dressed up. I used to not attend at all rather than have to go through finding "appropriate" attire. Wouldn't wear flip flops and shorts to a funeral but clean dark, jeans and a nice shirt or top works for me.

I don't think you're being judgemental. You come from a 'culture' where dressing up and looking your best is considered respect and not dressing up is disrespect. I've heard this voiced before from other people. What is 'appropriate' varies from group to group.

This was a visitation and not a funeral. Those same people may dress nicer for a funeral.

I attended a funeral a few years back where I was taken aback to see one attendee wearing old, worn shorts and a ratty T shirt, more suited to a day of gardening worn by an older lady who (I know, it's a small town) could afford better and should have known better. I have no problem with colours,etc, but to me "neat casual" should be the minimum for a funeral, especially in a church.

So the family mourning the loss of their mother and grandmother were dressed comfortably for a visitation and you feel they were disrespectful?

Whom were they disrespecting? It surely wasn't the deceased, who is no longer here, and it obviously wasn't each other. Were they disrespectful towards you because of how they dressed?

I guess I'm just not understanding. If the family was dressed in formal attire and a guest showed up in jeans, a torn t-shirt and flip flops, I would say they were being disrespectful to the family but that doesn't seem to be what you are describing.

Regarding open casket, it's the family's choice and I know that many wish to see their loved one one final time.

I sure hope people don't dress up for my funeral if my kids decide to have one for me. Don't really want one myself. I mean, lot of money for nothing. Just burn me up and scatter me somewhere pretty.

I was taught it was a matter of respect to dress up for important occasions, so I try to make an effort for weddings and funerals. But mostly, I'm glad we've relaxed standards. Perhaps the family will dress up a bit more for the funeral, than for the visitation.

Comfortable doesn't mean only jeans and sweats. I don't know that you needed to struggle into hose, but you did make an effort -- while the family did not. "Lazy" is the word that comes to my mind.

They were there representing their family. IMO they were disrespectful -- of those attending the visitation.

I don't do viewings. Nope. No way, no how. When my mother in law died almost 3 years ago, I had to go, but my husband and his family know that I would refuse to go in and see her. I want to remember people smiling and laughing, not dead in a coffin. For viewings, I don't think it matters how you dress. You're not there for a fashion show. And I really don't think the family of the person who died, really cares that you wore your Sunday best, just that you took time out of your day to be there for them. But the funeral itself? It depends on the person who died. I never wear black. Ever. When my son died, I wore my grey dress pants and bought a red blouse. Red was his favourite colour. And I honestly didn't care if anyone wore blue jeans. I know my son didn't care either. When I die, my kids know I don't want a funeral. People can come over and have coffee and cookies and just be there for my family. They all know that if religion is brought into my funeral, I'll come back to haunt them. I want them to celebrate the life I had. No black. I don't care if you show up in a burlap bag. Just come and be there for my family. I'm kind of glad my husbands family believes the same way I do. Most of the family wears blue jeans and nice shirts and sports coats. Cowboy hats and boots too.

There was a time I would not have considered going to visitation in anything but stockings and heels, but have relaxed a little. I think I'm appropriate in nice pants and a jacket, which is what DH would wear most of the time...although there have been a few very formal Catholic services where a suit is required (may I say in his age group?).

I should add though that when not family where he could more easily take time off, but still feeling it was important to show his respects, he has gone to a funeral in work clothes more than once, and stood quietly in the back not calling attention to himself, signing the guest book and slipping right back out at final prayer. He would make that choice rather than not go at all.

As for open casket, I don't think I see as many open these days but that family choice has been all over the board. Open at visitation, closed funeral, open for both or neither, and, no casket with many choosing cremation. Another choice I'm seeing more often is private family service and celebration of life for friends and neighbors at a later date with the 'guest of honor' present only in photo displays.

My husband and I are both 69. I do not own a skirt or dress. He has never owned a suit. My dress clothes are tan or black slacks with black knit shirts. His dress jacket is an old corduroy sport coat complete with patches on the elbows.

We come as we are. You don't like it, don't invite us.

As I understand it, at one time, an open casket was required to insure that the body being buried was the one purported to have died. Sometimes, the casket was closed during the public ceremony if beforehand, nearest relatives had viewed the body and agreed that it was the reported deceased.

Closed caskets are common for "green" burials where no embalming has been used.

I couldn't care less what guests wear to a visitation or a funeral - they came and that's enough for me. But to me, for family members it's another matter. This woman was always impeccably dressed - looking nice was important to her. Her husband was in a suit. Surely her family could have made a bit more effort.

Gosh Anglophilia, I'm sorry for your loss. I bet your friend didn't care what anyone was wearing, so neither should you. Hopefully she didn't notice your angst and doesn't mind you dissing her family and is RIP.

Times have changed and it's a good thing.

Those of you who have spent more than 30 seconds of your life being concerned with what anyone has worn at any particular event or point in time should consider devoting serious effort into finding more hobbies to better occupy your time.

The members of the British royal family are respected as an institution for their historical significance and as symbols of the nation but the British people I know have little or no respect for any of them as individuals. I remember one of them commenting that they consider Queen E to be dignified but otherwise daft.

Geez, what a snobby attitude. Be glad the woman's family was even there. Not showing up would be disrespectful. Who cares what people wore. They could be dissing you right now for being a snob and looking down your nose at them. They most likely won't remember what you wore.

How sad that respect and general decorum are now considered "snobby". And a sense of appropriateness is as well. When one is dressed appropriately, it's not about remembering what you or someone else wore, it's that being dress INappropriately is when people remember. I wouldn't wear stockings and heels to the gym, but neither would I wear workout clothes to a job interview.

As I said - trifles show respect.

As for some people thinking the Queen is daft - well, would that we all be as daft as that remarkable woman.

No, respect and general decorum aren't snobby, it's your attitude toward other people who don't meet your standards that is snobby. And judgemental. People went to that woman's service to show respect for her. It doesn't matter what they wore. Just the fact that they were there is what matters. For all you know, perhaps they were requested to not dress up, to "come as they are."

Pope Francis has made an effort to wear less finery in an effort to show humility. This has been met with mixed feelings as traditional papal garb was extremely fancy and costly. But many ordinary folks are starting to return to the church, finding a new acceptance.

This reminds me of the lively discussion we always had with students on "appropriate dress" for church etc. "God doesn't care he just wants us there" to "Sunday best". Feelings run deep and strong. Those with more limited income often feel terribly judged. Other's feel terribly smug. I always prefer to remember rarely is an occasion about ME. It is a show of intimacy if one dresses in a manner that is a nod to the guest of honor. At the wake described originally, it sounds like the family chose not to respect the taste and wishes of their loved one. It does matter how we present ourselves. It sends a message about what we think of the event and what we think of ourselves. Ya might not like it--but that is the bottom line. In the case of Church I always told my students God asks for OUR BEST. It is in the Bible over and over--" First fruits, unblemished...." What that "best" is only you and God know. If you can't get there except after a 12 hour shift and you are disheveled after a long day--God knows you came!! If you are just too lazy to be bothered to put on anything better than your sweats as you crawl out of bed to get to church--God knows. There is a HUGE spectrum between full on dress/hose/heels and bib overalls. Is it really too much to ask people think of others once in a while? I hope not.

It is too much to ask me to think about what you or anyone else will think about what I am wearing when I am preparing to bury a loved one or worship. Its not about you you say,but i am suppossed to think ahout what "message " im sending to you? Please. I don't go to a funeral to impress and I don't go to church to show off my fashion sense. I can't believe that on this occasion,with a deceased loved one right there, ones attention goes to what people are wearing. News flash. Theyre dead. They dont care. Funerals and wakes are for the living. In this case,it appears much of the living decided to be comfortable. Personally,I wear a dress or nice pants and a top to such things. Just my inclination. I don't notice what other people wear. I am there to grieve. Why in the heck should i think about what others in attendance think about my clothes?!? At church,you should be paying attention to the message,not sitting in judgement of others attire. If you do that, you might as stay at home. I wonder if the person in question sat in judgement of others. Liking to dress and present themselves a certain way doesn't mean that they expect it of others or make catty comments about them. (Although as I can see by some of the comments here,it sometimes does)

Not only have times changed, but the people on this forum have changed. Everyone has different opinions and they are entitled to them. The way they have been expressed in this post seems a little harsh to me. I'd like to think that tactfulness has not gone out of style. JMO

Yes, everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. There are valid views in all the posts.

Number one for me is how you treat someone while they are here. The rest is "fluff.'

When I die, I'll donate my body to make a speed bump.

I was with you right up until you clarified saying, because she was always put together well her family should've been. What? I could never live up to my mom's standard of dressing. She is always put together quite well; over and above even. Turning your thought on its head, there is no way my mom could do what I do at my job. Should couldn't keep up the pace I do, and interact with people in all echelons of society showing the correct deference to their specific culture, because she hasn't learned their ways. Not even when she was my current age (we worked together in another industry. She's thorough, not fast, or particularly flexible). We are who are.

I think we should keep in mind the level of the person to whom you are referring-that's good manners-making them feel comfortable in their own skin.

I grew up poor. Mom raising 4 children on a small salary working in a sewing factory wasn't easy. But regardless she taught me several important things about grooming and dress code...first and foremost she taught me** there's no excuss to not use soap and water daily** and there's **appropriate way to dress for each occassion in life** Play, school, church, weddings, funerals ect...We did not wear our play clothes to church nor did we wear our church clothes to play in. i dont ever recall Mom ever saying we dress in our finest for Church ect...to show respect for others.. instead it was we dress in our finest for certain occasions to show **Self Respect**.

I would never dream of going to a Funeral or Church in jeans or sweats...not because I'm boastful, but because I respect myself. I believe there's an appropriate way to dress for different occasions in life. My heart my be full of pain and sorrow but I'm alive my brain did not die along with my loved one. I'm surprised at how many here think jeans or sweats are ok to wear to a Funeral. .in another post did I read that some of you go out to the grocery store in slacks and a blouse? ? Or am I inventing that?

If I was at a Funeral and seen people arrive in jeans and sweats I'm going to notice because I'm not blind,my eyes may be blurred, my heart my be swollen with grief but I'm not blind. This thread really has stunned me. Would the negitive responses to what the OP has said be the same if someone else posted this...

Wear jeans or sweats to a Funeral. ..no way.

What I find snobby is going to a visitation and judging and looking down your nose at the family of the deceased, you know, the people you have come to pay respect to.

Frankly, to go to such event and then JUDGE them for not dressing up enough for you is extraordinarily snobby.

They weren't there for you, and you shouldn't have been there to look down your nose.

Perhaps in these situations, you should remember, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

mama, if it helps: I wasn't saying I'd wear jeans, etc. to a funeral (home), I was saying I object to Anglo's reasoning why they should wear what she thinks is appropriate, and that really, how they dress is ultimately up to them. Be kind to them. That's what I was saying.

I agree Mamapinky. And, although opinions run the gamut here and I can see both sides, Anglophilia has a RIGHTt to express what SHE is feeling. This is what the KT is for!

I have an older sister who is married to a doctor. She also worked for most of the marriage in a high paid position. To look at how they dress, you would think they were very low income. For my wedding I had to drop hint after hint at what was appropriate for her and her family. She thought sneakers for her sons would be appropriate. I'm sorry but I insisted she buy them shoes, at least for the pictures. If they wanted to change later, they were welcome to.

I agree that you might not think about it twice when someone comes dressed for the occasion, but they stand out when they don't. The idea is to blend in.

On the other side of the coin. My youngest is invited to a wedding next month and she is starting to shop for a dress. It's an afternoon wedding. She likes my opinion and I have on occasion even found things that she winds up wearing. She is young, fashionable and edgy. So, of course she starts looks at dresses a bit "out there." No!

My advise to her always is, you don't want to stand out at a wedding! So, she then dials things back.

To wear something inappropriate does distract from the occasion. In this day and age with all the discount store and sales, one can have a pair of pants, blue/shirt on hand in case something should arise.

Dressing appropriately is definitely not being snobby. I don't own nice things anymore since being retired, nothing fits, hard to find dress clothes in stores. At least for me. But I do own decent slacks, shoes, and a nice blouse or two. I've probably worn the same outfit to every occasion that calls for it. :)

Anyway, most people now days think, "This is the way I am, if you don't like it, too bad."

"This is the way I am, if you don't like it, too bad." Schoolhouse, we posted at the same time.

Exactly!

Just to point out, sometimes I attend visitations or funerals out of respect for my personal memory of the deceased, not knowing the person's family at all. Other times, I didn't know the deceased, but was close to a family member and want to show support for that person. Does that make a difference in anyone's mind?

When I look back at the memorial service for my daughter, which was held outdoors, and the evening visitation at the funeral home for my husband, I can't tell you what even one person wore. If someone showed up in jeans (not unlikely) I wouldn't have given it a second thought. The important thing is they took the time and made the effort to be there.

I always think that the way we dress and behave should be polite. Drawing attention away from the bride at a wedding is impolite, so I wouldn't a white dress, I wouldn't wear a cocktail dress, and I wouldn't wear sweats. At a funeral, it's sort of the same, not with respect to the person who has passed away, but rather to the ones who have lost a loved one. I once attended a funeral for a small child. His poor mother, sobbing her eyes out, was wearing a black cocktail dress, probably the only black dress she had, and a pair of flip-flops. Attire was the last thing on her mind.

Yes, times have changed and it was just recently I was thinking about how attire at our church has changed over the years. There was a time when it wasn't acceptable for farmers to work on sundays. Then, they started working half days, after church. Soon they began wearing their work clothes to church. Then they started not attending church, working instead. Now, many people wear jeans and a top. Mostly the young people. I don't think God cares what they wear as the purpose is to worship, not put on a fashion show and be judged whether you're worthy.

To me it's really unfair to judge the families of the deceased. There is a lot to attend to in a very short time.

Before my Dad died, my sister, who lives on the opposite coast, chose to take time off from work and come here to spend time with Dad while he was still living. This made it impossible for her to come for the funeral services. You can't imagine how rude people were questioning her decision. Her choice to come when she did was not made lightly. It was something all of us discussed for a time before she made that decision.

My oldest son, who was very close to his grandfather, did not go to the services. He had only recently given up his job and apartment up north to come back here to help take care of my Dad. When Dad died, he was overwrought with emotion. The whole family was supportive of him not attending. Instead, he stayed behind and got ready for "friends" visitation at home.

Besides all that comes with losing a loved one, one of the greatest stress factors for us was having to explain why 2 people that loved him so greatly was not in attendance. Who do these people think they are???

You shouldn't judge. You don't know what's behind whatever the situation is.

It's a different time and a different culture and common practices of the past are now no longer strictly adhered to. Dressing 'appropriately' - whatever that means - is only one example. I wouldn't consider it a sign of respect or disrespect to dress as one wishes or feels most situationally comfortable - only a sign that 'the times they are a changing'!!

I am of an age and culture that would make an attempt to dress up more than my usual attire to attend a visitation, wake, funeral or memorial service but it is far less about dress than it is about paying my respects to the departed and their family by being there in person, regardless of what I or them were wearing.

I too was grateful for everyone who came to my father's services, regardless of their attire. But that does not mean I would personally wear jeans to a funeral.

As shown above, there is disagreement on this. I don't think the OP is being old-fashioned or "looking down on people."

One should make an effort to dress appropriately. As to those in attendance, it is not really about that person's comfort. It is not really about that person at all. It is about the occasion and the person being remembered.

"I know I should lighten up"... You said it yourself, why not take your own advice?

The OP came here and voiced her opinion. I doubt she said anything to anyone at the Funeral on how they dressed. This is what the KT is for. I don't understand why her opinion about inappropiately dressed people makes her a look like she's looking down her nose at people or considers them lesser....if I went to a fineral and seen people in jeans and sweats I may have pi sted my opinion here also..doesn't mean I feel better than anyone else. Just means maybe I have more self respect. I don't think this is about what the greiving family feels, but more about how we feel when we dress for an event. Personally I couldn't care less who dresses in what as long as I feel dressed in respect. But I also don't see anything wrong with the OP voicing her opinion ....everyone else here has.

Look the loved one(s) in the eye ... shake hand (maybe give a hug) ... speaking to their pain a great deal more important than comments on how normal the deceased looks.

That said ... visitation, or funeral, or memorial, I'll dress in a way that I think appropriate, respectful, which currently is somewhat less "dressy" than when I was much younger - and society had somewhat different standards.. But, were I female, I doubt that would include the inconvenience of toes jammed into a shoe that had a few inches under the heel.

But ... those considerations a lot farther down the priority level than my interaction with the bereaved ones.

ole joyful

Women don't need to cram their toes into ill fitting or high fashion shoes nor do they need to wear a dress in order to dress appropiately for Funerals.

LOL

This thread is not about what *other people* wore to a visitation. It's about what the deceased's *family* wore. It was inappropriate to represent the family in this formal occasion dressed in jeans and sweats. This is a life passage event, not a quick trip to the convenience store.

Do we really believe the same people don't dress more formally for work, for dates...for their HS proms?

Oh, well. Nevermind. "God doesn't care." (What a ridiculous 'stretch' in service of laziness!) Heck, why *wash*?

Saw-not seen

I think joyful jogged something out of my head, so I'll post one more comment, the pain, discomfort, anguish goes so deeply, why bother with the surface appearance. Delve past the superficial, feel their pain with them. That's important.

"Delve past the superficial"

This is wise advice, applicable to all of everyone's daily experiences with the world around you. And far too rarely practiced, and for some, not practiced at all.

I wear running shoes everywhere, and am sure it causes a lot of judgmental comments. My doctors have told me that for health reasons, that even flats will cause a reoccurrence of a foot problem that will require surgeries to correct. And then there is the insert for the left that prevents me from needing Achilles tendon surgery. And a different type of insert in the right shoe due to problems after shredding cartilage in my right knee. My footwear fits in with most casual settings. But at weddings, funerals and more formal events, I'm sure the snob councils get a conversation workout. MYOB.

No, this isn't about what to wear to a funeral. It's about the OP's attitude towards people who don't dress in a manner that she finds appropriate. It's about her snobbiness and looking down on people who don't meet her standards. It's a common theme.

Since I don't know anything about this common theme I can't make an opinion on it in that regards so my opinion on what the OP posted is completely unbiased.

I will be happy if anyone comes to my funeral. I don't care how they look. If they truly cared for me and care that I passed away I could care less what they wear. I understand though your feelings. My mother and father are so casual that sometimes it has been tricky when we're all supposed to look nice and they are in flip flops and shorts. They do look nice but not appropriate for fancy dinners.

I can only speak for me and my siblings but when our mother past away last year, we all dressed more casual. Certainly not out of disrespect for our mother or the circumstances because all of her 5 daughters, their husbands and her grandkids completely adored her and are still mourning the loss. No, it's because we knew that's how she would have wanted it. Even the large mass of friends and extended family knew and dressed casually. Her farewell was representative of her; positive and upbeat, not dark, somber and sad with everyone in black, sweating and uncomfortable in 90 degree weather wondering how much longer it would last.

I think for many families, the tradition of dress up at funeral's is dead and gone.

I agree with lukkiirish. When it's time for my mother's funeral, I'll be in something colorful because that is what she would have liked. I doubt anyone will even notice, though, since it'll be a tiny affair, probably just my father, husband and maybe a caregiver or 2. I won't care what they wear, but I hope it'll be colorful, too.

Anglophilia, I agree with you that jeans and sweatshirts are inappropriate. I don't think that a dress or skirt is required, but at least dressy casual and a shirt with a collar for men.

Who gets to be the almighty decision maker on the definition of "appropriate"?

When I die, I want my son to wear his KU shirt and cap!...that is the way I see him most of the time and I do not expect them to "dress up" for my visitation...and neither do I expect them to wear suit and ties to my funeral. If I would not care, why should anyone else care? I want people to come and show support to my family, not to be critical of what they wear!

To those who think the family was dressed appropriately: Is there anywhere -- or any occasion -- that you think DOES merit wearing clothing a step up from what you'd wear to the convenience store on the corner? Do you think 'casual wear' means jeans and a sweatshirt? Do you own anything 'better'? Where and when do you wear it?

I don't think it's necessarily that people think they were dressed appropriately or inappropriately. It's more that grieving people get a pass on wardrobe choices and they shouldn't be judged.

Things like job interviews, weddings, fine dining, other typically dressy events are generally happy occasions, and even then some are casual and dressing up would be out of place. I can't think of a single occasion where dressing up would always be the most appropriate move.

My husband works at a video game company and someone who interviewed in a suit would be very out of place and it would probably hurt their chances because new hires need to fit into the company culture. For the same reason, someone showing up in jeans and a t-shirt to an investment banking firm might be viewed negatively. It just depends.

You can wear dress up clothes to a funeral and still think the family was fine in what they wore. Personal preferences and tolerance can coexist.

Chisue, that was going to be my next question.

And who said a dress or tie?

Appropriate was the term used, not black tie or cocktail dress dressy. I also seen nothing said about clothing needed to be black.

Jmc..I'm no almighty anything, but there's a vast difference in dressing for a Funeral and dressing for lunch at the local diner.

Chisue, your comment made me laugh out loud!

I am wondering too, for those that don't "dress up" is it because this is how your whole circle of friends and relatives will show up? Maybe a city versus country thing?

Chi,said It's more that grieving people get a pass on wardrobe choices and they shouldn't be judged.

I don't think Anglophilia meant it that way. I think she was just referring to the event and the following a dress code.

Chisue- I think chi said it perfectly. It's more that grieving people get a pass on wardrobe choices and they shouldn't be judged.

If OP had been referring to those visiting the family, I would agree with the remarks. I just think the family mourning the loss of their loved one should get a pass on "dressing appropriately.". They have more going through their heads than finding uncomfortable clothes to wear while greeting visitors.

I enjoy putting on my good clothes. Sometimes people behave a little better in their best clothes. Everyone should come and treat the others with love and respect.

I remember going to a Romanian American wedding in 80s in the Romanian orthodox church. All the ladies wore black or navy blue except the bride in White. I felt odd in pink with white lace trim and pearls. But they made me feel welcome anyway. Everyone brought flowers for the bride which I thought was a lovely tradition. I don't think any of them would ever wear casual wear to a solemn event. Our family was always dressed up for everything but a picnic or camping.

If I wanted to wear casual clothes to my grandma's visitation, I'd be highly offended that others at the visitation were judging me poorly because I didn't wear something more dressy. Who the heck do you think you are - Miss Manners? And even if you are, who cares?

Last year I attended visitation for a child who had committed suicide in a small rural school. The whole school and all the school community was there, in long lines through a very long awful day, all wearing whatever they had worn to school or work. I can't remember/didn't notice whatever the kids were wearing....probably aggravating even by "casual" standards....and many of the parents were wearing work clothes or whatever. But I sure noticed the regard those kids paid to their friend/acquaintance who had felt so very bad. I thought the kids were demonstrating their dawning realization that mental illness HURTS and that it can invisibly affect kids and families just like them. I am pleased to say that all the teachers, and every cop and shopkeeper and volunteer Little League coach were really working the lines in that room, trying to comfort all those kids. I hope the family felt somewhat comforted, though I know that the price they paid can't be compensated for by the community education. That family, and those kids, came up with a t-shirt scheme honoring Jimmy. My grandkids are still wearing those balloon t-shirts, remembering Jimmy when they have those ordinary adolescent angst-filled days after a difficult baseball practice or a failed math test. I wonder how that family feels when they see those shirts around town? I hope they feel that Jimmy made a difference, because he truly did.

I think this is one of those "pick your battles" moments.

Personally I think this is one of those Its because of who the OP is rather than the comment itself. If the poster said * I was at a Funeral and was pleased to see family members wearing jeans and sweats * I bet everyone would be disagreeing that casual,very casual like jeans and sweats are disrespectful to everyone involved. This is one of those can't win for losing moments.

I think the family was dressed appropriately.

Is there anywhere I think merits wearing clothing a step up from what I would wear to a convenience store? Yes. Some job interviews, some conferences, some speaking engagements, some awards banquets, some marketing events, some restaurants, some meetings....

Do I think casual wear means jeans and a sweatshirt? Yes, I think jeans and a sweatshirt are casual wear. I think some skirts, some dresses, some kakhi pants are casual wear. I think leggings with tunic tops are casual wear.

Do I own anything better? Yes. I have a few formal, floor length gowns that I have worn to formal events and my husband owns a tuxedo and accessories. I have suits suitable for formal interviews. I have nice slacks, sweaters, and blouses that I wear mostly to marketing events and events with my husband's clients. Most of the time I wear ratty shorts, ratty leggings or ratty jeans suitable for gardening, cleaning or playing with my dogs but I have a selection of clothes appropriate for every type of occasion I attend with my husband that might have anything at all to do with his business.

My kids, who are in their twenties, also have a selection of clothes to fit every occasion except they have no formal wear, as in no tuxedo and no formal floor-length gown. They have interview clothes for every degree of formality they are likely to encounter and clothes to attend any marketing or business networking event they choose, except for events that require formal wear.

When I die I hope my children wear whatever they like and jeans and sweatshirt would be just fine with me. If they are going to grieve, I hope they grieve in sartorial comfort. I think for personal occasions, like weddings and funerals, families should adhere to their own dress code of choice. So if the bride and groom are fine with shorts and flip flops then everyone else should be, too. At a funeral, if the family of the deceased is fine with wearing shorts and flip flops then everyone else should be, too.

This keeps getting sidetracked into what *other people* wear to a visitation.

My comments -- and those of the OP -- are only about what this particular family wore while receiving visitors as *representatives* of *this* deceased woman, who we are told was always *well groomed* -- and whose husband *wore a suit*. (He was evidently not too "grief stricken' or "uncomfortable" to wear one.)

My late mother would have been heartsick to think that I would not wear appropriate clothing to receive visitors coming to mourn her. Of course I was an emotional wreck, but I was present as a reflection of her upbringing, there to honor her.

If I die before my husband, I think he would wear a suit to my funeral and my visitation. I've never seen him wear anything else to one. But I am very sure that even if my kids wore shorts, t-shirts and flip flops he wouldn't care. My mother, who wears nice dresses to church and either dresses or nice slacks to visitations, wouldn't care if my kids came to my funeral in shorts and t-shirts, either. And she would be mad as heck if she heard anyone criticizing them for their attire.

Chisue- my comments have only been regarding *this* family and what *they* wore. I think it rude and uncalled for to judge them on it.

Boils down to a belief that one's own personal preferences should rule others.

I went to a funeral last year and the ex wife of the deceased was wearing a mini skirt that was so short that everyone held their breath waiting for a wardrobe malfunction when she kneeled down at the casket.

'Jmc..I'm no almighty anything, but there's a vast difference in dressing for a Funeral and dressing for lunch at the local diner.'

I don't wear clothes I seriously care about on the very very few occasions I visit the local diner because I always end up smelling like grease when I leave.

In the end, lets just say as long as you're wearing clothes, you're appropriately dressed. I would not wear capris or shorts. Or a bikini. That would be going a little bit too far. It's a visitation. So how about everyone just let this go. I'm sure the OP is feeling quite attacked enough. We all have opinions and we all have the right to voice them. But it's enough. Threads like this one are why I left the group for a few years. I thought this place had gotten better. Now I'm not sure anymore.

Debby, I see what you mean about remarks that some make that are rude or snide. Just like in real life, there are a couple here as well. It is not often and after a while you will know who's comments to avoid. My Grandmother used to say, "Just because someone throws the ball doesn't mean you have to catch it". :-)

At visitations that I've attended people generally dress more on the casual side, wearing jeans, khaki's, sneakers. Funerals are more formal.

OK. I'm done. Times and customs have evidently changed. "Anything Goes". I still don't buy the argument that it is 'too much trouble' for adults to dress in at least Casual Clothing (which is not jeans and sweats, and is not Black Tie either) for a solemn occasion. What occasions do warrant better clothing, if not this?

Early in President Obama's term (so not more than nine years ago), the Northwestern University women's lacrosse team won a championship and was invited to the White House. They posed for a formal photo, and there was an uproar. Although all the young women were nicely dressed, most of them wore flip-flops instead of shoes.

Now I'm thinking they had to be prompted about "appropriate clothing" to wear to the White House, but someone failed to cover "appropriate footwear". My point is that they apparently didn't 'just know', as I believe most college women would have known in previous years.

Or maybe they knew, but chose differently (not that I would) chisue

Practices change over time and always have. The world is more casual today in many respects, not just in dress standards. Arbitrary standards and conventions from the past don't linger as much as they used to.

How are jeans and sweaters not casual clothing?

"...was invited to the White House. They posed for a formal photo, and
there was an uproar. Although all the young women were nicely dressed,
most of them wore flip-flops instead of shoes.

Now I'm thinking they had to be prompted about "appropriate clothing"
to wear to the White House, but someone failed to cover "appropriate
footwear". My point is that they apparently didn't 'just know', as I
believe most college women would have known in previous years."

Yeah, I remember the days when we knew better. White gloves, panty hose and heels. Thank god those days are gone!

Yeah, I'm glad those days are gone too when I'd have to wear pantyhose , heels and maybe a hat to church. Don't own panty hose, don't wear heels and don't own a hat except baseball or ski hats. That said I hate to go to a nice restaurant and see a man in a muscle shirt and baseball cap eating dinner beside me. That also goes for seeing people in their PJs in public places. I am a very informal sporty type dresser and can't remember the last time I had a dress on. There are pictures of me shopping in the city when I was first married in a shirtwaist dress and heels. Really?

Come to think of it, it was hose with a garter belt (or girdle!), not panty hose back in the good old days.

elmer & others, but don't u think they should... times are changing, fact of life, but some things from the past are good and should be maintained. i know this is my HO, but its truly how i feel. my mom used to say when we were little " if your friend jumps off a bridge are u going to do it too??" just because somebody does something doesn't make it right!

i know this sounds preachy, but my gosh, can't we keep and have some standards? i would be embarrassed to show up inappropriately dressed somewhere, so i wouldn't do it. i feel its better to over dressed than under dressed. having self respect....

it about you, the person going the event and having/ showing respect for the occasion/person, its not about being snobby. its not about what people are going to remember. its not about, "who cares, the person is dead"...certain occasions call for a certain dress code...

Should past practices be maintained, sportsfanatic? Maybe that's better as an individual decision. If you decide to be dressed in a more fancy way for a funeral or visitation or whatever, great. That's your choice for you. Why would you expect others to have the same point of view as you do or be upset when indeed they don't?

Your perspective is that dressing in fancy clothes shows respect for the occasion/person. That's fine, it's your decision for you. What would you expect someone to do who doesn't agree with that?

Elmer, do you agree that jeans/sweats are appropriate for a Funeral?

I don't think anyone here is insisting on "fancy" clothes for an event like a visitation. However, I'm with those who believe that there are occasions where being nicely dressed, something more than jeans and sweatshirts, is a sign of dignity and respect. Then again the majority of visitations and funerals I have been to are religious at least to some extent. I would not wear sweats and sneakers for a visit to the Queen of England or a state dinner. Neither would I to such a solemn occasion.

I think Americans have gone too far in the extent of personal sloppiness. Are there no places left where dressing up shows respect for the dignity of the occasion and of others? To me that is sad. We are a nation who has taken the mantra "I will do exactly as a feel with no regard for others" to heart.

No one around here would wear a t-shirt to a funeral or visitation. Men wear a shirt with a collar at the very least. More likely a sports coat and slacks. A suit to a full blown funeral. Jeans would be all wrong and never sneakers. Dressing appropriately shows respect for the deceased, their family and yourself.

The appropriate thing to wear is kindness, love, sympathy for a family grieving. I only hope the judgement did not show on the OP face. If that showed it would be like that person was wearing the most inappropriate outfit in the room.

That said I love cloths I miss the old days of dressing to the nines as we use to say. When I have to attend a black tie event I am all in and cannot wait to get dressed. I do not like jeans they are not comfortable for me. But I have casual cloths that can take me to the store and a wake that is appropriate for me.

IMO Whatever anybody else wears is appropriate. I dress for me and do not know or care what someone else wears.

Er...jeans and sweats are not "Casual Clothing" any more "Casual Clothing" is "Black Tie". These are terms put on invitations, along with "Business Attire". Another term I see (in death notices in Hawaii) is "Aloha Wear" -- which is "Islander" for "Casual Clothing".

"Casual Clothing" is a step up from utilitarian clothing you'd wear to mow the lawn or change the oil in your car. Maybe we need a new category! Suggestions welcome.

mamapinky, I think neat and clean solid color jeans (not the ones with streaks, holes, or sandblasted patterns) in good repair are appropriate anywhere. Sweats, gym shorts, yoga pants that are clingy like tights, t-shirts, shorts, etc are great for exercising, work and casual lounging at home but not necessarily otherwise out in public. Collared shirts look best if ironed or of the permanent press type for those who prefer that, and not look like they were slept in.

I think a bigger clothing issue is that people, especially as they age, don't wear clothing that's appropriate for their age and body types. Why do fat women wear short dresses and skirts and tight pants and tops? Why do men wear t-shirts that don't cover their bellies or their butts?

Those are my preferences, I apply them to myself only.

I've seen "casual dress" on invitations. It means "not formal"--that is, not black tie. Casual dress for women can be a lot of things, from a sundress to slacks, even nice dark wash jeans worn with a jacket and heels. I'm in the upper Midwest and have never seen anyone at a visitation wearing anything but such "casual dress."

" just because somebody does something doesn't make it right!"

Exactly. Just because they dress up, doesn't make it right. Just because they dress down, doesn't make it right. And fashion and dress go through their own changes too.

There's so much important stuff going on in the world right now, maybe clothing one way or the other doesn't make as much of a difference as other issues, it certainly doesn't seem to me to require a lot of soul searching. Let people choose what they want to wear, and love them for being there.

Elmer..I just wondered because in another thread you said...

**I think the wearing of jeans or shorts to a funeral is very inappropriate.Tacky or worse**

I will point no more out but there are others in different threads that believe similar to what Elmer says.

Yet on this thread its a complete turnaround.

In the OP's post she said nothing about if she gave the innappropriately dressed people any *looks* or said anything to them..I'm of the opinion she probably didn't as it would be inoppropriate. I also didn't see where she dictated what anyone should wear as far as black tie, party dress, or slacks and blouse..only that jeans and sweats were inappropriate.

I can't believe how many think its OK to wear jeans/sweats to a funeral. And how many don't seem to understand the difference in what casual means for different functions. This goes back to what I was thinking, and after reading some other threads I'm convinced its not the subject of discussion...its the subject herself. But understand I havent been here long so I can only base my opinions about this just as it was posted with nothing to color my opinion on the original statement. I actually feel sad. I know some of you probably many will now find me unworthy at the KT because I feel differently and I voiced it.. but...so did you.

please, when you come to my funeral or whatever is done then, wear anything you wish or even wear nothing at all because I won't be wearing anything either. I want to leave this world the same way I came in... with nothing but hope and free will and sans judgement. My friend died recently, and her family didn't get all dressed up to see her off, nor did I. The only glitter worn were our tears.

Did they wear jeans and sweats? Or slacks and blouse?

I did? I'll take your word for it. I'll stick with the comment on shorts, jeans, hmm. Clean black jeans, as an example, can look better than some other kinds of pants but I'll accept your recollection. It's the risk taken when responding quickly as I typically do and I never refer back to prior threads to see what I've said. I do reread posts after completing them, to clean up typos.

I wore khaki Dockers and a light blue short sleeve shirt, no tie, to my mother's funeral. Does that count? (My father was pissed at me and I told him I didn't care what he thought. My immediate family was okay with it and dressed similarly. It was a hot summer day.).

Wow, mamapinky0, you need to find a hobby or something, rather than spending time digging up 2 year old posts. Only to prove a point.

As I said, I was happy to take your word for it.

I was consistent with the Dockers and shirt comment, though. haha. For my mother's funeral, I didn't need to change in a bathroom or in my car.

The only point that proved is that peope change. ....unless you are too rigid. Why are u so stuck on jeans and sweats?

The distinction between "visitation' and 'funeral' seems to be missing here.

The saddest statement in this overloaded thread is having said anything on the day of a funeral "just to aggravate" someone else.

Lisa, without knowledge of and taken out of the context of circumstances before and after that illuminate the incident, I can see how it may seem sad to you. That's not how it was to me. It was a detailed and nuanced situation that then, as now, I'm completely okay with (from my perspective) that needn't be shared with a universe of strangers. So that it's not quoted back to me in a few years, I removed that part of my earlier comment, added some other words, and prob should have left it out completely. It is what I said, your quote is accurate and I understand your response.

After reading and rereading this thread, one thing stands
out to me. Throughout all the comments, whether positive or negative, the OP
has remained composed. Not once has she responded in an unsuitable manner. To
me that speaks volumes to her character. She appears to be a strong woman with
class. I like that a lot!

Elmer, I'm Sorry, I hope you accept my appology. I used you as a means to make a point. I could have used someone else as there are similar posts of others here. I think I chose you because you always recieve so much negitive responses at the KT yet you remain strong, your not a wimp. I knew you could handle it. I let this thread get under my skin and allowed myself to become over reactive. I acted without thinking. I'm sorry Elmer.

I do not own a skirt, dress, or panty hose. When I go to a funeral (or a visitation), I will wear a black top, black jeans or slacks, shoes, etc. That is what I am wearing to my mom's funeral next month. She would agree that it isn't about dresses, it's about how we treated her when she was with us.

"Appropriate" is subjective. Period. I think it's "inappropriate" to impose one's standards onto another in the area of attire.

Personally, what *I* find offensive is imposing peoples' own standards onto the decedent. For instance, my great uncle was never seen (by me or by anyone I've asked) wearing a suit and tie and to put him in a box in a suit and tie was totally "inappropriate" IMO. Done because an aunt and uncle were imposing their standards on my great-uncle's corpse. He was a bachelor all his life, had no kids, lived on the farm all his life and to not see him in his overalls and to top it off, putting his reading glasses on him (glasses which he never wanted to be seen wearing) was an insult to him and an embarrassment to everyone who respected his wishes, desires and standards.

To the ones who require tux and formal gowns for these events I have to wonder if you also "dress up" in that manner when you get on an airplane? I remember the time when it was considered "inappropriate" to not be in your Sunday-go-to-meetin' duds when flying. Women had to be marinated in perfume and choke everyone out of the car, plane, train, bus or station. I'm glad that those days are gone. And yes, that's MY opinion.

LOL...I must have missed something..who said a tux or formal gown should be worn to a funeral..I can't find that anywhere.

cynic -- No one here has suggested Formal Wear, and we aren't talking about costuming the deceased. We aren't talking about what 'other people' wear to a visitation, only what the family wears -- as representatives of the deceased whose life is being honored.

Some here think jeans and sweats constitute Casual Wear. Some think they are not Casual Wear and as such are too utilitarian for the family of the deceased to wear when receiving visitors.

IMO, if this isn't an occasion worthy of Casual Wear or Business Attire, what IS?

mamapinky, no apology is needed. Nothing you said offended or bothered me. Thanks for being thoughtful all the same.

Elmer ThankYou. ..but...I offended myself. Sometimes I get too bothered by things and take it to far.

Mamapinky, it's fine to get over involved sometimes!

So, it looks like we all have to agree to disagree on what to wear, what not to wear, what you should wear/ not wear, and what the family should wear/not wear!

I have checked several sites, including Emily Post and Wikipedia and Casual Wear, in every single instance, is described with jeans.

I'm sorry, but you can't just choose a new meaning for the phrase when the rest of the world already has an accepted definition of what Casual Wear means.

Perhaps you mean Business Casual which is nicer than Casual Wear?

Emily Post

Wikipedia

Texas_Gem -- Thank you. It's *changed* (while I wasn't looking). Is there anything about footwear? Does it include slippahs (flip-flops)?

I see nothing wrong with that they wore, why are so many so horribly judgmental and more concern about what others wear then what they are attending?

I used to hear this bible study group tear others apart, did you see so and so and what wearing on sunday?

Pay attention to why you are at church and not what others are wearing.

We like comfortable clothes these days and I wear Jeans and t-shirt and sweatshirt in winter when really cold.

Also of all ages wear runners I have noticed too and why not be comfortable.

I think whatever is up to individual and its not up to us to say ugh or did you know what they were wearing.

I agree if they wore those seeing them alive, what is the problem with them going like that to funeral.

Also makes you feel more comfortable wearing what you feel comfortable in.

It bothered me when parents would say you must dress up and I am like to the stores as they would be downtown and department stores, yes, you do, thought it was crazy and other places too.

Made us not want to go with them due to that dressing up.

Don't judge, if they are clean and tidy, then let them be anyway they want to be.

Very interesting topic. It's almost like politics or religion.

Kathleen, we can put you in the "I wear sweats and jeans to wakes and funeral" team.

The thing I find interesting in this thread is that some of the posters are actually doing themselves what they perceive the poster to be doing. Being judgmental.

I just want to point how that what to wear or not was an OPINION of the poster. If you feel otherwise than the correct response is, "I disagree and I wear XYZ, as do my circle of family and friends."

In other words, stick to the topic at hand, not the person writing it. or why she/he wrote it.

Maybe people don't know what is appropriate, maybe they have foot problems & have to wear lace-up shoes, maybe they're on blood thinners and they need to wear sweats, maybe they have been at home with children for so long that they no longer have dresses or suits and they can't afford a new outfit for a funeral or they didn't have time to obtain one because the death was sudden. My aunt Lillie had a big family. Not all of them had a great deal of money. Since Aunt Lillie lived to the age of 93, and since she had had only daughters, and since their children (her grandchildren) were too old to be carrying a casket, Aunt Lillie asked that her great nephews be pallbearers. She asked that they wear white shirts and jeans. Their faces were clean, their hair was clean & brushed, their white shirts and jeans were starched, and they looked very nice. It was lovely.

I'm on blood thinners and I'm not restricted to wearing any certain clothing..what would the reason be for that?

Maybe they are colder than normal. But you would think a nice heavy sweater would achieve the same purpose.

I can certainly understand when requests are put in ahead of time, so yes honor those. But I don't think that was the case in the OP's scenario.

I remember when I first started blood thinners 9 years ago after my second stroke I was always cold..the doctor said its not from the blood thinners. That blood thinners don't actually thin the blood they prevent it from clotting...I didn't believe him and still don't about the coldness. Lol

Sorry I didn't make that clear. I was talking about the need for warmth. Blood thinners low thyroid slow metabolism old age, whatever makes people cold.

There are plenty of warm clothing on the market. Being cold for whatever reason is no excuse to dress down at a funeral. My local elementary school allows all the Teachers to * Dress Down* into jeans the last Friday of each month if they make a 1$ donation to the food bank. The other days of the week its slacks and blouse or casual dress. I think a Teachers attire is considered business casual. I know a few of the teachers outside of school, at the end of the day they can't wait to get home and change into jeans/sweats their dress down clothes. I still feel that dress down clothes are not appropriate in a Funeral Home. Just like business casual isn't appropriate at a formal function or a day gardening.

Boils down to a belief that one's own personal preferences should rule others.

I don't agree, although I will say that seems to have become an almost reflexive response in our nation to an opposing opinion.

But with this one (and speaking as a former hippie chick who scandalously wore jeans to church in 1970) I think it boils down to the customs and traditions that have, in the past, bound societies together, by showing respect for the occasion and each other. Really, when it comes down to it, why have a funeral at all? If you don't feel there is a religious imperative, why waste the money and time, much less be clean and dressed more than schlepping -to- the- grocery -store casually? What purpose does it serve?

"the essential or characteristic customs and conventions of a community"

Don't read snobbery into what I am saying. In my aunt & uncle's small farming community 40 years ago, to come to the visitation and funeral in spotless clean and pressed shirt and jeans would have been understood as one's best, and that was fine. I myself generally never wear a skirt, dress or heels, but I will wear dress slacks, and a professional looking top and jacket. If my foot is acting up, I have a pair of all black athletic shoes that my orthotics fit into that aren't obvious.

My feeling is that many customs and traditions have eroded in many instances to the point of being non-existent. When we travel or read about other nations and cultures, we usually think of their custom and traditions as charming, worthy of respect, of value and deserving of preservation, (well sure I can name some that are totally not, let's not go there) and yet, here in America, we seem to take the opposite view.

rae, I think you started with the end that you wanted and then worked backwards.

-we are a heterogeneous society, you seem to assume otherwise. The US doesn't have common relgious customs and traditions that serve as glue. Maybe your area is more homogeneous than mine is.

-for many, many people, neither weddings nor funerals are religious occasions. You seem to assume otherwise.

-most people don't live in small farming communities (about which many whose families came from such roots would shout Hurray!). Whatever might have been customary in what were likely very racially and ethnically non-diverse places decades ago aren't instructive for the world most of us live in today.

Customs and traditions have changed. They always do over time. What's more common in such matters today is neither better nor worse, just different, in my opinion. But I do prefer the more casual and more flexible attitudes that many have about such things, lockstep adherence to the past can be stifling.

PS - I knew plenty of "hippie chicks" back in the day, I'm not sure any of those I knew ever went to church at all.

But even in our heterogenous overall society, there are enclaves and local communities and neighborhoods that have been held together by commonalities. Certainly more so away from large metropolitan areas, but even Los Angeles has ethnic enclaves where familiar traditions are observed.

My point about the religious aspect is, what is the purpose of the rite in its essence? That should dictate how people treat it, as a casual occasion or not. What are we there for? Had nothing to do with assuming that they are only religious in nature.

And the point about the farm community, is that the dress that was acceptable there in another neighborhood or community might not be because it was less formal -- but it was, in that community, part of the accepted mores. It was their way of showing respect for each other. This would have been true no matter the race, BTW. (Did I hear a sniff of the nose at "small farming community"?)

PS you must have missed the Jesus people movement

what someone else wears is no of my business

raee, the urban/suburban areas I've lived in have many "enclaves" or neighborhoods of people of similar ethnic or national origin. These neighborhoods and "communities" melt away as the years pass and their former inhabitants and progeny assimilate into the general population. Old traditions and mores aren't carried on. Religious practices from the old country similarly seem to lose significance. Away from urban areas, places in California tend to have mostly segregated Caucasian populations and Hispanic populations, with an odd exception here and there I know of including groups of Armenians and Assyrians in the Central Valley. Maybe your experience is different.

The purpose of a rite? Of course, weddings are a marriage and funerals are for a burial or commemoration of life. Neither necessarily implies a religious element to it nor formality and in my experience that is becoming the case more than not. All of that is the choice of those who organize it. Seriously religious events of these kinds are becoming much less common as so many people discontinue their own religious practices and/or wish to be respectful to the differing beliefs and non-beliefs of family, friends and other attendees. I'm sure practices differ from place to place.

Our views seem different and so too may be our experiences.

The Jesus people and other evangelicals got little mainstream traction where I was at the time (LA proper). It was different in surrounding areas, like Orange County.