Kitchen help needed!

fav.auntx2November 7, 2012

Ok you wonderful people! I have lurked on here for quite a time, and have been amazed at how everyone helpful is and all the fantastic information given. So here goes my virgin post ;)

Kitchen remodel. Dear god help. I have so many ideas and so little sanity to process any of them! I am in desperate need of another set of eyes and some solid advice on this thing.

My decorating style seems to have taken a traditional approach throughout this house. I love white cabinets and white subway tile. I have the stainless steel appliances. The floors will be a dark wood. (yes I know about the cleaning:) ) The ridiculous bar area has been torn out. Where the wall oven/MW is will become a range and OTR MW to free up some counter space. An island will be added to the now empty space between the wall of windows and kitchen. This will remain even with the cabinets on the wall with the sink to allow the walkway to flow freely.

So. I suppose my question is what the heehaw should I do with this! I am uncertain what route I should take with the cabinets. I could have new doors made but cannot decide what kind I should do. My current (everchanging) decision is to keep the doors, paint them white, have doors made to match on the sections that will need slight modifications and spiff them up a bit with some crown and such. The doors are so well made that I hate to throw them out, and I really don't mind the style.

I have no idea what to do about the sink. ATM I am considering tiling up to level with the top cabinets. I have also considered some type of shelving, but I really love the openness without anything there. In my head I see a picture or something of the sort hanging there, changing frequently with my mood lol!

Crossing my fingers these pics are sized and all that jazz! Don't have the greatest images to depict this, I'm afraid.

Pic of doors. also proudly shows prior color ha ha!!

Windows on rightt, island will go on the left, even with the cabs you see the end of. Laundry room, master bed, and garage is here. (disclaimer - I work a lot, ignore those clothes!!)

Ok, this is the sink side of the kitchen. I felt immensely better when I tore that valance out!

Other side of kitchen. Hideoderous bar included free. The island would be directly in front of/under the photographer in this shot. Range and MW will be in oven/MW current slot.

This view shows how the kitchen opens to to living room. Yes, that's a pink living room :)

The cabinet modifications and island building will begin Monday morning. Any and all suggestions/comments is so greatly appreciated

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Are you tearing this apart with no plan? Planning is the most important part. Island? I don't see room for an island. What are you trying to accomplish?

    Bookmark   November 7, 2012 at 10:30PM
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The goal is basically a face lift. The island will be small, granted, but the kitchen is small. The pics I have available to me ATM are not very representative of the space I'm afraid. I am looking for advice on the cabinets and the sink area. The plan was described in the post. A little rearranging and some painting. I was hoping someone would have an idea that I hadn't considered yet.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2012 at 10:53PM
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Sophie Wheeler

It will be dificult to give advice without a measured drawing of the space. Measurements are the lifblood of any kitchen redo for space planning purposes. Frankly, you are proposing to "remake" so much here that ripping all of it out would probably give you a much more functional result.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2012 at 9:17AM
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I agree we need a drawing of the space. Check out the "Layout Help" section of the link posted below.

Here is a link that might be useful: New to Kitchens? Scroll down for directions for layout advice

    Bookmark   November 8, 2012 at 12:19PM
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the dark chocolate walls will work with the oak cabs for whatever reason you picked that color[drama?]... you can get glass doors for the wall cabs around sink/fridge. I'd replace the base cabs around fridge and sink and get new drawers/smaller sink/good faucet and counter[probably whitish because of white backsplash]. One can't tell what else you have going-all you asked about is sink/fridge area,and I gather you don't want huge spendy options...maybe just a few glass doors-by the fridge and leave the cabs open to right of sink and put in your nice dishes/bowls/glassware/etc. New base cabs will be some expenditure,but is needed....that's why a plan will help you....give yourself a plan even if you accomplish it gradually....or at least it will allow a better assessment with goals...Just saying"facelift" can be a waste/or might work-but you have to assess.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2012 at 12:43PM
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Xpost from smaller homes
This link might give you ideas, it doesn't contain a lot of "how-to" information though...

Here is a link that might be useful: bright kitchen

    Bookmark   November 8, 2012 at 12:50PM
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Thank you everyone for your input! I think I am my own worse enemy here and making this much harder than it needs to be. It's quite possible I have been viewing this project from a wrong angle.

Hollysprings, I have a layout for you! (please pardon the unpolished edges on it)And your vote to tear everything out just adds to the list of people telling me to do just that!

Angie_DIY, your link was so useful! I suppose I missed that or overlooked it in my overview of the website earlier.

Herbflavor, great suggestions. I am fond of open shelving and glass doors. Haven't really considered them for my space tho (what was I thinking!) The color was left over from a project, and I just thought what the heck! put it up and I love it. Dramatic, yes, but just perfect enough. The color is subject to change, however. your 'facelif't comment seemed to jolt me to reality. This entire time I have been worried that I am putting 'lipstick on a pig' and really, that's not the theme I want to run with!! So thank you :)

EATREALFOOD, awesome link. See, its sites like that getting my inner DIY diva all coming out! Those doors are almost identical to my current ones also. So many great visuals, and some the same as herbflavor suggested.

This is the current layout, aside from the island, which has not been built yet.
I did my best to depict to scale, but maybe there are other dimensions needed?

All the base cabinets are 2 foot, and uppers are 1 foot. all the cabinetry will be custom made, so I suppose the floor plan isn't just set in stone.

With that being said, I am avoiding tearing out walls and moving the sink for plumbing purposes.

I am considering switching the range with the fridge. Does anyone have any suggestions if this would help?

Immense gratification for any input!

    Bookmark   November 8, 2012 at 9:07PM
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The only decisions I have made is white cabinets and subway tile BS.
Also, dark wood floors throughout the house.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2012 at 10:21PM
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How wide is the range? 30"?

How wide is the DR doorway?

I'm asking b/c no room is perfectly square; just b/c the bottom wall is 11'6" does not mean the top wall is. It's always better to measure everything and make no assumptions - even 2 or 3 inches can make a difference in what you can do!

Cabinets, Island depth/width, & Aisle have to also include the 1.5" or so of counter overhang in front of and on the sides of the cabinets.

The 32" aisle w/the DW partially in that aisle, be sure you can open the DW in that narrow an aisle! 36" would be far better! BTW...Does it include the 1.5" counter overhang on the island and over the DW? If not, your 32" aisle is really 29"!

Island only have room for two seats, not three. Each seat needs 24" linear space, cannot "share" leg room in a corner, and should have at least 15" of clear knee/leg space (i.e., overhang). Unless your cabinets are going to be 14" deep, you will not have a deep enough island for seating, especially with the table space right there. Do you plan a table "below" the island? If not, I would consider turning the island 90 degrees and utilizing that space below. You have a DR close by, do you really need three places for seating so close together? island with seating and standard depth cabinets (24"):

1.5" of counter overhang + 24" deep cabinets + 1" decorative door/finished end panel + 15" overhang = 41.5" deep

Your island is only 30" your cabinets would have to be 13.5" deep, if you reduced your overhang to 12", then 16.5". [Note, I do not recommend reducing the overhang as less than 15" is not comfortable unless you have very short legs!]
30" - 1.5" - 15" = 13.5"

Do you have a basement under the kitchen? If so, it's pretty easy and inexpensive to move plumbing. If you're on a slab, then it can be costly.

It sounds like you're pretty set with the layout...if you're interested in other possibilities, let us/me know and I will see what I can do based on your answers above and how flexible you are....

Regardless of your decision, good luck!

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 1:35PM
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Buehl, u are fantastic :)

The range is 30". DR doorway is 32". The distance indicated between the proposed island is from overhang to overhang. I've set a box and things, a really crude mockup, there for a couple weeks and it seems ok. The dishwasher door should open. I did think to check that.

I will not have a table "below" the island. The island is the best way I can think to incorporate counter space within the kitchen. My dimensions may need help tho. Below the island will most likely have a chair and small table. That walkway carries traffic between the garage, laundry room, and master bedroom so I do not want to block it much.

I was allowing for a 12" overhang for island seating based on internet research. U suggest 15" which seems more reasonable. I measured and mocked up your suggested 41". Seems huge compared to my prior one! But seems feasible. Thank u for calling to my attention the additional inches and such that come from panels. I remembered to allow it in other places but not this one!!

What about island length? Any suggestions?

Thank u thank u so very much!!! This is helping me figure it out and calming me about the entire project immensely.

Also, I have decided to switch the fridge and range. So that means more cabinet modifications and new pretty much everything! Yay! Lol sometimes you just have to say it out loud to make sense of it all. Thanks again to everyone that has taken time to help me on this!

Any suggestions are still greatly appreciated!

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 2:35PM
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Forgot to address your question about switching the range & refrigerator...if there's room, I'd much rather make the switch. However, there's not a lot of room on that other wall...but I really don't like the range where it is either! Let's see if it will work:

6'6" = 78"

36" corner cabinet
30" range

78" - 30" - 36" = 66"
78" - 66" - 1.5" counter overhang = 10.5" cabinet space

If, instead, you get a 33"x36" corner susan cabinet, you gain 3" for 13.5" and that means a 12" cabinet to the left of the range (far better than 9", although 18" to 24" is better...)

The problem, though is your Prep Zone and the prep's really tight. IF you would be willing to move the cabinet to the right of the DW to the other side of the sink, you would have a great prep space and a very good workflow! But, that means moving plumbing that 24" or so...but it would be so much more functional!

BTW...whatever you do with the refrigerator, Either get a full-depth cabinet to go over the refrigerator or pull a shallow cabinet forward to make it look like it's full-depth
If the refrigerator is not flanked by tall, full-depth cabinets on both sides, add finished end panels on either side of the refrigerator as deep as the refrigerator carcass/box (no deeper)

These two things will make the refrigerator look built-in and will add a high-end look.

Oh, and plan for at least a 36" wide x 72" high refrigerator opening, regardless of the size of your current refrigerator (unless it's wider or taller!). Refrigerators seem to be standardizing on 36"W x 72"h, so plan for that new refrigerator a few years down the road if you're not getting a new one now! If needed, use removable filler to fill in the "extra" space.

Like this:

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 2:45PM
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On the island I originally planned for a shorter island with a seat on the end by the LR and two on the bottom. That's where the 5' length came from. The cabinets underneath would simply be a bit shorter to allow for leg room, no sharing.

The issue with the island is the wall with the range, currently. It gets a bit tight when the island gets longer lol! For compensation I had thought of having a cabinet/side panel there at an angle that would be functional and allow for broom/mop etc storage. (Currently there is no storage for those in my home! No linen closet either!)

The dining room doorway will need moved 2-3, preferably 3" toward the sink wall if the fridge goes over there. So the range gets schooched a bit closer to the sink! Problems everywhere ;) !

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 3:04PM
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Hmmm....your measurements don't add up, even accounting for walls not being square by an inch or two. According to your drawing:

Left wall:
6'9" + 8'8" + 3'
81" + 104" + 36" = 221"

Right wall:
10'10.5" + 4' + 3' (I assume, although it looks shorter)
130.5" + 48" + 36" = 214.5"

Left wall - Right wall
221" + 214.5" = 6.5"

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 3:08PM
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Also I do not want the fridge against the dining room wall by the doorway. Is that silly to not want it? I would rather have a slender cabinet by the doorway then the fridge.

Oh and where would u have the sink if u moved the dishwasher and cabinet? I would like it in the island, but ain't gonna happen!!!

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 3:08PM
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Not at all! How deep is your refrigerator? Would you consider getting a new one that's counter-depth?

I'm working on a layout right now...

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 3:17PM
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Small right wall is actually 32". Measured full length of both right and left sides both were 210". Lol that help?

Fridge is 31" from back farthest protuberance (spelling?) to front of doors. Handles not included. Wall to left of DR doorway is 27" from sheetrock to opening

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 3:34PM
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Small right wall is actually 32". Measured full length of both right and left sides both were 210". Lol that help?

Fridge is 31" from back farthest protuberance (spelling?) to front of doors. Handles not included. Wall to left of DR doorway is 27" from sheetrock to opening

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 5:33PM
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Small right wall is actually 32". Measured full length of both right and left sides both were 210". Lol that help?

Fridge is 31" from back farthest protuberance (spelling?) to front of doors. Handles not included. Wall to left of DR doorway is 27" from sheetrock to opening

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 5:36PM
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Your kitchen really is too narrow to handle an island plus cabinets on both sides of the kitchens, let alone an island with seating. If you fiddle with the placement of the island, you can shoehorn one in...but then it blocks the path b/w the garage and LR.

Here is something you can do...

Quickly (I have to get going)...

It gives you a very nice workflow in the kitchen proper...including a nice stretch of counterspace right where you need it most - b/w the range and sink. The basic workflow in the kitchen is:
Refrigerator/Pantry --> Prep Zone & Sink --> Cooking Zone & Range

Here it is with the primary work zones:

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 7:30PM
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Buehl, thank u so much! Invaluable help! I think we finally decided on a layout that fits my needs and constraints. Your help and kindness is so appreciated, as well as all others posting here!

    Bookmark   November 10, 2012 at 11:28PM
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