Seam on Frosty Carrina HELP

murrywoodsNovember 14, 2013

Just had Frosty Carrina installed this afternoon. This is the seam. I think it is awful. If you have Caesarstone installed can you send a picture so I can show installer how it is suppose to look. Thanks.

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blackchamois

Is the crevice as deep toward the back as it looks toward the edge? I would not be happy with that seam.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 12:43AM
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xc60

I agree, I've seen almost invisible seams on CS. I hope more chime in with solutions. All the best!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 12:50AM
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murrywoods

Thanks BlackChamois and xc60. I will see what happens today when I talk to them.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 7:58AM
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may_flowers

The seam on my light colored quartz probably wouldn't even show in a photo. The edges should also be free of tiny chips, which I think I see in yours.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 10:22AM
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Linelle

My seam is at the sink, so there isn't much of it. It's very well done. Every 6 months or so I hit it with a black sharpie and it really disappears. I didn't like the idea of a seam at my sink, smack dab in the middle of everything, but I'm convinced it is the best solution.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 11:27AM
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deedles

Do over on the seam for sure.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 11:34AM
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murrywoods

Talked to fabricator this morning. He said he can't do the seam over ???? He said they got it as close as they could??? Will come and fill and buff. I think no no no. I really didn't respond to him. What do I tell him?

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 12:23PM
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peony4

If it makes you feel any better, I have a terribly visible seam in my soapstone--it's enhanced by clear epoxy. (Yes... I assumed black was the obvious choice that would be used, but apparently not. Never assume anything.) Every day I look at it and think, "How could they have thought this was OK?" It's to the point that I would never recommend this company to anyone.

I wish I had spoken up at the time and demanded it be fixed. I recommend that you do so. Now is the time.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 2:02PM
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MarinaGal

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Here is the seam in my Caesarstone. It was hard for me to get a photo of it so you could see it. I don't understand why he is saying that is the best he could do. You could ask him why he can't get a tight seam when other fabricators can - your seam would not be acceptable to me!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 2:05PM
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Trebruchet

The difference between 3labs and MarinaGals seams is that MarinaGals edges were prepared with a Seam Phantom or a CNC machine. 3labs were not and look like undressed saw cuts.

The tops must be pulled and have the Seam Phantom run on each edge which can be performed on site.

Furthermore, your seam does not meet the manufacturer's installation standards:

D. Joints
1. Joints between adjacent pieces of quartz surfacing
a. Joints shall be flush, tight fitting, level, and neat.
b. Securely join with stone adhesive.
c. Fill joints level with quartz surfacing.
d. Clamp or brace quartz surfacing in position until adhesive sets.
⢠Use a state-of-the-art seam setter tool to make seams as narrow and inconspicuous as possible. Seams should not be more than 1âÂÂ16â wide.
⢠All seam surfaces should be smooth and free of debris.
⢠CaesarStone requires the use of colored glue for all seams. This can be accomplished by using one of the premixed Integra colors available or by manually tinting the glue of your choice.
⢠Grooves should be created in surfaces to be joined to allow space for glue. Extra glue should be placed at all corners and around joints. Note in Pictures A and B.
⢠Seam locations should be carefully planned to minimize visibility.
⢠CaesarStone prohibits the surface polishing of seams.
⢠Never install mechanical fasteners (screws, nails, etc.) into CaesarStone.

Note that Caesarstone specifically prohibits surface polishing.

Here is a link that might be useful: Specifications

This post was edited by Trebruchet on Fri, Nov 15, 13 at 15:31

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 3:07PM
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murrywoods

Trebuchet thank you so much. This is just what I need to go back to owner with

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 4:27PM
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blackchamois

Good luck, 3labs! Let us know how it goes!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 8:55PM
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murrywoods

Thank you everyone. I can't tell you how grateful I am for all the help. Owner sent the installers over this afternoon. My husband was there. I talked to the owner on the phone and said I didn't see how filling and buffing it was going to work and left it at that. After over 2 hours and doing very little to correct the seam they told my husband they will be back on Monday. I am going to email the owner what Trebruchet wrote about seam does not meet the manufacturer's installation standards and demand he either recut the seams on site or take it all back and redo. I am also going to call CS corporate office on Monday. Thank god for weekends........ I have a few days to not have to think about it. Again thank you.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 9:09PM
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Trebruchet

3labs:

My concern is what they did for 2 hours and what they mean by "buff".

If buffing meant putting diamonds and/or polishes on the surface of Caeserstone, they have now violated the manufacturer's installation instructions.

The problem comes when otherwise good granite techs try to top polish engineered stone. Estone is a completely different animal. If polished like granite, it will be destroyed in short order. The problem isn't getting the seam to be flush and polished up, it's getting the flush and polished seam to match the other factory finish that's very difficult. This is probably why it isn't a recommended procedure and why Dupont (Zodiaq) is still working on approving a process.

This post was edited by Trebruchet on Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 7:45

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 7:35AM
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Trebruchet

This is what I'm talking about. This is an attempt to top polish Silestone that has failed miserably. Notice how bright the lights are at each end and how the reflection is ruined in the middle. This is because the technician couldn't get the seam area he worked on to match the factory finish.

(I'm meeting with the fabricator on behalf of the homeowner on this job next week.)

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 7:44AM
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murrywoods

Thanks Trebruchet. They were working on correcting this. Sorry it is side ways. It is the back where the stove slides in. They did not measure correctly the day before where the stove slides in SCREAM. Then they were trying to fill the seam. They did not buff anything on Friday. And I don't know what it means. My husband said what they were using for fill color did not match. Before they left they told him they needed to clean out the seam on Monday
Next steps???? Do I let owner attempt to fix the seam and then tell him its not acceptable or do I tell him now that he needs to take the counter tops off and install new ones??? I have given him 50%. Should I call CeaserStone on Monday? Will they do anything to make sure this is corrected?

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 8:39AM
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may_flowers

Read your Caesarstone warranty:

This warranty does not cover seam appearance or seam performance, adhesives, caulk or other accessory items.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 9:02AM
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murrywoods

Right but don't they care that their authorized dealers are not installing there product correctly

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 10:38AM
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Trebruchet

3labs:

I would allow a different standard for seams behind a range than those completely exposed front to back. With the piece properly sized and with the range installed, the range seams should be more inconspicuous.

I wouldn't call Ceaserstone just yet. Let your fabricator know you are unhappy with the seam(s) and give him every chance to make them right. Let him know that you must be satisfied for him to see the other 50%. He hasn't made any money yet, so he has a business interest satisfying you.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 11:36AM
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Trebruchet

3labs:

Place a 4' level over the seam. There should be no gaps underneath and the tops should be level within 1/16" over 10'. Place the level front to back as well.

An out-of-level countertop is one of the causes of a poor seam. When the tops are not in plane and the seam edges are cut square, the seam cannot be pulled together tightly because the top or bottom edge of the seam will touch first.

Plus, this is an indicator of the level of sophistication of your fabricator. He should know this.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 12:12PM
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murrywoods

Sending hubby over to the house ASAP to check. Again much thanks.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 12:46PM
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murrywoods

Here is the seam after they finished last night

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 12:57PM
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may_flowers

It doesn't look much better in that photo. Are you happy with it?

Tre mentioned using a Seam Phantom or a CNC to cut the seam. That's how mine was done and the seam is the width of a hair with no messy edge. How was yours cut? CNC machines cost a lot of money that a smaller shop might not be able to afford. I think I saw oldryder post that they are $300,000.

This post was edited by may_flowers on Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 14:11

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 2:09PM
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murrywoods

No not happy at all. It doesn't look any better. Not sure how he cut the seam. I have plenty of questions for him on Monday.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 2:44PM
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Trebruchet

3labs:

In all fairness, it is very difficult to judge seams by photograph, however, you should take some acetone to the black stuff that's now on the edge. Let's hope it comes right off. If it doesn't or if it feels different than the rest of the edge, they may have "burned" the resin in the estone. This is really not good if they have.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 6:23PM
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a2gemini

I have Cambria and can barely feel or see the seams

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 7:23PM
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murrywoods

UPDATE Owner came this morning to look at counter top. He said yes the seam is incorrect. He will be coming back tomorrow with two different workers then last week. Will attempt to fix on site and if they can't will take the counter top back to shop. THANK YOU so much. Will keep you posted
My husband had check to see if it was level and it wasn't.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2013 at 10:03AM
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murrywoods

Good news. Owner and 2 other installers came this morning. After they heated up the seam to remove the adhesive the one side cracked. They took both pieces off and back to shop. Got a follow-up call. They are going to order two new slabs. He also said when he looked at the edges they had not been cut correctly. Thanks for all your help. Will update with photos of new counter top AND seam

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 5:22PM
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romy718

Great news. Sorry you're going through it but you'll have beautiful countertops in the end. Nice to hear that the owner is taking responsibility and replacing them.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 6:29PM
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Trebruchet

3labs:

I have reservations about the competency of your fabricator. Estone is very heat sensitive and he should have known that. I'll bet lacquer thinner would have soaked that seam out, but I would test it first. I've soaked bowls off with it.

He's really taking a pounding on your job now. He's not only lost all the time, he's lost the material too. Hopefully his mom needs a new vanity for Christmas. Beware.

This post was edited by Trebruchet on Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 20:44

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 9:10PM
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murrywoods

Trebruchet, thanks for the laugh. I am very very concerned about their competency. Their time on Thursday to install, 2 hours the following day. Monday to come and look at it. Today owner and 2 different installers. And 2 more slabs they have to order. I am in NY, my husband is at the house we are building in SC. I just called him to tell me again what they did this morning. You should be sitting for this...... they took a blow torch to heat up the steam. And then a loud pop when the counter top cracked.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 9:37PM
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Trebruchet

3labs:

I'd cut these guys loose. Let them refund your money, save the two sheets, and take their a$$-whuppin' now.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 8:47PM
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juliebunnell

Do you have any finished pictures of your frosty carrina? Curious as I tried to order in chicago land area and it's backordered 3 months!

    Bookmark   December 27, 2013 at 3:19PM
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murrywoods

Just finished last week. This is a close up

    Bookmark   December 27, 2013 at 3:51PM
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murrywoods

And this is from just a little distance. I am happy with it. It was a process. But they did come and re do. And took a little off the price. Choose wisely. I wish I had asked for pictures of the light CS they had installed. They said the light color is very very hard to do???????

    Bookmark   December 27, 2013 at 3:54PM
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Trebruchet

That looks pretty good, especially considering that color and movement.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2013 at 6:59PM
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