Reduced Depth Corner Cabinets

wobbly1905November 27, 2012

Our cabinets were delivered today. We're puzzled by the corner cabinets. They are only about 19" deep, while all other base cabinets are the standard 24" depth. Is this a common practice for corner cabinets? The lack of a rim around the super susan is also troubling.

Thanks!

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desertsteph

I don't know if making them more shallow is normal but I'd sure want them to replace the susan tray with one with a deep lip on it.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 12:16AM
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GreenDesigns

That is what some budget cabinet lines do. They don't offer full depth lazy susans, nor do they offer any choice in lazy susans. What cabinet line did you choose?

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 8:02AM
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robbcs3

I don't know what brand these are, but most manufacturers offer 3 or 4 different types of lazy susans. This is something that probably should have been discussed before the order was placed.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 8:03AM
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wobbly1905

The cabinets were made by the contractor himself. The cabinet schedule shows full depth corner cabinets.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 8:53AM
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bellsmom

I think he sized the susans the way he would have made them if they had a center pole just behind the cutout. Then he made the cabinets to fit.

That is doing things backwards. He should cut the susans to fit the cabs.

You are losing a LOT of storage space with these undersized susans and cabs. And, yes, he needs to put a low rim on the susans. But first, insist on full depth cabs and susans that are as wide as possible to fit the space.

Susans without center poles like these can be any size that fits the cabinet box.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 9:04AM
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bellsmom

Oops. Duplicated post. Thanks for the new edit function!

This post was edited by Bellsmom on Wed, Nov 28, 12 at 9:12

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 9:11AM
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wobbly1905

I'm sure he's going to resist, but we were not consulted on the change. He might be able to save the side and back panels by attaching extensions. The joints would be on the inside of the cabinets and not noticeable unless peering inside. He will have to cut new susans.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 9:27AM
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wobbly1905

The reduced depth results in about a 28% reduction in volume.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 10:15AM
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wobbly1905

Contractor says that he has worked in 5 cabinet shops and they all make the corner cabinets this way. He also mentioned that the AIA standard for commercial cabinets shows a similar method.

He's either correct or else he's a very good schmoozer.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 12:44PM
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ci_lantro

The reduced depth isn't going to make any difference as far as storage space is concerned because there is no room to increase the diameter of the lazy susan. The diameter of the circle has to be less than the shorter of the two distances from the cab sides to the wall.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 1:34PM
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wobbly1905

"The reduced depth isn't going to make any difference.."
According to this sketch, it does.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 2:05PM
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wobbly1905

The contractor said that they barely got the corner cabinets through the door.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 2:10PM
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pektel

You must have TINY doorways. I've installed probably close to 100 kitchens. I've never seen a base corner reduced depth cabinet. Except for the "barrel" style corner cabinets some budget lines use. I suppose there are circumstances that would require a reduced depth corner cabinet(clearances around corners, the way your entry is laid out, etc.), but I personally have never ran into one.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 3:03PM
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annkathryn

What is the distance from the left side of the cabinet to your back wall? That's your limiting dimension.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 3:08PM
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bellsmom

Does the susan cabinet stop short of the wall on both sides? Or does it go all the way to the wall on the right and stop short of the wall on the left?

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 3:23PM
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wobbly1905

"Does the susan cabinet stop short of the wall on both sides? Or does it go all the way to the wall on the right and stop short of the wall on the left?"

It is about 5" away from both walls.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 4:47PM
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wobbly1905

"You must have TINY doorways. I've installed probably close to 100 kitchens. I've never seen a base corner reduced depth cabinet. "

The front door is 36" wide. The patio doors are removable.
The contractor is claiming that he does this because the kitchen walls are usually out of plumb and not square.
I can see an inch or so reduction to allow for this, but not 5 inches. I think he is an excellent BS'er. However, he's charmed us with his tales of expertise, and I'm reluctant to disrupt the temporary bliss.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 4:56PM
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PeterH2

Your sketch above is wrong - you can't make the door wider in the way you have shown without changing the widths of the two adjacent cabinets. If you make the sides deeper and leave the door the same width, you will end up with a very odd-shaped lazy susan IMO.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about this, apart from getting a rim put on the susan.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 6:20PM
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bellsmom

Yes, it is true, you cannot make the cabinet door wider. BUT you can make the susan AND the cabinet 5'' larger in diameter, just as your drawing shows. It will not matter that the pie cut does not go all the way to the center. If the sides of the cabinet are the same width, the susans can still be round, and the opening shown on your original cabinet is plenty wide for access to the contents.

I am attaching a pic of a shelf in a corner WALL cabinet in 15'' deep cabs. The susan has a D shape because the cab isangled at the front. The circumstances are different--you have 24''base cabinets with a pie cut shape. You have a custom made susan and I was retrofitting standard rev-a-shelf susans.
But you are correct about the lost storage. I would weep at losing that much for no good reason.

I think the susans he plans to put in your base cabs are barely larger than the ones I put in my wall cabs!!

I would suggest you carefully diagram the corner space, accurately draw the pie-cut opening, draw the largest circle that will clear the cabs side and back, mark where the cut will go, and present it to your builder.

It WILL work.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

This post was edited by Bellsmom on Thu, Nov 29, 12 at 8:02

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 6:50PM
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robbcs3

I could be wrong but what does the AIA have to do with kitchen cabinet specifications? I would imagine the NKBA or KCMA would handle this.

Even if the size of this cabinet were no concern, everything is going to fly off that shelf when you spin it because there is nothing to hold the items in place.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2012 at 7:45AM
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ci_lantro

Wobbly--yes, the 8 sq ft cabinet you drew has more storage space. The problem is that cabinet won't fit in your kitchen.

The diameter of your susan is limited by the distance from the left drawer bank cabinet to a point approx. 22'' (I'm guessing) from the window wall.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2012 at 9:02AM
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bellsmom

ci lantro
In a later message Wobbly said the cabinet stood about 5'' from both walls, so I am assuming the opening is square.

Wobbly--
Please let us know the outcome of this. Hope he redoes it for you.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2012 at 1:14PM
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wobbly1905

We caved.

After asking the same question on a woodworker site, I've come to the conclusion that there was no intentional attempt to pull one over on us. This was this contractor's standard method.

Despite some very rocky points along the way, the contractor is still trying to keep us happy. I'm pretty sure that he would have redone the corner cabinets if we had insisted. Since the project is into its 8th week, we didn't want to set it back further. On the plus side, he's tried to keep project costs down. Unfortunately, he seems to have taken on too many jobs. Some of his new work is for big companies, and he wants to establish his reputation and keep his crew busy. This effort to economize was counterproductive in some cases. The project is fixed price for the cabinets and tile flooring. Everything else has a very reasonable labor charge, and materials are at his cost. In theory, this is a super bargain. Unfortunately, although his crew are well meaning and honest, they need close supervision to be productive. That supervision was lacking due to over-commitment. Another example is that he provided an electrician who worked at low rates. Unfortunately, this fellow, while being one of the hardest workers I've seen, and quick, too, couldn't remember the design intent. He ended up working a whole day extra and didn't bill for it. Another case of lack of supervision.

Despite these hassles, the contractor has collaborated in the design and made suggestions which improved the function and appearance of the kitchen. The workmanship appears to be excellent. We sought a contractor would would give us excellent quality at a moderate price. We seem to be getting it. The trade off has been the schedule.

I should also mention that the contractor has a great personality, and it's been very enjoyable getting to know him.

I'll post some pictures in a week or so. The change from our old dark kitchen is pretty exciting.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2012 at 11:52AM
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bellsmom

Please consider requesting (requiring!) that he put rims on the susans. Either that, or store only large items there.

These rimless susans could be a real problem for you--and an unsolvable problem once the countertop is on.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2012 at 2:08PM
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wobbly1905

The contractor is going to put something on the susans to keep
stuff from coming off. The solution shown in the photo looks a bit industrial for my wife. One of my ideas it to cut a metal cooling rack in two along the longer dimension. Drill holes near the platter edge to accept the cut wire ends. Bend the rack half to follow the platter edge and insert it into the holes. It might take 5 or 6 rack halves to go around the platter edge, These racks are 2 for $1 at the Dollar Tree.
Thicker gauge racks might be better, though.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cooling Rack (grid)

    Bookmark   December 1, 2012 at 2:44PM
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