Kitchen Floor Plan -- Advice Please

RChicagoDecember 20, 2013

So, I shared this kitchen plan toward the end of an earlier thread and I'm concerned it got lost. Great tips earlier, and I'm hoping to discern whether this design is workable or I need to get back to the drawing board (literally!).

I have a rather tough space to work with, so the collective wisdom of Gardenweb would be GREATLY appreciated.

We'd like a kitchen that will be the heart of the home, where family can gather, and where two people can regularly cook simultaneously. We also have pot luck parties where friends will want to prepare/cook their dishes in our kitchen. Our aesthetic is clean, warm, and modern, with lots of wood and no ornamentation. We're thinking wood slab cabinets with soapstone counters. We won't have another dining space, so the dining area needs to be big enough so that we can add a few leaves for a larger table.

There are several design challenges in the existing space, including:
> The kitchen is only 13'4" wide;
> A sun porch with doors that can't be moved much (the existing opening is 6', but we can replace it with something smaller);
> The existing exterior window is 6' wide, but only about 19" from the floor, so cabinets can't go in front of that window; and
> Sub-8' ceilings (94.5").

I'm concerned that with this narrow space, the room will feel closed in if we put cabinetry on both long walls. With this design, the left wall is entirely open except for windows and a sliding glass door. There are wide aisles, and based on advice in the prior thread, I've shrunken the island (is this better, hollysprings?). This kitchen has an island; but for most uses, it's an L-shaped kitchen as you'd rarely have to go to the left side of the island for cooking or prepping.

I've tried to not clutter the floor plan with too much detail, but please let me know if you have any questions. And, again, a BIG THANK YOU for all the great input.

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nightowlrn

Curious what you plan to pass thru over a cooktop. Sounds a bit dangerous. And, maybe it is just me, but I would not want to be butt to butt with the person at one sink while I was at the other. And, no matter which way they go, someone coming or going from the outside to the family room or frig is going to have to walk thru a major prep area. Maybe swap the prep sink and trash and the frig and wall ovens?

This plan would not work for me. Perhaps swap the kitchen and the table area? Maybe I am alone in my opinion. Good luck with your design.

I am a huge island fan, but I wonder if a peninsula U shape will work better given your constraints.

This post was edited by nightowlrn on Fri, Dec 20, 13 at 17:58

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 5:53PM
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GauchoGordo1993

I think the slider in the middle of the kitchen is what what makes this space so difficult. And I figure you don't want the powder room visible from the kitchen, so that's another big constraint.

Anyhow, it seems to me that you're on the right track, but the cooktop placement seems awkward to me. What if you swapped the fridge & cooktop? Or could you put the Fridge against the exterior wall, near the fireplace and put the cooktop where the pantry is?

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 5:56PM
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GauchoGordo1993

Could you move the slider towards the fireplace?

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 6:15PM
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sjhockeyfan325

One suggestion - there's no reason to break up the island by putting the prep sink in the middle. You already have a sink directly across. Instead, consdier moving the prep sink to the end of the island nearest the refrigerator and cooktop, where it's actually needed.

I also would swap the refrigerator and cooktop, but obviously that would mean building a full-height wall there. I would actually consider swapping the main sink and the cooktop, in which case I'd move the prep sink to the other end of the island, but I just noticed you don't have anyplace near the peninsula to store dishes and glasses.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 6:19PM
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nightowlrn

This kitchen look similar to what you are trying to do. http://www.houzz.com/photos/2238377/The-Heglar-s-Kitchen-traditional-kitchen-atlanta

Here is a link that might be useful: narrow kitchen with an island idea

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 6:20PM
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nightowlrn

And another

Here is a link that might be useful: narrow kitchen idea

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 6:25PM
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RChicago

Thanks so much for the comments. Really good points.

nightowlrn --
> Not really passing anything over the cooktop -- just thought it might open the space to have an opening between the kitchen and the family room. Toying with the idea.
> I see what you're saying about the two sinks. I put the prep sink in the island so that it looks out toward the sun porch, so you'd be able to look outside instead of at a wall. I see that if I swap with the trash/recycling, as you've suggested, I can still look outside but not tap tushies with my hubby at the other sink (what's wrong with that?). Plus, it moves the prep area closer to the range. I'm not sure I need two sinks, but I'd like to look toward the outside, while keeping my drying rack away from the middle of my kitchen island.
> I'm hoping that with the hallway adjacent to the kitchen, as well as the path to the left of the island, the cooking/prep area wouldn't be a big walkway. Plus, with 48", wouldn't it be ok for folks to occasionally walk through?
> I'm really intrigued by the idea of switching the ovens and the fridge. The groceries will be arriving from the foyer, so that would make putting them away easier. But I thought it'd be good to have the fridge closer to the family room for the kids to grab drinks and snacks.
> I hear you about swapping the dining and kitchen areas. I just haven't seen or come up with a design yet that seems to work!

GauchoGordo1993 --
> Really like your idea of swapping the cooktop and the fridge. Where the cooktop is, I could put the fridge and add more pantry storage between the fridge and the exterior wall. Also, I wouldn't have to go with a counter depth fridge there, if I didn't want to. Like it!
> If I put the fridge on the exterior wall, I think it'd be too far away from the sink. And I don't think I'd want the cooktop where the pantry is drawn, as you'd be almost cooking in a doorway. Can't be the safest place.

Lots to ponder. Huge thank you.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 6:36PM
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RChicago

I'll take a good look at those kitchens, thanks.

We could move the slider, sure. Not cheap, but not a huge deal.

This revision below is based on your input. Is it better? I'm worried that now the prep sink and the refrigerator don't work together -- there isn't enough space on the bottom of the island for fridge loading and unloading. Am I wrong?

THANKS!

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 7:07PM
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nightowlrn

A lot to ponder. As it is now, the path of least resistance is going to take people behind the hot cooktop and between people washing and prepping. Are you totally adverse to options that don't include an island? And, those at the kitchen table who need more milk, the forgotten butter, the salad dressing, etc, will have to walk quite a distance. It sure seems like a lot of wasted space in kitchen that needs it between the family room wall and the slider.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 7:30PM
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GauchoGordo1993

Here's something different that you could do if you moved the slider.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 7:51PM
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sena01

One with foyer entry moved across slider.

With a 30"x 8.5' island and 15" deep cabs (plate/glass and food storage), aisles can be 41-42". There can be additional storage on the foyer side and next to DO.. MW on the island across the fridge, trash at the other end facing long windows.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 8:56PM
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RChicago

Apologies for the weekend delay -- with a six month old baby at home, I don't have much time to play with kitchen designs over the weekend!

GauchoGordo1993 - Very intriguing design. Thank you. I can't move the slider quite that far down, but I can move it some and narrow the opening. What I'm unsure of is having the island so open to the foyer and front door. I have to think about whether we need a wall to separate the spaces.

sena01 - Really, really digging the idea of making most of the lower wall 15" deep. Great idea. 15" cabinets would be super-useful, and the aisles can be bigger. Big thank you.

Question for sena01 -- any way we can put the main sink to the right of the fridge so that the sink looks out the window (and perhaps only have one 36" sink)? We hardly ever stand at the stove, and we spend tons of time at the sink. (Ever trimmed and seeded a half bushel of jalapenos? Takes some time!) Could we make the opening to the sun porch smaller or move it to the left so the top wall could be fridge, sink, stove? It's not a must, but I strongly prefer sinks that don't look at walls. I've had both and not looking at a wall is a huge plus for me.

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 3:23PM
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sena01

I tried several options.

All with 36" sink, 48" fridge, 30" DO and 30" cooktop.

I guess cooktop can be bigger except for option 1, where I have only the pantry, DO and 15" deep cabs on the interior wall and all the rest on the exterior one. With 24" cabs on both sides of the cooktop total makes 186" and you'll need extra inches for panels, fillers, so I'm not sure if this option can work for you. Besides, dish/glass storage is far from the DW and I think you should leave about 3 ft b/w the island and the long window wall, so the island will be shorter.

Option 1

Option 2

Moved fridge to the interior wall, DO to the exterior. Island can be longer than the one in option 1 but dish/glass storage still far from DW.

Option 3, 4

DW, main sink and 15" deep cabs on the exterior wall.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 8:08PM
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RChicago

Sena01, you're wonderful. Truly.

We would like a 36" induction cooktop if it can fit.

Also, were you assuming the sliders stay where they are? What if we reduce the opening to 3 feet, giving you an additional 3 feet to play with on the exterior wall. Does that help?

I hear you about dish storage. For folks with islands, does it suffice to have all the daily dish storage (dishes, cups, flatware, tupperware, etc.) stored in the island opposite the DW? Is it less than ideal?

With these designs, do we need the second sink as a prep area, or could we get away with one main sink at the exterior window.

Big, big thanks again!

And happy holidays!

    Bookmark   December 24, 2013 at 10:08AM
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sena01

I think it would be better to avoid having the DW across the island because of tight aisles on this part of the room.You don't keep the fridge or oven door open for a long time, but DW doors are different, they block the traffic for a much longer time. So, it seems I ran out of new island ideas on the foyer side of the room, but have one with a peninsula.

DW is after the corner and MW is at the end of the L counter. Both sinks face windows.

I also played with your island on the other part of the room and came up with this.

I think it would be good to have the recommended aisles (48" around the island and 65" b/w island and dining table) since you plan to raise kid(s) in this house.

This one has a single sink. DW is on the DR side. I think you'd have enough storage for everyday plates next to the cooktop. 2 panty cabs, one next to fridge, other next to DO. I meant to add a MW to the other side of the DO but forgot, so consider it there.

Merry Christmas!

    Bookmark   December 24, 2013 at 5:55PM
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