New plans! Almost done, I hope...seeking comments

williamsemDecember 27, 2012

Got the new layout pics from our cabinet guy! This is pretty much the last plan I posted (linked below for reference), but merged with reality and with the utility and pantry storage switched.

We are finalizing things probably in about 2 weeks. These cabinets need to get ordered! Any additional comments or suggestions? Things I missed? I'm a little over budget, but I don't really see anything I can cut either.

-had to lose 3 inches in the sink run to accommodate a side panel on the fridge, and spacers for the pull out and utility cabinet door. The drawers next to the range were decreased from 30 to 27 inches for this. They should still be big enough for pots and pans, they are mostly shoved in an 18 inch cabinet at the moment...
-had to lose 3 inches on the short wall too! Need a side panel on the oven stack to hide the 6 inch gap at the back (24 inch cabinet pulled out to match the 30 inch deep counter). Also needed a spacer next to the oven cabinet. This also allows the counter to end at the end of the wall, and the hardware should not stick out ino the aisle. The drawers on the end are 21 inches deep (by 30 long) to do this, hopefully still deep enough for dishes! They are currently in a 12 inch deep upper, so should be ok.
-upper to the left of the sink is 21 inches instead of 24, allows better spacing with the opposite cabinet relative to the window as well as having those 3 doors be the same size.
-double angle cabinet at the end of the oven run, allows recessed space above the drawers there

I still need to decide exactly what will be below the Advantium. Probably more drawers, but might need room for bulky items.

Thanks for reading this far! Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous layout discussion

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"merged with reality", lol. Doesn't that stink when the reality of inches makes itself known. I need 3 inches more on a peninsula and no matter how I wish for it, well, doesn't seem to be materializing!

Your layout looks good, though! My only thought has to do with the two different width of the uppers flanking the stove: I think I understand what you're doing re: your comment on the same size doors as the 42" cab. However, it looks off to me. The two cabs flanking the hood/stove should be the same, I think. Doesn't look like a good way to make the left side 12" cab any wider, so I'll suggest having the other one be a 12" as well, and also suggest thinking about putting some glass in the doors of the 42", to emphasize the 'separateness' of that cabinet. Just my 2 cents.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 10:02PM
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What are the chances of using a 30" sink base and get the extra 3" back for more useful storage?

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 11:05PM
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What are you going to put in the utility cabinet? 24 inches is a lot for that type of cab next to a fridge, especially when you have a pantry. Can you steal some inches from that cabinet and put it into counter and cabinet space?

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 11:12PM
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It looks like everything will be at easy reach when working in your kitchen. One thing you lack is counter space for prepping, placing prepared dishes, baking, etc. Could you remove your utility cabinet and move your fridge next to your pantry? That extra 2' of counter would be nice to have next to the fridge. In my kitchen reno I lost a broom closet but then ended up converting another closet in the home to a broom closet that also fit my vacuum cleaner. See if your "utility stuff" can go elsewhere.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 11:17PM
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I would also really consider getting rid of the 24" utility cabinet. What did you plan on keeping there?

As of the sink base, did you already pick out a sink? How much actual useable space you will have under the sink is questionable. I would consider using a 30" base.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 7:37AM
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Are you not willing to give up the utility cabinet entirely? As long as you have a french door fridge planned,I would reduce the utility dimension to 18 inches[or 15 ]. The fridge will slide over to the right into the saved inches and you grow counter to the left of fridge-probably wise.The base cabinet will be larger to the left of fridge and you can do two 24 in upper cabs. For your size kitchen I'd avoid the three 21 in upper doors that you currently show [21 and 42 in cabs]. Alternatively,since you would be growing upper cab space ,make the 21 inch to the right of hood now 18inch and to the right of window do a 15 inch and 30 inch cabinet, giving you matching door sizes there. That tweak will clear some inches around the window frame which enchances things also.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 8:26AM
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I also think you can get by with a smaller sink base, but you don't have a separate trash pull-out, so that may make it tight for your recycleables and trash. I have a 28 in. sink base with a Silgranite one-bowl 22 in. sink. It's 8 in. deep, and the depth helps compensate for the width. Everything fits for washing, but you can't let things pile up. Kohler also has the Riverby.

Since your cabs will be custom, I would consider making the 3 drawer pots and pans base into a 4 drawer base. I have drawer boxes of 3, 4 1/4, 4 1/4, and 6 on both sides of my range. The drawer bases are 28 in. Really, everything fits. I don't like to stack pots, so I store the 1 and 2 qt. pans with the lid flipped over in the third drawer. The bottom drawer has 3 and 4 qt. pans. The largest pan is a 6 qt. stockpot.

I would also keep dishes in the wall cab over the DW. Stealing inches from the utility cab would make your 42 in. cab into a 3 door cab, which will look more in balance with the other wall cabs. That cab is a great spot for glass doors, as deedles pointed out. Perhaps even glass the cab next to the Advantium. You want to minimize the wood. I have natural cherry in a small U-shaped kitchen, and with cabs to the ceiling, it's a lot of wood.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 9:06AM
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Hmm, now that I have decided to put the pantry in the current utility closet, I may be able to reduce the utility cabinet size. I will have to clear it out this afternoon and figure out exactly what needs to stay in there.

I have very limited storage options. However, if I can manage to squeeze that stuff in somewhere else, what could I use that narrow space I the kitchen for? Moving the fridge all the way down that run is not an option, the pantry wall is a few inches deeper so the door could not open all the way, plus it's too many doors in that little space. I would need to give it probably 15-18 inches.

As for the sink, I have tried my best to use a big single sink. DH has to have a double bowl. Even showing him sinks with accessories that include hanging baskets, hanging basins, etc he just won't budge. Plus I want to make sure I can fit the recyclables under there. We will get a Silgranite 1+3/4 with low divide. He does most of the cooking and cleaning in the kitchen, so I have to keep him happy!

May_flowers, these are semi-custom, so I can either have 3 drawers with 2 equal large ones on bottom, or 4 drawers with 3 equal shallow drawers then 1 deeper drawer. Your drawers sound awesome though! I have our dishes above the DW now, and it's hard to reach. I am actually pretty excited about dishes in a drawer!

Herbflavor, I guess those uppers depend on what happens with the utility cabinet. They certainly are vexing! I do have room to make the 21 inch cabinet a 24 inch cabinet, making all 12 inch doors by the range. That helps that side look better, but then the balance of space around the window doesn't work as well. I hesitate to reduce that cabinet size as it is right above our prime prep space. Definitely an area for some serious thought once the utility stuff is sorted out.

I am open to considering frosted glass uppers if it works with the design, will have to see how things work out.

All the suggestions are much appreciated, thank you! Any and all additional comments are welcome.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 10:35AM
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Williamsem: I remember in an earlier thread that you mentioned too many doors by the fridge. You have a door straight out to the garage, right? And then opposite the pantry door are doors to a pwdr room and basement stairs also, correct? Is it that you think it looks like too many doors or that the fridge doors being open may impede traffic flow through the various doors?

If it's true that you have a french door fridge going in, and you keep it, say, 6" or 9" (thinking utility pullout) away from the bumped out pantry wall.... I just don't see how that would impede the fridge door opening plenty wide enough. I have a french door now with no impediments and I can't remember ever putting the doors into their full wide open position, other than when pulling out the trays for cleaning. As far as the too many doors, I'll comment as if it's the traffic flow that you are worried about: How long does one really spend in front of the fridge? (teenagers excepted) Honestly, you grab some stuff and shut the door. Unless you have Grand Central Station in your house, is that really worth the constant, daily, hourly loss of valuable counter and cab area? I'd trade a few "excuse me's" for another foot or more of counter space, just my opinion. Also like the idea of glass by the advantium, too.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 11:04AM
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You have done a great job of meeting your space restrictions and DH's desires. A couple of questions, though.

Why the wide space at the top between ceiling and cabinets? Couldn't you increase cabinet height by a couple of inches or more (I would take them almost to the ceiling. Looks like you could gain 3 or 4 inches!) and still have enough room for narrow trim? As much as you need storage space, the cubic feet you could gain if you did this throughout would be valuable.

An aside: I just added two extra shelves to the wall cab that holds our dishes. I gained almost 1/3 more storage since there was so much wasted space at the top of the original shelves. Be sure you can add additional shelves in both wall and base cabinets if you want to.

Also, the space above the sink window could hold a cabinet that might store stock pots and such--large items seldom needed-- if you use cabinets that run almost to the ceiling. I would do this in a minute.

When storage space is tight, as it is in my kitchen, I simply HATE seeing unused space wasted.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 11:19AM
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As for a smaller utility closet--are you changing that 12 in. cabinet to the left of the stove into a wider cab? I really don't like how there's not much separation between your stove and the dining area. So you'd lose the tray pull-out to a drawer base. What I did was put in a cabinet over my pantry pull-out for trays, cutting boards, cookie sheets, etc. It has one shelf. Brooklyngalley with the oh-so-nice tiny kitchen did the same.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 11:24AM
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I didnt' read through all the responses as all the kids are on the way over with the grandkids. But quickly.... could you reduce the utility to a 9" pull-out, scoot the frig down increasing useable counter, flip the sink and DW, resulting in greatly increasing prep space between sink and range?

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 11:53AM
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Again, thanks so much for the suggestions. I have spent the past few days playing with my tape measure and boxes, mocking things up.

What I am trying to express, poorly I admit, about the fridge all the way down to the pantry is it crowds the door to the garage at the end of the hall. If pushed down right up against the pantry, the body of the fridge would be about 2 inches from the edge of the garage door. Since that's the entrance we use most, and since the current fridge sticks out so far, it feels crowded and narrow when entering. I can shave that utility space down to 13 inches (1 inch spacer plus 12 inch pull out), but that's the absolute smallest I think would be comfortable. I would love all that space if I didn't need that breathing room, it was soooo tempting when I saw the Room Planner sketch, but I just can't imagine having the fridge literally in my face every time I came in!

But...moving to a 12 inch pull out gives me fantastic 30 inch drawers next to the DW! I would probably put the dishes and silverware there instead of on the short run, and use those 21 inch deep drawers on the short run as a 4 stack and put gadgets and wraps in them instead.

So this is a quick look in Room Planner of that change. I am still torn about what to do with the uppers. This model posted is 21 inches next to the range, then 21+30 above the DW side with a 1 inch spacer that I assume I will need next to the fridge end panel. With the sink offset about 3 inches from the window it's hard, but since it will be a 70/30 double bowl the faucet will be just about centered on the window.

Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated. I want to send the changes to the cabinet place soon, but am trying to avoid new changes every other day! Almost there....

    Bookmark   December 31, 2012 at 8:57PM
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I think I'd do solid wood doors on the dbl door cabinet next to kinda continues the staggered effect that begins over to the left of range.... I'd do a large single bowl you have to choose the moldings/toekicks/hardware/glass for doors/counters/etc yet? curious what your style will be....this might be a good kitchen application for the furniture toekicks...a slide in range would be really good in your kitchen because you could run your backsplash continuously across that wall....good style yield quotient if you could.....I'd think about it,maybe even priority trumping the glass doors on wall cabs, the more I just look at the wall--[do you have to pick and choose where to be spendy?].It's a kitchen where you'll want to sit at the table quite a bit between cooking stages/prep-so a great backsplash and moldings on cabs will pay off-details!

    Bookmark   December 31, 2012 at 9:40PM
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Could the baking wall become the refrigerator wall?

    Bookmark   December 31, 2012 at 10:36PM
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Thanks, herbflavor! The range we have is a 1 year old induction. The old one died, and I didn't want to try to make a slide in work with the old stuff (nothing in this house is standard). If I could have waited, I would have done a slide in or cooktop instead. Love the induction though, so no regrets.

Not sure about finishes yet. In Room Planner all the uppers show up as glass door, not sure if we will have any. Maybe just by the sink? Once I get the floor plan set, all that stuff is next! The house is very bland, so nothing too fancy. It will be a medium to dark stain with Rocky Mountain granite (already made a deposit). Still have to pick the cork floor color too, glue down tiles from Globus not sure what color.
DH has to have a double sink. I tried my best, but since he does most of the cooking and dishes, I don't want to rock the boat! We are getting a silgranite performa 1+3/4 medium bowl low divide, not sure what color. I will have a hood, so even with the range there will be a good run of backsplash. Once I decide on cabinet color I can start looking for that.

Thanks for being so excited about the kitchen! I love all the great people here. DH just glazed over when I try to talk through things.

May_flowers, the fridge is currently on the end of the short wall. It really closes off the room, and makes it hard to have a table due to clearance for the doors. It probably bothers me more than it should, but I love the openess of having that corner free!

    Bookmark   December 31, 2012 at 11:07PM
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Williamsem: Do the different cab sizes flanking the range hood bother you? I mentioned it previously, but if it doesn't bother you then I'll drop it.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2013 at 4:00AM
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what is the dishwasher used for if he washes dishes?

    Bookmark   January 1, 2013 at 6:19AM
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Wiliamsem-I am just now reading through. Since you're pulling your oven forward 6", have you thought about adding a tiled fire extinguisher niche like we did? DH built a box and we used our 12x12 CT sample for the base, and then tiled the side and back.

You will love the 30" countertops. The 30" wide drawer stack will be terrific, too. Is it the software you are using which is making the gap between the tops of the cabinets and the ceiling? I think you're getting close, good luck!

This post was edited by oldbat2be on Tue, Jan 1, 13 at 9:00

    Bookmark   January 1, 2013 at 8:41AM
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Williamsen - you are getting close - so exciting! I appreciated your comments during my reno.

I would do drawers under the advantium - I used one larger drawer to hold my bread machine, food processor, etc. I didn't have room for more as I have an oven below the advantium. What is the height of your advantium?
Good to plan for the trays for the advantium - although some recommend not putting under as when the oven is open, it is hard to switch - ours are above the oven - a bit of a stretch but I am tall enough to reach.

I am also bugged by the little cab to the left of the cooktop - our city code required an 18 inch landing on either side of the cooktop - might want to check your codes. I didn't give DH an option on the sink - he is getting used to it... I wish I had done a big copper farmhouse but not really in budget anyway. But when you go for the sink - request a positive reveal - the GW is very split on this but the negative reveal makes the sink just a bit smaller...

Old Bat - wish we had thought of your nook - but we do have our FE in our pantry just inside the pocket door. It is a larger size unit but I might just put one in the drawer next to the cooktop.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2013 at 9:00AM
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Have you played around with starting your cabinet run on the window wall with a 12 in. broom closet or pull-out pantry and the refrigerator? That would get your full-depth fridge out of your tight entry. The range would go to the right of the window, but a cooktop would be better since you wouldn't be opening an oven door into the pathway. You'd gain drawer space under the cooktop. You could add a wall oven to the Advantium wall--at least I'm assuming you can, but I don't have wall ovens, and I don't do kitchen remodels for a living. :)

    Bookmark   January 1, 2013 at 10:34AM
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Deedles, the uneven cabinets is not my favorite, but short of putting the range in the hall (DH is against this) or removing all the ducting to move the sink (pipe access blocked by ducting) it is the best I can do. Not that big a sacrifice considering the rest is working out pretty well. Function is definitely my priority over form in this small space!

Oldbat2be, I love your kitchen! It's a great use of space, but I'm short and clumsy so I fear I would stretch over the 30 inch counter and accidentally knock the extinguisher back into the cubby! I think the small double angle corner upper will house our extinguisher. It's even on the way to the exit as recommended! I'll have to get a hanging tag to identify the location, but after that thread a while back it was definitely in my mind!

A2gemini, I'm excited too! We discussed the 12 inches to the left of the range, debating between 9 and 12. The cabinet company actually has been doing full kitchen remodels in our area for 40 years (specialize in kitchens). I hope they would have advised me about any code restrictions there, but I will ask! After reading here the past several months I'd definitely rather check now!

I think drawers under the Advantium will work well. It is 19 inches tall if I remember right, so plenty of space above for unruly large items!

May_flowers, I did sketch that up at one point. It actually worked pretty well, but didnt get the fridge out of the eating area so clearance was still an issue, and DH didn't want the range in the walkway, which I can understand.

Looks like things are closing in. Thanks so much for pushing me to consider things from all angles, I really appreciate the suggestions. Any additional comments are welcome!

    Bookmark   January 1, 2013 at 5:56PM
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At some point, you just have to "do it" or you will be cogitating forever. Will everything be perfect - nope - but you will love it anyway.
Happy New Year!

    Bookmark   January 1, 2013 at 8:56PM
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Boy, A2genimi, you hit the nail with that one!

I just sent the changes to my cabinet guy and asked to meet to place the order in the next 2-3 weeks. I sent a bunch of questions and also decided we can make the final decision on the uppers around the sink when we meet based on his recommendation. I don't really need anything back from him before we meet to order, so I guess I can move on to fun stuff like colors now!

    Bookmark   January 2, 2013 at 12:18AM
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