Tear apart my small kitchen layout

JibbyyDecember 19, 2013

HI all,

I've been lurking and learning for a little while now, and its come time to pull the trigger on a new kitchen.

Attached is the preliminary design supplied by the cabinet store. The kitchen is 13.5' (fridge wall) x 11' (window wall). The kitchen opens onto the dining room and LR (open space), with the 13.5' wall opposite the DR.

One issue is that one of the water lines is 40'' from the interior corner, so it might be a challenge to get a corner sink in there w/o plumbing work. Other initial changes that I thought of would be to add a drawer bank or two, and maybe delete the cabinets surrounding the range.

What would you guys do differently? The sink has to stay in that general area (can move to the right) but e/t else is fair game at this point.

Please be as harsh as possible w/ your remarks -- I can take it!

TIA

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ineffablespace

Post a plan so we can see it dimensionally, not with the distortion of a perspective drawing.

I would switch the tall cabinet from the right of the refrigerator to the left.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 12:17PM
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annkh_nd

Definitely use drawers in all the base cabinets!

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 12:22PM
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Kathy Rivera

Yes, a top view would be nice to be able to see actual dimensions and aisle widths, etc.

I agree with ineffable - switch the tall cab and fridge. And what you may want to do is turn it 90 degrees so it opens into the DR space. That's what I did (picture below) so it's only 12" deep but 24" across. I fit plenty into it and don't loose stuff in the back. Plus, it makes for a pretty 'armoire' look from the DR instead of just a panel on the side of the fridge. I don't keep every food item there - for instance, most used items are in the cab by the stove (pasta, rice, etc), but it's not so far that it's at all hard to get to from prepping anyway. I figure if I had a grand kitchen my pantry would probably be farther away! :)

Also, you do want a lot of drawers, but GWers are a bit quick to say 'all drawers', IMO. I have a smaller kitchen also (about your dimensions actually) and when KD and I started talking about what I would store where, we found that a cab on either side of the stove would function much better for me - I have my oils/vinegars/mixing bowls on one side and my cutting boards and baking sheets on the other side. If I'd had drawers there I wouldn't have had anywhere to put the other stuff. I do have plenty of drawers in others places (love my pot drawer, pyrex drawer, tupperware drawer, etc), but you need to plan for YOUR stuff.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 12:50PM
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GauchoGordo1993

where's the dining room?

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 1:59PM
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sena01

If plumbing/venting wouldn't be a problem, I'd prefer the fridge on the short wall, followed by DW and sink and move the range to the long wall.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 2:13PM
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magsnj

If you can get the sink out of the corner, I'd recommend that. Corner sinks are Very tight, both in where your body has space and the space you have next to it to put things down. its very awkward and i wouldn't do it if i didn't have to.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 5:35PM
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Cindy103d

I was so happy to get rid of my corner sink. Having the DW door open made it a particularly good hazard.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 8:13PM
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Jibbyy

I appreciate all the responses so far. Unfortunately I dont have good top down pics on my pc, but I'll try to be as descriptive as possible. In this pic, opposite the island looks directly onto the dining room - the rooms are connected.

So corner sink = bad? I wouldn't have thought that, but thats the kind of advice im looking for (total newb). The way the plumbing is now it would be easy to move it over to the right. And then put the range/hood on the other wall?

The 11' wall actually extends 22', with half the room designated as the dining room. If I put the fridge in the opposite corner (where the range is now), would it be too close to the dining area?

I will try to find a way to get a digital room layout. Thanks again!

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 8:56PM
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GauchoGordo1993

Yes, there's concensus around here that corner sinks are to be avoided if possible. And regarding the fridge too close to the dining area, never heard anybody complain about that, so I wouldn't worry about it. Fridge in the corner is sub-optimal though. Better to put the pantry in the corner than a fridge.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 9:20PM
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ardcp

why not put the sink under the window? also have you thought about doing a peninsula vs island? it seems like it may be better for traffic flow. also re the fridge, my fridge is on the wall between kitchen and dining room and it isn't an issue at all
kathyny76-love your kitchen! do you love your peninsula? i have an L kitchen that is really too narrow for an island but i don't see a lot of peninsula kitchens here. does it ever feel cramped? what do you have making up the peninsula for cabinetry? also what did you use for cabinet brand?

This post was edited by ardcp on Fri, Dec 20, 13 at 4:50

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 4:45AM
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ControlfreakECS

I think I would do the fridge and pantry combo in the area you now have the range. Then DW next to that with sink under window. Put range on short wall making sure you have at least 24" to the left of the range (probably more, I think aesthetically, I'd want to center it with the island).

There's no detailed measurements (that's why it's hard for people to help you) but it seems that should give you very good space between sink and range to prep, as well as the expanse of counter on the island directly opposite the range. Having the long side of the island face the range is much more ideal than the short side, anyway.

It is your window wall that may be tight, it is hard for me to tell without knowing the size pantry you need, the fridge size, sink size, etc. Can that wall be lengthened at all?

Keep in mind your aisles. Between the cabs/counters along the wall and the island counter (counters stick out about 1-2" from the cabinets) you want a minimum of 42" and more if you are a multi cook family.

Oh, and not sure if this has been mentioned, but do more drawer bases and fewer basic cabinets. They provide much more efficient storage.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 7:25AM
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jakuvall

I'm a dissenter on the corner sink.
Done properly they can improve counter space. IN your kitchen it does just that and the dishwasher is placed properly- so that you can open it and still be at the sink. The majority of corner sinks I see are done poorly hence the complaints. I have customers who love them, lots.
NOTE: I ALWAYS use a recessed corner sink cabinet. The face of the cabinet is recessed 4-6". This makes for better clearance to the DW, easier access to the adjacent counters, better access to the wall cabinet above, increases the possible width of the sink cabinet without increasing the required wall space.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 9:37AM
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PRO
Sophie Wheeler

Corner sinks can work for a SINGLE worker kitchen. Or, if you add in a prep sink on the island. In a kitchen where you hope to train kids to be self sufficient and have them work along side you, a corner sink is a huge PIA and an impediment to efficient work.

If you keep the corner sink, and that goes for actually in the corner on the diagonal or just shoved into a corner, then add a prep sink to the island. You'll need it.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 9:41AM
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GauchoGordo1993

Gosh, I'm feeling waves of claustrophobia just looking at that recessed corner sink...

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 10:02AM
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jakuvall

Here is a quickie with guessing at dimensions. Showing sink in two alternate locations and dishwasher the required 21" off of the counter. Didn't bother trying to adjust the cabinets, go ahead and have fun.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 10:56AM
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jellytoast

I would make sure there is a filler piece (not sure if that's what it is actually called) on either side of the refrigerator, rather than just having the tall cabinet on the one side butt right up against the refrigerator. It looks more symmetrical to have an even "box" around the fridge, IMHO. I'd also bump the box out a bit so that the granite overhang on the one side has something to bump up against. It also allows the fridge to be recessed in a bit more so that sides of the fridge don't stick out even a little bit.

Jakuvall, I see your point about the increased functionality of the recessed corner sink, but like GauchoGordo, I'd feel claustrophobic tucked back in there! If I were the OP, I'd want my sink out of the corner and under the window. I don't really mind the look of a corner sink, but to be doing dishes and staring into that corner, plus having that upper cabinet in my face ... I wouldn't like it very much. Washing dishes is therapeutic for me, but probably because I can stare out the window while I'm doing them.

I also agree with KathyNY76 that the "all drawers for lowers" does not work for all applications, especially in smaller kitchens. Think about what YOU will be storing in those cabinets and get what works for your situation. The last thing I wanted in my kitchen was a bunch of narrow drawer banks!

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 2:25PM
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Kathy Rivera

Can you draw out the kitchen by hand for the top down view? Doesn't have to be to scale (though that's always nice), but just some dimensions written in? It really is so helpful and will really get people's ideas flowing.

I also like a corner sink. I had one pre reno and it gave me a great deal of uninterrupted counter space -crucial in a smaller space- that I would not have had if sink was on the run under the window. People always complain about loading the dishwasher with a corner sink, but I never found it to be a problem. In fact, now that I have a 'typical' sink/DW set up, I find that I splash water all over the floor when loading! Before the water really only splashed onto the opened door. Also, the KDers I met with all insisted a recessed corner was better, but I have to say I would not have wanted that. I'm a klutz and would have always been bumping my hips! :)

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 10:00PM
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mdln

Attached is a useful & FREE tool to develop, save & print design layouts.

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA virtual planning tool

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 4:39PM
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