Buyers remorse or I'll never even notice?

autumn.4December 8, 2013

I ordered Shiloh framed full overlay cabinets for our new build on Friday. From the get go I had them quoted with Blum full extension. At our last meeting the KD broke them out as a line item since we are pinching pennies and I saw how much extra they were going to cost - $767.00! So I decided not to get them - the standard is Hettich. They had both side by side and there is clearly a difference. Blum slide like butter. I am convincing myself that if they weren't side by side and I only had tried the Hettich they would have been more than fine and in fact are nicer than anything I have ever owned. Ours is a moderate build - total kitchen cost $12,000. I made the decision and didn't think twice about it until yesterday.

I have decided I WISH he never would have broken it down - if he hadn't I'd have the Blum for sure darn it! :( I know he detailed it to give me the ultimate flexibility in picking and choosing but argh! That was the one thing from the beginning I was sure on but after seeing the cost I just couldn't do it.

So, anyone have experience with Hettich? Anyone buy Shiloh and NOT upgrade to Blum? He said nearly everyone that he sells Shiloh too sticks with Hettich. I have all drawers so that is why the cost is up there.

What do you think? A total non-issue? I know it's a first world problem and I surely hope I don't obsess about everything else with a new build like I have this kitchen, lol!

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deedles

I found this 2011 review on Hardware Hut:

By: wilburg 4-29-2011 08:23 PM
I just finished a cabinet and used three sets of Blum drawer slides similar to these in the left side of the cabinet. I bought these Hettich slides to finish the right side of the cabinet, and am truly pleased with the value for the money. I like them so much that I've purchased more for some other projects I have in the works.

And from Amazon:
Great slides that I did retro fit to an existing drawer., March 6, 2013
By
George - See all my reviews
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Hettich 21in Quadro Soft Closing Drawer Slide IW21 (Misc.)
Very well made, and smooth operation. I've seen information that states these cannot be used for retro-fitting, but that's what I used them for. (It would be faster and easier to use them during the construction.)
I used them to fix a drawer that was worn from constant use. I takes some thought and figuring, and even getting some advise from a retired carpenter. If you take some time, and triple check all the measurements, these can be made to work on an existing cabinet. I'm going to get another set for another drawer below the one I just fixed.

You know, the drawers in my current kitchen are old, maybe 1940s with the integral wood glides. They were sticky and it drove me nuts so I ordered some of this teflon tape from Rockler and now they glide like a dream. I was just wondering why I can't get my cab guy to make my new drawers like the old ones and save all the money on slides? I'll bet, if as you say, these are better than you're used to that you'll be fine. And a little less broke, too.
:)

Here is a link that might be useful: hettich slide discussion

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:11AM
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autumn.4

Thank you deedles. I found that one review off amazon this morning but not a ton of comparisons or just Hettich review information. I found a Liberty v Blum review on GW and there was a post by a well respected KD that discussed weight load and that Blum was superior to Hettich and more durable. That made me uneasy and the Hettich isn't FULL extension but CLOSE to full extension (again better than what I had). I know Hettich has been around a long time and they are German not Chinese made so I figured a bonus there.

I can certainly use that extra $ to add to my overly lean counter top budget. Why oh why do these little details stress me so.

Your kitchen is coming right along! :)

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:40AM
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northcarolina

Our old kitchen cabinets had Hettich hardware, and it was still in excellent condition and worked well after 20-25 years.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:42AM
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autumn.4

Oh northcarolina - THANK YOU for your first hand testimony. I am starting to feel better. I just found another thread on another site that was encouraging also.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:47AM
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deedles

My cab guy is using K&V and I'm fine with that.

Have you seen this short GW discussion? I think you'll be fine with the Hettich. Get 'em and move on, I say!

Here is a link that might be useful: glides

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:51AM
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snookums2

As long as it's not a cheapy substitute, get a Vitamix instead ;)

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 8:59

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:57AM
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andreak100

How long are you going to be in the house? How long will you be using your kitchen? Is it something that you are going to look back on later and wish you did differently?

And lastly (and probably most importantly), can you AFFORD to change it if you want to? Or is that $750 totally out of your budget? Because if it is, then it really doesn't matter if one is better than the other. Will you have to cut that $750 out somewhere else where it might be even more important?

Personally, we used Blum everywhere that we could. We have a few special applications where we have to do something different. But, for us, the comparison was enough difference that we just didn't consider anything else. Like you, we have almost everything on slides (almost all drawers). We don't plan on redoing our kitchen in the next...oh...say...forever...so, we just didn't truly consider anything but what is considered to be the best quality slide - all full extension and all soft close.

But, let's say that you are going to be in the house for 10 years with the kitchen you are putting in...will you get enough enjoyment out of the better slides each year for it to cost you $75 a year (assuming you can afford it)?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 9:00AM
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autumn.4

deedles-in my searching I have read many good things about K&V. :)

snookums-for me I think it would be a KA mixer (polar opposite of the healthy vitamix). I love to bake and I wonder what new creations I could cook up with one of those beauties. I do have a magic bullet and I use that frequently.

andrea-and there in lies the crux of my wondering. I see it as function not form (so not an extra cost just for pretty). We will be in this house likely forever or that is the plan although you never know. But if I am paying just for name then I don't see that as a necessity. I am trying to figure that out - Blum is certainly more well known but does that truly mean they are better/more durable?

The biggest issue is not that we are just updating our kitchen - because it's a whole house everything adds up. I added built-ins flanking the fireplace so now my head is saying the cost of those slides is almost as much as BOTH cabinets you are putting in. Constant justification process (we are gcing so I see every single dollar and where it's going - there is nothing hidden or combined in a sum - which is why when the KD hadn't broken it out it didn't phase me when I saw the total because it was built in from the very beginning). I love your amortization analogy - I do that ALL THE TIME as a way to justify a purchase and it has me thinking... ;)

If I am going to make the change - I'd have to do it tomorrow.

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 9:22

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 9:20AM
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autumn.4

So I had to count it up and do the math - 17 drawers:
2 36" 3 drawer stacks
2 33" 3 drawer stacks
1 18" trash pull out
1 18" 4 drawer stack

$767 EXTRA - that is $45.12 dollars per drawer. They cannot possibly cost $45 MORE per drawer than Hettich. I have googled and looked at price comparisons in the last couple of weeks. That is crazy nuts. Even so I am still a little sad and frustrated at that mark up. :/ Rant over.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 10:02AM
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aries61

The list price to upgrade to Blum on Shiloh is $72.00 per drawer. Did you do the standard plywood drawer or the upgrade to hardwood ? That's $67.00 per drawer.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 11:12AM
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williamsem

Bottom line is you are buying good hardware that is better than what you had before and can now make a more meaningful upgrade elsewhere. I think you will be happy as soon as the next crisis hits and you don't have Blum in your head worrying about it. And once they are installed, you will be so thrilled with all the shiney new stuff it won't even cross your mind because they will be so much better than before.

The day we got our sink back after several weeks without it really put things in perspective for me. After using the bathroom sink for that long, I realized -any- of the sinks I had fretted over would have made me just as happy. I absolutely love our Orca, but the reality was any of them were so much better than what we had I would have enjoyed them just as much.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 11:17AM
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romy718

If you wake up tomorrow morning & are still stressed about it and can afford it, upgrade to the Blum. More rationalization, $75 a year for 10 years, that's $6.25/month and the stress of researching & agonizing over it is worth something. Another option, put the Blum on your two big drawer stacks & your trash pullout. You just saved $180.48.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 11:26AM
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may_flowers

I'd pay for Blum. Moving parts get the most wear and tear. The easy opening and closing of 17 drawers for the life of your kitchen is a very important upgrade. You compared them side by side and Blum "slide like butter" and fully extend.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 11:59AM
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snookums2

It is crazy nuts, so just say no. Enough is enough or it will only get worse. We pay what the market will bear.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 12:34PM
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autumn.4

aries-we are paying for plywood drawer boxes. My invoice says "framed plywood construction, full overlay, 5 pc drawer heads, plywood drawer boxes". I wonder why my numbers are off from yours. My quote also said island any species any stain and it was the same price. OT home building thread: At the time I was deciding between alder and cherry though. I am wondering if I need to ask the ? about the hickory being less.

williamsem - I am afraid you are right with the 'until the next crisis hits'. :( I hope that overall it will be so nice and functional that I don't think about it every time I open a drawer...that is my thought now. If they don't hold up I will be in agony and then it will be ONLY $767.00 and we would not have this problem, lol!

may_flowers - butter indeed. It was obviously different. If there was a blind folded pull test it would be hands down and no question. I think I keep telling myself well it's a display and they will likely be better IRL but then again the Blum was on a display also....... I wish my dh was with me and tried them both - I think he'd be on board (not that he's entirely not but I'd feel better if we both tried them, make sure I'm not being overly sensitive to it).

snookums-agreed, it is. It's obnoxious. But there is a difference in quality.

Last house - old side mount metal slides, bad install and alignment, always 'off track' especially the silverware drawer. That is why I am over-thinking this and there will be no do-over.

Still have not decided. Thank you for your thoughts and please do continue to weigh in.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 1:03PM
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snookums2

I wouldn't suggest buying junk but having the best of everything isn't really necessary, or possible for most folks. Upgrading is endless and very seductive. There is always something better out there. You can really get sucked into the abyss, just where they want us. All I can say is that is an awful lot of money for drawer glides!

What did you think of the "H" brand before doing a side by side? What made you check out the Blum? There has to be some information out there on the durability of the standard glide. Maybe also check out the cost of needing to replace them should they go in 10-15 years. What is the warranty period? I think mine are lifetime. They were standard.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 15:40

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 1:21PM
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buehl

Regardless of hardware "brand", I think full-extension is a functional need. Soft-close is a "nice to have". You said Hettich is almost full-extension - have you actually seen it? I like no longer scraping my knuckles trying to get something from the back of a drawer (shallow drawers) and not having to jockey things around to try to get a pot or pan out from the back.

If you were discussing soft-close door hardware - I would definitely say not to get it b/c it's cheap and easy to do yourself...but drawers are different.

One question - where you are building, is higher-end hardware expected? If so and you plan to sell someday, you might want to consider the higher-end...at least get full-extension.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 1:53PM
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deedles

Does anyone on here know if Ikea sells the glides separate or are they sold as part of their rationell drawers?

I think those are Blum slides, no?

Could the OP order her stuff without glides and install the ikea ones?

Or, could she at least say to the Shiloh dealer, 'look guy, I can get this many blum glides for this price. Let's bargain".

Is any of that a doable scenario?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 2:14PM
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autumn.4

KD is definitely nudging me toward H, not sure exactly why? We are using Shiloh for kitchen and master but went elsewhere for kids bath and laundry - saved $500 in doing so - not sure on drawer glides in that brand (homecrest-says full access soft touch) but they actually felt smoother than the H to me?

snookums-what kind do you have? I agree on the slippery slope but I feel like I am not being frivolous on the whole - we don't have room for frivolous. I am trying to think of durability and that the kitchen is a high use room with hubby and 2 growing boys. We are not empty nesters. My kids are not animals but they are certainly harder on things than my husband and I are, don't always pull out and push in with even pressure. I had never heard of the H brand at all and started out with Blum spec'd because of all the glowing reviews - full extension, etc etc. and didn't thing about it again until he itemized it. I can say that when I pulled the H out it felt rough - not silky. I didn't really like it and thought 'eee-wow' in a disappointed way.

The display is 4 drawers over doors with no hardware - H, then B then H then B. So I pulled H out first and then B and immediately the smoothness was there and I thought phew these are the ones we are getting. I am really thinking the display wasn't a good representation of the glide? The display is not on a level floor and we discussed that as a possible issue as well but there again the B didn't have any troubles with it. I had to push harder to get the H to grab the softclose. That I figured I would get used to once I lived with it and it would be second nature?

buehl-KD kept telling me that the display wasn't a good judge of extension because the counter top had a larger than normal overhang. He said it was an inch and not really a big deal at all. My old drawers (already moved so I can't measure) were definitely more like 2-3" of hidden space at the back. I agree - I want a nice smooth glide but soft close is really an added bonus. I'm not sure they have that as an option. Seems like H quatro or Blumotion full extension. No on doors. We didn't see that as necessary.

Not high end. Higher end subdivision around the corner but right around us only a few homes and definitely not - they are older. Granite is not the norm in our area either, maybe an island if they have one but perimeter Formica for sure. Rural smaller town.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 2:32PM
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autumn.4

deedles - cross posting. Thank you! I was too wondering if I can do full extension blumotion on the top silverware drawers as they are the ones that cause the most knuckle banging. The larger pot/pan casserole dish drawers won't have small stuff in them.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 2:38PM
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aries61

Autumn: $72.00 for blum is the list price. Your $45.12 price is discounted off list. The list pricing is taken directly off a 2012 dealer spec/price book that I found and downloaded from the internet. According to the spec book here are the wood charges:Maple - Std, Red Oak - 12% deduct, Hickory - 4% deduct, Cherry - 5% up charge, and Knotty Alder - Std.

I actually found a few dealer spec/price books on the internet.

I would ask about hickory being less, but that's me.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 2:42PM
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snookums2

I don't know what brand they are, they were standard and I did not think to question them. They are very smooth, soft close, undermounted, with ball bearings. I thought self closing cabinetry was a frivolous expense when shopping but they were standard and I am enjoying them. Quite a luxury from my old cabinetry. If I can see a name there, I'll post it.

Sometimes you're better off just getting the darn thing instead of worrying about it. Depends how much leeway you have. If you think they are actually rough, then maybe it's not a good choice for you. Maybe go see them at a different installation?

P.S. fwiw, I think I saw on another thread back in September someone else was being quoted $35 per drawer for the Blum.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 14:56

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 2:51PM
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autumn.4

aries - thank you for the info aries. I need to ask for sure. My money is my money.

snookums-if you see the brand that would be great. I agree - if they are smooth they are smooth and it's really about the name for me. But in this instance the display wasn't great (but I swear they are bearings as well). :( And I am certain the homecrest aren't blum and they are smooth.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 3:01PM
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buehl

If the display "wasn't great", then I would be a little worried. Consider the display as being what your drawers will be like in 3 or 4 years (the amount of time it would probably take you to open/close the drawers in your kitchen the same # of times a display kitchen has had in just a year or two.)

The more you talk about them, the more uneasy I am about the Hettich hardware....

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 3:08PM
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aries61

Autumn: If you don't mind me asking. What cabinets/sizes are you putting in your island?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 3:30PM
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xc60

One thing I did was only have soft close (Blum) on the kitchen drawers only. The rest of the drawers in the home were just standard. I figured that those drawers are not as used as much. Some barely ever and we never really noticed after using them that they were not soft close. In the kitchen we would of missed it.

I also did things like shaker drawer fronts in kitchen and slab drawers on the rest of home. That was a savings of almost $3500. I figured the kitchen was worth spending the money on. No one ever noticed the difference not even in our family. Lol

Just some ideas to help so you can perhaps see if there are other areas that you can save on or if the Blum guides are worth the extra money for you.

This post was edited by xc60 on Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 15:45

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 3:42PM
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autumn.4

Here is the layout, island is DW, Sink base, trash pullout and 21" 4 drawer (oops typo above - mistakenly counted it as an 18"):

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 3:46PM
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romy718

I just reread through all the posts.You clearly will be more comfortable/happier/satisfied with the Blum upgrade. You've gotten alot of good advice from people in "the know." Reading your posts, you've talked me into the upgrade. Have DH read & he'll be on board.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 4:04PM
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jellytoast

Like snookums, I didn't even think to question what kind of hardware I was getting. They are full-extension and soft-close and that was the extent of my desires and of my knowledge about hardware for that matter. I'm actually quite happy that I wasn't asked to make a decision about THAT, too.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 4:20PM
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andreak100

If it were me and there was any way I could afford it, I would go with the Blum. As I said earlier, it was all that we ever really considered since those were markedly better when we tried them over the others.

It's something that you will use every day. Their upcharge seems a little high, but if the others aren't full extension (and possibly not soft close), that does explain the difference more. To me, full extension was a must. Even "only an inch" underhang is annoying to me. Soft close was a little less of an "absolute" must, but was almost a given for us from the start.

Like I say, if it were me and if there was any way that I could squeeze it out in the budget, I would go with Blum. Every cabinet maker we talked with during our planning process said and agreed that Blum was the standard to which others had to strive to live up to, and most didn't...even if they were "good", in the end, they weren't Blum.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 4:40PM
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akshars_mom

Autumn,
I am no expert here but since you have large drawers I would go with Blum for the large drawers. You will put heavier stuff in them so better to get good hardware on them.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 6:12PM
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Brandy5

Well, I have buyer's remorse. We put everything I wanted into our kitchen except the undermounted kitchen slides. I had Blum side mounted sides on my original custom made cabinets and never had a problem with them. The cabinet maker (for whatever reason) didn't like the undermounted self-closing slides (and he used Blum) and after everything was broken down and the Blum undermounted slides were $750.00 + my husband decided that that was the one place we were not going to splurge. I decided not to fight about it. I asked about it here -- didn't take everyone's advice and now I live with Blum side mounted slides that do not work like the ones I had on my original cabinets (they would close and we never had an open drawer). The drawers stay open and don't shut very easily and my husband constantly leaves the cabinet doors open. I am constantly following him around shutting cabinet doors. I wish I had just gone with the Blum undermounts and not listened to the cabinet maker. Oh what I would give for self-closing drawers and cabinets.

I have to put self-closing mechanism on our cabinets now because I can't stand the open doors.

All I can say is, just make sure you get self-closing undermount drawer slides.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 6:29PM
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aries61

Autumn: I looked up the three cabinets in the 2012 spec book. They have 2 different trash pullouts. One is attached to the door and the other one is not. The list price for the three cabinets in std wood is $2081 or $2219 depending on what trash pullout. Based on what he was charging you for the blum, I used the same multiplier to come up with he would be charging you for the 3 cabinets which is either 1304.09 or 1390.57. 4% of these amounts is either $52.16 or $55.63. Please remember these are based on the 2012 prices, not sure if the prices went up for 2013.

If you were going with inset, Shiloh requires that you upgrade to Blum.

Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 7:57PM
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autumn.4

Aries-thank you. What doesn't make any sense to me is that inset is 'free' so why wouldn't Blum be standard on framed construction that is not inset? If you change to inset there is no extra cost and yet you get the Blum hardware?? I did ask and he said that's just how it is. It doesn't seem right to me though.

Brandy-thank you for your experience. :(. That would drive me up a wall too. Both glides are undermount.

I am going to touch base tomorrow and see once what he says about options.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:15PM
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aries61

Autumn. Inset is free, but you need to pay to upgrade the drawer slides. Shiloh is a nice cabinet, but has some oddities about it. Like paying for butt doors, hardwood drawer box and blum drawer slides which a lot of cabinet companies include.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:34PM
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susanlynn2012

I would ask your husband to call in to work that he is coming a little later and you too and both of you test the drawers to be sure. I want full extension drawers if I can get them and soft close and I would cut corners elsewhere. I hate how my current drawers and cabinets (have not yet settled on my new kitchen but I know I want quite doors and drawers) are always slamming. But that is ME. You need to set your own priorities.

For instance when I was looking for a new car, I bought a $299 Garmin in July 2011 and could not see spending the money on the built-in GPS that was $2,100. At first I was upset with myself but the total cost of the car was getting up there and I still have a mortgage to pay off. I did not upgrade the radio but I did pay for the $100 extra for the beeping in the back when I am getting too close to something (as I am very petite and I now never hit anything backing up) and the $100 extra for my heated steering wheel since my hands are always cold. I did not pay for any of the higher paint finishes and I am very happy with my white color.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 1:51AM
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autumn.4

Thank you everyone. Sent off an email but still feeling very conflicted. It's not that I need premium because I certainly do not - but I do need durability and that is what I question. I was mumble and grumble every time I opened the drawers in my last kitchen and I don't want to do that in a NEW one by my own choosing. How frustrating would that be! Dh says leave it be.... The rental kitchen by the way is so old it doesn't have drawer glides!

There are not a lot of reviews current or otherwise out there on Hettich. :/

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 7:55AM
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may_flowers

So you've brought up DH a few times. I have always felt that unless DH is in the kitchen cooking as frequently as we are, he should let us chose the tools we need. I don't know of many men who don't buy the best quality when it comes to their tools, toys, and hobbies.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 10:18AM
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live_wire_oak

I'd downgrade something else to get Blum. The moving parts are the hardest working part of your kitchen. I'd go with a thinner cabinet side, particle board, omit any glazing, do my own glass, do plain cabinet sides instead of decorative, do a less spendy hardware....... there's lots more choices in line behind where choosing Blum would be on the priority list.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 12:00PM
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autumn.4

Update:emailed KD regarding Hickory wood charge on the island (I know a bit OT) and asked about the glides, if there was any more wiggle in pricing, what options I have to upgrade only some (although I think I'd not like that every time I opened one of the others). He is going to review the order and get back to me likely tomorrow as he is busy with appointments all day today. I think this is one of those instances where I have completely over thought and should have just stuck with them as that is what was important to me to start - good full extension mechanisms. He has not yet submitted the order so I do have the opportunity to change. Who knows, maybe they will knock something off plus the hickory savings (which I think is only about $100).

lynn2006-oh I wish there was time for that! KD is 45 minutes away and DH's works on the house all day on his days off. So...not going to happen. While pulling on the drawers I did try to think what would dh think and honestly I know he'd like the smoother drawer better but not sure better enough for that cost.

may_flowers-very true and I do not dictate tool purchases but he does not by the best of the best in that department either. That said he does buy what he thinks he needs to do the job and do it well for how much use the tool will get. So if it's something we will use over and over for many projects for many years - he spends more. If it's something with little use for a couple minor projects then he spends likewise there. These will get a lot of use - and likely never be replaced! We have always lived on a budget and honestly do not spend more than about $25 bucks without discussing it with each other first.

LWO-thank you for responding- I was hoping a KD would offer some insight. I have tried to skinny up as you mention. My own glass (for less than $100), will not go high end on hardware, glazing is free. I do have beadboard on the back and sides of the island though (and there is seating there). Wonder if I should just skip that?

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 12:15PM
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live_wire_oak

You will be astounded how expensive V groove paneling is for your island. I'd so a simple veneer, order a couple of fillers, and create your own wainscoting panels for the island.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 12:49PM
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autumn.4

LWO-thank you for posting back. Is v groove beadboard? Sorry for the ignorance there. They said I couldn't afford integrated panels so I skipped that right away. My island is $2,787 with that layout I posted above (essentially a 33" sink base, 18" trash pullout, 21" 4 drawer stack)....I would need fillers because there is NO WAY I could match the stain with the glaze on my own. We thought about doing what you show above but I just left it with the beadboard thinking that wasn't much (but foolishly I never asked for a dollar value)?

Do you think I can recreate this with fillers as you show above with less cost than beadboard?

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 12:54PM
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sjhockeyfan325

Are you going to have stools at the island (where the beadboard would be)? If so, I'd forego it altogether and just get a plain veneer if that will save you money. With the stools, you just won't see much of the back of the island .

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 1:28PM
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autumn.4

Yes - stools and seating....tried searchign for back of island threads yesterday and didn't find much. It is open to the great room but we are casual people.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 1:55PM
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xc60

That's another thing we did was the veneer at the back, then added furniture base (baseboard) for $280 to spruce it up more. With stools there you'll never notice.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 2:39PM
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corgimum

Just want to add that I have Blum full-extension soft close glides. DH had very little input on our kitchen but he insisted on them along with soft close doors. There is no way you will regret choosing Blum. A year from now you will forget each individual item cost and will only regret when you didn't go with your gut feeling.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 10:06PM
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autumn.4

Corgimum-thank you. Dh did ask before the price detail "these are the good guides right"? I think once we saw it we over-analyzed it. So many costly decisions right now.

Xc60-any pics of that you could share?

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 7:11AM
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jakuvall

To judge the difference push down on the drawer gently applying pressure as you close it, simulates a load. I'm with LWO, give up something else. Hettich are used by Shenandoah/American Woodmark, your getting a slightly better cabinet. Blum makes it a real step above where it counts.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 8:16AM
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mrspete

Few things in your house get as much use as your kitchen cabinets. It's a splurge place, and I think I'd be willing to pay the extra -- you're talking about $45-ish per drawer, which isn't cheap, but those drawers will last a long time.

In contrast, if you were talking about built-ins by the fireplace or even bathroom cabinets, I'd say skimp. Those doors aren't used as constantly as kitchen cabinets.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 8:29AM
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autumn.4

Thanks Mrs. Pete. I did go lower 'grade' on those as I totally agree on low usage not necessary. Not doing self close on baths or fp built ins.

Patiently (not) waiting to hear from KD today, tap tap tap.

I am definintely willing to give up beadboard on island for long lasting functioning drawers. All drawers was actually my kitchen splurge...

We'll see what he has come up with.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 10:02AM
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kompy

Shiloh offers their pricing that way, so that people have more pricing options. But I see what you're saying. Maybe they should make the hardwood drawers and blum guides standard.....Then deduct for the plywood drawers or the hettich guides, much like they do with the hickory wood deduct.

I agree with the others....get the Blum and save elsewhere. You could always ask the KD for a discount on the drawer guides only. Tell him you might need to downgrade for budget reasons. See if he'll take $500 for the drawer guide upgrade. If you downgrade, he makes nothing on the guides at all. If he offers the discount, you get what you want for a little bit less and he will still make a few bucks on the guides. Doesn't hurt to ask.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 1:56PM
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autumn.4

kompy-thanks for weighing in. I was hoping you would since I knew you sell Shiloh so would have first hand experience with both those guides. I will certainly do that. I am waiting for him to double check my island pricing for the Hickory and I also asked what they could do on the Blum pricing. I would jump at that discount. I am going to also ask cost difference to ditch the beadboard and go with a veneered back with a baseboard trim and see what that would save as well. Might as well ask!

Do you sell mostly Blum then for Shiloh?

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 2:20PM
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kompy

Autumn, I've only had the line for little over a year now. However, almost every job got the plywood drawer box with the Blum drawer upgrade. Also, so far, every job has been INSET, so you must have the BLUM with that.

What door and finish are you getting?

Shiloh has introduced an entry level product that has a really nice finish! I've never seen a cabinet priced so low with such a beautiful finish. Not all dealers are signed up yet....but maybe you should ask your KD about it....at least for your other rooms (baths and laundry).

Click the link below to read more about it. Also, below is one of their painted door samples I have in my showroom.

Good luck,
KOMPY

Here is a link that might be useful: ASPECT by Shiloh

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 2:32PM
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autumn.4

kompy-I have lancaster door style for the perimeter in soft white and heritage door style for the island hickory with silas stain and black glaze. We went with the eclipse (frameless) in the master (lancaster with sable maple, black glaze). I was looking at aspect for the kids bath and laundry but found something even more economical so went elsewhere for those. They do have nice door styles for the aspect with several stain finishes so it was definitely in the running but very limited wood types. I agree though - very nice value.

Our floors are a distressed hickory with a darker stain.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 2:38PM
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kompy

Ooooh....love that Silas finish. Sounds really pretty!

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 2:46PM
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aries61

Kompy: Wasn't Aspect called Sequoia before?

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 3:26PM
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autumn.4

Jakuvall-missed your post, sorry! That was the weird thing, KD said it would slide better with load but Blum didn't need anything to slide better...so that made me skeptical.

Kompy-thank you. :) re inset-that is how we got started down the Shiloh path, but decided to go with full overlay instead.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 3:27PM
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susanlynn2012

Kompy, I really like this Aspen Cabinetry Door made by Shilo's manufacturer, W.W. Wood Products, Inc.! Thank you for letting us know.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 3:29PM
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autumn.4

Aries-yes. KD said name change just this fall.

Edit to say I am not sure what all changed besides name.

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 15:36

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 3:32PM
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xc60

Hi Autumn,

I can't show you mine yet as it still a couple months away before our cabinets are installed. I tried to find you a couple pictures of the veneer back with furniture base. Tried houzz but all those kitchens on there are decked out to the max, lol

Here are two I did find though, you might have to zoom in on the first to see detail.

First pic, you can see the veneered back behind the stools, they also have the vertical strips to hide the seems in the veneer. You can also see the furniture base at the bottom.

Second photo, you can see the veneer and furniture base on the side of the island.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 3:39PM
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susanlynn2012

XC60, thank you for sharing the pictures. I think both looks nice.

Autumn.4, I can't wait to see your kitchen when you are finished or even a Work-In-Progress picture as it sounds very pretty.

Aries61, thank you for letting me know that the know that the name of the Aspen Cabinetry used to be called Sequoia Cabinetry so I can do some research. I still love the inset but now I am wondering how much less this would be as I like that Aspen door and I do like Frameless Overlay. Their whites look nice also.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 4:44PM
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autumn.4

xc60-thank you. I think we definitely need to look into that, AND as a bonus it seems like less dusting as well without all of the grooves that bead board has, woot woot. ;)

lynn-it's quite a bit less. I never had it priced for the kitchen but for the boys bathroom it was a couple hundred less - neither were to be full overlay for that room. Thank you. It has taken me a while to finally make a selection, lol! We have a ways before work in progress starts but I'll be sure to post likely in the building a home forum. :) I am sure I'll be over here with more questions as well though.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 7:00PM
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annkh_nd

Autumn, it sounds like you've almost decided to go with Blum (or at least that seems to be the consensus here). I'll add my vote in favor of Blum. One of the joys of my new kitchen (3 months old) is opening and closing drawers. You nailed it when you said they are like butter!

And last week I gained even more appreciation for my new kitchen. Last week I helped my Mom move into an apartment. The galley kitchen isn't really all that bad - a surprising amount of counter space for a smallish apartment - but the cabinets are crap. Mom isn't able to crawl on her hands and knees to dig stuff out of base cabinets, and these have only a half shelf, so half of the base cabinet space is wasted for her (we only put things in the front half of the bottom, so she could reach). She now understands my obsession with drawers!

Drawers are not really a splurge, because they provide significant function and benefit for that money. I think the same goes for Blum hardware - the cost is more, of course, but the benefit is significant. You've gotten great suggestions for cutting costs on cosmetic things - spend it on function over form.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 11:35AM
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beachlily z9a

Annkh, another way to help your mom is to purchase wooden shoe racks from Lowe's. They look like shelves. With them, you can put 2 layers of "stuff" up front, doubling the items she can easily retrieve. I did that at the back of the cabinets or on the sides of the cabinet before I replaced them with drawers. Works like a charm!

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 3:43PM
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annkh_nd

Thanks for the tip, beachlily! I'll pick some up before I see her again. There are definitely a couple of cabinets where that would be useful for smaller items (luckily most of the lowers have larger things in them).

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 4:02PM
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autumn.4

annkh-I am convinced that it's a function that will be worth while, especially since I have all drawers. If they 'crap out 'early - what a waste! I am still waiting to hear from KD on costs for changing out bead board. I think I will call him today. I am glad this thread produced a tip that can help your Mom. :)

    Bookmark   December 12, 2013 at 6:47AM
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autumn.4

Follow up - resolution.

Per KD the bead board wasn't costly enough to even make a dent - he said for the Shiloh line to do a plain veneer of that size with filler would be more expensive. The bead board can be easily seamed at the groove so easier install also.

The corbels however were where he thought we could cut cost and possibly find something elsewhere or through our granite fabricator. A quick call to the fabricator and certainly - much more cost effective! In their view I could easily drop one of the corbels on the short side but will would need 3 supports across the front where the 9' span is. We have a wall built out from the cabs to shorten the overhang (4' deep island) so they can easily mount support braces there. Yay!!

So dropping the corbels (which I didn't have strong feelings toward either way, totally was a decision of function not aesthetics for me) was an easy concession.

I ended up within $1.41 of my original invoice dropping the corbels and adding the Blum - there was a ~$110.00 adjustment in my favor for the Hickory as well. I couldn't believe it.

The supports for the counter top from my fabricator will be much less than the $650ish cost from the cabinet mfg and I won't have to worry about stool and leg banging. Not sure you'd see them much with the stools there anyhow.

Thank you to all that contributed for and against the upgrade. I am feeling much better and appreciate all of your comments helping me along my way!

    Bookmark   December 12, 2013 at 2:57PM
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xc60

Autumn, that's so awesome, it's going to be a gorgeous kitchen! Yay!

    Bookmark   December 12, 2013 at 3:16PM
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romy718

Great news! I was hoping you'd find a way to get the Blum & stay in budget.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2013 at 6:00PM
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snookums2

That is awesome news! Now you can rest easy and not worry about your drawers down the road.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2013 at 7:28PM
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aries61

Autumn, Glad everything worked out. Do you think that the kd would have said anything about hickory being less if you didn't bring it up?

    Bookmark   December 12, 2013 at 10:11PM
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autumn.4

Thank you xc60, romy and snookums. I feel a sense of relief so I know I made the right decision for us.

Aries-The hickory switch came out of nowhere so I think it was an honest oversight but no I don't think he would have realized it or went back and reviewed if I hadn't said anything. Unless he caught it when he was entering the order perhaps then maybe. That said - my original quote from the fall said Island - "any wood species in any stain" but at that time we were only talking alder or maple, hickory was never in the mix. I knew cherry is always an upcharge but I didn't know about hickory. I just liked the sample better with it. So I need to THANK YOU for being an accounting wiz and in the know on Shiloh!

Moving on to lighting and counter tops now. More choices but I don't anticipate them being more challenging (at least not the lighting anyhow-keeping it simple)!

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Fri, Dec 13, 13 at 5:26

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 5:24AM
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