Future of Counter Top Cooker Appliances. Toaster Oven, Roaster,

davidro1December 24, 2010

Toaster oven, or Counter Top Roaster, or whatever. Many people use their small appliance to cook things bigger than toast. This looks promising. I see a future in this.

"counter+top+oven" alone produces 350 results, in kitchen and appliance forums.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1210395530349.html Oven Problems.. Bake... Counter Top Roaster

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1021241512358.html Do you love your toaster oven?http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg1214104819721.html Breville toaster oven

a typical remark:

... have been using it to cook everything ... toast, pizzas, roasts, full size casseroles, chicken tenders, cookies, dinner rolls. It's a 'must have' in my kitchen even though it does take up a lot of counter space. I love the idea of creating a cubby for it. I'm also curious to hear Breville's response about the clearance as it does get pretty hot on the sides. ...


... never used a TO until we remodeled.... we got the Cuisinart TOB-195. It's convection and fits a frozen pizza. We used it every day, several times a day and it worked great! But, we did need to use potholders to open it as it did get hot, as I recall. However, since I had not considered a TO during the design phase, I didn't make a place for it ...


... amazing! We've done cookies, bagels and toast, small pork roast, and frozen foods. It's much nicer than nuking the leftover pizza...


Lesson learned? Is it that there is call for a small capacity cooking appliance?

If this is the conclusion, I think I'd rather have it built in than sitting on the counter. It will cost more, to be insulated. But I think that's what I'd ruther.



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Yes there is David! I wish I had realized just how useful that TO was before the remodel! (The comment about never using until remodel is mine, IIRC!) Unfortunately, since I have no room for it, my TO hasn't been used since the remodel! (It's on the floor in my pantry.)

Maybe we should add a question about it in the "Read Me" thread where we talk about appliances & work space/zones...then we could start addressing it in people's layouts.

The only problem w/built-in is that some of them get quite hot...not just an insulation issue, but also overheating the appliance. But maybe a pull-out shelf over a counter that allows it to be used & then cool "in the open" and then can be pushed back in.

Manufacturers take note! Better insulation of your TOs!

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 1:13PM
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I agree. I'm done with my renovation, and now I'm wishing I had a space for a countertop convection microwave. Part of the problem is that I didn't even know they existed when I was planning the project. There also seems to be a lot of confusion about the various speed ovens available. It would be nice if there were a reference thread about countertop (vs built-in) small cookers for people planning their reno.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 1:47PM
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I just got a convection toaster oven replacing my barely working old toaster oven and my barely working toaster. It actually freed up space. It also gives me a small seoond oven since I didn't have room in my remodel for a second oven. I don't think it makes sense to build-in a toaster oven - heat issue as well as the fact that there are no "standard" sizes. Same issue with MWs but I went ahead and built one in anyway. If I had the room I'd have a built-in wall oven and a toaster on the counter.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 5:21PM
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Our stove will have a small oven in it (next to the larger one), so we don't have to have a toaster oven, but it sure came in handy during the reno (now)! I also have a tabletop convection oven from years ago that has been pressed back into service but with a new wall convection oven, will be redundant. Once the new kitchen is done, they will be banished to storage again, but I could see using them when entertaining if needed....
We use our 4 slot toaster every day, so there is a spot for that in the new kitchen.
I could not conceive of a kitchen without my food processor though. I had been excited to get a stand mixer a few years back, but once I got my large mouth KA food processor, the stand mixer went unused. I may even put it out of the way until needed for a project. I mix just as well in the fp and there is usually less flour flying, lol.
I think the challenge with the new larger space will be to not fill it up with fun gadgets. I am sucker for kitchen tools and gizmos.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 6:31PM
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I use my TO more than I do my main oven. I don't do heavy duty cooking with it, but if it ever broke, I'd be buying one about as quickly as if my washing machine had broken.

I agree with Weissman on the point of not building in this particular appliance as sizes are all over the place and after reading countless reviews, none of them are particularly long-lasting.

I have planned for garage appliance storage of my TO. I was going to have it on a sliding shelf but I recently decided to save on space and have it sit directly on the counter-top. I figured it would slide out easy enough when I need to use it. My countertop is 27 inches deep and the garage is 18 inches deep so I have plenty of space to slide it out for heat ventilation.

My current TO brand is Krups. It stays very cool on the sides but definitely gets hot on top. Accommodates a small pizza and is non-digital for the controls. When the door drops down, it pulls the rack along with it which is a nice feature. I've had it for several years.

Merry Christmas!
~ Floor tile is being installed

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 7:30PM
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During one of my too-many oven searches, I came to the conclusion that someone should manufacture a wall oven and a half. So many things, like pizza, one pan of cookies or rolls, need the consistent temp, oven cooking features, and the width of a 'real' oven, but not the full height. Even for our size family, I could see that working. The wall ovens with 2 partial-height ovens, or the ranges with a drawer oven at floor level are a start in that direction, but I'd never have either.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 7:46PM
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This is part of a larger conversation about how big a range/cooktop/toaster/oven/etc we really need. It's more important to design your kitchen for everyday use than for the occasional party or wedding reception or such when you can haul out little units like you describe to augment the essential unit. Although she had two ovens in her very progressive 1960s house, my MIL who had 4 teenaged boys rarely used her big range oven; she used an innovative wall-mounted small oven much of the time back then and continued so into her old age. Her kitchen was small but efficient. For parties, she'd pull out the portable turkey roaster and would fill both ovens. And the grill outside was an extension of the kitchen too.

I watched purchasers of all all kinds of small appliances on sale at store last week and shook my head. Couldn't really imagine so many single-purpose appliances being useful to someone who has a home kitchen with X amount of counterspace.

I had a little Black and Decker toaster oven that I used during reno but it was very very hot to touch. I feared I might melt something on new counter. It's been moved back to camper trailer now, where it belongs. Your posting illustrates the very reason I bought a double oven range with small unit on top. For two people, this is a good thing. Casseroles, brownies, two loaves of quickbread, etc. and grilled food as well. I can use it while standing straight upright yet it doesn't eat up counterspace. (I have a single burner induction plate to give me a 5th burner if I ever need one, but induction has fan sounds that irritate and new range is versatile in sizes of burners so induction plate went into a drawer and hasn't come out since.) We have a small, cheap toaster, though, which I continue to use.

The microwave changed cooking forever. I don't think little baking / grilling / toasting appliances will do the same, although they can add utility to a kitchen or dorm or apartment which has limited cooking options.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2010 at 12:00PM
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I think the manufacturers already understand our "wants" for a smaller oven. In fact, I've currently got the GE two oven range - which has a smaller oven on top. It is great for pizzas, and really almost everything my family eats on a daily basis. The larger oven on the bottom rarely gets used. I'm going to replace it (wrong color), but I'm thinking I may need to keep this feature no matter what brand I get (considering the Whirlpool now too).

The TO / MW area was the one space in my new kitchen that was a custom design. I specifically built a tower that had the TO at counter level and the MW about 17 inches above it (lower than an over the range MW). From the great room, you will only see the side of the tower as the back faces the fridge and the panels face forward (open side away from the main focal point). The open space should be large enough to withstand the heat, and easily allow me to swap out appliances that get broken or old (these things break all the time after all). I can't wait for it all to get here so that I can share this idea.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2010 at 3:53PM
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For me the 2-ovens-in-the-place-of-one...or in the space of 1 1/4 on a range... will not do it. At least the ones I've seen do not have a full size oven in the mix, but a slightly smaller version in order to fit the 2nd oven. I checked those and a fully risen loaf of bread could get too close to the top element if not on the bottom rack of the oven...which is too close to the bottom element. There are already range ovens in which people have problems fitting a good-sized turkey. I really need the full size of my full-size wall oven, but could often do with another half for the 2nd. The combos with single wall oven and speed cook ovens that will stack are close, but not quite the same...and too much more expensive than a full double oven.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2010 at 5:19PM
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Are you refering to a wall oven? I guess I'm talking about a range (GE Profile). The lower oven is smaller with a capacity of 4.4 instead of the average 5.0, but that really doesn't seem all that small to me. It is certainly more than large enough for bread. In fact, I cooked a good sized turkey in it and yesterday a large ham. It had plenty of room to spare. Not that I'm saying you should run out to buy one, but that I wouldn't cross it off my list for that reason. The top oven - while not tall, is plenty wide and has been used for baking caseroles, pizzas, brownies, ect.

Just curious, are we talking about the same thing?

    Bookmark   December 26, 2010 at 6:12PM
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I think some of this depends on how big your small appliance is, too. We've always had the old GE Toast-R-Oven, and the last one finally gave up the ghost. It was small enough that I never saw a need for a shelf or built-in space for it. We replaced it with a Breville Compact Smart Oven, which is bigger but not so big that I saw the need for built-in. Then someone gave us the Breville full-sized oven. We got it out and put it next to the small one (which is still in its return window) to see which would be best for us. It was WAY too big to just sit out on the counter---we only have a couple of runs of counter, and it would have eaten up about half of either of them. It would need to have a shelf or other cubby built for it, but we're done with cabinetry at this point so that was a no go.

It's worth noting, though, that we aren't a microwave household. I get the sense that modern microwaves are quite large too (bigger than most toaster ovens, it seems!), so if you already had one of those in the mix, it might seem more normal to have such a large counter appliance. Still, while I like the idea of a built-in space, I'm not sure I'd want a built-in appliance----one of the things that's great about our toaster oven (and its predecessors) is that it's mobile, and can help us out during a remodel, or during a dinner party. If it were built in, that wouldn't be an option. So I guess for appliances small enough to move, I prefer them freestanding; once it's big enough to be a pain to move, might as well be built in! (We're also among the few who love that our toaster oven gets hot on top, though---we use it regularly as a plate warmer, so it's pretty handy for a kitchen without things like a warming drawer for that purpose.)

    Bookmark   December 26, 2010 at 7:23PM
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We don't have any countertop cooking appliances anymore and even though we included a built-in microwave during our reno, we don't use it. We installed one because someone told us we should just in case. I know many people dislike the AGA cookers but let me tell you, as simple as they are, they are truly amazing! They are an appliance that does everything and do it very well. If we ever were to move, we both agree we would buy another AGA in an instant. Costly to buy, yes. Worth it, absolutely.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2010 at 8:04PM
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I just installed a Miele Speed oven and 30" convection oven in my very small kitchen. I hate appliances sitting on the counter. I think the speed oven will become our primary oven taking the place of counter top toaster oven and microwave as well as being used for faster and more energy efficient roasting and baking for a 2 person family. I still put in a 30" oven for entertaining and to protect resale value for my large family size home.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2010 at 11:18PM
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I've used a toaster oven since forever. As soon as one dies, it's replaced within days because it gets used daily (just 2 people in our house) for toast (I prefer already-buttered, broiled toast) and for most dinners (great for 2 pieces of whatever meat is being cooked). Big oven is only for cakes that need proper temp control and for big casseroles. In our new house, I made a place for it in the walk-in pantry because I was tired of it on the countertop.

Instead of double wall ovens (which is what I ended up with), I'd have preferred a full sized oven and then something either half-sized or even smaller stacked with it. I really think there's a market for something like that. Since they already have the free-standing range version, maybe it's just a matter of time.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 10:08AM
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I really dislike having a lot of clutter on the countertops, so when our toaster bit the dust, I threw it away and never replaced it. I figured why bother with a toaster when my toaster oven can make toast just fine, along with lots of other things?

So we bought the toaster oven years ago when our wall oven went caput and we didn't have the money to buy a new one. You see it on the countertop next to the cooktop in my old kitchen. It took up valuable countertop space, but also served a valuable purpose. I was surprised by how often we used it, even after we bought a new wall oven. And it was, of course, very useful during the reno.

But I knew I didn't want the TO on the countertop of my new kitchen. It was my intention to retire it to our camper. That, however, is not what happened.

I realized when the kitchen was finished that the appliance garage that I'd had put in was not going to be big enough to store all my small appliances. The Lazy Susan underneath it was a better place for them. So what to do with the appliance garage?

Yep, it was a perfect fit for the TO, with plenty of room for air to circulate all around it. We just make sure that we leave the cabinet doors open when we are using it. It has worked out well, and I just let people think that I planned it that way.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 10:12AM
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An aside: No poster has noted that unless a countertop oven is of sufficient dimensions, you have to work with restricted sizes for your cookware. My short and wide retired toaster oven had one oddball oblong glass casserole (thank you Goodwill) and a jumble of recycled flimsy aluminum bakery containers. Nothing else could have fit in it.

Report from Hoople...in the world of Midwest "hotdishes"...looking back on our family event yesterday using GE Profile Electric dual oven range with smaller oven at top...

I had my offering--the scalloped potatoes--in overlarge casserole in the top oven for 1.5 hours beginning well before guests arrived. Found there was not enough clearance for my largest casserole if I use its own lid; as usual, I substituted a glass piepan for the Pyrex lid with intrusive knob at top. (I would have done the same in old oven in order to cram more items into the tight shelf space, using either piepans or glass plates as lids. I love using glass casseroles but they no longer sell low-clearance lids.)

BIL had requested baking space for his baked sweet potato dish. Shortly before I anticipated BIL's arrival, I heated second oven. He took over, set up two long trays of preprepared veg, and happily baked them. Later, we turned off upper oven and consolidated all the hot entrees in the lower oven until serving time to keep them warm.

In previous kitchen with single oven, I would have chosen all oven containers for their height/footprint and would have used a countertop turkey roaster if things still didn't all fit in the single range oven. Or we would have had towels and such wrapped around the hot foods as they arrived.

Microwave on opposite end of kitchen was used by two of the guests and the range top was appropriated by BIL for a different dish. Grilled fish and venison were done outside. No one seemed to find the arrangements unsatisfactory so that was good. [Afterward, DH bragged about the kitchen's flexibility and complimented the range, which was my Hunter's Wife's Revenge for this year.]

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 10:15AM
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This is part of a larger conversation about how big a range/cooktop/toaster/oven/etc we really need. Quoting florantha.

I have space for one more wall oven, and I'm waiting to figure out what I "need" or what I would use a lot. I am uncertain as to the appropriate number of "ovens" and especially, which type of oven. At the moment I have no microwave, no toaster oven, and no other plug-in heating appliance (which I did use in 2009 during the total gut and rebuild of my kitchen, and which worked well and "safely" when they had a table or countertop dedicated to them and a lot of air space around them to dissipate the heat they generated).

Today I use one small wall oven for everything, and it works VERY well for all purposes, as far as I can tell. (Of course you don't know what you're missing unitl you get something new and start using it.) It's small, modern, well insulated, convection. It warms up fast. It's also large enough to hold a huge roasting pan. I feel I don't need a toaster oven. But what about a steam oven or a microwave or speed oven or a combination? I have the plumbing, I have the circuits, I have the money, I have the skill to install. But it still isn't clear what to get, and whether it would do anything different.

(I once bought an expensive bicycle when I already had one that worked fine. What a waste. It was just a liability. Something MORE to take care of.)


The thread has comments from people who are articulate and have a lot of insight, yet it seems they too are uncertain about what they would like, what they want in an ideal next kitchen, and whether or not they really would use a (insert key word here) like steam, or speed oven, or combination MW-convection, or whatever.

The question is what to buy and why, in terms of cooking.

And for me, it has to be built in not occupying countertop real estate. I renovated in order to make things more built-in, not less so, and not to have crumbs plugs and dangling cords sold to me as the newest and latest thing.

On another thread I mentioned I bought the Breville bamboo cutting board. I did not buy the Breville oven. I have the space for it, or for some other appliance.

But what do I want? Anyone? (Bueller?)

    Bookmark   January 1, 2011 at 2:10PM
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I am the coveted owner of a one and a half wall oven stack a.k.a The Holy Grail of ovens. Mine still aren't quite what you were looking for because I opted for 24" instead of the 30" I believe you need.

I think we had a thread on this before and I got to be smugly happy about my stack then too! I just wanted to say that my stack is still way, way, way better than I had hoped and that having done it I can't imagine doing it any other way.

Because my "half" is only a 24" steam oven it's perfectly sized for all the things I'd use a toaster oven for so no toaster oven or steamers for me. It also has a very low setting for plate warming or bread proofing so I'm doing okay on those too.

I don't have a toaster because I'd LOVE a toaster... but then I'd eat toast all the time. And encouraging myself to eat a lot more bread and butter seems a poor choice for my waist line!

Because I got two cooktops and therefore have the 6 burners so far apart I don't have any real need for say a crockpot either. I just use a cast iron pot. (in theory I could take a crock pot to work but still havn't planned a space in my kitchen?) In fact, that spread of burners eliminated alot of small appliances.

Sometimes I consider getting one of those independant big turkey roaster for the big things because I chose such small ovens (the opposite I suppose of buying a big oven and then needig a toasteroven) but I havn't found a use yet. It's just idle speculation.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2011 at 4:09PM
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When we moved to our current house I spent a lot of advance time decluttering in preparation for the move. I used to bake a lot, but not so much anymore. And not so much gourmet cooking as in the past. But I still had practically every small appliance and kitchen gadget known to man.

I read a tip somewhere that said to take all the gadgets and put them in a separate bin, and then after a year if you haven't used something , chances are you never would. That was a cool exercise, and really helped in determining how to downsize my gadgets and small appliances.

Got rid of the cuisinart, steamer, large mixer, breadmaker, pasta maker, juicer, and some other goofier small appliances that were pretty much just taking up shelf space. And a whackload of small gadgets to boot. Felt so liberating!

I'd decided a couple of years prior that I wasn't the toaster-oven kind of gal. Not sure if it was just our model (waring pro) but it never roasted vegetables to where they'd properly carmelize, and since we like to have some kind of roasted veggies almost every night with dinner this was a big deal for me.

I really like the back-to-basics cooking with the regular oven and stovetop (and microwave, lol). The only small appliances we have now are the coffee maker, toaster, a hand mixer and a blender. The blender does practically everything I need these days ... the biggest extent of which is pureeing a homemade soup though, so admittedly I'm unlike a lot of you who are much fancier cooks.

Love the fact that we've eliminated all those space-grabbing countertop appliances. I'm happy steaming veggies in a pot on the stove, then sticking them in the regular oven to carmelize. Happy using the stovetop for frying and not a separate fryer. Happier hand-chopping ingredients than lugging out the cuisinart (and then having to clean it). And ecstatic at having a utensil drawer that I can actually find stuff in nowadays.

Personally I couldn't live without a microwave. But I don't see the newer small appliances revolutionizing cooking like the microwave did.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2011 at 7:08PM
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The hubbie, teenage daughter and I have "survived" the remodel, thus far, with a toaster, microwave, crockpot and take-out.

But, when VEGAN son came home from college for the holidays, I realized these tools weren't going to grill his vegan burgers or veggies. So, I broke-down and purchased one of those Grillers, and the son and daughter love cooking on it!!!

Daughter loves to make panini/grilled cheese sandwiches, and son uses it to grill his burgers, tofurkey slices and veggies. Have yet to try the son's recipe for Vegan pancakes, perhaps, tomorrow...

Our new stovetop (to be installed in 2011!) will have a grill, but I've been warned grills are a pain in the tushie to clean. Don't know yet, but we may end up keeping the "griller," rather than giving it to my sister after the remodel as I had originally planned.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2011 at 8:43PM
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I vote for 1 and 1/2 oven. That would serve me well and solve kitchen layout dilemma.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 9:20AM
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built in? never. -or what i really mean to say is, not really. i like the option of changing smaller appliances out every so often. i realize there's a big trend for built in microwaves these days but i just don't see (A) spending the upcharge for a built in model and (B) committing to that particular brand/model. it is after all, just a microwave. granted, they do more now and even have convection modes but for me it still feels like an item easily replaceable -and as long as that's the case i don't want to dedicate a specific space for it framed out inside my cabinetry. microwave: easily changed out; custom cabinetry: not so much.

my kitchen unfortunately is still not done so no pics of it yet but i have two appliance garages that span the width between my fridge and freezer (about five feet). the counter is extra deep and the micro, toaster oven, coffee pot, etc will pull out from the rear.

so while i'll lose any benefits from insulating these appliances i do have the ability to change things out every once in a while. to me, a useful space is one that allows for some flexibility. i'm already married with two kids and a cat. i don't want to commit myself any further.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 10:06AM
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For small ovens, I think my vague idea of built-in includes most anything that is not on the counter, and not sitting exposed on an open shelf. Within this there is broad scope and many ways to take any old appliance and Cover it up a bit, with panels, doors, screens and more. I see a possible standard in a 15"h and 24"w cover panel with different sized openings to suit various portable uninsulated appliances.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 10:30AM
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I read through this with interest, as I "missed the boat" on this when planning the cabinetry for our remodel.

We wouldn't be able to live without a basic toaster oven. (When we moved to China for five years, it is the only appliance I bothered to order in a 220-volt version and ship over with us.)

During the five months of our reno, I thought it would be wise to get a slightly larger version than the old Black and Decker for our temp set-up. (It was more like $89 than $49, just so we know--not fancy or convection or part microwave or anything.) I LOVED THIS OVEN! Since I tend to be more of a stovetop cook, it was adequate for so many things--heating up baguettes, baking small batches of cookies, smaller casseroles. I kind of liked that there were no leftovers to feel guilty about throwing out later in the week.

But, alas, when it came time to move things into the new kitchen, this oven didn't fit in the appliance garage. It is about an inch too deep. Only the Black and Decker fits, which is too small for much besides toast. Do I "ruin" my clutter-free countertop with this appliance? I still miss it and it is sitting in the attic. I have VERY LITTLE counter space in the new kitchen.

Grrrr I sure wish I had planned for this wonderful little appliance!!!

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 11:12AM
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shanghaimom, you or someone can break open some or all of the wall behind the appliance garage, dig out some of the wall, and seal it with minimal work, like e.g. by using a piece of the same thin panel backing material that comes with many kitchen cabinets. It's likely to be do-able.

You will have thereby made a recess in the wall. It's customizing. It's an afterthought. It's worth it. A niche in the back of the garage.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 11:38AM
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Davidro, good idea but unfortunately my appliance garage does not have a wall behind it. I would have surely busted into that wall within a week, had it been an option. (-8

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 3:31PM
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I use my toaster oven every day and I love it. I will start baked potatoes in the microwave for speed of cooking and then transfer them to the toaster oven to get the oven baked consistency.

I have even baked salmon and pork tenderloin in the toaster oven for my family. I use it to reheat leftover pizza, make nachos, and make hot sandwiches. I could not live without it.

Our new range is the GE cafe which I love but the second oven is a drawer on the bottom. I've never even attempted to use it because it is so inconvenient. We have friends with the GE profile who have the smaller oven on top of the larger oven and they use it all the time for pizzas, appetizers, etc. It is very convenient and I wish mine was configured like that.

My toaster oven and coffee maker sit out on the counter and it does not bother me.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 6:52PM
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I do like the look of built-in appliances, and dislike the counter top clutter. But I do not need the completely closed-in look, either. When I found our used kitchen cabinets at Green Demolitions, the first thing I figured out was that the dishwasher was going into the double wall oven cabinet. There was a drawer at the bottom of the cabinet, so when you included the toekick, the dishwasher could sit about a foot off of the ground. This was perfect for our aging backs. It also left a nice space for the microwave to live.

The counter top that the MW sits upon was also needed for the dishwasher to sit under, and my carpenter nicely rounded the corners of the little counter to match the ends of the larger counters. I have room next to the MW for the wooden trays we use to set hot plates upon. Best of all, the space will fit any reasonable MW or other appliance that may someday replace it.

We do like our toaster oven, as well. DH researched the heck out of it when we got this new one about a year ago. It has a bump-out in the back to fit a 12 inch pizza - the perfect size for the two of us. He likes toast and bagels in it, as well. I am like Morgne, though, and need no encouragement to have toast with butter - so try not to think about the toaster oven in those terms. I use it to crisp up the tops of my little vegan whole wheat pot pies, post MW!

At one point in the design of the kitchen, I had the TO sitting in the wall cabinet that is meant for a MW (of course, since I had the MW where the WO belonged, stay with me here!). But both the carpenter and DH decided that we did not want to hang the MW cab and other cabs with it and make that end of the kitchen feel closed in. It would have hung above these wall cabs that we converted to base cabs:

So the TO ended up back on the counter. One of my design dilemmas, though, was that the huge number of floor-to-ceiling cabinets we have forced me into having a dead-end counter run where the wall cabs on the sink wall ran into the wall oven cab (the one really used for a wall oven, not the other one!). It is in the right-hand corner of the kitchen. My carpenter actually made the 30" wall oven cabinet and the corner wall cabinet next to it, giving the kitchen a fully integrated look.

And now we have the Kenmore TO in that space. Hidden behind it is DH's tall plastic (yuck!) steamer appliance and a real toaster. (Not in this picture, they still were not unpacked when this was taken,) I would prefer to simply use the stainless steamer on the stovetop, like Taggie does, but the plastic one was a gift and has sentimental value for DH.

For now, the cutting boards also tuck in next to the toaster oven. The pizza paddle will have to find a new home, though.

My point is that there are ways to have counter-top appliances not take up usable counter space. You can design them into an appliance garage, put them into a pantry, or have them in a cabinet without having to go the totally built-in route.

Oh, my counter-top roaster lives in the garage cabinet 360 days of the year.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Going In

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 9:51PM
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This has been a timely discussion for me because for the past week I've been trying to figure out what I'm going to do about oven(s). I currently have a Maytag Geminii electric stove with 2 ovens--small oven on top. I like having the 2 ovens and only need the second oven to be the size of my current small oven. It wouldn't have to be 2 ovens together--I'd actually prefer separate ovens. Unfortunately, nobody seems to make a regular oven (would't need to be convection) the size of a warming drawer or slightly larger.

If I can't get a small second oven, I'm considering getting some kind of toaster oven. We currently have a 4-slice toaster that we're perfectly happy with and use fairly frequently (about 4 times/week).

The only oven combination I've found is a GE profile single/double oven, but I'm not sure the larger oven is large enough and the oven doesn't seem to get very good reviews. I don't need any "fancy" ovens, but I do want oven(s) that hold their temperature accurately since my current ovens definitely don't do this.

I wish the appliance manufacturers would realize there is a need/market for a smaller second oven.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2011 at 3:00AM
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Have you looked at some of the steam ovens? They are usually a smaller size but much pricier.


    Bookmark   January 3, 2011 at 9:46AM
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I definitely use the toaster oven more than the one in my stove. It earns its space! We plan to put it on the counter down near the eating area in our new home so DH can easily make his toast on the weekends while reading the paper. I don't worry about it being too hot. Makes a good spot for defrosting my bowl of frozen berries for cereal as his toast cooks. Guess we are all different!

    Bookmark   January 3, 2011 at 10:56AM
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Morgne, I don't know much about a steam oven, but they seem a bit pricey. I noticed from your earlier post here that you have an oven and a half. Would you mind sharing what brand & model you have? What do you use your steam oven for? (Is this a stupid question?) I'm still in planning stage (a long planning stage LOL), and I tend to research things to death. TIA for any info you can give me!

    Bookmark   January 3, 2011 at 11:12PM
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Sorry, I almost missed your reply.

I have two AEG Ovens. A half and a full. These are two separate ovens, not a combo. AEG is the european... friend? of electrolux.

I am located in Oregon and had them shipped in from overseas via a company in Canada. I can give you references to that if you wanted to go to those lengths but I have to say, as much as I love my 1.5 I don't know if I would push the expense and stress of doing it that way onto somone else.

Steam ovens ARE pricier. Just flat out. No holds barred. Lol. But they are the only ovens where people seeming to be aiming for smaller in size rather than larger. If you think you might be interested you should put in a new post asking about steam ovens in the name. You'll get a ton of responses. And, for that matter, tons of cool pictures!

    Bookmark   January 4, 2011 at 7:50PM
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I think I'll try to run over later in the week to a local appliance store that carries the higher end, talk to them, and then post some questions. Thanks Morgne! BTW, I can't find your kitchen in the FKB and I've also done a forum search. Could you post a link or a couple of pics, please. Thanks.

    Bookmark   January 4, 2011 at 8:10PM
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Coming late to the conversation here, butI have the same setup - AEG 24" steam/convection oven stacked over a 24" convection oven. You can see in the pic how they are 1 1/2. I'm delighted with these ovens. Here are a couple of pics of my still unfinished kitchen:

and a worse pic but with the soapstone ctops installed:

One of the many great things about the 1/2 oven is that it heats up in no time, and seems to cook things faster too.

I think there is a way to turn off those nasty red lights when the oven is not in use, but I haven't figured it out yet. It looks worse in the pic than in real life

    Bookmark   January 9, 2011 at 3:53PM
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Thanks for posting an example for me!

    Bookmark   January 9, 2011 at 8:38PM
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is the AEG steam oven a combi ovens?

    Bookmark   January 10, 2011 at 3:04PM
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found using keywords
AEG 24" steam oven
AEG 24" steam/convection oven


    Bookmark   January 10, 2011 at 4:36PM
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Yes - it is a regular convection oven and a steam oven. I really like it.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2011 at 7:10PM
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